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Messages - abdullah

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46
1.No I am not claiming Zeus exists. The problem is you think I have to answer your objections. No you're not that important. I could not care less about your beliefs and I could not care less about your silly objections.
2.I ask you to search up the word "darwinist" in your google web browser and see if it comes up as a word or not.
3a.The only reason I believe in Islam is because of logic and science, by the way the Qur'an commands us to think and use logic
  b.The fact that it is a 1400 year old book actually increases my faith.
  c.I am not denying science, the only ones that are denying science are atheists. When I tell you about irreducible complexity and the second law of thermodynamics and how they are irreconcilable with evolution you just ignore the arguments as if they don't exist.
  d. Science tells you that the chances of the universe being able to support life are too small for it to have happened by chance much smaller than 1/10^135.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quotes of interest
« on: October 05, 2013, 11:16:46 AM »
Mr. Canadian Atheist I am going to nicely ask you to stop posting about christianity. We are not Christians and we honestly don't care about christianity.

48
Did you really just bring us links of pseudoscience and expect us to go through them?
Even if the early earth could produce organic materials necessary for life, It is still not possible for the molecules to rearrange themselves and produce RNA, let alone a fully functional cell that is able to convert energy, reproduce itself,etc.,etc.

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Quote from: abdullah on July 22, 2013, 02:40:08 am
Alright you claim god doesn't exist prove it
Also the fact that religion is an "opium to the masses" doesn't negate gods existence rather it supports gods existence

You claim that Zeus doesn't exist prove it.

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Atheism killed numbers more than what all religions killed through history

Hitler was a Roman Catholic.

1.When did I ever claim Zeus doesn't exist?

2.Hitler was also a darwinist

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: The rationalized
« on: October 03, 2013, 12:58:01 PM »
assalamulaykum he claims that the author of the Qur'an thought the sky is a physical roof over the earth

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: The rationalized
« on: October 02, 2013, 10:03:25 PM »
Assalamualaykum
I found something which might prove these ayat are metaphorical. In surah 81 ayah 1 it says when the sun is covered up, but the word that it uses for covering up is kwrt which is only used for wrapping around round things. So how can the heavens be a canopy if the Quran says the sun is round.
Mr. Canadian Atheist I appreciate your snide remarks, but what I meant was if we took a literal interpreation of these ayat it would contradict other ayat.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: The rationalized
« on: October 02, 2013, 05:42:28 PM »
Assalamulaykum bro,
I opened this thread to disprove all of his claims of errors in the Qur'an. Can you help me prove that the ayahs in the Quran that state the heavens are a canopy are metaphorical and not literal.

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Quote from: abdullah on Today at 12:12:33 pm
3.You still don't understand my argument, you haven't even dealt with my second law of thermodynamics argument.
7.No, im not refuting natural selection, i'm refuting Darwinian evolution via natural selection

Brother, I hate to intervene, but the second law of thermodynamics applies to a closed system. Life is not a closed system it is an open system as the sun provides the energy for life processes to occur. This is a very basic explanation, if you are interested please look it up. Knowledge is power and we should pursue knowledge with a passion. Don't show ignorance on science and then use that ignorance to attack science.

Lets take this from a logical perspective, If I build a house: I create order instead of entropy. Does that mean I couldn't do it because I contradicted the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

Stop trying to deny Allah's method of creation, a method which is both mentioned in the Quran and explained by science. Personally, I feel this is rather insulting to your creator. I guess not even evidence can convince the unwilling.
1.Thank you for proving my point, did you read my previous post I said there are only two processes in the universe that are known to cause low entropy. Mind guided processes and physical laws( gravity, quantom mechanics, etc.,etc..) Darwinian Evolution doesn't fall under any of the two categories. Natural selection is not a mind guided process and it is not a natural law.

2.DO NOT try to force your interpretation of the Qur'an on me, I do not do it to you and I hope you can do the same for me.

3. The only thing I'm refuting is Darwinian Evolution, not God guided evolution. I have no stance on god guided evolution

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You believe he's eternal. You believing something won't make it true, unfortunately. You need to provide proof of that claim. If you can't, it's false. For example, I can say that Zeus created the Earth without proof too.


All of you guys are using ancient arguments from Harun Yahya that were refuted centuries ago. We found other transitional fossils later. Scientists only did this for fame and wealth. Genetic fallacy.


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I think the whole world facepalmed to this ? For the thousand time : Allah isn't created ! He is the creator ! The creator can't be created !

Circular reasoning.

False premise: The universe must have a creator
Jumping to conclusions: Therefore the creator is Allah
Circular reasoning: Allah doesn't need a creator, because I said so!


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Come at us , bro .

