Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Egyptian

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 ... 18

      Brother Egyptian excellent explanation. Brother Egyptian I think  السَّمَاوَاتِ         
 includes  other things, dimensions beyond the universe ....

the lower heaven with all its stars etc... and the other 6 heavens ,are just a part of the السَّمَاوَاتِ

Brother Egyptian am I right?


the word "alkawn" means "the general absolute existence" , heavens or the universe are just included in that general term "alkawn" .


ty, but if God wanted to say universe, why didn't he use the word for 'universe'-الكون?

Just an answer in ahurry ....

translating the word "al kawn" as "universe" is not proper .....  the word "kawn" is more general than "universe" .....  "kawn" would includes any other things, dimensions beyond the universe ....

the lower heaven with all its stars etc... and the other 6 heavens ,are just a part of the "kawn"...

it still raises a question to the Christian that thinks this verse is a contradiction. And that question is "why would Allah make you believe in something that he recognized is corrupted, isn't this a contradiction in the Quran?"

I don't think it is a contradiction .....


2:285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from Lord, and [so do] believers; everyone believes in God and His angels, His books and His messengers. We do not differentiate between any His messengers.

The noble verse described the muslims as the ones who believed in God and His angels, His books and His messengers.

but are the prophets before Mohamed still alive in persons?  no.

it means we believe in them as they WERE prophets ,and it is not conditional that they must be alive in order to believe in them.....

Second: not only is the case of the prophets but the case of the scripture itself, it is not conditional in order to believe in a revelation ,that it must be present fully as it was originally revealed ,eg;

Holy Quran: SAY: "We believe in God and what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants, and what was given Moses and Jesus, and what was given the [other] prophets by their Lord.

what was sent down to Abraham?

So remind, if the reminder should benefit;He who fears [Allah] will be reminded.But the wretched one will avoid it -[He] who will [enter and] burn in the greatest Fire,Neither dying therein nor living.
He has certainly succeeded who purifies himself,And mentions the name of his Lord and prays.
But you prefer the worldly life,While the Hereafter is better and more enduring.Indeed, this is in the former scriptures,The scriptures of Abraham and Moses.
 Qur'an 87 (Al-A'laa), ayat 9-19

no scrolls of Abraham survive till today ,yet the Quran described the muslims as they already believed in that scroll.......   so how that could be?!

the answer is simple, the quran has the core of the teachings of the previous revealed books, it means if you already believed in the quran ,you automatically believed in the previous scriptures as originally revealed ....

Can anyone also explain verse 2:113 where it says:

(The Noble Qur'an, 2:113) The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment.

^Does this mean that both their books are good and uncorrupted?

The verse means ,that both the Jews and the christians each read their scriptures and each infer that the other have no ground to stand on.  .

You are welcome mclinkin94 and thanks giving time for reading .....

Hear or read?

Holy Quran 2:74 Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this).

the verse 2:74 tells the readers that the Jews heared the word of God ,not they read the word of God ,it doesn't suggest them reading a text then making a textual corruption,but it could denote those Jews had heard the torah (could be from the prophets' mouths) then though they understood it ,they corrupted it ,and penned that as a true scripture...

let's visit the second verse related :

Holy Quran [003:078] And there is a sect of them twist their tongues with the Book, that you may suppose it part of the Book, yet it is not part of the Book; and they say, 'It is from God,' yet it is not from God, and they speak falsehood against God, and that wittingly.

2 suggested meanings

1- some of the Jews used to utter some passages in a way that they twist their tongues in order to change the pronunciation to convey another meaning non intended by the text , deceiving the listeners (who never read the scriptures) ,thinking that what they uttered is real scripture from God ...

2- another understanding by Imam Mohamed Metwally Al Shaarawy in his tafsir:

the word (laye) means (twist) when we make rope we braid the fibres together to improve strength....
the same way the jews twisted,braided their tongues with words they claim to be from God,in order to gain strength in their position with the listeners...

