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I am uncertain if this topic is covered on this website.

But Dt 32:8 in LUX and DSS attributes the rule of the 70 (see: table of nations) post Babel nations to "The sons of God."

While the Masoretic (KJV , NIV) has replaced the Word God with Israel.

Now at this point Jacob/Israel hadn't even been born. Also he had 12 sons, not 70. If you wish to claim it refers to the sons of the sons of Jacob, you'd be mistaken as either it refers to the 12 or all Israelites, not just his generation.

Sons of Adam, daughter of Aaron applied to wife of Zechariah (sa), are terms that easily prove this.

So what does a Christian say when confronted with this?

Nothing that can erase the obvious fraud of the Masoretes, that much is for certain, and since it is the source of the JOB and NIV translation it's not a Tanakh specific issue.

All I have to say is the 2 oldest of the 3 texts say "sons/angels of God" while only the Hebrew Tanakh, from 1,000AD or so, changed God to Israel.

Imagine one copy of the Qur'an attributing something to Allah appeared attributing said something to Mohammed (saw), Jews and Christians would be all over it.

Fortunately we don't have their problems with integrity of scripture, for which, al-HumdAllah!!!


It has just been learned by me while researching Iranaeus statement that "Jesus" was almost 50, which can't be refuted, he said it clearly in "Against Heresies" book 2.22.

As fascinating as that is, he claims 2 or 3 chapters later that "Jesus", in Hebrew, consists of "2 1/2 letters."

Those letters are supplied in the footnotes as Yod, Sod, (or Shin, I am uncertain) and Aleph, giving us, "Ysa" or YShA, which is used in the Dead Sea Scrolls fragment, "Sons of Salvation", a translation of Yesha, although I am unlearned in Hebrew, I am pretty sure it is Shin because YShA is 3 (2 1/2?) letters, and Iranaeus and every scholar said/says Jesus means "Soter" or Saviour in Greek/English, though it's "salvation", in Hebrew, not saviour.

"My eyes have seen salvation", Yesha, is what is said at the birth of Isa (as), in the Bible.

Granted Iranaeus isn't a great source for reliability, I do not believe he would be ignorant enough to NOT know, at the very least, the Hebrew name of "Jesus."

Also it's supplied by the translator as Iranaeus doesn't actually give the letters, so it is testimony from a recent scholar who translated it for the Ante Nicene Fathers series, vol. 1.

I am uncertain if anyone has ever used this in refutation of the claim that "Isa" is an erroneous rendering of the truly erroneous "Jesus", but it is proof that even Catholic scholars know it was a 3 letter name, and they say it is Ysa or YShA, and like many words rendered in Arabic the Hebrew H is dropped (Ishmael is Ismail, to give an example, or the English, modern Hebrew Shem being Sem).

Yod is render an I in English so transliterate YShA from Hebrew to English is either Isha or YShA, which is in Arabic rendered Isa, pronounced "Issa" or "Eesa."(as)

So next time anyone tells you that Issa (as) is improper or derived from Esau (ridiculous as it is people make the claim), show them Iranaeus "Against Heresies ", book 2, chapter 24 or 25, where it says that in Hebrew the true name of Jesus (as) is YShA, a the footnote which supplies the actual Hebrew letters.

I will post a link I just got excited as I feel like finding this in a second century Church father's writings is exciting, although it might not seem like a big deal some people actually believe that "Jesus" (as) is the proper name for Issa, and that Yeshua was his Hebrew name, Joshua in English as the old Testament attests with Joshua bar Nun (as), Yeshua, which IS NOT the name he was given either, Yesu is the Aramaic/Syriac form, but according to Catholic scholars and Iranaeus in Hebrew it is 2 1/2 letters (3 letters), and Yod, Shin, Aleph, are the letters, YShA.

I will be back with a link to the actual chapter in A.H. be Iranaeus.

Most importantly is that it is not Islam who uses an illegitimate name for our Messiah, Catholic scholars confirm this, with Iranaeus statement, as are people who use Yeshua the old Testament Prophet and warrior, Yeshua bar Nun' s Hebrew-Aramaic name, are just as incorrect, he was NOT named the Hebrew equivalent of Joshua and had, like Yahya, a name given no one before him.

Hilarious side note, Christian's like to call Yahya "John", and say "How can the Qur'an say no one had this name before Johann the Immerser when you have John Hyrcanus?"

Because his name isn't Yohann or John, in Greek it's Ioannes because they wanted to esoterically have his name similar to the god Oannes, because both are related to water, and the Catholic Church still wears the fish hat to resemble the half fish, half godman who came from the water to teach the Phoenicians and whoever else. Freud wrote about this, noted the same thing I noticed, I found out after Googling "Ioanne Oannes", it's in one of his books.

