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Messages - Egyptian

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77
Thanx Bro Black Muslim for your note....  actually I advised a memeber"Paresian"  of the same ,but he continued to repeat the same behaviour, initatiating threads linking a mountain of Anti-islamic links !!!!

most (if not all ) of the religious forums,online prohibit starting threads by linking full articles , and the reason is very reasonable......

it is that ,quoting full links from anti material ,would shift the readers attention to the other malicious sites ...

it is llike making a free publicity to anti islamic sites ,hence sadly ,turning the purpose of the islamic forum into the exact opposite ,and instead of having the reader reading the refutations of the anti -islam material ,getting them ,and for free, the malicious articles...

one may ask,why just you don't let them link all those articles ,and you refute them?

good question ,the answer is simple, not only we don't have yet much muslim members to refute every single line in those huge articles ,but also we (especially the well-informed) are not Internet addicted ,and we have a life and families etc.... we simply don't have much time to all that effort.....

for example,talking about myself ,I eagerly wish to be able to have time to write lots of things in my mind ... but sadly the life I have won't enable me yet for such time to dedicate......


anyway ,I hope Bro Osama , apply that rule always : To delete and warn any member who post anti-islamic links .....   
any memeber who have a point of criticism ,must be specific ,addressing the outline of the point ,the outcome of the article he read etc......



peace

78
Quote
or maybe Adam was a dinosaur

How rude ! Behave !

How is that rude? It's just a hypothesis!

a hypothesis based on scientific or religious "Islamic" grounds?

The scientific theory doesn't say the first human was a dinosaur , Islam doesn't say we evolved from a dinosaur like creature "Adam" ....

a baseless hypothesis ,indeed.


79
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Country
« on: December 26, 2012, 07:05:13 AM »

Dubai and Britain are the locations of both Bro RamziBinNabil , Tanveer .....

but let me guess ,they may be originally from pakistan,india or Banglades?

correct me if I'm wrong...?


80
I see that we agreed almost on everything . But something still makes me fell unrest . You see , when someone comes to us and says :"The oldest discovered bones were not that tall . Therefore there is a mistake"

Omo remains or Homo habilis were taller than current humans ? how much?


He can't make sure 100% that the oldest bones found were from the time of our father Adam .

I agree with you totally in that,yet that is not the point ,our point is the earliest DISCOVERED human fossil size,compared with the current size....


maybe the shrinking was faster in the first generations .

what is the proof of a slower shrinking , in the last generation "from the time of the earliest human fossils discovered, up till now" ?

what really makes my heart unrest is that you doubt this saying . Otherwise , please tell me what makes it untrusted .

May be you forgot my reason ,dear brother .....
actually you even considered it a possibility.... let me quote you,plz:

And it could be like what you said and Abu Huraira mistakenly said a telling of "Ka'b Al-Ahbar" as a saying of the prophet .

81
POLLS & VOTING / Re: POLL: What is your Religion?
« on: December 24, 2012, 03:46:06 AM »

I think your position is exaggerated (There is only one God ) I will in a hurry address some of the narration you posted ....

Jewish belief 1 - Allah has arms and feet
 Volume 9, Book 93, Number 541:Narrated Abu Huraira:



First :The vast majority of the Jews maintains that God has no body,possesses no physical form. and any reference to God's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making God's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world.

second:  Even the Quran has attributes of God eg; hand ,eyes ,etc....
so the Hadith wouldn't be problematic with the Quran ,once it attributes legs .....
the Quranic verses that attribute hands,eyes ,etc... to the almighty ,had been understood both literally (Salafi school ,in past and present)and metaphorically (Ashaari school,etc..).....
still all of them agree that "Nothing like God"

Third: Though I agree that the Hadith could be questioned (just like some other hadiths narrated by Abu Hurrairah).... but that doesn't mean we should mistrust Al-Bukhari....


2) A she monkey committed adultery

Is that story narrated by the prophet (peace be upon him) or any of his companions? the answer is NO.

Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah:The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes.