Our next verse is:

Holy Quran 4: 46 Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right) places, and say: "We hear and we disobey"; and "Hear what is not Heard"; and "Ra'ina"; with a twist of their tongues and a slander to Faith. If only they had said: "What hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us"; it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe.

what does it mean by displace words from their (right) places?

let's imagine some wicked greedy imperial powers planning to invade utilize a rich country that is ruled by a great leader .... such leader is the obstacle for their evil palns ,hence they prepared a plan to displace him from his position in the realm of leaders ,afterwards they will either

1- put instead of him to rule the country,another corrupted ruler

or to

2- after abducting him they execute him ,letting no trace of him.

or to

3- force him to do some dirty work,he is not supposed to do ,as a spy etc

this exact example is the one we should apply to the verse to understand the exact meaning

the phrase mentioned in the verse يحرفون الكلم عن مواضعه  means literally to displace,abduct a word(words) from its position in the verse(s) ,passage(s).....

they abduct the words from their place in the chapter, why? it is the same reason the imperialists abducted the great leader,just cause they don't desire it ... it is an obstacle to their agenda...

so they either abduct the word putting another word instead ...or to delete the word making it disappear, or to take the word out of context ,infusing it in another writing misapplying its original meaning intended.....

the next verse is :

Holy Quran 2:49 Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say:"This is from Allah," to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

That verse refers to the Jews (just read the context from verse 47)  and is a direct,clear reference to the worst type of corruption (to write a text using your human ideas,yet claiming to be inspiration)......

Why the Quranic focus on the Jews when accuses directly of biblical corruption ,why not using the word (Christians)?

the answer, cause the New testament is a Jewish production, it was composed by Jews .....
if both the old and new testaments are Jewish production then ,it is understood why the Quranic accusation of a Jewish biblical tampering.

The corruption before or after Islam?

Sura 2:74 Then your hearts hardened after that, so that they were like rocks, rather worse in hardness; and surely there are some rocks from which streams burst forth, and surely there are some of them which split asunder so water issues out of them, and surely there are some of them which fall down for fear of Allah, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do. 75 Do you then hope that they would believe in you, and a party from among them indeed used to hear the Word of Allah, then altered it after they had understood it, and they know (this).

the context before the verse is the story of the Jews and God's bless on them which they didn't appreciate ,continued to misbehave and their hearts hardened and were like rocks !!
immediately after such description of the nature of the Jews ,God would tell the believers don't get high expectations from the Jews you know who share the same nature of their forefathers who had hard hearts used to corrupt the word of God.....

another verse with the same idea .... their hearts are hard as rock ,corrupting the word of God

Holy Quran 005.012 : Allah did aforetime take a covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my messengers, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude."But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

have you any doubt that the Quran views the Jews before Islam as corrupting the word of God?

still anyone after reading the previous verse,claims that the criticism is levelled specifically towards the jews living the time of Mohamed peace be upon him ?

Would the pious,religious Jews corrupt the word of God?

yes, that is the human nature...before Judaism we have clues that religious people from different times and places forged for the sake of God, even in Islam some religious persons forged Hadiths !! wonder man would always lie for his vain desires...

Why would the religious, lie,corrupt the word of God?

A- To gain religious statue which mostly leads to materialistic benefit.... ,some forgers had good intentions of a religious reform ,so they were seduced to put the divine signature under their theories to attract the masses and get them taking the ideas of reform seriously ...

the group of the dead sea scrolls ,and some of the writers of the NT could be included in such category ,they weren't conspirators (with the literal meaning of the word) to Judaism but they tried to reform it (the way they thought to be effective)..... ,in other words they believed that the END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS.

B- In order to gain dominance, they forged supporting documents under the names of earlier authorities,altering the words of the sacred text, to make them more patently orthodox and to prevent their misuse by Christians who espoused aberrant views.

