Author Topic: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.  (Read 39556 times)

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Offline shaad

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2017, 05:46:40 PM »
NWO cleanse, sorry for being rude yesterday by the way....

Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2017, 12:30:31 PM »
NWO cleanse, you said that MuslimDude's points are already dealt with in the documentary then it won't be hard for you refute it by yourself right? I remember you implied that this website is intellectually stagnant, so it would be easy for an intellectually superior being like you to refute those points....

"Mekka" root appears once in the Quran at 48:24. Some assert that 48:24 was altered from "Bekka" (denoting Petra) to "Mekka" (denoting Mecca) by politicians and other interested parties; some assert that "Mekka" means "destruction"; others believe that it indeed denotes a place called Mecca but not the Meecca known today, but some other place in northern Arabia.

And of course those who adhere to the Abbasid narrative (the hadith, majority of this forum) will believe that this word "Mekka" denotes today's Mecca. This is false, but you are free to double think if you feel it makes your life more comfortable.

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2017, 12:45:26 PM »
Agh,it all resorts to the common Quranist argument

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/questions_that_the_quranites_have_no_good_logical_responses_to


Even Your own Quranists

[48:24] He is the One who withheld their hands of aggression against you, and withheld your hands of aggression against them in the valley of Mecca, after He had granted you victory over them. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

(Rashad Khalifa translation)


And Rashad Khalifa translated most of it accurately,so you're also denying your own Quranist theory.

Issue is,you're making up arguments,and not backing them up,my point still stands if Muhammad SAW was from Petra there would've been some literature mentioning him out of the Quran in Petra since Muhammad SAW would've been a big influence to the Petrans.

Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2017, 01:32:54 PM »
Agh,it all resorts to the common Quranist argument

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/questions_that_the_quranites_have_no_good_logical_responses_to


Even Your own Quranists

[48:24] He is the One who withheld their hands of aggression against you, and withheld your hands of aggression against them in the valley of Mecca, after He had granted you victory over them. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

(Rashad Khalifa translation)


And Rashad Khalifa translated most of it accurately,so you're also denying your own Quranist theory.

Issue is,you're making up arguments,and not backing them up,my point still stands if Muhammad SAW was from Petra there would've been some literature mentioning him out of the Quran in Petra since Muhammad SAW would've been a big influence to the Petrans.

Forget about black boxes and gymnastics for a second, I have a mental exercise for shaad, who claims this forum isn't intellectually stagnant: there are numerous problems and assumed conclusions in the above quoted comment, point some out and predict the trajectory of my reply.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

Offline shaad

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2017, 06:11:41 PM »
NWO cleanse, you claim about politicians changing the name from Bekka to Mecca and stuff....where are the proofs for that?  As far as AMuslimDude's reply is concerned, well if i were you i would have used the same response to him but i've got nothing to back it up....if you could bring some proofs it would be great for us....

Offline shaad

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2017, 06:22:52 PM »
NWO cleanse, Concerning the meaning of "Makka", i can see that Osama already responded to you a you said you'll have to consult an expert to check his claim....we'll have to wait for you i guess

Offline shaad

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2017, 06:24:47 PM »
Agh,it all resorts to the common Quranist argument

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/questions_that_the_quranites_have_no_good_logical_responses_to


Even Your own Quranists

[48:24] He is the One who withheld their hands of aggression against you, and withheld your hands of aggression against them in the valley of Mecca, after He had granted you victory over them. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

(Rashad Khalifa translation)


And Rashad Khalifa translated most of it accurately,so you're also denying your own Quranist theory.

Issue is,you're making up arguments,and not backing them up,my point still stands if Muhammad SAW was from Petra there would've been some literature mentioning him out of the Quran in Petra since Muhammad SAW would've been a big influence to the Petrans.