But as the Qur'an says no one else had this name, so does the New Testament doesn't, making Christians look very foolish for not noticing it.

Luke 1:60 (NRSV) "But his mother said, 'No, he is to be called John.' 61 They said to her, none of your relatives have this name."

I do believe, with testimony from Tatian's Diatessaron, that relatives is meant to mean all the Israelites, as 1:62 says, "There is no man of your kindred that is called by this name."

Both are equivalent to what the Qur'an says, but because the name Yahya isn't used in the Greek translation they don't realize what they are criticizing is in their own Gospel of Luke, think it refers to her immediately family because of how it's translated, and that the Aramaic(Mandaic) name used by the Mandaeans, whose priests are called Nazarenes, and their major Prophet John the Baptist is called "Yahya", and that this sect is as old as Christianity, nay, older if you go back to Yahya, but attested to in the writings of Epiphanius, and in the Greek Homilies of Clement, (4th century MS., 1st century book about Simon Peter (as) that even has Simon Magus succeed to the head of Yahya's Nazarenes,  which makes a great explanation for their beliefs in a Demiurge, that isn't God, but a lesser being that created the world, which is exactly what Simon Magus state's in Homilies and Recognitions of Clement, whose MSS. are 4th century and the Syriac actually is the oldest dated MSS. in the world at 411 AD.

Regardless, the Ginza Rabba, holy book of the Mandaeans, who use Aramaic liturgically, calls him Yahya, so it's not an Arabic word, and as usual corrects the errors of the Bible, which makes Christians blame the Qur'an out of a lack of knowledge.


I have always been fascinated by a very remark in 1 Clement which has been found with other extra epistles in an ancient complete New Testament, I believe it's called Codex Alexandrinus and is extant in Syriac as well as the Canon of the Ethiopian Church who preserved 1 Enoch and Jubilees, probably the 2 most important Apocryphal books ever. 1 Clement is believed by most scholars to be the genuine work of Clement of Rome, chosen successor to Simon Cepha, "Peter." And dated to late first century.

Forthwith I present it and to the best of my knowledge nobody has yet suggested it may be about Islam but after you read it you'll wonder why  (unless I am wrong and it's been suggested).

Chapter XXV

Let us consider that wonderful sign [of the ressurection] which takes place in Eastern lands, that is, IN ARABIA and the countries round about it. There is a certain bird which is called a Phoenix. This is the only one of it's kind, and lives ***500*** years. And when the time of it's dissolution draws near that it must die, it builds itself a nest of frankincense and myrrh, other spices, into which, when the time is fulfilled, it enters and dies. But as the flesh decays a certain kind of worm is produced, which, being nourished by the juices of the dead bird, brings forth feathers. Then when it has aquired strength, it takes up that nest in which are the bones of it's parent, and bearing these it passes from the land of Arabia into Egypt, the the city called Heliopolis. And, in open day, flying in the sight of all men, it places them on the alter of the sun, and, having done this, hastens back to it's former abode. The priests then inspect the register of the dates, and find that it has returned exactly as the 500th year was completed.

John Nikiou, Monophysite priest of the 1st or early 2nd century A.H. wrote about his dissapointment in his fellow Copts in Egypt for supporting the new Ummah against Emporer Heraclius, as did the Yahudi of Persia in a pseudepigraphal Apocalypse attributed to Talmud heavyweight Shimon bar Yohai, "Secrets of Simeon ben Yohai", and Syrian Monk John bar Penkaye wrote in favor of the Divine Mission of Prophet Mohammed (saw) who he saw as an invincible force because Allah sent him to, among other things I am sure, protect "Our Monastic station."

You could say (I am saying) " A Wonderful Sign of the ARABIA, and the COUNTRIES ROUND ABOUT." factually DID "take place."

Approximately 500 years later almost exactly to the point unless you know exactly the date of composition of 1 Clement and match it to the proper date re: Islam's Advent through Mohammed (saw) from Allah. You can't really deny this if you choose not to believe that it speaks of Mohammed (saw) and Islam.

Places, date, sign which takes place in  Arabia and around it. Of course it's a parable, Issa taught Simon Cepha who taught Clement what he was taught.

I heard that Yahudi went to Arabia because they expected a Prophet, and that half the Rabbis of Medina converted. There were probably Nazarene and Ebionites as Epiphanius Panarion reports their existence in the 4th or 5th century and probably they became Muslims.

"Accepted the register (s) of the date and found that it returned exactly as the 500th year."