That last motive is exposed in details in the book, The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture: The Effect of Early Christological Controversies on the Text of the New Testament.Bart D. Ehrman

would early Christians die for a lie?

no wonder ,as long as ,from a christian point of view, Muslims are dying for a lie too...
Nazists died for a lie .. etc etc etc....

propaganda would turn the biggest lie to the sweetest truth which you would kill and die for...

in sum and substance

The Quran described The Jews as used to corrupt the word of God by all possible means

adding, deleting passages,misapplying passages by false interpretations, they even ,twist their tongues with falsehoods trying to sell them as scripture,writing a text claiming it to be from God


Are the old and new testament corrupted? and what is the nature of that corruption ?is it tahreef -Lafthi ( adding,omitting, substituting words ) or false Interpretations or both?

the bible(both old and new testaments) ,according to the Quran, is partially corrupted:

we can get such fact through both direct accusation and inference :

1- Any time the Quran mentions something biblical yet contradicts,denies it ,then we can safely infer that the Quran accuses the bible indirectly to be tampered with ...

Jesus was crucified ,according to the bible yet wasn't crucified ,according to the Quran etc.... a huge list of such disagreements between both the books showing the Quran affirms a biblical corruption....

Is there a rational person who would believe that Mohamed believed that Jesus wasn't crucified ,and believed that the new testament is FULLY the word of God ?!!!!

2- Though I think the previous inference should be, and alone, a proof of a Quranic accusation of biblical tampering,yet the Quran talks even directly and accuses the human tampering with the word of God in several ways:

1- attacking the false claims of inspiration:

Holy Quran :

6:21 Who doth more wrong than he who inventeth a lie against God.

6:93 Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against God, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none.

[003:078] Among them(the Jews) are those who twist their tongues to imitate the scripture, that you may think it is from the scripture, when it is not from the scripture, and they claim that it is from GOD, when it is not from GOD. Thus, they utter lies and attribute them to GOD, knowingly.

[002:079] Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

In that category we can include Paul who claimed to be inspired 1 Thessalonians 2:13when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men

also the writer of 2 Peter 1:21...

not only with the bible ,the verse could be applied safely with any human being who falsely claimed to be inspired ..

eg; The mormon founder ,the Qadiany sect and their founder who claimed in his book to be receiving inspiration,also the radical Sufi sects and their claims of divine inspiration ...... etc etc etc..

2- Attacking the textual corruption ( adding,omitting, substituting words ) :

[002:075] Do you ( believers) covet that they will believe in your religion inspite of the fact that a party of them (Jewish religious figures) used to hear the Word of Allah (the Taurat), then they used to change it knowingly after they understood it .

the previous verse could be applied to the textual corruption and the interpretation(comes later) as well..

[004:046] Of the Jews there are some who pervert words from their times and places; and say, we have heard, and have disobeyed.

but the Jews referred to are those Jews living the time of Muhammad or ?

[005:013] But because of their breach of their covenant(the Jews before Islam), We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for God loveth those who are kind.

3- attacking false interpretations:

What is that, changing the words from their right times and places? it is to misquote, misinterpret, twist, distort, pervert, misapply , and concoct an existing text..

it is the third category of corruption after 1-providing a text from nowhere divine ,2-altering,adding,omitting the text



If the the new testment ,according to the quran ,is not typical to the original injeel revealed to jesus ,then why the quran calls the new testament with Injeel?

the answer is simple, we still call Cairo with the same name it had when it was more beautiful ,having no ugly areas as those areas that is has nowadays...

the modern ugly areas that are added to the original Cairo , hadn't have made people call it with other name than its original name .......

the same way could be applied to the old and new testament ...thouge partly corrupted , still can be fairly called ,Torah and Injeel.


in previous post I defined what the quran means by Injeel

to add ...

looking for lost Injeel?

If you keep searching for it ,well ... the Quan tells you it has to be mostly within the New Testament .............