Forget about black boxes and gymnastics for a second, I have a mental exercise for shaad, who claims this forum isn't intellectually stagnant: there are numerous problems and assumed conclusions in the above quoted comment, point some out and predict the trajectory of my reply.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

Already said, i would have used the same response....

Offline Albarra

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2017, 10:54:10 PM »
NWO cleanse, Concerning the meaning of "Makka", i can see that Osama already responded to you a you said you'll have to consult an expert to check his claim....we'll have to wait for you i guess

Obviously ---  -

Hey brother Osama, can you give me a hand? We're still refuting this crazy guy about Muhammad's birth.


Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #113 on: November 14, 2017, 04:54:48 AM »
Agh,Osama already refuted this fool,all thats left is to ban him,he isnt even adressing MY points,he's just calling them weak and "mental gymnastics" even though my points are simple and straightforward,where is the PROOF?!

I provided my maps,proof,etc,and literature,he didn't so I'm waiting for a rational response with Proof.

Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #114 on: November 14, 2017, 07:15:21 AM »
Agh,it all resorts to the common Quranist argument

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/questions_that_the_quranites_have_no_good_logical_responses_to


Even Your own Quranists

[48:24] He is the One who withheld their hands of aggression against you, and withheld your hands of aggression against them in the valley of Mecca, after He had granted you victory over them. GOD is Seer of everything you do.

(Rashad Khalifa translation)


And Rashad Khalifa translated most of it accurately,so you're also denying your own Quranist theory.

Issue is,you're making up arguments,and not backing them up,my point still stands if Muhammad SAW was from Petra there would've been some literature mentioning him out of the Quran in Petra since Muhammad SAW would've been a big influence to the Petrans.

Forget about black boxes and gymnastics for a second, I have a mental exercise for shaad, who claims this forum isn't intellectually stagnant: there are numerous problems and assumed conclusions in the above quoted comment, point some out and predict the trajectory of my reply.

It doesn't have to be perfect.

Already said, i would have used the same response....

He claimed that I was affiliated with Rashad Khalifa, just because I reject the Abbasid narrative as canonical like Rashad - this is not true. I don't believe in the no.19 miracle, it's choppy.

Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #115 on: November 14, 2017, 07:22:47 AM »
Agh,Osama already refuted this fool,all thats left is to ban him,he isnt even adressing MY points,he's just calling them weak and "mental gymnastics" even though my points are simple and straightforward,where is the PROOF?!

I provided my maps,proof,etc,and literature,he didn't so I'm waiting for a rational response with Proof.

Peace.

I didn't respond because your commend was stupid. Your maps are very much post-Islamic and digitized too, which is explicit misinformation. And Ptolemy did not note Mecca on his maps, how many times did I say it - Makoraba on Ptolemy's maps are inland and so it is not the same place as Mecca which is on the edge of the hejaz. Read: https://www.academia.edu/4735458/Suggested_Solutions_for_Issues_Concerning_The_Location_of_Mecca_in_Ptolemys_Geography

Please do not comment on this topic further, I do not wish to converse with you anymore. Thank you.

Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #116 on: November 14, 2017, 07:26:08 AM »
p.s. I will respond if your comment is well-researched, else assume that I am ignoring you. Peace.

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #117 on: November 14, 2017, 07:48:24 AM »
Did Abraham build Petra?

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #118 on: November 14, 2017, 08:03:15 AM »
And you literally went from one thing,to something else,stay on point,you refuted one argument of mine,but what about there being literally no mention of Petra in the Quran explicitly,and there being no External literature mentioning Muhammad SAW,ALL of the places the Quran mentions that is related to Muhammad SAW are only near Mecca,none near Petra,

For example

Medina;"And among those around you of the bedouins are hypocrites, and [also] from the people of Madinah. They have become accustomed to hypocrisy. You, [O Muhammad], do not know them, [but] We know them. We will punish them twice [in this world]; then they will be returned to a great punishment."(9:101)

Badr:" And already had Allah given you victory at [the battle of] Badr while you were few in number. Then fear Allah ; perhaps you will be grateful."(3:123)

Now you'll resort to the Badr in amman,but this is problematic.