Ibn Salam, Allah be pleased with him, was the wisest Yahudi in Medina I'm told and matched Tanakh prophecy to Mohammed (saw).

Secrets of Simeon ben Yohai attributed the "Rider on the camel" as the Christians do Issa (p), as do we with the donkey, to Prophet Mohammed (saw).

And he (saw) is. If only they knew.


Salaam brothers and sisters.

I was reading a particular post that among other things discussed the Coptic Revelation of Peter, I wanted to point out that there are other Revelations of Peter and not to be critical but the Coptic one which verifies the true account of the alleged crucifixion, that is, it happened as Allah swt says, is stated to be the same as quoted by the Church fathers ("Call no man father, for you have One Father in Heaven"???), I am almost positive Ante Nicene fathers vol 9 has the fragments of that one. If notices they'll jump on it, it's just I own both NHC and A.N.F vol 9 how I know).

My true point is not that, just wanted to let you know so if you decide to look into it and come to the same conclusion I imagine unlike Shamhoun you would acknowledge it, if I am correct.

A Syriac version of the Homilies and Recognitions of Clement of Rome, not the one that is the oldest dated MS on earth (have that too, just published recently)at 410AD, which is not even the oldest copy as the Greek is as old as Sinaiticus, but a version translated from pre vowel point Arabic into Syriac (and a Geez version), called Kitab al Magall, Book of the Rolls, was published in the last century in 7 books.

The 8th has never been published or fully translated. It's an alteration that includes trinitarian ideas which the original never approaches but it has some interesting things to say about the self proclaimed apostle to the (pagans according to my Jerusalem Bible) "gentiles", which Acts even says Allah decided Simon Peter was (contradictions abound w mr. "If through my FALSEHOODS God's glory abounds why am I being judged a sinner?).

Such as he "changed books", "Paul or anyone like him" should not be taught the teachings in the book, and unlike the Greek Simon Magus is not used to veil the identity of "the enemy" who as Saul tried to murder Yakov the Just (Zaddik).

I am lucky to have a pdf of a partial translation from, if needed I can email you the file by "Woodbrooke studies" ; A. Mingana, fasciculus 8 in the John Rylands Library. The translation was done at a time when few scholars were aware that Paul was persona non grata among the true 12 disciples of Issa (sa) as he expresses confusion that today would surprise no scholar.

'As God liveth no one ought divulge these mysteries to Paul or anyone like him." He admits he will be ommitting that Paul calls Peter "Master" as he is subservient to Peter.  The Ethiopian translation is edited but you will find the Syriac MS at the end.

I noticed that in the once Canonical (Alexandrinus or Vaticanus, still in Ethiopia) 1 Clement has a Syriac version too, untranslated. I can no longer find the book I got it from but it said something about Paul maybe should not be a leader and step down. Anyone can get a pdf of this Syriac version but again, not in English.

Could anyone look into these matters? I hope they are of some use as it's obvious why neither are available in English to everyone, they confirm what we all know but that Christians long after did too and simply kept secret books or in the case of the 410 and earlier MS substitute Paul with Simon Magus, a well known fact to most scholars.

Also, there is the strange notion that the tribe of Benjamin existed in 1AD, this is not possible for many reasons I don't have to mention. I am certain it's a euphemism for "Herodian Jew", which is definitely the case with Paul and his "Kinsman" foster brother of the Tetrarch and "Herodion", many others in fact (see: R. Eisenman).

Paul is "Acher" in the Talmud, meaning other. Also from Acherah (Heb: barren, "Faith without works is barren" e. of James), in "Visio Pauli" he is taken to the "Acherusian lake" where it seems his teachings are systematically rebuked. Nobody pays attention to this but Ante Nicene fathers vol 8 has H&R of Clement and V.Pauli/R. of Paul.

Last but most importantly I have something of my own findings to offer.

Herod Arche-laus
Herod Acher-Saul

A Benjaminite is a Benjaminite because Herod is an "Other (King) Saul." Saul was of Benjamin. But also not of the 2 returned tribes. I can think of no other reason for a tribe called Benjamin existing then.

Ibn Taymiyya called Paul out for who he was, but said something baffling in the process. He said Paul, "Son of Rabbi(?) Joshua and something about a "King of the Jews" being his relative.

Poleme of Cilicia where Paul says he was from, like the Ebionites said of Paul, was circumcised to marry a Jewess, spurned eventually and turned on Judaism and hated circumcision (Paul "The mutilation", "Circumcision faction" re: 12 Apostles), and had a brother named Pallas who "wrote letters to the Jews of Syria to incite them.

All in book XX (double cross???) of Josephus Antiquities.

Ebionites re: Paul, see Epiphanius Panarion or Iranaeus.

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