Answering Christianity Research Center

Quote from: mendacium remedium on May 16, 2013, 05:18:31 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhEzWkYiss

I recommend watching the brothers video. I naturally disagree with him , but would like Brother Osama to make a comment when he gets time.

As'salamu Alaikum dear Brother,

I went to that guy's page, and posted two comments where I showed him where he was wrong.  Seconds later, he removed my two posts and blocked me, despite the fact that I spoke properly to him.  At minute 3:50 of his video, he refutes himself by admitting that the Glorious Quran does indeed contain Scientific Notions and Miracles in It.  He then goes on to speak general talk without giving single specific example.  He's also wrong for claiming that we have reduced the Holy Quran to a science book.  Pointing out the Miracles of the Glorious Quran has nothing to do with the Moral Code and Law of the Holy Quran. 

Open Challenge: 

I challenge any breathing creation on the face of this earth to refute the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran!  Don't give me general talk and nonsense.  Give me technical and specific answers.  Him blocking me and removing my posts, while me giving him a few examples and challenges to answer, such as the following from the 100s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles that were already found clearly shows that he has nothing:

The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran.  Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
 
The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.

At this stage that we've reached, it has become quite absurd to even question that the Glorious Quran is Miraculous.  Yet, we find people like him speaking nonsense without even giving a single example to back anything up.

Him blocking me proves that the clown is quite familiar with my website.  Tell him to come here to debate me.  He won't get blocked.  I only block those who either drown text with 10s of pages of inflamatory absurdities to avoid answering the point directly and to drown the point when he gets cornerned and refuted, as I did with one shia polythiest and idol-worshiping loser, and I also did it with one Muslim member who unfortunately was constantly being disrespectful to everyone on this board, and has become a big burden on me to monitor, contain and maintain (by me going into his posts and modify them).  I was and am far too busy for his silly games. Otherwise, BRING IT ON!  This is why I made this blog.  I am not scared of any website or any author.  Islam will smash them all!

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Ya Akhi,

Although we should not backbite in Islam, i think there are two extremes. For instance, some brothers claim a lot of the Quran is a scientific miracle, and others claim not a single verse is.

Surely as the Quran says, we are the nation of the middle way? We need to basically only agree with 100% established science, and nothing less? But not disregard the verses that are pertaining to science.

And i agree. My faith was a little shaky yesterday after being told that the Quran has not a single scientific miracle -falsely.

So Allah swt tells us each stage of a human in the womb..but apparently that's just rhetoric ? I disagree.

There's another video i have, and this one is actually brilliant in terms of the embrology of the Quran(some parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuAfmJ3LS4s

Jazakallah!


Here was a message i sent:

First of all , let me acknowledge on what i do agree with the respected speaker in the video.

1. The Quran is not a book of science, it is not there to replace science text-books and filled with equations. The Quran is a guidance to mankind.

2. Science is everchanging and fluid, one day it can say one thing, the next something else.

3. People deceiving others (perhaps out of ignorance) and claiming something is scientific when infact, it is not, are removing our credibility.


However, let me talk about what i disagree with:

1. The underplaying of the clear natural phenomenon of the Quran, that does not fall into the above 3 catagories. It would be false to say science holistically is changing. Embrology for instance, is a documented fact. We can see the different stages an embryo undergoes , we know each stage, the layers, what forms when.

Thus, the Embrology in the Quran being a perfect match , being far above the knowledge Muhammed pbuh or anyone up to recent times , adds credibility that it indeed is the word of God.

No-one is lying to anyone else. This is established natural phenomenon.

Hamza Tzortis shares the same view as the speaker, but does not underplay the scientific miracles.


Another one, for instance, is the common origin of everything in the universe from a singularity. We have overwhelming evidence for it.

When the Quran talks about the creation of the universe it says : "Do not the unbelievers see, the heavens (universe) and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation) before we clove them asunder?...and we made every living thing from water".

