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Messages - thetruthseeker

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31
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Divorce is not adultery. A Christian can divorce and remain unmarried and it is not adultery to do so. When a divorced Christian remarries, it is adultery if they divorced from their first spouse for any reason except for uncleanness (porneia in Greek) which covers every sexual act with any person who is not your spouse.

Basically, once you get divorced then you cannot get married with someone else, right? Why is this law? What if two people were forced to marry and later they want divorce?

The definition of adultery is to have physical relations with someone who is not your spouse, it is not to marry a divorced women. You cannot call marrying a divorced women adultery if its not.

My apologies, I forgot to answer your other question: What if two people were forced to marry and later they want divorce?

Christians are never forced to marry. I have never heard such a thing in Christianity.

32
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Divorce is not adultery. A Christian can divorce and remain unmarried and it is not adultery to do so. When a divorced Christian remarries, it is adultery if they divorced from their first spouse for any reason except for uncleanness (porneia in Greek) which covers every sexual act with any person who is not your spouse.

Basically, once you get divorced then you cannot get married with someone else, right? Why is this law? What if two people were forced to marry and later they want divorce?

The definition of adultery is to have physical relations with someone who is not your spouse, it is not to marry a divorced women. You cannot call marrying a divorced women adultery if its not.

God considers the two to be one flesh. If you divorce a woman for any reason other than uncleanness, it is adultery when you marry someone else because you are still married to the first woman in God's eyes. That's right, adultery is physical relations with someone who is not your spouse. Because God sees you as still married to the first wife, by you marrying another and having sexual relations with her, you are committing adultery. Some in the Christian circles believe also that abandonment is reason for divorce too in the case of a Christian who is married to a non-Christian and I would agree with that as Paul talks about this in Corinthians, but in the case of two Christians who are married to each other, they are not to divorce unless one has been sexually unfaithful. If you divorce and your wife was not unfaithful, then when you marry another, you commit adultery. Hope that makes more sense.

33
You interpret it as not in contradiction. Some Christians interpret it as Moses creating some Laws by himself. And Jesus abolish it with his sayings that divorce = adultery.

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The divorce mentioned in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is not a command from God, but was permitted by Moses

Thats is exactly what i wrote in the end,
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In short the Christians are saying Bible is not entirely words of God due to Deut 24  not a revelation from God.
It is something written by Moses.

Divorce is not adultery. A Christian can divorce and remain unmarried and it is not adultery to do so. When a divorced Christian remarries, it is adultery if they divorced from their first spouse for any reason except for uncleanness (porneia in Greek) which covers every sexual act with any person who is not your spouse.

34
You interpret it as not in contradiction. Some Christians interpret it as Moses creating some Laws by himself. And Jesus abolish it with his sayings that divorce = adultery.

Quote
The divorce mentioned in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is not a command from God, but was permitted by Moses

Thats is exactly what i wrote in the end,
Quote
In short the Christians are saying Bible is not entirely words of God due to Deut 24  not a revelation from God.
It is something written by Moses.

You said:

in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 a divorced woman can marry other man. And if the the new husband dies, the first husband cannot remmary his ex-wife, nothing about adultery in here.

But the Greek books state that Jesus disagrees with Moses and changed the permission in Deuteronmy 24 as quoted in Greek book Mark 10.

I have demonstrated by my previous comment that Deut. 24 includes adultery as it would be uncleanness. I also showed the Jesus did not disagree with Moses as the reason Moses gave for divorce is the same reason Jesus gave... UNCLEANNESS. It was wicked hard-hearted men who twisted uncleanness to be whatever they wanted it to be.

35
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: The Messiah and the Prophet
« on: December 17, 2015, 09:52:16 AM »
For upon the birth of an Ishmaelite prophet in East. Many of israelites were dissapointed and could not accept the prophecy given by Yhwh.

There are also few Israelites who posses knowledge of the scripture and anticipated the coming of the prophet like Moses being an Ishmaelite. And they accepted the prophecy given by Yhwh with joy.

This doesn't really answer my question, but thank you for taking the time to respond.