It has to be mostly the saying gospel (call it Q or whatever you like ) that is within the new testament ..... if there is something missed from it ,the Quran has already mentioned it (proverbs and what laws been modified) other words there is no Injeel secrets that is hidden from you ..... the Injeel is already available within the new testament and the Quran.......
the Quranic definition to Injeel won't exclude any discovered saying gospel ,in condition to be the same ideas of the Saying gospel within the new testament ....

« on: June 22, 2013, 05:24:31 AM »
Yes but if you tell that to a Christian, then they will say that the Quran is contradicting itself

the christian common claim ,is not that the Quran contradicts itself regarding the corruption of the bible ,but they claim that the Quran validates the bible FULLY !!

because in verse 4:136 it says to believe in the Torah and the Gospel as they were when they were given to muhammad. The Christian would say: "why would God make you believe in a false book if the Quran recognizes those books were corrupted?" Because at one place, the Torah/gospel were corrupted and in another place the Quran says believe IN them.

the answer of that question requires explanation to the following:

1- what is meant by the torah and injeel,according to the Quran?

2- are they corrupted? what is the nature of that corruption ? how far is the corruption? before or after Islam?

what is Torah,according to the Quran?

1- A scripture was revealed only to Moses :

the Quran - 2:5 And when We gave unto Moses the Scripture and the criterion (of right and wrong), that ye might be led aright.

the Quran - 6:91 And they do not assign to Allah the attributes due to Him when they say: Allah has not revealed anything to a mortal. Say: Who revealed the Book which Musa brought, a light and a guidance to men.

the Quran - 17:2 And We gave Musa the Book and made it a guidance to the children of Israel, saying: Do not take a protector besides Me.

the Quran - 11:110 We have given Moses the Scripture, yet they disputed in it.

the Quran - 28:43 And We verily gave the Scripture unto Moses after We had destroyed the generations of old: clear testimonies for mankind, and a guidance and a mercy, that haply they might reflect.

for what?

the Quran - 32:23 And certainly We gave the Book to Musa, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.

It remained a guide for the children of Israel ,after the departure of Moses:

the Quran - 40:53 and We verily gave Moses the guidance, and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the Scripture

the Quran - 42:14 And they did not become divided until after knowledge had come to them out of envy among themselves; and had not a word gone forth from your Lord till an appointed term, certainly judgment would have been given between them; and those who were made to inherit the Book after them are most surely in disquieting doubt concerning it.

Even the prophets after Moses,the Rabbis, and the Priests would judge with it ...they weren't supposed to add new scripture to the corpus of the Torah...

the Quran - 5:44 We have sent down the Torah, in it is guidance and a light; the prophets who have surrendered judged with it for those who are Jews, as well as the Rabbis, and the Priests, for what they were entrusted of God's Scripture, and they were witness over. So do not fear the people but fear Me; and do not purchase with My revelations a cheap price. And whoever does not judge with what God has sent down, then these are the rejecters.

The Quran gets 2 cases of a scripture after Moses ?

1- Zabur (some of the psalms):

The holy Quran 17:55 We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.

the Quran - 21:105 Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

that verse is really there in the psalms ; Psalms 37:29 "The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever,"

To note ,the psalm was revealed as words of wisdom ,not a law as the Torah.......

2- Injeel (the saying parts of the 4 gospels):

the Quran - 3:48 And He teaches him(jesus) the Scripture and the Wisdom and the Torah and the Injeel.

Again ,the gospel was intended as words of wisdom and ,again, not a law as the Torah ,yet would modify some hard laws.

In a word ,what is the word (scripture) in the Quran could refer to,while refering to an existing written work?
It is some of the contents of : Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, ,Deuteronomy,Psalms,gospel
and fully to the content of :The Quran ...

what about the other books eg; Judges ,jonah Ruth ,Micah,First Samuel ,Ecclesiastes ,Nahum ,Song of Solomon,Isaiah , Jeremiah and Ezekiel...etc.....?

well ,They could have true traditions (beside false ones) ,but they would never be called scripture .......


