Author Topic: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30  (Read 3074 times)

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Offline adilriaz123

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Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« on: March 14, 2017, 01:56:08 PM »
Asalam ul laykum brothers and sisters, I was wondering in regards to this page I came across that was written by the Answering-Islam team. It is regards to the Quran 9:30 "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is the saying from their mouth; (In this) they are intimate; what the Unbelievers of the old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the truth. "

Answering islam team claims that there were no such Jews who believed that Uzair as was son of Allah swt, that the claim that there were a group of jews in Yemen who called Uzair as son of Allah swt is a false claim because Ibn Hazm lived during 9th or 10th century.

they also claim this:

"The Encylopedia Judaica article cited by the “Islamic Awareness” team continues:

An allusion to the figure of Ezra as the apostle of the messiah is found in a tale which is widespread among the Jews of Yemen, according to which Ezra requested that they emigrate to Erez Israel, and because they did not, he cursed them. Yemenite Jews have therefore refrained from naming their children Ezra."

Also they claim that just because the Jews did not dispute it isn't a good argument since they were already having problems of their own.

Also they claim that the verse says "THE JEWS" not "SOME JEWS"

I am wondering, did Brother Osama or anyone else refute this. If so, plz I would like the link to the page, I would like to use it when necessary.

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 02:09:36 PM »
actually Yemeni Jews believed that Ezra was the son of god
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Contrad/External/ezra.html

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 05:49:59 PM »
Jazakallah brother, but i think this page that answering islam team made was in response to the page of islamic awareness. There could also be the possibility that the reason the verse says "The Jews" is because the jews in Hijaz were indeed making perversion since they were living a kin to idolater arabs that they decided to make ezra son of god because of their love for him. But allah swt knows best, would love to have good rebuttal to this.  Im sure someone must of had addressed this.


Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2017, 02:38:36 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

Ezra was an exceptional "son of GOD", so much that he was taken up to Heaven without dying according to the Jewish sources:

www.answering-christianity.com/quran/qb005.htm

Also, see how Ezra is linked to the Isaiah 9:6 prophecy.  Everything you need is in this article, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 08:41:14 PM »
Some of the detail seems should be more researched. As we know it is evident that christians worship jesus and literal son of god, when allah swt equated ezra to the same meaning of son of god as jesus. That means they took it literally. I think we should look more into the jews that lived among the arabs in the regions and what they exactly practiced maybe we can find a more relative answer.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 08:59:20 PM »
Asalam ul laykum, In regards to Isaiah 9:6 brother osama i believe u have something there. I was trying to understand the context of the verse and i ran into this.

Isaiah 10:

The Remnant of Israel
20 In that day the remnant of Israel,
    the survivors of Jacob,
will no longer rely on him
    who struck them down
but will truly rely on the Lord,
    the Holy One of Israel.
21 A remnant will return, a remnant of Jacob
    will return to the Mighty God.
22 Though your people be like the sand by the sea, Israel,
    only a remnant will return.
Destruction has been decreed,
    overwhelming and righteous.
23 The Lord, the Lord Almighty, will carry out
    the destruction decreed upon the whole land.
24 Therefore this is what the Lord, the Lord Almighty, says:

“My people who live in Zion,
    do not be afraid of the Assyrians,
who beat you with a rod
    and lift up a club against you, as Egypt did.

With context of both isaiah 9 and 10, with both chapters i can see a reason why the jews at that time could of had made that serious mistake. But i wonder when did they correct this mistake, since today they do not regard ezra as son of god.

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2017, 05:51:39 PM »
The title of son of God (servant of God ) is used by the Jews for any pious person as is evident according to Encyclopedia of Judaism which states that the title of son of God is attributed by the Jews "to any one whose piety has placed him in a filial relation to God (see Wisdom ii. 13, 16, 18; v. 5, where "the sons of God" are identical with "the saints"; comp. Ecclus. [Sirach] iv. 10). It is through such personal relations that the individual becomes conscious of God's fatherhood."[28] Jews consider Ezra among the pious.

