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Messages - Egyptian

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The opposite is true ,we have several hints affirming the spirit as a creature..

A- The spirit not only is said to have A God, but also in complete submission to him....Just like angels (or being an angel) it won’t dare to move without God’s permission "The Night of Power is better than a thousand months. The angels and the Spirit descend therein by the permission of their God, with all decrees. Peace until the rising of the Dawn." 97:3-5

B - The spirit can’t even speak without God’s permission: "Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, the Beneficent; with Whom none can argue. On the Day when the angels and the Spirit stand arrayed, they speak not, saving him whom the Beneficent allows and who speaks right. That is the True Day. So whoso will should seek recourse unto his Lord?" 78:38

C. The spirit can take the human form: "Then We sent unto her (Mary) Our spirit and it assumed for her the likeness of a well built man.

D- He is called a messenger from God, not God:
Holy Quran 19:18She said: Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art God-fearing. He said: I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.
The incarnation for an earthly mission and be called a messenger fits perfectly with the angels.  Holy Qur'an 6:9 And (even] if We had appointed an angel as Our message-bearer, We would certainly have made him [appear as] a man .

E- In the Qur'an ,Jesus is described as a spirit from Allah ,yet we know that he is created, not divine by any sense ,according to the Qur'an.


Christian: In verse 58:22:" He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (forever).
In order for the Spirit to be able to strengthen believers everywhere implies that the Spirit is omnipresent. Yet only God is omnipresent which essentially means that the Spirit is God.

Muslim : who told you that in order for a force to support the believers to be divine in essence? the holy spirit is supposed to provide extraordinary help in special situations not for everyone ,everywhere,every time ....... who would assume that Gabriel needs to be omnipresent in order to support some selected believers in some selected times ?!!.....



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- Evidently, “The Muslim’s concept of God conflicts with the deity and personality of the Holy Spirit (1) the concept of the absolute unity of God precludes the possibility of the Holy Spirit being God. (2) The personality of the Holy Spirit, and indeed the possibility of knowing God in a personal way through the indwelling Holy Spirit, is incompatible with the Muslim’s concept of Allah's absolute transcendence.” “Since man is a servant (‘abd) of Allah, he does not look for a close communion with God through the Spirit of adoption. The very idea of the Spirit indwelling the believer is incompatible with Islamic ideology”. “Only the Sufis (mystics) aim at union with God, but for them this is achieved by man’s striving upward and not by the coming down of the Holy Spirit to dwell in their hearts.” The holy spirit in the Qur'an : an assessment from a Christian perspective. By Judy Tao Shih-Ching.



Christian: When Muhammad was asked concerning the Spirit he didn’t say he was Gabriel.And they ask you concerning the Ruh (the spirit). Say: "The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord...

Muslim:  
1-Most commentators suggest the (spirit) was asking about here ,is the (soul) that is based on clues eg; (And they ask you concerning the Ruh.) Al-`Awfi reported that Ibn `Abbas said, "This was when the Jews said to the Prophet , `Tell us about the Ruh and how the Ruh will be punished that is in the body - for the Ruh is something about which only Allah knows, and there was no revelation concerning it.' He did not answer them at all, then Jibril came to him and said: (Say:The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little.'') So the Prophet told them about that, and they said, `Who told you this' He said, (Jibril brought it to me from Allah.) They said, `By Allah, no one has told you that except our enemy ﴿i.e., Jibril. Then Allah revealed (Say "Whoever is an enemy to Jibril (let him die in his fury), for indeed he has brought it (this Qur'an) down to your heart by Allah's permission, confirming what came before it.)'' ﴿2:97

2-Even if we ignore the narrations , the verse simply mentions the spirit(which has varied meanings) without revealing anything about its nature.So what are you looking for?  If the spirit is God ,God could have revealed that in the verse (or other verses)in simple clear words.

