Author Topic: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth  (Read 16127 times)

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Offline mclinkin94

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Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« on: July 13, 2013, 10:55:28 PM »
The Quran did that in many places. Why doesn't it reference the Earth in it as well? Non-muslims keep telling me the Quran references the geocentric model of the earth many times. How are they supposed to accept islam if they see what they call a scientific absurdity>

Can anyone provide evidences and hints as to how the Quran does NOT support the geocentric model even though it constantly references the Sun/Moon having an orbit and doesn't mention the Earth.

Now some people say that in one verse it says "all [celestial bodies] are travelling in an orbit", but why does it not just explicitly state that? Why does it have to be a vague reference? Others will be extremely skeptic of this interpretation because when you weight the number of times the Quran hints at the geocentric model against that one time--it will not show the Quran supports the geocentric model.

Help please.

Offline Egyptian

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2013, 02:29:04 AM »

peace and Ramadan mubarak


Can you provide evidences as to how the Quran DOES support the geocentric model ,PLZ?

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 02:51:13 AM »
This is from a website:

It is very clear from the Qur'an and scientific observations that the moon makes rounds around the earth. The Qur'an mentions the sun and the moon in such a way as if they are following each other
[ Qur'an 13:2 mentions Allah subjected the sun and the moon, each pursuing an appointed course ]
There is only one moon and one sun in the entire Qur'anic universe. The position of all these celestial bodies within this universe are clearly described in the Qur'an. For example, the heavens are above the earth, and the sun and the moon are within the heavens, and the earth and the stars are below the lowest heaven to beautify it.
[ Qur'an 71:15-16 - Have you not seen how Allah created the seven heavens one above the other, setting in them the moon as a light and the sun as a lantern? ]
The Qur'an mentions heavenly bodies traveling in their own orbits, but so do the concepts of day and night. None of the bodies are supposed to run into each other.
The heavens are firmly held in place lest they move from where they are and fall on the earth.
[ Qur'an 2:22-29, Qur'an 35:41, Qur'an 21:104, Qur'an 2:65, Qur'an 17:92, and Qur'an 34:9 ]

According to the Qur'an, the supposed course of the sun:
is clearly visible.
is (almost always) compared to the Moon's course.
is repeated regularly.
is to be used by the Muslims for timekeeping.
has a destination. Beginning in the east, it goes up to a high point, then goes down to the west.

Offline Egyptian

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 03:50:42 AM »
This is from a website:

 The position of all these celestial bodies within this universe are clearly described in the Qur'an. For example, the heavens are above the earth

if  the Earth is round shaped then ,heaven is above it from every direction and it ,itself is within the heaven.


and the sun and the moon are within the heavens

[ Qur'an 71:15-16 - Have you not seen how Allah created the seven heavens one above the other, setting in them the moon as a light and the sun as a lantern? ]


The moon is a light for the seven heavens ?

holy quran 25:61 Blessed is the One Who has placed constellations in(alsamaa) the sky and set a beacon in it, plus a shining moon!


you see? the word used "alsamaa" is singular , so is the moon a light for one heaven? or the word sky is the right meaning?

holy quran  71:11 He causes(alsamaa) the clouds to send torrents down upon you .

now we have a strong clue that the word "alsamaa" is sometimes used in the quran ,meaning a part of "alsamaa" not the whole......

moreover we have a  clue that the word "alsamaa" is sometimes used to refer to something between the earth and "alsamaa"...

holy quran 2:164 and in the clouds pressed into service between earth and (alsamaa) sky, there are indeed signs for people who use their reason.


Allah  refered to the clouds as "alsamaa" while he already knows that they are between the earth and "alsamaa"....



in sum ..the Quranic usage of the word (alsamaa,aka heaven,sky,or part of any) doesn't necessarily requires its meaning to be the whole "heaven", or even the whole sky...

to be concluded in next post.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 04:00:49 AM by Egyptian »

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 05:30:35 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum,

This is very common assertion but does it stand up?

Fistly no where in the Quran does it state that the Earth is fixed and doesn't move. Nor does it state that the Earth is at the centre of the Universe. Actually if you take a lexical analyse of the Quran many verses speak of the Movement of the Earth. Read - http://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm undersection Ample vocabularies from my dictionaries regarding "Dah" and its circular shape and activities.

So what does the Quran say regarding the sun and moon and is it accurate? Well lets anaylse?