Were the Gospel/injeel corrupted during the Quran revelation, or was it perfect at the time?

according to the Quran ,yes they were already corrupted ,during the Quran revelation ....

Injeel is not typical to the new testament ,according to the Quran:

Injeel ?

1- A revelation was sent to Jesus, as a guidance and light, confirmation yet modifying few items of the Law that had come before him, to make clear to Jews some of the (points) on which they dispute, a guidance and an admonition to those who fear God, verses 5:046,3:50 ,43:63 ...

2 - It HAS TO BE mostly the saying parts of the the synoptic gospels

Holy Quran[007:157] "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the Torah and the Injil;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper."

the Quran though tells that both the books were tampered with(we have exposed that in previous posts),yet most the truth has remained therein .....
the verse is not telling Christians,Jews to go look up a passage (s) in a lost gospel .....

the Injeel is mostly within the new testament .... why mostly? The Quran quotes the Injeel (besides the torah),directly ?

Holy Quran[009:111] God hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Torah, the Injil, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than God?

Holy Quran [048:029] Muhammad is the apostle of God; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from God and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Injil is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. God has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.

Are such promise & proverb to be found in the Old and New Testament?

if they are not there, then the Saying gospel (which is within the New testament) is missing some parts.....

If the following modifications of the Law were parts of the Injeel, and no mention about them in the saying gospel, then we can be assured of missing parts in the saying gospel that are parts of the Injeel .....

Holy Quran 3:50 "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

Holy Quran 43:63 When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: "Now have I come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which ye dispute: therefore fear Allah and obey me.. that is why I said the Injeel is MOSTLY within the saying gospel ..

Please Osama throw a contradiction in the New Testament.

And I will answer it right now for you

welcome John to the forum

let me give you an important note:

plz, don't post offtopic posts !!!  the forum has several sections ,each dedicated to its own subject...

anyway ...let me throw you one new testament contradiction ..

there is an obvious contradiction between the writer(s) of John and the writer of Matthew

Matthew 28:1-2:
Now after the Sabbath, toward the dawn of the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to see the tomb. And behold, there was a great earthquake, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled back the stone and sat on it.So they departed quickly from the tomb with fear and great joy, and ran to tell his disciples. And behold, Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

John 20:1-2:
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb. So she ran and went to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one whom Jesus loved, and said to them, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we do not know where they have laid him."

if Mary met an angel at the tomb, and then Jesus himself (as Matthew says) then why does she merely report that the body had been stolen?

before you may try to reply I have a condition ... please post your reply in another thread that you should initiate ...

let me suggest for you posting in that section ,Responses & Rebuttals for the Bible
click here,21.0.html

any reply here,and not in a thread dedicated, I will simply ignore.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

guess what is the most misleading thing in the whole article? is it his claims of quranic textual development?

not really !!      rather it is the way he concluded his article !!!...

the writer directed the people to respond to his findings of his amazing research! by believing that Jesus is the way and the truth and the life.and that Eternal life in paradise comes from following him alone.

in other words ,he wishes the people reject a book (Quran) with minor textual variants(as he suggests),and later accept a book (new testament) that is plagued with huge textual variants .....

good deal isn't it?!!!


now for the Sanaa manuscript .....I didn't read all of the following rebuttal , but you can take a look,any comments are welcomed.. .....

Assalamoalikom bro Osama
Assalamoalikom bro mclinkin

The argument of the article linked , based on the following hadith

    Abu Huraira reported that Allah's Messenger (mpbuh) took hold of my hands and said: Allah the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam (pbuh) after 'Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, ie. Between afternoon and night.

that hadith was not accepted as authentic by some scholars eg;  Imam Bukhari ,didn't accept it to be included in his sahih collection ,and said :

 'This saying is not that of the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), but one of Ka'b al-Ahbar' was quoted by abu hurrairah."