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Christian: Accepting the idea that the spirit is Gabriel (who is a creature), would contradict other Quranic verses that ascribe the following divine qualities to the Spirit:

1- A Life giver:
Qur'an 15:29 Also 32:6-9 , 38:72 So, when I have made him and have breathed into him of My Spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him. These passages indicate that after fashioning man God gave him life by breathing his Spirit into him….. With the same linguistic structure, in verse 21:91 Mary received the breath of life (life giving spirit) and conceived Jesus: 21:91 "And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and we made her and her son a sign for all peoples." We are also told that God’s Spirit appeared to Mary in the form of a man: 19:17 she chose to be secluded from them. We sent her Our spirit, who presented himself to her as a full-grown human being.   
These passages indicate that the Spirit is not a force but a divine personality

Muslim: Only a dogmatic and close minded who would consider every mention in the Quran, of the word spirit (Ruh) ,has to be the holy spirit, or all the instances the word spirit mentioned, has to be typically in meaning ….

First:

Barbara F Stowasser Professor of Arabic & Islamic Studies CENTER FOR CONTEMPORARY ARAB STUDIES wrote in the Encyclopaedia of the Quran
:

"In its role as conveyor of revelation, the spirit is identified as Gabriel (q.v.; Jibrīl, q 2:97). In Mary’s story, the spirit is the life-creating force of, or from, God. Qurānic commentary, however, has consistently differentiated between “our spirit sent to Mary in the form of a well proportioned man” (q 19:17) and “our spirit [of ] which we breathed into Mary” (q 21:91; 66:12), identifying the former with the angel Gabriel and the latter with the life substance with which God (directly) awakened Adam to life from clay, just as it (directly) awakened Jesus to life in Mary’s womb . The classical interpreters established that Gabriel was a mean, or instrument, of God’s creative power, whence they linked his agency with God’s breathing, or blowing, of his spirit into Mary by developing the theme of Gabriel’s blowing at Mary’s garment or person ."


Second: Assuming the spirit to be some other entity than Gabriel, still it has to be a created entity ……The idea of the divine to be manifested in the flesh is clearly condemned in the Quran … The idea of a created messenger from God that took the human form goes very well with the idea " that is mentioned in Quran and sunna" of Angels, especially Gabriel, taking the human form in earthly mission "….

Third: In Islam, Calling Allah a spirit is a gross error ....

-Jesus is called a spirit in the Quran ,yet we know that he is a creature ,according to the Quran.

- Ron Rhodes,president of Reasoning from the Scriptures Ministries,wrote:

"Muslims assert, “The suggestion that God is a spirit implies He is a created being, like an angel.” Undeniably, Islam says that God is not a spirit; otherwise, one would imply he is part of the created realm, like the angels. On the Contrary, the Bible says that God is Spirit (Jn 4:24; Is 31:3). "

- “the Qur’an uses the word ruh twenty times, but each time the word is understood to refer to a created being that has a subtle body.” Similarly, “Angels and jinn have such a subtle body capable of penetrating a coarse body.” The indications are therefore that “to say that God is a spirit is understood to mean that he is a created being. ” Muslim & Christian at Table by McDowell & Zaka (1999:94)

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Christian: In verses 78:38 On the day when the angels and the Spirit stand arrayed, they speak not, saving him whom the Beneficent alloweth and who speaketh right. and 70:4 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years:, and 97:4 The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by the permission of their Lord, with all decrees.
Also in Hadith"Narrated Aisha: The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) used to pronounce while bowing and prostrating himself: All Glorious, all Holy, Lord of the Angels and the Spirit." (Sahih Muslim, Book 4, Number 0987)

Make a distinction between the angels (of which Gabriel is obviously one) with the Spirit. This supports that Gabriel is not the Spirit. Had the Spirit been Gabriel there would be no need to distinguish him from the angels.

Muslim: In Arabic language it is not unusual to specify part of a whole group to emphasize the significance of that part. e.g.. in 55:68 God talks about fruits, dates and pomegranate to emphasize the last two kinds of fruits. [55:68] In them are fruits, date palms, and pomegranate. In 2:238 God talks about Salat and the middle salat to emphasize its significance of the middle salat.

and
66:4 If the two of you repent to God, then your hearts have listened. But if you band together against him, then God is his ally, and so are Gabriel and the righteous believers. Also, the Angels are his helpers.
This verse mentions the Angel Gabriel separately from the other angels, but we know that he is An Angel himslef.
the same idea in another verse
2:98 Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and apostles, to Gabriel and Michael,- Lo! Allah is an enemy to those who reject Faith.
This verse mentions the Angel Gabriel and the Angel Michael separately from the other angels, but we know that they are angels themselves.