36
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Jesus will return as an Arab?
« on: December 17, 2015, 09:50:19 AM »
It seems you interpret differently, as other Christians interpret Matthew 24 as the return of Messiah in end of times.
And other Christians say the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 a.d is not a sign of his return.

Which is why it is very important to have the correct interpretation. It is clear that Matthew 24 has been fulfilled if one studies it. Matthew 24 was not described as Jesus' second coming during the end of time until after the 1800's. No Christians taught this as a future passage; it was taught as past and historical. Only when the false teaching of the secret rapture began to be taught did this also begin to be taught as a future prophecy. MANY Christians are deceived by this, but there are some, like me, who have had their eyes opened to the truth. If you read all of Matthew 24, you will see that it cannot possibly apply to Christians 2000+ years into the future. The obvious one is that Jesus repeatedly says "YOU". He is not speaking to me or any other Christian today, he is speaking to His disciples. Also, consider these verses:

16 then those in Judea -- let them flee to the mounts; (Who? THOSE IN JUDEA. How on earth does that apply to me, a Canadian Christian? It simply doesn't.)

20 and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath; (Why would that matter to a Christian today? We have cars, planes, etc. Travel in the Winter would not matter and why not on the Sabbath? Travel was not allowed on the Sabbath AT THAT TIME. It has nothing to do with Christians today.)

And let us also consider that Jesus said that during this time, it would be such tribulation that the world had never seen and WOULD NOT see again. How on earth can that happen two times?

21 for there shall be then great tribulation, such as was not from the beginning of the world till now, no, nor may be.

And finally, Jesus said:

34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass.

The generation that Jesus was speaking to at that time! And this came to pass because the destruction of Jerusalem was about 30-40 years after this and many who heard Jesus speak about this were still living when Jerusalem was destroyed.

So, if me and other Christians who have come to believe that Matthew 24 is not about Jesus' coming at the end of the world, but His coming in judgement on Jerusalem in 70AD, then Matthew 24 is not speaking about Jesus returning as an Arab.

Also, as I previously pointed out, even if this was a scripture about Jesus' return at the end of time, the phrase "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west" is not a reference from where He would come (East, South, North, West), but the manner in which He would come. This is clear by the context as Jesus had just finished telling His disciples to not look for him in secret places our here or there because His coming would not be mistaken. It would be unexpected and rapid like lightning.

37
Oops, my scripture made an emoticon, sorry about that. I meant to say: Matthew 19:8

38
in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 a divorced woman can marry other man. And if the the new husband dies, the first husband cannot remmary his ex-wife, nothing about adultery in here.

But the Greek books state that Jesus disagrees with Moses and changed the permission in Deuteronmy 24 as quoted in Greek book Mark 10.

In short the Christians are saying Bible is not entirely words of God due to Deut 24  not a revelation from God.

Moses permitted men to divorce their wives and give them a certificate of divorce because of the hardness of their hearts. They had to have a reason to divorce and that was "ervah"which is uncleanness. This was abused as they would divorce their wives for any reason they saw fit and would claim this to be uncleanness. He permitted the divorce because many husbands would just send their wives away without a certificate to show they were divorced and these women would end up killed because they had no proof for their divorce and would be deemed "adulterous". So, although adultery is not mentioned, it is in their laws and that is why Moses permitted the divorce with a certificate. The husbands also did not want to give a certificate because they would have to give back any money, animals, etc. that the gained by marrying the wife.

When Jesus came and was tested, He reaffirmed what Moses said; He did not contradict Moses. Jesus said you could divorce and remarry in the case of "porneia" in Greek, which means uncleanness.

Remember, Jesus said "He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so." Jesus is discussing God’s will for marriage “from the beginning”.  God's original marriage plan, as instituted in Eden, had ideally never changed, though a relaxation of it had been allowed under Moses. But here, Jesus preceded to restore marriage to its original intent.