I personally , hold that postion of not trusting that narration ,not only for being clearly contradicting the Holy Quran ,but also some other reasons to be mentioned....




The article quoted has many points ...

this post I would in a hurry refute one of the points.... 

1- The writer claimed that "According to the Quran, Mecca was the first and most important city in the world."  chapter and verse, please?

2-  According to the Quran,  Adam placed the black stone in the original Kaba (sanctuary) there !!
chapter and verse, please?

3- According to the Quran, Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt the Meccan Kaba centuries later(after Adam) ?

Chapter and verse for that in bold ,please?
and not to forget ,the question whether Abraham and Ismael built or rebuilt the Kaba ,is a controversial matter ,some suggest the first (eg;Imam Ibn Taymiyyah ,Ibn al Qayyim,Ibn katheer ,Ibn al Uthaymeen )others the second.

more refuted points in next posts inshaAllah.


Jazakallahu khairun ,Bro Ali...and welcome to the blog .

assalamalaikom you all brothers...

first I hope brother Osama merge or move that thread into the other thread or section talking about the same topic.......

thank you ,Sama ,for the link,though I think the writer's reasoning is faulty...

The problem for the critics is that this has already been explained by Muhammed (PBUH) as an idiom (a figure of speech). Muhammed (PBUH) explained this Quranic reference by saying “the (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of apostles and pious persons who had gone before them."

First : The prophet's saying doesn't mean "sister of Harun " would be  "an idiom" but it means ,Mary had a literal brother whose literal name was "Harun",and that is no wonder as the jew(and others too) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.

So in short, this is not to be taken literally

The prophet (peace be upon him) explained it literally ,and It must be taken literally (more reasons to be mentioned in the following lines).

let us focus on some Christian missionaries who pad this claim with other references or points of argumentation.
1. The first appendum is that the Christians of Najran were the ones who objected to the title “sister of Harun”, thus the critic claims this intimates idioms of such a nature were not in use in the past. The critic wants PROOF showing past communities using such phraseology.

the Christians of Najran ,thought that the "Harun" mentioned in the verse, has to be the brother of Moses ,and the prophet corrected them ,that he wasn't. he was a literal brother to Mary ,ho had the same name.

It was narrated from Ibn Jarir, narrated from Yaqub, narrated from Ibn U’laya, narrated from Sa’id Ibn Abi Sadaqa, narrated from Muhammad Ibn Sireen who stated that he was told that Ka’b said the verse that reads, "O sister of Harun (Aaron)!" (of Sura 19:28) does not refer to Aaron the brother of Moses. Aisha replied to Ka’b, "you have lied."
Ka’b responded, "O Mother of the believers! If the prophet, may Allah’s prayers be upon him, has said it, and he is more knowledgeable, then this is what he related. Besides, I find the difference in time between them (Jesus and Moses) to be 600 years." He said that she remained silent.

first :the authenticity of that narration is classified as Hadith Munqati', A tradition that has a discontinuous chain of transmitters . and dubious.

وقال ابن جرير : حدثني يعقوب حدثنا ابن علية عن سعيد بن أبي صدقة عن محمد بن سيرين قال: نبئت أن كعباً قال: إن قوله: (( يَا أُخْتَ هَارُونَ )) ليس بهارون أخي موسى، قال: فقالت له عائشة : كذبت، قال: يا أم المؤمنين! إن كان النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قاله فهو أعلم وأخبر، وإلا فإني أجد بينهما ستمائة سنة، قال: فسكتت، وفي هذا التاريخ نظر ]. ثم أيضاً هو منقطع، قال محمد بن سيرين : نبئت. من الذي نبأه؟ فيه انقطاع

Second: assuming the narration as true, then Aisha misunderstood the meaning,surely she never heard of the explanation of the prophet to Sahabi Al Mughira Ibn Shu’ba,after his return from the christian community of Najran.