Christian: How do you know that Gabriel is an angel?

We have numerous super Authentic Hadiths, tell us, not only who Gabriel is (An Angel) but also lots of other things about him ….

Some proofs, in brief …

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet said to Gabriel, "What prevents you from visiting us more often than you visit us now?" So there was revealed:-- 'And we (angels) descend not but by the command of your Lord. To Him belongs what is before us and what is behind us...'(19.64) (Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #255)

Narrated Aisha: …………….
The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) pitched a tent for him in the mosque and would inquire after him being in close proximity. When he returned from the Ditch and laid down his arms and took a bath, the angel Gabriel appeared to him…………………. (Muslim Book #019, Hadith #4370)

Narrated Ibn Abbas:................................Whenever Gabriel came to Allah's Apostle ' he would keep quiet (and listen), and when the angel left, the Prophet would recite that revelation as Allah promised him. (Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #451)

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle was the most generous of all the people, and he used to reach the peak in generosity in the month of Ramadan when Gabriel met him. Gabriel used to meet him every night of Ramadan to teach him the Qur'an. Allah's Apostle was the most generous person, even more generous than the strong uncontrollable wind (in readiness and haste to do charitable deeds). (Bukhari Volume 1, Book 1, Number 5: ) etc …. etc…. etc…

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Muslim:  First: Though the revelation given to Mohamed was called (reminder), Holy Quran 15:6 And they said: "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy."
not every reminder is synonymous with the reminder revealed to Mohamed (pbuh)…The folk of Noah had their own reminder Holy Quran 7:63 Are you surprised that a Reminder should come to you from your Lord through one of your own men, so He may warn you and you will do your duty, and in order that you may receive mercy?" The folk of Aad had their own reminder as well, Holy Quran7:69 Are you surprised that a Reminder from your Lord should come to you through one of your own men, so that He may warn you?The torah was a reminder too... Holy Quran 21:105 We have written in the Psalms following the Reminder; "My honorable servants shall inherit the earth."

Second: Holy Quran 16:2 also 40:15 He sends down the Angels with the Spirit (Ruh) by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants.
The angels are sent down to selected servants, not servant ……..Nothing would force the meaning of the verse that a group of angels are sent to each single servant.

Third : Even if the meaning that a group of angels are sent to each single servant, we don’t have any clue that Mohamed peace be upon him had it this way …. Both the Quranic verses and the authentic sunnah affirmed that it was a specific Angel who revealed the Quran ……..
With the hundred of hadiths mention the revelation of the Quran, there is not one instance that mention any other entity whether An Angel or whatever, that taught Mohamed peace be upon him the revelation ,the only angel whose name is mentioned with regards to the revelation of the Qur’an is Gabriel…proving the argument that Allah used more than one messenger to bring down the Quran, is an argument from silence ….

Your theory that the holy spirit (whom you imagine to be different from Gabriel) brought down some of the Quran is mere a conjecture till you tell us when and where such holy spirit, that is distinct from Gabriel, taught Mohamed even a verse from the Quran......Verse 2:97 ,that says clearly ,that it is Gabriel who brought the Quran down for Mohamed’s heart ,Will remain a reference that Gabriel brought down all of the Qur'an …till a qualifier,modifier be provided to render the meaning as Gabriel brought some of the Quran down for Mohamed’s heart...

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Issue No.2 The holy spirit s Gabriel
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Christian: we believe the Holy Spirit as one Person of the Triune God, who revealed His Holy Name YHWH to his people Israel, sent His Eternally Begotten Son Jesus to save them, and sent the Holy Spirit to Sanctify and give Life to his Church. He is the Creator Spirit, present before the creation of the universe and through his power everything was made in Jesus Christ..


Muslim : According to Islam (Quran and Sunnah) ,The Holy Spirit is identified with The Angel Gabriel ....

Christian: What evidence is given to suggest that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel?

Muslim : In the Quran, The word appears twenty-one times and has several different usages in the Qur'an with a wide range of meanings.