It isnt a valley,
Remember ye were on the hither side of the valley, and they on the farther side, and the caravan on lower ground than ye. Even if ye had made a mutual appointment to meet, ye would certainly have failed in the appointment: But (thus ye met), that Allah might accomplish a matter . For to Allah do all questions go back (for decision). ([Quran 8:42])   

The Quran describes Badr as a valley,whereas the badr in Jordan is not like a valley,its more like a desert Oasis,and nor was there any Muslim battle recorded there in any petran pre-islamic literature,infact not even Muhammad SAW was recorded,but somehow you came up with the claim "Muhammad SAW in Petra" even though his name is not present in any Pre-Islamic Petran Literature.


Hunayn:Assuredly Allah did help you in many battle-fields and on the day of Hunain: Behold! your great numbers elated you, but they availed you naught: the land, for all that it is wide, did constrain you, and ye turned back in retreat.
But Allah did pour His calm on the Messenger and on the Believers, and sent down forces which ye saw not: He punished the Unbelievers; thus doth He reward those without Faith.
[Quran 9:25]

Behold! they came on you from above you and from below you, and behold, the eyes became dim and the hearts gaped up to the throats, and ye imagined various (vain) thoughts about Allah! In that situation were the Believers tried: they were shaken as by a tremendous shaking. And behold! The Hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease (even) say: "Allah and His Messenger promised us nothing but delusion!" Behold! A party among them said: "Ye men of Yathrib! ye cannot stand (the attack)! therefore go back!" And a band of them ask for leave of Muhammad, saying, "Truly our houses are bare and exposed," though they were not exposed they intended nothing but to run away. And if an entry had been effected to them from the sides of the (city), and they had been incited to sedition, they would certainly have brought it to pass, with none but a brief delay! ... They think that the Confederates have not withdrawn; and if the Confederates should come (again), they would wish they were in the deserts (wandering) among the Bedouins, and seeking news about you (from a safe distance); and if they were in your midst, they would fight but little... When the Believers saw the Confederate forces, they said: "This is what Allah and his Messenger had promised us, and Allah and His Messenger told us what was true." And it only added to their faith and their zeal in obedience. [Quran 33:10–22)



So tell me are you still going to deny?


Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.
« Reply #119 on: November 14, 2017, 08:18:22 AM »
And Historically Abraham never built Petra
It was there even before Abraham in 2010 BC

and Paran is The region of hijaz today and the bible Says

Then God opened her [Hagar's] eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. (Genesis 21:19-22)


So how come?


and also
King David spent some time in the wilderness of Paran after Samuel died (1 Samuel 25:1).
I wonder what was King David doing there?(Pilgrimage)

And since Petra wasn't built by Abraham nor is it mentioned like that in the Quran,I wonder who built the Kaaba?

"Behold!  We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House [That is the Kaaba that he built], (Saying):  'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer).  And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;  (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)


Now Petra has no foundations like the Kaaba,or the black stone,Infact the Ka'ba is explicitly mentioned in the Quran

“God has made the Kaba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security, Hajj, and 'Umrah (pilgrimage) for mankind...” (Quran 5:97)

Did God DECEIVE THE WHOLE OF MANKIND? by letting Man change prayer directions,if you really do believe so? then you must be deluded,and your claim is an INSULT to Allah SWT

And you can't make the excuse of Petra,Petra is not a cubic building, While the Quran al Ka'aba quite literally means THE CUBE in arabic,this cannot be mentioning anything other than the Ka'aba of Mecca,since thats the only significant place in Islamic literature,in the Quran which is CUBIC,

So there,your claim has been Quranically debunked,even if you were a Quranist,you'll instantly know Petra wasnt the Qiblah,the Cube(or Al Kaaba in arabic) was the Qibla,according to the Quran.

 

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