The Sun

Today Science tells us a lot about the Sun. We know it is floating in its own orbit around the Milky Way galaxy at a speed of 150mps. We know today that the sun rotates and we know that the sun produces its own light and that it will eventually extinguish and die. These are all recent advancements in the field of astronomy discovered with the use of telescopes and nuclear physics.

The Sun’s Orbit and Rotation

For a long time European philosophers and scientists believed that the Earth stood still in the centre of the universe and every other body including the sun moved around. In the west, this geocentric concept of the universe was prevalent right from the time of Ptolemy in the second century BC. The Qur’an however doesn’t contain any of these erroneous theories prevalent from the 2nd century to 15th century; it in facts speaks to the contrary as it speaks of the motion of the Earth in many verses (read -  http://www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm)  -  not once mentions the Earth at the centre of the universe with the sun orbiting around it.

In 1512, Nicholas Copernicus put forward his Heliocentric Theory of Planetary Motion, which asserted that the sun is motionless at the centre of the solar system with the planets revolving around it. In 1609, the German scientist Johannes Kepler published the ‘Astronomia Nova’. In this he concluded that not only do the planets move in elliptical orbits around the sun, they also rotate upon their axes at irregular speeds. With this knowledge it became possible for European scientists to explain correctly many of the mechanisms of the solar system including the sequence of night and day. After this it was the belief that the Sun was stationary at the centre of the solar system and didn’t rotate among astronomers right up until the 20th century. Dr Zakir Naik writes in his book ‘The Qur’an and Modern Science’ page 17:
“After these discoveries, it was thought that the Sun was stationary and did not rotate around its axis like the earth. I remember having studied this fallacy from geography books during my school days.”

It is now a well-established scientific fact that the Sun is not stationary, but is moving in an orbit around the centre of our Milky Way galaxy and is rotating. However only a couple of decades ago science taught the opposite that the Sun was stationary. Now let us see what the Qur’an said 1400 years ago before the telescope had even been invented.

The Qur’an declares the Sun is Floating in an Orbit

The Qur’an says:

“It is He who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) float each in its orbit.” [Surah 21:33]

Here the Qur’an clearly states that the Sun is floating in orbit. This is a truly remarkable statement found in a book from the 7th century. The Qur’an would have been wrong according to astronomers just a couple of decades ago. But we now know that the Qur’anic account of the Sun’s motion consistent with the modern Astronomy. I would also like to point to the fact that the Qur’an declares that the sun is floating, not riding on the back of a camel as you would expect from a 7th century nomad. Should we not ponder over the question: “What was the source of knowledge contained in the Qur’an?”

The Sun’s Individual Orbit in the Qur’an
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The Qur’an says:
“It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) floats along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Surah 36:40]

“The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed;” [Surah 55:5]


These verses mention an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion. The popular translation of the Qur’an by Muhammad Asad and many other translations describe the Suns individual orbit further in the following verse:

“And [they have a sign in] the sun: it runs in an orbit of its own [and] that is laid down by the will of the Almighty, the All-Knowing;” [Surah 36:38] [Muhammad Asad]

“The sun runs along on a course of its own. Such is the design of the Powerful, the Aware!” [Surah 36:38] [T.B.Irving]

“While the sun keeps revolving in its orbit. This is the dispensation of the mighty, all-knowing (God).” [Surah 36:38] [Ahmed Ali]

The Qur’an Declares the Sun is Rotating

The Qur’an says:

“It is He who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) float each in its orbit.” [Surah 21:33]

The Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahûn. The word yasbahûn is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the sun it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space. Most of the school textbooks have incorporated the fact that the sun rotates about its axis. The rotation of the sun about its own axis can be proved with the help of equipment that projects the image of the sun on the table top so that one can examine the image of the sun without being blinded. It is noticed that the sun has spots which complete a circular motion once every 25 days i.e. the sun takes approximately 25 days to rotate around its axis. It is quite remarkable that the Qur’an describes the Sun’s rotation.

The Sun creates its own light

The Sun is a massive thermonuclear reaction generating a tremendous amount of light and heat with a core temperature of around 10 million degrees.

The Sun creates its own light according to the Qur’an
The Qur’an says:

“It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory…” [Surah 10:5]

“Blessed is He who has placed in the sky great stars and placed therein a [burning] lamp…” [Surah 25:61]

“And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?” [Surah 71:16]


The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Qur’an clearly describes the Sun’s nature of creating its own light and heat.