1- Spirit as Revelation: Holy Quran 42:52 We have thus revealed a Spirit to you [Prophet] by our command: you knew neither the Scripture nor the faith, but We made it a light, guiding with it whoever We will of Our servants. You are indeed guiding to the straight path.
Here spirit is an inspiration , brought to life in those whose hearts are dead through ignorance.

Christian: It seems that the spirit in the verse is an entity reveals the revelation….
Muslim: why not the revelation itself?

Christian: Holy Quran 16:2 Also 40:15 He sends down the Angels with the Spirit (Ruh) by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants: "That you shall warn that there is no god but I, so be aware of me."

The Quran is simply emphasizing the point that it is Allah that commands the Spirit to come down and reveal the inspiration.

Muslim: Can’t we say that he sends, by his command, the angels with the revelation upon whom He wishes of His servants? If not, why not?

Even if we suggest that the (spirit) mentioned after (commands) not to mean (a revelation), still we can argue that it means (Gabriel) ….. And the meaning would be " He sends down the Angels with Gabriel by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants"…. if not, why not?



2- The Spirit as Gabriel.

Gabriel could be called the spirit, the trustworthy spirit, the holy spirit....

Holy Quran 16:102 
  SAY:   The Holy Spirit has brought it down as Truth from your Lord to brace those who believe and as guidance and good news for Muslims.

Holy Quran2:97
Say:"Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel,then know that He has brought it down for your heart with God’s permission, to confirm what came before it and as guidance and good news for believers.


قل نزله روح القدس من ربك بالحق ليثبت الذين آمنوا وهدى وبشرى للمسلمين  Holy Quran 16:102 

قل من كان عدوا لجبريل فإنه نزله على قلبك بإذن الله مصدقا لما بين يديه وهدى وبشرى للمؤمنين Holy Quran2:97



also ,Quran 26:193 The Faithful Spirit has brought it down into your heart, so that you may be a Warner. 70:4 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is fifty thousand years:78:38 on the day when the angels and the Spirit stand arrayed, they speak not, saving him whom the Beneficent alloweth and who speaketh right.97:4The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by the permission of their Lord, with all decrees.19:17 So she took a veil from them; then We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man.

Christian: I disagree with you and think that the reference all to an entity other than Gabriel...     It is stated that Allah used more than one messenger to bring down the Quran: Quran 77:5 By those who bring down the Reminder.
According to the Quran, the Reminder refers to the revelation given to the prophets and to Muhammad.Quran 16:2 Also 40:15 He sends down the Angels with the Spirit (Ruh) by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants.


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Though we disagree regarding the limit of the father with regard to the deity, we agree in two points ...that (1) such entity exists (2) and divine as well...
Christians don't believe in 3 gods,according to the Quran. but associating with the one true God (the father as they like to call),with 2 non divine entities (Jesus,holy spirit)...  it is not (god+god+god) but (God+god+god).
 
second :May I ask you where did you get the idea that there is God and he is manifested to his creation with three ways? you will argue that the bible says so.... and the bible is entirely the word of God ,that it must be telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth in any Metaphysical concept therein.
....
In other words ,the validity of the trinity depends on the validity of the bible ....
it is a matter of faith ,or would you claim that the supreme being is kept there in a laboratory and proven to be with three manifestations?
your definition of the deity (as manifested in 3 ways) is based on a book of faith (bible),on the other hand a Muslim counter definition of the deity (one entity with no manifestations) is based on a book of faith ,too (Quran) .......
Jesus could be a physical manifestation of the deity, or a prophet, or a lunatic  etc.....The validity of any of the previous rests on the validity of the scripture whether Christian, Islamic.....

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I intend the study inshallah to be as much comprehensive as to address all the points related to the topic ,including answering the christian delusions regarding the quranic holy spirit ,the issue of Mary with regard to trinity etc.....

I read almost all what is written by Christians regarding those matters and the counter rebuttals by Muslims ,and have some more to add to what they wrote inshallah....
..........................................

We as Muslims held the belief of the trinity as just one chapter of the book of shirk …The overwhelmingly powerful assertion in the Quran that God is absolutely one rules out any notion that another being could share his sovereignty or nature …..
The Quran’s view the Christian doctrine of the Trinity involves an association of creature with God the creator, an infidelity that participates in the pagan infidelity of polytheism....