Few examples. Allah telling Moses' followers to kill themselves (2:54), delicious cuisine magically falls from the sky (5:115), a staff turns into a serpent (7:107), Jonah gets swallowed by a fish and prays while inside (37:142), there are only seven heavenly bodies (2:29), etc etc

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. They're the only group that doesn't agree on anything at all

Yes, individual ideas and being able to think for yourself is a wonderful thing, wouldn't you agree?

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Atheism is a demonstration of emotional issues

Emotional issues like how Allah destroyed an entire city because they were gay? Or emotional issues like how Allah once drowned an entire city because they were not Muslims? Or emotional issues like "worship me man, I love you, too bad you have to burn in hell if you don't"

""I will become angry upon the insulting and degrading of my pious slaves, like how a lion becomes furious when its cubs are harassed." "

An all knowing deity can't be angry. That's illogical. Anger is a result of surprise, for example, if you're my loyal servant and one day you betray me, I would be angry. But if I already know you're gonna betray me, I'm not gonna get angry.


1. What kind of proof are you asking for? I can philosophically prove it to you. If you are unwilling to even understand islam I see no point in conversing with you.

2.Agreed. Harun Yahya is a fraud.

3. Same as point 1

4.The majority of your points are miracles. Which I can neither prove or disprove, unless I show you the Qur'an is from God. Seven heavenly bodies? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and  assume you misread the ayah.

5.The rest of your points are opinions and I see no point of even conversing with you on these matters.

54
I was going to refrain from continuing our conversation, but i feel I must refute the ignorance in your post.

1.Are you changing positions first you said the burden of proof lies on the person making the claim, then when I showed that you made the claim first, then you went and said that the burden of proof lies on me because I am a theist. No, the burden of proof lies on you since you made the claim. Furthermore, The presumption of atheism is dead.

2. This statement needs no proof. God by definition is eternal this is basic theistic philososphy. If we were to go with your logic we would have an infinite regress of events.

3.You still don't understand my argument, you haven't even dealt with my second law of thermodynamics argument.

4.No, I said that it is impossible for evolution to have created irreducibly complex organs. Again, we are talking about information we already KNOW, not information we don't know.

5. all of these were lab experiments, futhermore they have never succesfully recreated these experiments in nature.

6.I don't think you know what agnosticism i, an agnostic is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God.

7.No, im not refuting natural selection, i'm refuting Darwinian evolution via natural selection

55
At this point I see no point of carrying on our discussion good bye sir

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"No I was asking for you for proof that Adam and Eve(peace be upon them both) did not exist. Just because earlier civilization knew of them doesn't mean they didn't exist"
The burden of proof lies on YOU. You made the claim that they existed, you bring forth the proof. For example, can you prove the invisible pink unicorn does not exist?

"Don't put words into our mouths we never claimed that god came out of nothing"
Really? Then who created God?

"There are two, and only two, kinds of processes known to create low entropy"
Are you really gonna ignore the Sun?

"This law only applies to the natural and not the supernatural."
That is a fundamental law of the universe. Our universe.

"In organisms we find organelles of a cell and organs that if you were to take one part away from the organelle/ organ it would render the whole organelle/ organ useless. Therefore the organelle/ organ could not have developed slowly. It  must have appeared in the organism complete in order for it to work. And the chances of that happening via mutation is beyond astronomical."

God of the gaps fallacy.

Have you heard of Miller's experiment? There is plenty of evidence, you need to start reading the other side too!

No one claimed amino acids formed 'spontaneously'.

By the way, if you apply all this logic to your own Quran, then it doesn't have a leg to stand on.

What's even more odd is that earlier there was a Muslim on here claiming that there was evolution in the Quran. Yet here you are, disagreeing. Why didn't Allah make it clear: Did evolution happen?
Has the Quran contradicted itself?

As for your rather ancient argument on the Cambrian era:
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC300.html

1. Lets see who made the claim first in order to see who the burden of proof lies on?
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The Quran also contains this myth
you wrote this in reference to creation of Adam and Eve

2. Do you not understand basic english, God is eternal he has no beginning and he has no end

3. Sun? You are employing circular reasoning, "evolution is true just because it is and the sun did it." Lulz and since when did the sun become a process?

4. Yes, yes it is. And who might you say created the universe? OUR UNIVERSE?

5. I don't think you understand what the god of the gaps fallacy is. God of the gaps is a type of theological perspective in which gaps in scientific knowledge are taken to be evidence or proof of God's existence.
Irreducible complexity is not god of the gaps because it is using KNOWN scientific facts to show intelligent design.

6 Yes, actually I have, and if you actually you studied it you would have known that the materials he used for his early earth where in fact completely different than what geologists think the materials of the early earth were.

