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Quran Morality and Moral Code, Laws & QA / Re: Trinity
« on: July 12, 2014, 11:19:45 AM »
^Problem with believing in God appearing as son of God on earth and holy spirit being part of 'triune oneness' was never taught in 7 Laws by gentile prophet Noah nor by 10 Laws Israeltie prophets.

Only the Christian Romans believe in such Triune-Oneness God. Something really new and NEVER BEEN heard before. Read Deuteronomy 13 where God reminds the Israelites about the coming of new/unheard God that certainly refer to Triune Oneness God. Deut 13 can not be referring to idol God as idol worshiping is not new and have been heard before during the time of prophet Abraham (as).

« on: July 12, 2014, 11:11:30 AM »
Romans Christians interpret Aramaic teachings wrongly without Jewish Nasoreans/Ebionites scholars guiding them. Children of Israel never view Holy Spirit as God.

Also, No Israelites anticipate the coming of God appearing on earth in the form of "son of man". But Romans Christians somehow read Israelite scriptures out of context.

thats the problem with Pauline Christians. Oldest manuscript of Acts are from 3rd century. And they can never find a compiled "Greek NT" before 4th century that consist of all books. All of those torn pieces of pages are found separately which means authored by unknown Roman scribes at different locations.

So basically their book that support Pauline doctrine do not exist as a single corpus, thus showing their teachings were never inspired but rather man made to fit the Roman customs like eating pork and drinking wine.


Allah DID perfect Islam and he made it clear that the Quran is the only source of law. Sunni's and shia's are not Muslims. They are disbelievers. They are not following Allah's perfected religion which states that the Quran is the only source of law.

I think you need to study back how Islam propagate to many parts of the world since 7th century. And recheck all those parts of the world that receive the message of Islam since 7th century.  You will see all are following Quran with sunnah.

Also if you look into China's Muslim region that receive Islam in 7th century, they are of sunnis .

Islam spread to China,India Malay Archipealogo in 7th century through proclamation about One God.

Islam spread to Europe through expansion of Islamic empire . As Christian nations of those time were constantly hostile to Islamic nation as they try to win back Jerusalem.

One shall read from Isaiah 41 till end 42. And when one reaches Isaiah 42:1, it will be clear that it can not prophecy Jesus due to the fact that Holy Spirit descent over a Servant of God. As that would mean Jesus need to exist in flesh without Holy Spirit to begin with.

If we read Isaiah 42:1. God said "I have put my spirit UPON/AGAINST/OVER him (the hebrew word being used does not indicate my spirit WITHIN/BORN WITH him NOR does it say TO CREATE FLESH of him):... he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.."

Which befits prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as after receiving divine guidance of Holy Spirit ; he himself spread the religion of One God to gentiles (other than Children of Israel). Jews have already worship One God and righteous Jews anticipated the coming of Holy One prophesied in Isaiah 41 & 42.

Thus it is not Jesus (pbuh) as he did not preached to Gentiles and as mentioned in Isaiah 42:1 , God placed Holy Spirit onto His servant . Would  not this simply mean that Jesus needed to exist without Holy Spirit first and God later lets the Holy Spirit descend down to him inside the womb of Mary? 

BUT the most important fact about the prophecy in Isaiah 42 is that Descendant of Ishmael will rejoice and uphold God's Law. Pauline Christians have abandon God's Law for Paul believe that God's Law has ended upon ascend of Jesus to heaven. Thus Paul created new Laws of his own specifically for the Romans.

So we can conclude that Jesus (even with inclusion of Paul) can never fulfill Isaiah 41 & 42.


Lastly, the third way people can respond to the findings of this academic research is Jesus. He says about himself literally, “I am the way and the truth and the life.”12 He is the answer to the prayer Muslims are to perform five times every day, saying: ‘Show us the straight way, the way of those on whom you have bestowed your Grace…’ Jesus did not say, ‘I am showing you the way into Christianity.’ He simply says, ‘I am the way.’ Eternal life in paradise comes from following him alone. It happens by grace, by an undeserved favour. Jesus wants us to turn around from our old ways and put our faith in him and what he has done for us on the cross. He does not ask people to abandon the good aspects of their culture or to embrace the sinful parts of a Western lifestyle. God will give us the power to be like Jesus in whatever situation we find ourselves in.

Jesus is not only the way but he is also the living word of God. The Quran calls him uniquely, ‘Kalimatullah’ – ‘The Word of God’ (Surah 4:171; cf. Revelation 19:13 & John 1); it is identical with God. The Bible is about Jesus. Many articles have been written to show that it is still trustworthy.13 However, the standard and definition by which the Holy Scriptures of the people of the Book has been revealed and preserved is different from the one given hundreds of years later by Muslims. Whoever examines the Bible on its own terms, praying earnestly and with an open heart for guidance will be blessed. I invite you to do so through a simple e-mail correspondence course. Please contact me to get the first of six lessons.