Christians on the other hand , used to affirm that trinity and true monotheism are compatible ,that Muslims misunderstand the trinity,that the Qur'an accuses a sectarian trinity "Father,Mary,Son" etc......

                                   

                                        A Muslim christian dialogue


                                              1st Issue :3 gods? 

Christian: God for me and orthodox Christians, three divine persons Father, Son,and Holy Spirit distinctly coexisting in unity as co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial , or of one being According to this doctrine, God exists as three persons but is one God, meaning that God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have exactly the same nature or being as God the Father in every way. Whatever attributes and power God the Father has, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit have as well. "Thus, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are also eternal, omnipresent, omnipotent, infinitely wise, infinitely holy, infinitely loving, and omniscient."
you Muslims misunderstood that,and accuse us of believing in three gods ....

Muslim :


First : Not true that Muslims accuse Christians that they believe in 3 gods...

god (with small g) means false one,isn't it ?  if so trinity isn't 3 gods,according to Islam ... read the following Islamic definition of God to get the clue.


What is God, according to Islam?

He is the entity that sent Jesus and appointed for him a mission,we call him (Allah)...Christians would like to call such being by (the father) .... Well, though we think he is a father of no one... we won't prohibit you from calling him what you wish, but pay attention....Whenever we mention the word (Allah ) whom you call (the father) we believe in him as the full un-manifested deity. He doesn’t mean for us one of the three aspects of the deity. Allah (what Christians call the father) is not what you think the incomplete definition of the deity but he is the full UN-personified deity.....

Allah (whom they call the father, considering him just one of the three manifestation of the divine being ) is the only divine entity to be exist and to be alone worshiped ...he doesn't need neither (the son),nor (the holy spirit) to complete the Godhead..... he is simply alone there ....
The Quran accuses Christians with ascribing mortal partners to the almighty,besides ,offering the worship that is due to Allah alone ...


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Those who disbelieved?


they are 2 kinds

1- The first kind of disbelievers are those part believed in him as a false prophet , ascribing to Him illegitimate birth, magic, and a shameful death ......
"... the Jewish Encyclopœdia admits :
Quote from:  
jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/8616-jesus-of-nazareth.
The Jewish legends in regard to Jesus are found in three sources, each independent of the others—(1) in New Testament apocrypha and Christian polemical works, (2) in the Talmud and the Midrash, and (3) in the life of Jesus ("Toledot Yeshu'") that originated in the Middle Ages. It is the tendency of all these sources to be-little the person of Jesus by ascribing to him illegitimate birth, magic, and a shameful death. In view of their general character they are called indiscriminately legends. Some of the statements, as that referring to magic, are found among pagan writers and Christian heretics; and as the Ebionites, or Judæo-Christians, who for a long time lived together with the Jews, are also classed as heretics, conclusions may be drawn from this as to the origin of these legends.


1- illegitimate birth:

the Quran - 4:156
And because of their disbelief and of their speaking against Mary a tremendous calumny.


Jerusalem Abodah Zarah 2:2/7 "someone ... whispered to him in the name of Jesus son of Pandera"

In some of the texts, the father produced a son with a woman named Mary (Miriam in Hebrew). Several of the texts indicate that the mother was not married to Pandera, and was committing adultery and - by implication - Jesus was a basta*d child.(wikipedia)

2- Magic:

the Quran - 5:110
And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'


Babylonian Sanhedrin 107b - "The master said: Jesus the Nazarene practiced magic (Editions or MSs: Firenze II.1.8-9, Barco )

3-Shameful death:


Holy Quran [4:157] That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him

Babylonian Sanhedrin 43a-b -"on the eve of Passover they hanged Jesus the Nazarene" (Editions or MSs: Herzog 1, Karlsruhe 2)



Reasons for their rejection and attacks?

the Quran - 2:87 And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?



The things that the Jews desired Jesus to be? is the golden key to understand not only why most of the Jews rejected him, but also the cornerstone to understand everything about the origin of Christianity...


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How far his mission succeeded ?

1- The Jewish reaction to the message of Jesus.