1. Confirms everything in existence was 'joined together as one unit of creation'.
2 Common physical origin of everything.
3. Seperation from that common origin leads to our universe. 'clove them asunder'


Underplaying that is incorrect. It's not even correct to say 'that seems interesting'.


So it's beyond a fact the Quran has verses pertaining to natural phenomenon - clear verses -which science has been able to firmly establish. However, it's wrong to jump on any scientific advancement and try to find a link in the Quran. We should focus on established, thoroughly researched unchangeable elements of science.


1. The respected brother in the video quotes Muhammed pbuh and the Quran wavering from giving scientific examples. I think that's an incorrect analogy to make.

Allah swt in several verses clearly tells us how the winds work, about orbits, rotations, how the universe was made, embryology the seas of the earth and the invisible barriers, and for salt and sea, the partitions, and so on and so forth.

This is the creator of the universe making comments on how he has programmed certain elements, or his knowledge given to us in a form he chooses on how certain natural phenomenon works - so it would actually be very worrying not to find such things in the Quran.

I think you have two extremes. Those who go over the top and are over zealous, and those who (incorrectly) do not make the clear link between established science and the Quran where credit is due.

The mother of believers fought with Ali(may Allah be pleased with him) when he was a caliphah. Why are you picking on Muawiyah brother ?

Do we have hadiths of Muhammed pbuh saying 'when i die, here is how you should choose' or 'if i die, then this will be your leader' ?

I am baffled why Muhammed pbuh, one of the most powerful men secularly and religiously, would pass away without saying a word. Musa a.s. did not go up mount Sina without leaving Harun a.s.  Muhammed pbuh never left his city without appointing someone to be in charge, yet he dies and does not say a single word?

I think we need to start a new sect inbetween shia and sunni Islam.

Yazid(l) (i'm sure we both agree he was the biggest tyrant ) ruthlessly Murdered Hussain (may Allah be pleased with him) the Grandson of Muhammed pbuh?

Ali, Hassan,Hussein - all killed.

The son of Hussain, killed.

The son of him , killed.

Jaffer Sadiq (may Allah be pleased with him) murdered as well:

Scholars believed to have learned extensively from Ja'far Al-Sadiq:

Jābir ibn Hayyān – known in Europe as Geber, a great alchemist.[31]
Musa al-Kadhim – his son, the seventh Shi’ah Imam according to the Twelvers
Isma'il ibn Jafar – his son, the sixth Ismaili Imam according to the Ismailis.
Ali al-Uraidhi ibn Ja'far al-Sadiq- his youngest son.
Mufadhal ibn Amr- his Gate keeper and a prominent student.
Sunni scholars Abū Ḥanīfa and Malik ibn Anas worked with Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn Abu Bakr, Hisham ibn Urwah, Salim ibn Abd-Allah, Zayd ibn Ali, Ja'far Al-Sadiq and Muhammad al-Baqir
Abū Ḥanīfa - founder of Hanafi school of thought.
Malik ibn Anas – founder of the Maliki school of thought.


He taught all of these men, yet very few scholars refer to him? He taught two of the major Imams in the Ahle Sunnah wal-jamaat school of thought, yet very few of his scholarly works are at all referred to?

Nothing makes sense anymore. Do you not see how politics has wrecked this all ? People crave for power, forget Islam, kill the true muslims, distort the message.

Actually an expanding universe is consistent with ancient beliefs about the role of sky-gods, because the sky-gods were allevated to the position of bright souls which light up the night sky. One of the most famous divinities of the sky was Nut, who was supported by Shu. Shu is not just the god of air and wind, but also he is the god who expands to the two horizons. He is sometimes show as a god of the light of the moon and of the light of the sun. The sun appears to slow down at the horizons, thus the Egyptians believed that the god Ra changed to a different boat on his journey to and from the horizons, and hence the appearance of the slowing down of the sun at the horizons. It is called in scientific terms, differential refraction.