THE SUN WILL EXTINGUISH AFTER A CERTAIN PERIOD ACCORDING TO THE QUR’AN

The light of the sun is due to a chemical process on its surface that has been taking place continuously for the past five billion years. It will come to an end at some point of time in the future when the sun will be totally extinguished leading to extinction of all life on earth. Scientists predict that the Sun’s hydrogen will start to become exhausted after 5 billion years. Regarding the impermanence of the sun’s existence the Qur’an says:

“And the Sun Runs its course For a period determined For it; that is The decree of (Him) The exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.” [Surah 36:38]

A similar message is conveyed in the Qur’an in 13:2, 35:13, 39:5 and 39:21. The Arabic word used here is mustaqarr, which means a place or time that is determined. Thus the Qur’an says that the sun runs on its course for a determined period time – meaning that it will end or extinguish.

Let Us Reflect

Again let us reflect on what we have discovered. We learnt that previously Science taught that the sun was stationary and didn’t rotate and only with a couple of decades ago modern astronomy incorporated that the Sun had a motion and was rotating. The Qur’an mentioned this 1400 years ago. We learnt of the Qur’ans description of the Sun’s individual orbit. We also learnt about how science tells us that the sun creates its own light and will eventually extinguish and end. But in the Qur’an it contained all this information 1400 years ago. This is truly an amazing miracle of the Qur’an. In this reflection I would like to point something out. In the Qur’an, there are a number of verses that refer to the sequence of the night and day, yet no mention is made of the movement of the Sun around the Earth. When it was considered that the most widely held view at the time was that the Earth was the centre of the Universe and that the sun moved around it, a human author of the Qur’an would not have failed to refer to the sun’s apparent movement around the Earth when discussing the sequence of the night and day.

“Have you not seen how Allah merges the night into the day and merges the day into the night.” [Surah 31:29]

In view of the state of knowledge at Muhammad’s day, it is inconceivable that the statements in the Qur’an which are connected with Astronomy could have been the work of a man, further highlighting the divine origin of the Qur’an.

The Moon
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Today Science tells us a lot about the moon. We know that it is floating in space in its individual orbit around the Earth and also rotates. We have also learnt that the light of the moon is reflected light. Let us now see what the Qur’an says about the moon.

The Moon is floating in an orbit according to the Qur’an

The Qur’an says:

“It is He who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) float each in its orbit.” [Surah 21:33]


Here the Qur’an states that the Sun is floating in its orbit. This matches perfectly with modern Science.


The Moon’s individual orbit in the Qur’an

The Qur’an says:

“It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) floats along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).” [Surah 36:40]

“The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed;” [Surah 55:5]


As explained earlier these verses mention an essential fact discovered by modern astronomy, i.e. the existence of the individual orbits of the Sun and the Moon, and their journey through space with their own motion.

The Moon Is rotating according to the Qur’an

The Qur’an says:

“It is He who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) float each in its orbit.” [Surah 21:33]

As explained earlier the Arabic word used in the above verse is yasbahûn. The word yasbahûn is derived from the word sabaha. It carries with it the idea of motion that comes from any moving body. If you use the word for a man on the ground, it would not mean that he is rolling but would mean he is walking or running. If you use the word for a man in water it would not mean that he is floating but would mean that he is swimming. Similarly, if you use the word yasbah for a celestial body such as the moon it would not mean that it is only flying through space but would mean that it is also rotating as it goes through space. The moon rotates around its axis in the same duration that it takes to revolve around the earth. It takes approximately 29½ days to complete one rotation. One cannot help but be amazed at the scientific accuracy of the Qur’anic verses.


The Moon will end according to the Qur’an

The Qur’an highlights that the moon has a limited existence in the following verse:

“…God subjected the Sun and the Moon: each one runs its course to an appointed term…” [Surah 13:2]

The Light of the Moon is reflected light

Before we explore what the Qur’an says about the nature of the moon I want to point our attention to what we find in the Tafsir (interpretation of) Ibn Kahir, a prominent and leading Muslim scholar in the 13th century, and what he says about WHY THE MOON HAS DIFFERENT emissions OF LIGHT - from looking like a crecent, to a half moon to a full moon and all different shapes in between:

"The sun rises each day and sets at the end of the day, giving one kind of light all the time, but it moves, rising and setting at different points in the summer and winter, thus making the days and nights longer or shorter alternatively according to the season. Its authority is in the daytime, for it is the heavenly body that dominates the day. As for the moon, Allah has decreed that it should pass through different phases. At the beginning of the month, the moon appears small when it rises. It gives off little light, then on the second night its light increases and it rises to a higher position, and the higher it rises the more light it gives -- even though it is reflected from the sun -- until it becomes full on the fourteenth night of the month." (http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=36&tid=43568)

"He created the night with its darkness and the day with its light, and they alternate without ceasing. And He created the sun with its shining light, and the moon with its reflected light. and He allotted their stages and gave them separate orbits in the heavens." (http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=41&tid=46752......First big paragraph) 

On the commentary of Surah 25:61 Ibn Kathir writes the following:
“(and a moon giving light.) means, shining and illuminated by the light of something else, different from the light of the sun, as Allah says...” (http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2384&Itemid=80)

So why would Ibn Kathir come up with this statement, many centuries before man discovered that the earth was spherical and that the moon does indeed reflect the sun's light?

This is because the Qur’an says:

“And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?” [Surah 71:16]

“It is He who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light and determined for it phases - that you may know the number of years and account [of time]. Allah has not created this except in truth. He details the signs for a people who know” [Surah 10:5]

“Blessed is He Who has made in the heaven mansions of stars and has placed therein a Lamp producing light and a moon that reflects light.” [Surah 25:61]


Here the Qur’an states that the light of the moon is reflected light or derived light. The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’an, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or aswahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’an as muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light. Again, the Qur’anic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’an, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’an recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.

Furthermore according to:
1.  Lisan Al-Arab dictionary [1] , Book 3, Pages 805, 808.
2.  Al-Muheet dictionary [2], Page 454.
3.  Al-Muajam Al-Waseet dictionary [3], Page 962.
4.  Al-Mawrid dictionary Arabic-English section [4], Page 1196.
5.  Arabic-English dictionary the Hans Wehr dictionary [6], Page 1008, 1009.

نور  (noor):  بيّن (bayyan)  reveal, reflect.

إستنار به (istanaara bihi): إستمدّ شعاعة  (istamadda shu'aaa'uh) was supplied by its light.

انار المكان (anaara al-makaan):  وضع فيه النور (wada'aa feehi al-noor)  Put light into it, or reflected light off of it.

نوّرتِ الشجرو انارت ايضاً (nawwarat al-shajarah wa anaarat aydan):  اخرجت نورها (akhrajat nooraha) The plant reflected the light off of itself, or it showed the light off of itself.  However, plants, as we know, are not a source of light.

انار النبت (anaara al-nabtu):  ظهر و حسن (tha-hara wa hasan)  the plant was revealed well from light.

نور (noor):  be revealed, to be lighted, to receive light.

So clearly, when the Qur’an Said that the sun is ضياء (diyaa'a), a source of light, and the moon a نورا , then clearly the moon:
1- Is reflecting to light, because it is إستمدّ شعاعة (was supplied by light), as this is the meaning of إستنار , which is derived from the root word نور  noor.
2- Is reflecting to light, because it is ظهر و حسن (was revealed well from light) , as this is the meaning of  انار , as in  انار النبت.
3- Is reflecting to light, because it receives light from the sun and it is lighted and revealed by it.

Also according to Quranic Arabic Corpus, a word by word linguistic analyse of the Qur’an, states that the Arabic word nūran used in Surah 10:5 and Surah 71:16 means reflected light. (http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=%2810:5:7%29)

This is why the 13th century scholar talked about the moon having reflected light. Also this is why the very accurate translation by Saheeh International reads as the following:

“And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?” [Saheeh International] [Surah 71:16]

“It is He who made the sun a shining light and the moon a derived light…” [Saheeh International] Surah 10:5]

And Muhammad Asad’s translation reads as the following:
“and has set up within them the moon as a light [reflected] and set up the sun as a [radiant] lamp?” [Muhammad Asad] [Surah 71:16]

“He it is who has made the sun a [source of] radiant light and the moon a light [reflected]…” [Muhammad Asad] [Surah 10:5]

“CONSIDER the sun and its radiant brightness, and the moon as it reflects the sun!”[Muhammad Asad] [Surah 91:1-2]

And that so many other translations read as follows:
“He it is Who has placed the sun for radiance and the moon for (reflected) light…” [T.B.Irving] [Surah 10:5]

“HE it is WHO made the sun radiate a brilliant light and the moon reflect a lustre…” [Sher Ali] [Surah 10:5]