Holy Quran 75:23 Some faces will be radiant on that day, Looking towards their Lord.

we can't see God in our wordly life, but will he enable us to see him ,in the hearafter?  the matter was controversal between the literalists and the mutazeli .....and "Allah know best".....

more next post inshallah....





 

82
POLLS & VOTING / Re: POLL: What is your Religion?
« on: December 23, 2012, 04:37:30 PM »
Actually not only many of Shia practice such kind of shirk ,but also the sufi sect as well ....
They missed the true meaning of pure monotheism which necessarily requires directing the worship to Allah alone ,without any mediator ...

he is the only Helper, Protector,merciful,forgiver ,whether in heaven or on Earth.

still our duty as Sunnis who follow the path of the prophet peace be upon him and his companions may Allah bless their souls ,to remind such minor sects with  such basic goal of Islam (to abolish shirk in all its form) ,in a civil way , never calling them polytheists ,as long as they are not aware of what shirk means....

I know many shia abstained from such practices after sincere advices ....

 Holy Quran   3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).




83
POLLS & VOTING / Re: POLL: What is your Religion?
« on: December 23, 2012, 03:38:16 PM »
I hope our efforts be dedicated to its goal

answering-christianity

not wasting times answering the Islamic minor sects....


Christians are more than happy when watching muslim vs muslim disputes....

thanx...

84
Thank you Bro Black Muslim ,though the discussion in the 2 threads you linked was civil, yet most of their posts are irrelevant to what I think the critical point of the tradition .... it is again:

the tradition claims that humans have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation up till (at least) the prophet's times .....

The earliest fossils of anatomically modern humans are about 200,000 years ago such as the Omo remains of Ethiopia (that if we don't think that the fossils of Homo habilis 2.3 million years ago,belongs to humans).

surely we don't know the time of Adam till such thousands of thousands years ago .... but we can compare the oldest human fossils discovered with the modern human skeleton ...... it is there ,where the critical point is .....  nowhere in the links ,any of them answered that question.....

for me it is not a problem ,as I doubt the authenticity of the tradition ,still highly esteem the collection of Imam Al-Bukhari.


85
Does the hadith say where Adam PBUH was at that size?
It doesn't say it directly but it must be assumed to be The heavenly paradise.but though Heaven is another dimension and the physics is different there. still that won't change the meaning of the narration ...  claiming that the size of Adam was 60 feet ,and after descending from paradise God made his size shrunk ! is not in harmony with the narration itself....
If Adam's size was shrunk to be as the normal size of a human , then what is the meaning of the portion of the narration " People have been decreasing in stature since Adam's creation".

The narration is clear , the people who followed Adam continued to diminish in size(60 feet) up to modern times !!!


Indeed . Even though he was very strict and careful , that doesn't mean he doesn't make mistakes - with respect to him - and that's how humans are . But I guess that you agree with me it wouldn't harm us if it was true right :) ?

I think the narration poses the problem of gradual decreasing of size of humans , as we have ancient human skeletons that even smaller than modern human shape... (correct me if I'm wrong plz).

but as I explained before ,the narration (and some others narrated by Abu Hurrairah) are questioned ,not only on a textual basis but more important on a chain of narrative basis.

still the fact, in spite of those very few questioned narrations,Albukhari collection is highly trustworthy and informative. may Allah bless his soul Ameen.

The only thing for us to discuss now is the pictures . Do you agree ? Or maybe you have another opinion ?


I trust only the photos of museums , just why no where a skeleton from those is reserved and publicised in a museum?


I would like to conclude the post with interesting information:


A young man in Saudi Arabia created a piece of clothes ,the same size of Adam, according to the narration (29 meters) tall and 12 meters wide !..... lol


take a look







86
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Muslims in Nigeria (Boko Haram)
« on: December 23, 2012, 07:58:23 AM »


I think the best way for them to achieve their goal,should be through democratic means ... forming a political party , If people are convinced to their agenda ,they will achieve their goal without shedding blood.

87
Egyptian , the source for our knowledge is Quran and the sayings of the prophet peace upon him . And we must trust in them If there isn't a valid proof that the saying in Bukhari is untrusted , then nobody has the right to claim so . .

I absolutely agree with you ... I'm not a shia or Quran alone muslim ,to disagree with you.