What are Christian missionaries trying to achieve? lol. After pointing out about variants of Quran, which Muslims themselves have mention about their existence  in hadith. They attack the preservation of Quran and invite to embrace 'inspired Bible'. Even Christians can't claim their bible as preserved but rather at best 'inspired'.

And what do they have?
They have torn greek fragments which are accounts of Jesus life, and its well known that those greek made up stories were never verified by Jesus himself; to be legit.  Why can't Holy Spirit preserve Logia of Jesus (pure sayings of Jesus) in Aramaic?

here are some Christians very own admission:

According to the unquestioned tradition of the Christian Fathers, which has always been accepted by the Church, the primary nucleus of our canonical gospels was not a life of Jesus at all, but a collection of the Logia, oracles, or sayings, the Logia Kuriaka, which were written down in Hebrew or Aramaic, by one Matthew.

“The differences among the manuscripts have become great, either through the negligence of some copyists or through the perverse audacity of others; they either neglect to check over what they have transcribed, or, in the process of checking, they make additions or deletions as they please.” Origen, early church father 3rd century in “Commentary on Matthew.”

Compare with 4th century codexes Sinaiticus or Vatinacus. You will be surprise how Holy Spirit inside the scribes fail to prevent them from changing words of God ever since the very beginning.

Back to the topic;

The variants in words and location were in fact mention in hadith, albeit not all. The companions of prophet knew about issues that might arise in future if the text variants are allowed to be widely distributed. Thus those variants were then destroyed and written over with the Uthmanic text that we have today.

So from Christian missionaries point of view, their only claim right now is to either say the known-variant Quran  as the word of God or Uthman's variant as word of God. But then again, we have the act of filtering pre-Uthman Qurans as recorded in hadith. In other words companions have read chapter by chapter and recognize where the location of those word variants.

first they need to proof their claim by showing such 'variation' shall there exist any, and the variation shall be found in  any oldest copy of uthman not a later copy, centuries later.

if the oldest copy of Uthman's is same to that of current copy, then the issue of loss words shall not arise


[Mention, O Muhammad], when the wife of 'Imran said, "My Lord, indeed I have pledged to You what is in my womb, consecrated [for Your service], so accept this from me. Indeed, You are the Hearing, the Knowing."

But when she delivered her, she said, "My Lord, I have delivered a female." And Allah was most knowing of what she delivered, "And the male is not like the female. And I have named her Mary, and I seek refuge for her in You and [for] her descendants from Satan, the expelled [from the mercy of Allah ]."

So her Lord accepted her with good acceptance and caused her to grow in a good manner and put her in the care of Zechariah. Every time Zechariah entered upon her in the prayer chamber, he found with her provision. He said, "O Mary, from where is this [coming] to you?" She said, "It is from Allah . Indeed, Allah provides for whom He wills without account."  (Quran 3:34-37)


By reading the verses above one should be able to deduce wife of Imran named her daughter Mary, and Mary was under the care of Zecharia a.s.

As it clearly states that Mary is living in the time Zecharia a.s

So when one reaches the verse 19:28,  an issue of mistaken identity doesn't appear at all . The only thing that will cause one to ponder is why the people address her sister of Aaron? Were they calling her with a title sister of prophet Aaron or prophet Moses? Or sister of a person named Aaron?


Some fact, wife of Imran named her daughter Mary based on name of past pious people.

may be this is due to the test from Allah onto Muslims of akhir zaman. The love for wealth thus disregard ummah

Depends on how that atheist view the value of their life

Well if the Atheist have a child girl. Say her beloved one was raped and killed. Nothing he/she can do about it except mourn after her death.

And say God being 'merciful' and not judge the wrongdoings of humans in afterlife. Can the atheist accept this version of merciful God?

In other words, you can do anything you like before death on earth. Trangress any limits as long as you are smart and not be caught, as God is merciful.

well ask them to name other planet filled with humans. why earth is exceptional as compared to other heavenly planets.

This is a link of reference about shape of universe from NASA (

Almighty God said He is the One that controls the expansive universe. That's why if we search for facts on the final stage of expansion (or End of Days@Big Crunch). We can't find any possibilities of it to happen. Thus the argument of Universe expanding-forever remains true for human as human will never know when it will end.

But ,  Almighty God said,

"And it is We who have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it."
(The Qur'an, 51:47)

"Verily, the Hour is surely coming. But I will to keep it hidden, that every soul may be rewarded for that which it strives (to achieve)." [The Qur'an 20:15]

Almighty God explanation on end of days about what will happen to our flat universe.

The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a [written] sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. [That is] a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it. (The Qur'an, 21:104)

Indeed , this is a great verse from the Divine Creator reminding us to always prepare before the coming of Judgement Day.

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