7. Read up on Darwin's Doubt and see how the darwinists are scrambling to refute his book.

8. I don't believe the Qur'an supports nor denies evolution, furthermore the only thing I am refuting is Darwinian evolution(random mutations, natural selection, etc.,etc.). I have no stance on god guided evolution.

57
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What do you need proof of? That the Gnostic texts exist? Go to the museum and see them...
No I was asking for you for proof that Adam and Eve(peace be upon them both) did not exist. Just because earlier civilization knew of them doesn't mean they didn't exist

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"Nothing exploded and became something and then we got this finely tuned beauty called the universe"
I know, then why do creationists keep claiming that God came out of nothing and then created the universe in six days?
Don't put words into our mouths we never claimed that god came out of nothing and we don't claim that the universe was created in six days. 1.It is basic Islamic philosophy that god is eternal and never had a beginning. Look up the Kallam cosmological argument for the existence of god.
2.The word yawm in arabic has two meanings "day" and "any period of time".

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The second law of thermodynamics only works on a closed system. Our Earth is driven by various forces, such as energy from the Sun (solar energy, radiation) or the Moon (tides).
Did you seriously think I didn't know you would respond by saying that. We all agree that any valid theory of evolution must explain how it is that life gives rise to low entropy. There are two, and only two, kinds of processes known to create low entropy:

1.Law-like processes (processes that occur in accordance with known physical laws -- gravity, quantum mechanics, Newtonian laws of motion, relativity, etc.). Crystals, planets, mountains etc. are low entropy aggregations created by law-like physical processes.

2.Mind-like processes -- intentionally planned processes, such as machines, architecture, art, etc.

Any valid theory of evolution must incorporate at least one of these two processes if it is to explain the low entropy in living things.

- See more at: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2013/09/life_explains_l076791.html#sthash.i1ie41TF.dpuf
Darwinian evolution does not fall under any of two above processes as natural selection is an unguided process with no end in mind.
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Ironically, the law of conservation of energy is violated by creationists, it states that energy can't be created or destroyed.
This law only applies to the natural and not the supernatural.

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"which also has no hope of explaining irreducible complexity in organisms."
Transitional fossils. Google it.
1. I don't think you know what irreducible complexity is. In organisms we find organelles of a cell and organs that if you were to take one part away from the organelle/ organ it would render the whole organelle/ organ useless. Therefore the organelle/ organ could not have developed slowly. It  must have appeared in the organism complete in order for it to work. And the chances of that happening via mutation is beyond astronomical.
2. Did you seriously just cite the fossil record as proof of evolution, it only goes against evolution. Cambrean Period? all them problems it's causing darwinian evolutionists.

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RNA -- > DNA -- > Prokaryotes --- > Eukaryotes (via endosymbiosis)
What was so hard to explain? that's fourth grade biology right there.
You didn't even explain the first cell, you just explained the evolution of the cell. I hope you realize this is all theoritical. They have literally zero proof for a cell that can work on RNA alone. Also lets just assume that amino acids can form spontaneously (which they can't btw) It is literally impossibble for the amino acids to randomly combine and form a single RNA that knows how to replicate itself, act as a protein, convert energy,etc.,etc.. Not only that but the "RNA Cell" has another huge flaw.the RNA world hypothesis can't explain the origin of the genetic code itself. In order to evolve into the DNA/protein-based life that exists today, the RNA world would need to evolve the ability to convert genetic information into proteins. However, this process of transcription and translation requires a large suite of proteins and molecular machines -- which themselves are encoded by genetic information. - See more at: http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/12/top_five_probl067431.html#sthash.n2gL6BHu.dpuf

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / The rationalized
« on: October 01, 2013, 09:51:48 PM »
Ayy guys I'm opening up this new thread so we can refute each one of the rationalizers claims one by one. I have already found a satisfactory response to his flat earth video by dawahfilms it's called "Ex Muslims flat earth" and a while back we refuted his claims on idhaam instrad of ghurdoof. These neo-atheists think think they have something against islam. Let's debunk every one of his claims on errors in the Quran as I don't see any other Muslims bothering to do it. They have gone long unchallenged and it's time for us to refute him. Guys please contribute to this thread. This thread is only to debunk his claims on errors in the Qur'an not to defend the scientific miracles in the Qur'an. Muslims have left Islam because of him and I believe it is time to stand u to his claims. Inshallah we will debunk every one of his claims.

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Typical atheist behavior. Throws out a claim without even bothering to provide proof. You know what? The only myth is your worldview. Nothing exploded and became something and then we got this finely tuned beauty called the universe. You know what else is a farce evolution, which violates the most fundamental law of thermodynamics. which also has no hope of explaining irreducible complexity in organisms. Which also has no hope in explaining the first cell

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Lol, Mr Canadian Atheist can you clarify what the point is behind this post?

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