But in Egyptian parlance the concept of expanding a domain was relegated to expanding influence and power. For the Egyptians in order to overthrow chaos an expansion of the borders had to occur. The gods speak of overthrowing chaos in the universe. This is why in Egypt the great Pylons were erected as an extension of the cosmos. In some reliefs the god is slaying his enemies and the inscriptions mention that the god has expanded his territory and has overcome the great chaos. In one scene, for example, from the temple of Edfu the pylons show Horus smiting Apophis who represents the dark void. The dark void has no light and therefore nothing can grow in it. There is no space here just void, oblivion. The god Horus is here represented in the image of the falcon as the bringer of light in the afterlife which dispells the darkness of the void and expands the peripheries of this world and the next, expands the known cosmos to the egdes of the unknown.

The effects of the Big Bang may well have been known by the ancient Egyptians. They encoded it. Shu and Tefnut represents the laws of the universe which is concentrated in Maat. The galaxy we are in is subject to expulsion/expansion and contraction or gravitation. Shu represents the force of expansion, he is heat and air. Tefnut is moisture which is contractive. The Egyptians were being philosophical and scientific. In the same mythology the god who bore Shu and Tefnut is Atum, and he represents the physical aspect of the universe. In the mythos he is the Primeval Mound at the beginning of time, thus Atum emerged and gave birth to the two forces that now govern our galaxy. In the mythology the two forces of Shu and Tefnut are commanded to hold up the sky, thus expand the sky towards the two horizons.

But does this mean that the Egyptians believed that the universe is expanding? It would suggest only that the cosmos is subject to certain laws and forces, and the god desired to expand his divine power over the forces of chaos and darkness.

"...We built the heaven with might and We expand it wide."

Who is this "we"? Obviously it is the Elohim gods.

"...It is He (Allah) who created the seven heavens, one above another."

Thus I conclude that the expansion of the universe was the same as that for the Egyptians in their expansion of the peripheries of the horizons. The Egyptians called it the Horizon of the West and the Horizon of the East. And when the sky was formed it was "rent apart" and this Nut was separated from her lover, Geb. The same is told in the later Babylonian myth of Tiamat and Marduk, where Marduk splits Tiamat in two, thus separating the two halfs.

The "seven heavens" or Aeons here may be the celestial domains of the Archons, rulers of the world according to Gnosticism. In Egypt the seven heavens are delinated in the Ogdoad (eight gods, Elohim, Kabiri), where the cosmos is expanded to an eighth heaven. The Egyptians had nine heavens in total, with two of them being the two portions of Earth, the dual-land. In the book of the Enoch there are 10 heavens, which recalls 'perfection', for the Egyptians believed that 9 or 10 were perfect numbers. The Aeons are also mentioned in ancient Babylonian texts. But another explanation for the seven heavens is that each of the seven planets swims in its own heaven, thus there are seven planets and seven heavens respectively.

Take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_egg

In the myth of Pangu, developed by Taoist monks hundreds of years after Lao Zi, the universe began as an egg. A god named Pangu, born inside the egg, broke it into two halves: the upper half became the sky, while the lower half became the earth. As the god grew taller, the sky and the earth grew thicker and were separated further. Finally Pangu died and his body parts became different parts of the earth.
















How do i refute the above brothers/sisters? Was this egyptian information EVEN available?

He writes:

"Yahweh is one god chosen from many gods. The advance towards monotheism in Israel was facilitated by monaltry, and strict monotheism came about as a result of rationalism. But the old scheme was too imprinted on the psyche. And Christianity had a 'son of God', including a heavenly god (the Father) and a goddess (Mary), which is the regurgitation of the old Baal religion. This is why Jews could not accept this heretical religion called Christianity. The veneration of Jesus and Mary was akin to that of Horus and Isis, who were the Baals of Egypt. Christianity started out amongst Pagan Jews. Eventually the pagan cult was Judaized.

And Mohammed reinterpreted Ramadan from its origins in pre-Islamic paganism. Ramadan is heralded by the crescent moon. The Hadj itself is a pilgrimage made by the pre-Islamic Arabs to the Kaba. Read A.J. Wensinck in his Handbook of Early Mohammedan Tradition, 1927."