But the point ,is though the highly position of his collection,and his strict approach to choose his material , very few of his narrations was questioned .....

And you should remember that there are somethings which remained correct in the books of Jews and Christians . So1- if these things match Quran and Sunnah , then we accept them . If they don't , we deny them .

to add :
2- If these things match the certain well establieshed historical facts.
3- If these things match the certain well established scientific facts.


They really found bones and pictures of giant humans . Unless the pictures are fake or untrusted

There is no trustworthy proof of remains of giant humans (where is that museum having such skeletons?!!!)

1 - It isn't acceptable to claim the saying is incorrect without evidence .



The evidence exists ,though it needs a thread wholly dedicated , still I would like to give outline....

well, those who question the narrations of the creation of Adam and other few narrations mention issues of the unseen ,narrated by Abu Hurrairah , base their criticism on some points ,but before discussing it , we need to make the following note as our starting point:


1- In Sahih Muslim collection ,there is the following Hadith ,Narrated by Abu Hurayrah:

  Allah's Messenger took hold of my hands and said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, created the clay on Saturday and He created the mountains on Sunday and He created the trees on Monday and He created the things entailing labour on Tuesday and created light on Wednesday and He caused the animals to spread on Thursday and created Adam after Asr on Friday; the last creation at the last hour of the hours of Friday, i.e. between afternoon and night. 
(Sahih Muslim Book No. 38).

Such Hadith clearly contradicts the Quran , that is why  Al-Bukhari said, 'This
saying is not that of the Prophet (may
Allah bless him and grant him peace), but Abu Hurayrah have taken it from  Ka'b al-Ahbar ."

Why Imam Albukhari thought
so?

1- Ka'b al-Ahbar taught Abu Hurrairah myths.


Translation of Malik's Muwatta,  Number 5.7.17: Yahya related to me from Malik from Yazid ibn Abdullah ibn al-Had from Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn al-Harith at-Taymi from Abu Salama ibn Abd ar-Rahman ibn Awf that Abu Hurayra said, "I went out to at-Tur (Mount Sinai) and met Kab al Ahbar and sat with him. He related to me things from the Tawrah and I related to him things from the Messenger of Allah ........

2- Ka'b al-Ahbar spread some false myths to his listeners "I have many examples".

3- Some of the listeners of Abu Hurrairah confused his narrations of the prophet (peace be upon him) and his narrations of the things he recieved from Ka'b:

"Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj "Author of Sahih Muslim" reported from Busr ibn Sa'id, as saying: Observe your duty to Allah and be cautious toward relating hadith. By God, we used to sit with Abu Hurayrah, and he was relating traditions of the Messenger of Allah (upon whom be God's peace and benediction) and those of Ka'b al Ahbar. On his departure, I would hear some of the attendants making the hadith of the Messenger of Allah to be from Ka'b, and hadith of Ka'b to be of the Messenger! In another narration: They would make Ka'b's utterance as if said by the Messenger of Allah, and what is said by the Messenger of Allah as if uttered by Ka'b! So guard against Allah and beware in relating hadith.

Upon that basis ,we can (at least) question the authenticy of other hadiths from the same category "the unseen ,whether past stories or future ones"
including the hadith that mentions not only the size of Adam, but also suggests evolution " continual ,gradual reduction of human size !!!!   

some other narrations of Al-bukhari that was narrated by Abu Hurrairah ,may be included ,eg; Moses smashing the eyes of the angel of death, Moses naked in front of the Jews,Allah created Adam in His own image, The sun and moon are two bulls in the hell on the Day of Resurrection ,God put His leg into Hell fire !... etc. etc.etc.

hope that brief outline was helpful.

88
Ahteism & Agnosticism / Re: Neanderthals?
« on: December 20, 2012, 01:11:47 PM »

Thank you for the links Bro Black Muslim  ...... 

but in order to be objective ,let's hear the voice of the evolutionists countering the objections to evolution...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_evolution
.....

I personally convinced to evolution as a creation of Allah,and not taken place on its own.

89
alot of people actually join after seeing discussions and wanting to put their input in.

True...

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