“He it is who made the sun a source of radiant light and the moon a light [reflected]…” [Sayyid Qutb] [Surah 10:5]

“He it is Who has made the sun a radiant, illuminating light, and the moon a light reflected…” [Ali Unal] [Surah 10:5]

“He it is Who made the sun (radiate) brilliant light and the moon (reflect) a lustre…” [Amatul Rahman Omar] [Surah 10:5]

“He it is Who appointed the sun as a brilliant light and the moon as a reflected light” [Dr. Kamal Omar] [Surah 10:5]

“It is He Who made the Sun to be a shining light, and the Moon to be a reflected light…” [Bilal Muhammad][Surah 10:5]

“He is the One who made the sun to emit light, and the moon to reflect it…” [Progressive Muslims] [Surah 10:5]

“He is the One Who has made the sun a source of light and the moon to reflect the light…” [ Bijan Moeinian] [Surah 10:5]

“‘And He has set up within them the moon as a light (reflected), and has set up the sun as a lamp.” [Ali Unal] [Surah 71:16]

“And the moon as it follows it (reflecting its light)” [Ali Unal] [Surah 91:2]

“And the moon when it borrows light from it (- the sun)” [Amatul Rahman Omar] [Surah 91:2]

“And the Moon that borrows its light.” [Shabbir Ahmed] [Surah 91:2]

“And the moon that trails (and reflects) its light.” [Dr.Munir Munshey] [Surah 91:2]

“And the moon when she borrows light from him!” [Maulana Muhammad Ali] [Surah 91:2]

“Blessed is He Who has placed stars in the heaven and has set in it the glowing sun (that produces light) and the glittering moon (that reflects light).” [Amatul Rahman Omar] [Surah 25:61]

““Blessed is He Who has made in the heaven mansions of stars and has placed therein a Lamp producing light and a moon that reflects light.” [Sher Ali] [Surah 25:61]

In Summary the Qur’an accurately describes the true nature of the moon’s light well ahead before the discovery that the moon in fact reflects the light on the sun. How could anyone from the 7th century accurately describe the true nature of the moon?

“And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?” [Surah 71:16]



So as we can see the Qur'an accuretly desribes every aspect of the Sun, Moon and Earth

Hope this helps.






« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 11:42:37 AM by ThatMuslimGuy »

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 06:42:06 AM »
Assalamualykum.

  Excellent explanations by brother Egyptian and brother ThatMuslimGuy.

 According to the Quran earth is not still. Just tell them to show one single Ayah where Allah says Earth is still and everything the sun, the moon, the stars are revolving around it.

  There are certain Ayahs which indicate that earth is not still. It is to be noted that there are many ayahs in the Quran,which the old Tafsirs failed to translate completely or mistranslated them due to their limited knowledge back then.


Brother, please you must read the articles given bellow:



http://www.answering-christianity.com/motion_of_earth.htm

http://www.answering-christianity.com/function_of_mountains.htm

http://kaheel7.com/eng/index.php/miracles-for-kids/261-earth-rotation

http://www.quranmiracles.com/2011/03/all-afloat-in-orbits/

 
 Brother, we still don't know much about the seven heavens. It still remains a mystery. Allah said in the Quran:


 â€œWe adorned the nearest (lowest) heaven with lamps to be as an adornment” (Sûrat Al-Mulk -verse5)

Again Allah says:

 
"We have indeed adorned the lowest heaven with an ornament, the planets." (37:6)


So, Allah has adorned the lowest heaven with stars and planets. Rest six heavens are yet to be discovered. We don't know what is there in the rest six heavens. A time will Inshallah come when Scientists might become successful in discovering rest six heavens.


 And about, 71:15-16 lets just wait till brother Egyptian explains that to you.


Take Care.
 

 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 06:48:55 AM by FARHAN_UDDIN »

Offline Egyptian

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 11:35:18 AM »

The heavens are firmly held in place lest they move from where they are and fall on the earth.

holy quran 22:65   ...He withholds "alsamaa" from failing on the earth except by His leave: for God is Most Kind and Most Me rciful to man.

If we already proved that "alsamaa" could refer to heaven,sky or any part of each .then the meaning could be God protects the Earth from uncontrollable falling of space objects eg;  Meteoroids...


« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 11:38:03 AM by Egyptian »

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Quran on earth being fixed and center of the earth
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 03:47:54 PM »
Thanks for clearing that up everyone!!

That was perfect  ;)

Alhamdulilah

 

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