Author Topic: Was Jesus really equal to God?  (Read 3767 times)

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Offline Abdullah Tahmeed

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Was Jesus really equal to God?
« on: April 23, 2015, 06:58:35 AM »
John 5:

16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jewish leaders began to persecute him. 17 In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.” 18 For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25 Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

Offline submit

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Re: Was Jesus really equal to God?
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2015, 10:10:43 AM »
it is quite established that 1st God; Jesus needed support from the other 2 Gods. When the Word/Son is on earth under the form of Jesus, he needed the support of 2nd God that is Holy Spirit to perform miracles inside the body of a human.

And when the Word/Son returns to the heaven, he needed support from the 3rd God Father by resting under the right hand of Father until the time is needed to return for 2nd coming. Despite resting quite close to Father, Son will still not have knowledge of the Hour.

but under a divine organization called Godhead, all 3 Gods are equal and none outranks each other.

Offline theydontreadthebible

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Re: Was Jesus really equal to God?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2015, 01:23:35 PM »
it is quite established that 1st God; Jesus needed support from the other 2 Gods. When the Word/Son is on earth under the form of Jesus, he needed the support of 2nd God that is Holy Spirit to perform miracles inside the body of a human.

And when the Word/Son returns to the heaven, he needed support from the 3rd God Father by resting under the right hand of Father until the time is needed to return for 2nd coming. Despite resting quite close to Father, Son will still not have knowledge of the Hour.

but under a divine organization called Godhead, all 3 Gods are equal and none outranks each other.

It's quite established that the bible says:

1 timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

issiah 44:6
Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

issiah 43:11
I, I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior.

James 2:19
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

deuteronomy 6:4
“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Mark 12:29
Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

john 14:10
Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.

Matthew 4:10
Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’”

Matthew 10:20
For it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

john 12:44-45
And Jesus cried out and said, “Whoever believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me. And whoever sees me sees him who sent me.

mark 2:7
“Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

---------------------------- read this too --------------------------

Psalm 118:8
It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man.

Psalm 146:3
Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation.

---

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

clearly, christ jesus is a man, and it's better to take refuge and trust The God who is ONE. Than trust 3 gods, which one is the god and the other 2 HIS CREATION.

Bible in hebrew and greek never talks about jesus SON OF GOD but JESUS son of MAN.
Every time son of god is used, the greek word is exactly the same for SERVANT... Are you 100% sure it's not translated wrongly?

For jesus is created to do gods work and beat anti christ.
For the spirit is created to do gods work and enlighten, save, kill, destroy, strengthen, love, .. etc(you get the point).

So who stands out? God or all? God is not part of a trinity... God is the creator of all angels, demons, humans, heavens, etc..
« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 04:03:45 PM by theydontreadthebible »

Offline Tahmeed

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Re: Was Jesus really equal to God?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 02:06:46 PM »
Assalamu alaikum,

As I see, dear brothers, the following one is the most impotant verse that thorouly proves that the Father is the One True God.
This is my favorite verse in the NT!!!

(Here, Jesus is praying to the Father on the night of his arrest)
[John 17:3] And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the Only True God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

As we know, the gospel of John is the least corrupted one among the four gospels!

And if this verse doesn't prove that Jesus is not God, that by no verse in the world you can convince the trinitians to be monotheists!

And brothers, I have a question here. How do we convince Jehovah's witnesses? They don't believe in Trinity, but they do believe that Jesus is the begotten son of God (Nauzubillah). How do we make them undrestand?

JajakAllahu khair,
Sadat Tabmeed

Offline theydontreadthebible

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Re: Was Jesus really equal to God?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 02:58:01 PM »
Very easy, humans only have children.
They believe God is a spirit.
Spirits don't mate or beget children.

And in the bible actually God is every believers Father!

And also if I'm not mistaken, (I have to rely on my memory), only an appostle is saying that jesus is the begotten son and some jews. But jesus never says himsefl I'm the only begotten son of God.(If so, Adam too, so there are 2 begotten sons)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 03:00:46 PM by theydontreadthebible »

Offline submit

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Re: Was Jesus really equal to God?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2015, 06:33:47 AM »

And brothers, I have a question here. How do we convince Jehovah's witnesses? They don't believe in Trinity, but they do believe that Jesus is the begotten son of God (Nauzubillah). How do we make them undrestand?

JajakAllahu khair,
Sadat Tabmeed

well they believe in the manifestation of the spirit and wisdom of God inside humans. Similar to Ahmadiya 'Muslims'. Jehovah witness do not see manifestation of spirit of God inside human as making that human = God. But rather chosen son of God.

While Trinity view the concept of manifestation a spirit of God creating a new human makes that human = God.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2015, 06:35:21 AM by submit »

 

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