The reactions to the message of Jesus were varied ,due to the varied Jewish expectations of those who are supposed to be sent by God.

The holy Qur'an tells that during his life time A group from the Children of Israel believed, and another group disbelieved ,verse [61:14],it refers to a third group of disbelievers would emerge after his Earthly mission terminated as well ! .

Details:

Those who believed?


1- The disciples ,without exception, believed & supported him :

the Quran - 3:52 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.


and that verse not only negates the idea of a disciple believing in a divinity of Jesus,but also one of the reasons to question the "the substitution theory"  of a traitor from the disciples (so called Judah or whatever) who sold his prophet for a sum of money....

(details on that points in my next study on the crucifixion, inshallah)...



2- a section among the Jews during the life time of Jesus:

The Quran - 61:14 O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of Allah: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, "Who will be my helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples, "We are Allah's helpers!" then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved.


There is no wonder that some Jews accepted Jesus as a prophet of God :

traces of what have been Jesus's original claim as prophet remain in the Gospel texts.

"A prophet is not without honor, except in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house" (Mark 6:4).

A Pharisee thought to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is" (Luk 7:39). Why would the Pharisee wonder if Jesus was a prophet unless this was Jesus's claim or at least a claim made for him by his followers?

On the way through the district of Caesarea Philippi, Jesus "asked his disciples, 'Who do men say that I am?' And they told him, 'John the Baptist; and others say, Elijah; and others "one of the prophets'" (Mark 8:27).

as I said before,the different opinions regarding Jesus, is due to the different expectations by the Jews ....

When Jesus announced his resolve to go to Jerusalem, he is reported by Luke to have said, "Nevertheless I must go on my way …; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem" (Luke 13:33).


there are Jews who believed in Jesus as a prophet and nothing more during his lifetime, after his departure eg; those represented others who already quoted in NT ,and the Ebonite's etc.....  they simply saw nothing he said ,did ,or was done to him, to exclude him from that category of prophet nor to elevate him beyond a prophet.

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3- Were given hard laws .

Holy Quran 4:160 And because of the iniquity (or injustice) of the Jews, We have forbidden them the good things which We had made lawful for them, and for their much obstructing the way of Allah.


The Bible?


Ezekiel 20: 21 “‘But the children rebelled against me: They did not follow my decrees, they were not careful to keep my laws, of which I said, “The person who obeys them will live by them,” and they desecrated my Sabbaths. So I said I would pour out my wrath on them and spend my anger against them in the wilderness. 22 But I withheld my hand, and for the sake of my name I did what would keep it from being profaned in the eyes of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 Also with uplifted hand I swore to them in the wilderness that I would disperse them among the nations and scatter them through the countries, 24 because they had not obeyed my laws but had rejected my decrees and desecrated my Sabbaths, and their eyes lusted after their parents’ idols. 25 So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live

..................................

After we got the context ,let's now concentrate more on the things that were prohibited for the Jews then....

The law of food with the children of Israel ,according to the Quran, had stages:


1- Pre-torah era:

Holy Quran 3:93 All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel(Jacob) had forbidden to himself, before the Taurat was revealed.


up till the revelation of the law of the torah , All food was lawful to the children of Israel except that which Israel(Jacob) had forbidden to himself....

but what does that mean?

It seems that the children of Israel imitated their father Jacob,avoiding some food he had forbidden to himself ....

2- Torah revelation till other new strict laws :

Holy Quran 4:160
And because of the iniquity (or injustice) of the Jews, We have forbidden them the good things which We had made lawful for them.


the verse refers to 1- a time when God revealed a law (Torah) making a distinction between the good and the bad and

2- later time when God revealed a strict law a s a part of his punishment on the Jews due to their injustice ,aggression ....

3- afterwards, some strict laws :

the Quran - 6:146 And for the Jews We have forbidden all that have claws; and from the cattle and the sheep We forbade their fat except what is attached to the back, or entrails, or mixed with bone. That is a punishment for their rebellion, and We are truthful.

all beasts ,birds etc that have nails,claws were forbidden .... pigeons,rabbits ,falcons, chickens, sparrows,ducks  etc...