Wikipedia

So it was not something new for the jews.

Secondly, the identification of Prophet Uzair a.s is also controversial.He could be the Azariya of jews as well

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2017, 11:03:10 PM »
Brother ur not understanding the verse of the Quran, when mentioned jesus as Son of God and equating that to jew's Ezra, it means that Jews believed that Ezra was literal son of God same as how christians think. However, as mentioned in earlier post it can be possible that this could be directed towards the jews of the arabia who were influenced by polytheist arabs and could have regarded Ezra as son of God. Or it could just mean that they showed to much love to Ezra to the point it would be no different then not professing that Ezra is Son of God by mouth but in his love they would go to far and believe that in their heart. As allah swt says he is the Knower of what they conciel in their hearts.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2017, 11:17:29 PM »
Yes, brother i think the quran when talking about Uzair is actually mentioning Azariya. While doing some digging, i found this

Viviane Comerro, Professeur in Islamic literature at INALCO, considers the possibility of Quranic Uzair not being Ezra but Azariah instead, relying on Ibn Qutaybah, and identifying a confusion committed by Muslim exegetes.[clarification needed] She declares : "There is, from muslim traditionalists, a confusion between two distinct characters, Ezra ['Azrà] et Azariah ['Azarya(h)](...) Thus, it is possible that the quranic vocable Uzayr could find its origin in Azariah's one." [32]

The deuterocanonical version of the book of Daniel confirms this hypothesis.[citation needed] The Theodotion's version, used by Catholics and Orthodox Christians contains the Prayer of Azariah, an apocryphal prayer added by Hellenistic rabbis in the Septuagint version of the book of Daniel, which curiously[original research?] mentions Abednego by his other name, Azariah, rather than Abednego[33] which is used in the whole chapter 3 of the Hebrew and Protestant version, without any mention of the name "Azariah" in this chapter.[34] This mention precedes the appearance of an angel qualified by Nebuchadnezzar as having the form of the "son of god".[35][original research?] Legends from Jewish communities of Arabia which were using the Septuagint version of the Book of Daniel made the confusion between the fourth character, the angel who is like the son of god, and Azariah himself, as confirmed by H. Schwarzbaum.[36] In this perspective, the Quranic narrator seems to blame the Jews who believed in such a legend and who considered Azariah as the son of God, legend which finds its origin in a confusion due to an addition in the original biblical corpus by the rabbis who elaborated the Septuagint.[citation needed]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzair


As my hypothesis was that it could be that the arabian jews became confused and made uzair into son of God. Not the son of God which normally means pious person, but the christian kind. This makes perfect sense, since this was addressing to the jews of arabia.

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2017, 09:41:16 AM »
Not All the Christians believe that Prophet Isa a.s is the son of God (nontrinatarianism), and so not all the Jews consider Prophet Uzair a.s as the son of God...(the matter of identity should be considered as well)


Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Answering-Islam claim in regards to verse Quran 9:30
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2017, 11:02:04 AM »
Yes, I did address what you are pointing out, it is important to note that the message of Islam started out in arabia. Thus that verse was referring to the jews of Arabia, particularly the Jews of Hejaz. from the source I pointed out earlier, it seems that the Hejazi jews became confused due to the additional laws that Hellenistic jews created that made Azariya to be Son of God in literal sense. Which also explains why they never objected to this notion even though they had plenty of time and the fact that among the scholars of the jews who converted the individual shahabi Abdullah ibn Salam(ra) could have pointed this out, BUT HE DIDN'T. which only reinforces the rhetoric that indeed due to the additional bible corpus pages created by Hellenistic jews the Hejazi jews became confused and regarded NOT ezra but Azariya as Son of God. Also the many verses in quran pointing out the discrepancies of the Bible only proves further this rhetoric.


 

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