Ahsant brothers/sisters,

I will read the links and acquire all of this useful knowledge.

What kind of rubbish is that ?! Everyone knows that the Muslims of Makkah where forced to leave after suffering much torture . And the prophet has said that if he wasn't forced , he wouldn't have left the dearest country to his heart . And what agreement to wage war on Makkah ? ( And not Mecca you ignorants ) The only agreement made in Madinah ( Not Medina ) was with the Jews to fight whoever assaults them ( Which the Jews broke ) And that's what happened .

As for those who don't accept Quran as a historical evidence (Eat dirt !) Who made YOU a judge to say if something is an accepted source or not ? But if you're so desperate , check every historical book with correct chains to see that they all match Quran . It is really a farce . The only nation which has recorded its history by chains of stories is the Islamic nation , and you still have the nerve to talk ? In your own history , you can't prove if a leader or a king has said something or not , because it is only mentioned by one lone person who never met that king . How did he hear it from him ? Was it from someone else ? Then why doesn't he mention that person ? You're not ones to talk about the authority of historical resources .

Yet again , it is one of the biggest farces when such Islamophobic individuals do the play of "Prove that you're innocent or you're guilty . And even if you prove it I won't take it because you're barbarian" . As we say in Arabic "The evidence is a burden on those who claim" .

I know my language is edgy here , but I believe anyone would be mad after having difficulties during his day and then he opens his PC to see such idiocy .

I understand your frustration brother. Is it possible if you or anyone else could provide me with historical evidence i.e sources that i could back this up with? I know what we are saying is true, based on the unanimous agreement by muslims and non-muslims, but i would like some historical evidences to present to them with brother:)

Brother Osama,

I saw the yusuf estates video and found these tips on how to deal with anti-islamic websites. Is it possible to have this added and sourced on this website? It would be useful for everyone.(Obviously if that is what you feel should happen!)

Taken from: http://www.itsislam.net/articles/dealing_antiislamic.asp

1. Keep your cool: It is good to be angry when you see Islam attacked, but keep your cool and act with a level head. When we are overly angry we cannot act rationally and thus we undermine our goals. We will do and say things which later on we will regret. For example, we may be tempted to attack the person's religion in a bad way which is not permissible in Islam.

2.Don't write the webmaster back unless you are ready: For the most part these people thrive on confrontation. They would love for you to respond and are ready for a quick answer. Remember, many of these people know a lot about Islam so if you are not ready for them they will soundly defeat you in any argument. Also, if you answer back but don't have the proper knowledge you will end up making Islam and Muslims look worse. Some webmasters actually post all responses on the website for all to read. The more silly the response then the more likely it will be placed on the site. Please note, just because someone wins a particular argument does not mean they are right. The loser may just not have all the information on hand at the time of the argument.

3.Don't try to have the page removed from the internet: Many Muslims try to have the website removed from the internet altogether by writing the company which hosts the site and complaining. This is a waste of time. Even if the host removed the site they can open up in a few days under another host, so our time is wasted on such efforts.

4Don't publicize the site to others: One of the biggest mistakes we commit is to tell others about the offensive website. All this does is give the site owner free publicity which is what he/she wants. If you see an offensive site don't spread it all over the place as you are actually helping the site owner when doing this.(I.E Do not back-link them, this adds to their SEO).

5.Best defense is a good offense: Finally, the best defense against anti-Islamic websites is to develop your own excellent website which presents Islam in a beautiful and accurate manner. Many people are out there searching for answers and more and more are turning to the internet to find these answers. Possibly they could visit your website and as a result become Muslim.

Also, other Muslims could use your site to get information they need for dawah or research and Allah will reward you for providing this service. Even if you cannot start a website, you can at least submit articles to existing websites which they can use so that all can get the benefit. Remember, you can play a valuable role in improving the Islamic content on the internet. Don't wait for someone else to do it. May Allah help us to be more effective in defending Islam.