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2- Sins and transgressions:

Quran - 5:62
And you see many of them hasten to sin and transgression and consuming money illicitly (or eating of things forbidden ). Miserable indeed is what they were doing.

Quran - 4:161
And because they practised usury although it had been forbidden them; and for using others' wealth unjustly. For those who are unbelievers among them We have reserved a painful punishment.

Quran - 2:58
And [remember the time] when We said: "Enter this land, and eat of its food as you may desire. abundantly; but enter the gate humbly and say, `Remove Thou from us the burden of our sins', [whereupon] We shall forgive you your sins, and shall amply reward the doers of good."
Then the evildoers substituted a saying other than that which had been said to them; so We sent down upon the evildoers wrath out of heaven for their ungodliness.

Holy Quran 7:163 And ask them about that town which stood by the sea: how its people would profane the Sabbath whenever their fish came to them, breaking the water's surface, on a day on which they ought to have kept Sabbath -because they would not come to them on other than Sabbath-days! Thus did We try them by means of their [own] iniquitous doings.



3 - Rejecting the signs ,killing the prophets:


Quran - 2:61
they went on rejecting the Signs of Allah and slaying His Messengers without just cause. This because they rebelled and went on transgressing.

Quran - 2:87
We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!



4-They ordered the people to do good, but forget To practice it , sold the revelations for a trifling price such as worldly gains, status and renown , overlayed the truth with falsehood, suppressing the truth.

Quran - 2:41 And believe in that which I have sent down confirming that which is with you, and be not the first to disbelieve therein, and barter not My revelations for a small price, and Me alone shall ye fear.
42. And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).
44. Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?



The punishment ?

1- covered with humiliation and misery

Quran - 2:61
They were covered with humiliation and misery; they drew on themselves the wrath of Allah.


2-Cursed by God and some prophets...

And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts.

Quran4:47 O you who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.    Quran - 5:78 Cursed are those who have rejected from among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and Jesus son of Mary. That is for what they have disobeyed, and for what they transgressed.


no wonder both David and Jesus are depicted shamefully (by those whom they cursed)...one as adulterer and another as son of adultery!

253
Welcome Brother Ben ,and Jazakallahu khairun .


Our point now, is  the THIRD duty The Quranic Jesus was supposed to do:

our discussion has a guide line ,it is the following verse:

Holy Quran 003.050 And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me.



What had been forbidden to the Jews ,that Jesus came to allow some? The answer to that question needs getting the broader context , before examining the law of food with the children of Israel ,according to the Quran, we need to get the context:

How far God blessed the Jews?

1- He rescued them from agony and afflection.

Quran - 7:141
And remember We rescued you from Pharaoh's people, who afflicted you with the worst of penalties, who slew your male children and saved alive your females: in that was a momentous trial from your Lord.



2-He made them inheritors of a blessed land,due to their patience and constancy,made amongst them prophets, and kings.

Quran - 7:137 And We made a people, considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, - lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We levelled to the ground the great works and fine buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride).

Quran - 10:93
And [thereafter], indeed, We assigned unto the children of Israel a most goodly abode, and provided for them sustenance out of the good things of life.

Quran - 5:20
And Moses said to his people: "My people, remember God's favour upon you that he made amongst you prophets, and made you kings, and he gave you what He had not given any from the worlds."



But alas


They:


1- Corrupted the revelation:

5:13 they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them..

etc....

2- broke the convenant:

Holy Quran 4:154
raising Mount Sinai high above them in witness of their solemn pledge. And We said unto them, “Enter the gate humbly”; and We told them, "Do not break the Sabbath-law"; and We accepted from them a most solemn pledge.


Holy Quran 2:84
And We have taken a covenant with you: "You shall not spill each other's blood, nor drive each other out from your homes." And you agreed to this while bearing witness.
Yet you it is who slay your people and turn a party from among you out of their homes, backing each other up against them unlawfully and exceeding the limits; and if they should come to you, as captives you would ransom them-- while their very turning out was unlawful for you. Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the re ward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.




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shirk among some Jews

Holy Quran 5:72 Christ  said: "Children of Israel, worship God my Lord as well as your Lord." God will ban the Garden for anyone who associates anything else with God; his lodging will be the Fire. Wrongdoers will have no supporters.

why Jesus warned the children of Israel (whose religion is monotheistic) against shirk?