Sale wrote:
“it manifestly appears that Mohammed well knew and asserted that Moses preceded Jesus several ages."  Thus it is clear to Sale that Muhammed did not believe Mary and Aaron to be literal brother and sister or even contemporaries.

exactly ,and to elaborate:

First :we already know from the holy Quran that :

1- a succession of prophets came after Moses and before Jesus:

2:87 For, indeed, We vouchsafed unto Moses the divine writ and caused apostle after apostle to follow him; and We vouchsafed unto Jesus, the son of Mary, all evidence of the truth

Quran 5:46 Lo! We did reveal the Torah, wherein is guidance and a light, by which the prophets who surrendered (unto Allah) judged the Jews, and the rabbis and the priests  by such of Allah's Scripture as they were bidden to observe, and thereunto were they witnesses. So fear not mankind, but fear Me. And My revelations for a little gain. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are disbelievers.We prescribed for them in : a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and a wound for a wound. But, if anyone forgoes it, this shall be for him an expiation. Those who do not judge by what God has sent down are wrongdoers!And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard .

Quran 57:27 And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.Then, in their wake, We followed them up with [others of] Our messengers and after them Jesus, son of Mary.

Quran 4:155 The followers of the Book ask you to bring down to them a book from heaven; so indeed they demanded of Moses a greater thing than that, for they said: Show us Allah manifestly; so the lightning overtook them on account of their injustice. Then they took the calf (for a god), after clear signs had come to them, but We pardoned this; and We gave to Musa clear authority.And We caused the Mount to tower above them at (the taking of) their covenant: and We bade them: Enter the gate, prostrate! and We bode them: Transgress not the Sabbath! and We took from them a firm covenant.Because of their breaking the charter, their disbelief in God´s signs their killing the prophets(after Mose) without any right to do so, and their saying: your hearts are covered over," instead, God has stamped them with their disbelief. They only believe a little and for their ingratitude and their saying against Mary serious, false charges to harm her reputation .That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him.

Second : The prophet said that no prophet appeared between him and Jesus :

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 55, Number 651:
Narrated Abu Huraira:I heard Allah's Apostle saying, "I am the nearest of all the people to the son of Mary, and all the prophets are paternal brothers, and there has been no prophet between me and him (i.e. Jesus)."

For it does not follow, because two persons have the same name, and have each a father and brother who bear the same names, that they must therefore necessarily be the same


It must be observed that though the Virgin Mary is called in the Koran, the sister of Aaron, yet she is nowhere called the sister of Moses. 

yes ... and that is a question directed at those who suggest "sister of Harun" as an idiom.....

not only it would be proper if they use metaphorical idiom of lineage ,to use "daughter of ....." instead of "sister of...." but also why hadn't they used "daughter or sister of Moses" who is far more important than Harun....

I would conclude the post with final words from some tafsirs that mention the literal understanding:

1-The great Tafsir "Al-Razi" wrote :

"sister of Harun" is suggested to be literal or metaphorical ,the literal is the most sound ,and the meaning would be ,that she had a literal righteous brother whose name was Harun ,and the Jews gave her the shame of being a sister of a righteous person and commit such shameful act of adultery...strengthen more the literal meaning is that ,it is known that the literal meaning is the rule and the exception is the metaphorical (that requires strong basis to resort to), also the same verse there is a mention of her father and mother as righteous, and that makes her Deserving more censure and condemnation. for having righteous brother and parents ,yet she commit such shameful adultery...