The divorce mentioned in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 is not a command from God, but was permitted by Moses, as Jesus confirms (Matthew 19:8). Why did Moses permit divorce? Moses perceived that if divorce were not permitted, in many cases, the women would be exposed to great hardships through the cruelty of their husbands (hardness of their hearts). Moses tolerated a relaxation of the strictness of the marriage bond--not as approving of it, but to prevent still greater evils. And therefore if they had not been allowed to put away their wives, when they had conceived a dislike of them, they would have used them cruelly, would have beaten and abused them, and perhaps have murdered them. “But from the beginning it was not so” is repeated, in order to impress upon His audience the temporary character of this Mosaic relaxation. Moses did not direct it, or suffer it, in any such sense as to imply that God approved of it, or that it was right. It was a temporary regulation, suffered for a time on account of the wickedness of men, and in order to prevent the greater evils which that wickedness would otherwise have occasioned. It was a regulation as to the mode of putting away; not to justify that wrong practice, but to lessen, in some measure, its evils.

So Deuteronomy 24:1-4 does not contradict Jesus' teaching on marriage and divorce and Jesus' is teaching what God implemented in the beginning when there was not hardness of hearts from wicked men.

Also, God Himself demonstrated Jesus' teaching by divorcing Israel and giving her a bill of divorcement for the reason of adultery.

39
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / The Messiah and the Prophet
« on: December 16, 2015, 07:55:11 AM »
You say that, "the awaited Messiah and the awaited "the Prophet" were clearly TWO DIFFERENT PERSONS, who are strangers to each others, and are not from the same bloodline."

I find this interesting because in the scripture you quoted, something doesn't make sense (John 1:19-21).

If the Prophet was to be an Ishmaelite, or a non-Israelite, then why in the world did these Jews ask a fellow Israelite, John, if he were that Prophet to come? Why did they ask John, an Israelite, if he were that Prophet if the Prophet was to be a non-Israelite, a Gentile?

40
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Jesus will return as an Arab?
« on: December 16, 2015, 07:46:34 AM »
Reading through your article entitled, "Jesus will return as an Arab, not as an Israeli (or Israelite)!", I found something interesting. You say that Jesus will return as an Arab since the scripture says, "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man."

I would like to shed some light on this scripture. First, this scripture has already been fulfilled. The "coming" described here is the coming of Jesus in judgement on Jerusalem, which happened in 70 AD. This is not a scripture directed to Christians 2000+ years into the future. This prophecy has been fulfilled, therefore, it cannot mean what you say it means. Let us examine the scriptures:

Matthew 24:25-27
25 See, I have told YOU ahead of time.
26 “So if anyone tells YOU, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.
27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Who is the "YOU" Jesus is speaking to? Is it Christians 2000+ years into the future? No. It is his disciples. This scripture is not future, it is past.

Now, for V.27. Jesus had just finished telling His disciples not to believe it when someone tells them that they saw Jesus in the wilderness, or that they saw him in the inner rooms because when He returns, it will not be mistaken or a rumor. This phrase, "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west" is not designed to denote the quarter from which he would come (East, West, North, South), but the manner. He does not mean to affirm that the "Son of man" will come from the "East," but that he will come in a rapid and unexpected manner, like the lightning. Many would be looking for him in the desert, many in secret places; but he said it would be useless to be looking in that manner; it was useless to look to any particular part of the heavens to know where the lightning would next flash. In a moment it would blaze in an unexpected part of the heavens, and shine at once to the other part. So rapidly, so unexpectedly, in so unlooked-for a quarter, would be his coming.

You see, it must be read in context and we must look at history to see if Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled and this one has been.

41
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Muslims and non-Muslim friend/spouse
« on: December 16, 2015, 07:35:21 AM »
Hello!

Thank you for all your hard work on this website. I am a Christian, but have been interested to know what Muslims believe. A website like this takes a lot of time and hard work, so thank you for that!

In your article entitled, "Can Muslims take non-Muslims as friends?", you say, "It is clear that Islam doesn't prohibit personal friendships with Jews and Christians or any other people." You also say, "Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish and Christian women."

But in your article entitled, "Marriage in Islam", you say, "If we are not allowed to take the Jews and Christians as friends and protectors, do you think we should consider marrying from them?"

That is a contradiction. Can you clarify, please?

Thank you!

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