A. some Jews venerated the dead saints:

Jack Lightstone dedicated a chapter of 20 pages in his book (The Commerce of the Sacred: Mediation of the Divine Among Jews in the Greco-Roman World) dealing with that matter, that tombs are the site of veneration of the dead, and in which the earthly remains of these saints constitute valued objects in the mediation of the divine.

B-the veneration/worship of angels:

practice of seeking help from the angels is well attested within both Jewish and Christian literature during the Greco Roman period. Inscriptions on amulets and bracelets confirm the widespread reliance upon angels for exorcisms, healing, and protection among the Jewish population.


C- “Star Worship” :

"the Jewish Encyclopedia states":The Israelites fell into this kind of idolatry and as early as the time of Amos they had the images of Siccuth and Chium, ‘the stars of their god’ (Amos 5:26); the latter name is generally supposed to denote the planet Saturn. That the Kingdom of Israel fell earlier than that of Judah is stated (II Kings 17:16) to have been due, among other causes, to its worshipping the host of heaven. But the Kingdom of Judah in its later period seems to have outdone the Northern Kingdom [Israel] in star-worship.” Of Manasseh it is related that he built altars to all the hosts of heaven in the two courts of the house of YHWY, and it seems it was the practice of even Kings before him to appoint priests who offered sacrifices to the Sun, the Moon, the planets, and all the hosts of heaven. Altars for star-worship were built on the roofs of the houses, and horses and chariots were dedicated to the worship of the Sun. (II Kings 21:5; 23:4-5, 11-12) Star-worship continued in Judah until the 18th year of Josiah’s reign (621 B.C.) when the King took measures to abolish all kinds of idolatry. But although star-worship was then abolished as a public cult, it was practiced privately by individuals who worshipped the heavenly bodies, and poured out libations to them on the roofs of their houses (Zephaniah 1:5; Jeremiah 8:2; 19:13) … Jeremiah, who prophesied in the sixth year of the captivity of Jehoiachin (591 B.C.) describes the worship of the Sun as practiced in the court of the Temple (Ezekiel 8:16) and that even after the destruction of the Temple the women insisted on continuing to worship the Queen of Heaven.

D:  The Jewish figure "Son of man" :

mentioned in the Jewish Book of 1 Enoch (dated before the mission of Jesus)  is described as,judge of the world , universal dominion and preexistence are predicated of him . He sits on God's throne , which is His own throne.!!


N. T. Wright. wrote in his book ,The Challenge of Jesus : p. 105.

"There is a complex range of Jewish texts from different periods that speculate about the exaltation and the heavenly enthronement of a figure who may be either an angel or a human being. These speculations grow from meditation upon and discussion of certain key texts such as Ezekiel 1, in which the prophet receives a vision of YHWH's throne-chariot, and Daniel 7, where "one like a son of man" is presented to "the Ancient of Days" and shares his throne. . . .
How far these speculations were taken is a matter of continuing debate. But the point should be clear: things like this were thinkable; they were not obviously self-contradictory, nor were they regarded as necessarily a threat to what second-Temple Jews meant by "monotheism."


It seems that there were enough reasons for Jesus "peace be upon him" to warn Jews against shirk.


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Quote from: The Internal Diversification of Second Temple Judaism: An Introduction to the Second Temple Period,Jeff S. Anderson .
The period in which the second Jewish temple flourished (515 B.C.E to 70.CE) was one of the most prolific and creative in all of Israel's history .It was unparalleled literary and theological diversity . Rather than positing a rigid contrast between biblical Israel and post-exilic Judaism ,it is now recognized that numerous socio-religious communities during this era envisioned themselves as the sole legitimate expression of post-classical Israel.
Admittedly, the religion of Judaism experienced enormous transformations during this time .One common characteristic of the second temple period is that radically diverse groups made very different determinations as to whether another socio-religious entity was or was not practicing Judaism.
.


Jesus came ,according to the Quran , to make clear to the Jews some of the points on which they dispute.. was his mission merely to clear some points of disputes or more other goals ,according to the Quran?

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