In Arabic:

 مختار فخر الدين الرازي:
 كان لها أخ يسمى هارون من صلحاء بني إسرائيل فعيرت به وهذا هو الأقرب لوجهين:
الأول: أن الأصل في الكلام الحقيقة, وإنما [كان]ظاهر الآية محمولا على حقيقتها لو كان لها أخ يسمى هارون.
الثاني: إنها أضيفت إليه[يعني أخوها] ووصف أبوها بالصلاح وحينئذ يصير التوبيخ أشد لأن من كان حال أبويه وأخيه هذه الحالة يكون صدور الذنب عنه أفحش]].

2- Tafsir Albahr Almoheet :by Ibn hyan alandalusi:

the sound meaning is that it was her close brother ,as they used to name themselves with the names of the prophets and righteous before them.

[ج] أثير الدين محمد بن يوسف ابن حيان الأندلسي(ت.745هـ) في البحر المحيط 6/186:
[[ (يا أخت هارون) الآية. الظاهر أنه أخوها الأقرب, وكانوا يسمون بأنبيائهم والصالحين قبلهم

3- Tafsir Alqurtubi: 

the meaning could be also that she had a literal brother whose name was Harun ,as lots of Jews liked to have that name ,as it was the name of the blessed Harun brother of Moses peace be upon them.

وقيل: كان لها أخ من أبيها اسمه هارون؛ لأن هذا الاسم كان كثيراً في بني إسرائيل تبركاً باسم هارون أخي موسى، وكان أمثل رجل في بني إسرائيل؛ قاله الكلبي

4- Tafsir alsamarqandi:

that could also mean,that she had a brother named "Harun" from her father not her mother ,the christian objected ,how could mary sister of Harun and between them 600 years ,and the prophet peace be upon him explained that Mary had a brother who was given the same name ,the prophet Harun had ...

ويقال كان لها أخ يقال له هارون من أبيها ولم يكن من أمها وذكر أن أهل الكتاب قالوا كيف تقولون إن مريم أخت هارون وكان بينهما ستمائة
 سنة فذكر ذلك لرسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - فقال: " إنهم كانوا يسمون بأسماء الأنبياء والصالحين عليهم السلام " يعني أن أخا مريم سُمِّي باسم هارون النبي عليه السلام

5- Tafsir alnisaburi:

the sound meaning is that she had a literal brother whose name was "Harun".

 فقيل: كان أخاها من أبيها من أمثل بين إسرائيل وهذا أظهر لأن حمل اللفظ على الحقيقة أولى من غيره

6- Tafsir Althaalebi: If the hadith of almughira is authentic ,then the meaning that she had a brother named "Harun" is the sound meaning.

 وما رواه المُغِيرة إنْ ثبت هو المعوَّلُ عليه

7- Tafsir Alsaadi:

the sound meaning is that she had a real brother name Harun,not the prophet Harun.

{ يَا أُخْتَ هَارُونَ } الظاهر، أنه أخ لها حقيقي، فنسبوها إليه، وكانوا يسمون بأسماء الأنبياء وليس هو هارون بن عمران أخا موسى، لأن بينهما قرونا كثيرة

Now Imam Abi elabbas Alqutubi ,refute those tafsirs who suggested the metaphorical meaning ,in his book "clarifying the difficulties in Sahih muslim collection"

he wrote :

the Hadith that was reported by Al Mughira Ibn Shu’ba "after returning from where the community of Najran" would refute clearly ,any saying in some books of tafsir that ,Mary was called "sister of harun" as an idiom ,denotes that she is supposed to be as pious as Harun....

[هـ] كلام أبي العباس القرطبي(ت.656هـ) في المفهم لما أشكل من كتاب مسلم 5/461:
[[ وحديث المغيرة يدل على أن مريم إنما سميت أخت هارون بأخ لها كان اسمه ذلك, ويُبطل قول من قال من المفسرين إنها إنما قيل لها ذلك لأنها شبهت بهارون أخي موسى في عبادته ونسكه

Any questions,comments ?

May Allah bless you brother Osama ,and all of you dear brothers and sisters..

Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 ... 18

What's new | A-Z | Discuss & Blog | Youtube