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Jazaka Allah Khayr, dear brother Wahrani.
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In my exchanges with a Christian religious apologist, a discussion on violence in religion, he did not fail to quote part of the verses of Sura 5.32 in order to accuse us of passing Islam as a peaceful religion. and which in his eyes this is far from being the Truth, he said while adding that verse 32 of sura 5 is often brandished by defenders of Islam, in an incomplete way, to make believe that the murder is forbidden in Islam and that whoever kills a man, it is as if he had killed all mankind. Murder is obviously not forbidden in Islam as these people want us to believe - he concluded!

So as we can see with my Christian antagonist, it is about debates of ideas, to convince the other, to make admit a policy or a reality, Islam recommends to choose the best style, the good thought, smile and the right attitude as it says in verse 125 “and discuss with them in the best way.” Islam recommends wisdom and the right exhortation:
"And tell my servants to speak the best of the best words", (Qur'an 53:17).
And the Qur’an also continues: "Repel evil with what is best".

Reading such lines, we are very far from the Qur'an which literally horrifies on the other hand we can also see that reason is not the obstacle to faith in Islam, but is a necessary condition (for example , Qur'an, 2.44; 3.190; 16.12-13, 67; 20.54; 45.5).
Before any gratuitous condemnation, it would be important that we must first separate individual cases and personal interpretations from actual religion, so it is necessary not to condemn so much a book or text solely to literal, figurative or simply a result. It is not enough to take a few passages from the Qur'an to make it say something that it is not really saying. Again, opponents who take a verse out of context, and out of its legal understanding, are in there. 'error, but just as the detractors, who in all ignorance and puffed up with pride, take the verses out of context, and ignore all the rules of Islam, thinking that the Fiqh (jurisprudence), stop reading a single isolated verse.

The Qur'an is read and understood as a whole, in the sense that one must take into account everything that God says in his revealed Book. Thus, when the killing of criminals is expressed, there is also expressed forgiveness, mercy, and the alternative which preserves the life of even the criminal is better in the sight of Allah. For Islam the human person has absolute value, because the individual reflects humanity as a whole: “The value of the individual is neither numerical, nor rational, nor social; it is a gift from God himself, a gift for human beings as such - regardless of cultural peculiarities, historical significance or striking self-confidence.

In the case of Islam, the Qur'an is the ultimate and only authority which recommends that the worst sins are to associate or associate others with God and to assume the role of God in it. interpretation and application of the divine Message is the greatest form of blasphemy. Again, this is not the Book, but the interpretation of men. We must not forget that Islam is a peaceful religion which aims to give man moral standards of exceptional quality.

The first verse of the Qur'an, "The Opening" explains this very well by dividing people into two categories:
1. Those whom God has blessed!
2. Those who have gone astray!

However, the actions of the followers of radical religious (terrorists, etc.) cannot be attributed to violence in the religion who in fact remain idolaters in strictly Koranic terms because they associate others (namely their leaders) with God. instead of going to the source themselves, i.e. the authority of the Qur'an instead of treating the precepts of the Qur'an as a guideline instead of a definitive Book.

The story of the sons of Adam (Hâbîl and Qâbîl) appears in Sura 5 (Verses 30-35), here is what the Qur'an reports:

27 And tell them the story of Adam's two sons truthfully. Both offered sacrifices; that of one was accepted and that of the other was not. This one said, "I will surely kill you." - "Allah accepts," said the other, "only from the pious. "

30 His soul prompted him to kill his brother. So he killed him and thus became one of the losers.

32 This is why We have prescribed for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person not guilty of murder or corruption on the earth, it is as if he had killed all men. And whoever gives him life, it is as if he gives life to all men. Indeed Our messengers came to them with the proofs. And then lo and behold, in spite of that, many of them began to commit excesses on the earth. "

The Qur'an, once again proves that those who kill (or kill themselves) in the name of a sacred demand betray the very message of Islam which firmly prohibits murder. and it is verse 33 that does indeed speak of what the enemies of Islam suffer who also strive to corrupt the earth:

33 "The reward of those who make war against Allah and His Messenger, and who endeavor to sow corruption on the earth, is that they are killed, or crucified, or their hand and leg are cut off. opposites, or that they be expelled from the country. It will be ignominy for them here below; and in the hereafter there will be a tremendous retribution for them, "

However, verse 34 states as mercy and compassion:
34. Except those who repented before falling into your power: know that then Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. "

The Qur'an indeed treats very cruelly this sinful group which it regards as the enemy of Allah.
But to call it a cruel book because of it, you have to ignore a very crucial element in the rest of the book that compensates for this cruelty at every turn: God in the Quran, besides being all-powerful, all-knowing etc. is also all compassionate and all merciful. In fact, these two are the most repeated properties of God. Each chapter begins with the sentence: “In the name of God, the most merciful, the most merciful ..

So yes, you can focus on a specific verse against the enemies of God and call the Qur'an cruel if you wish. But it wouldn't be good judgment when you also know that those who are subjected to this cruelty are also offered endless opportunities to repent at a superhuman level of mercy and compassion.

Apart from the Quran, the prophet of Islam illustrated the mercy of God by saying that "All your sins are forgiven if you remove a thorn from your neighbor's path."
So murder in Islam is forbidden, but in times of war enemies can be killed (in combat), the worst criminals among them can be executed (by the competent authorities, and by the average Muslim, just like all states of the earth practice it or practiced it).

But a person who surrenders, and abandons his crimes, cannot be condemned to death, since taking the life that Allah has made sacred is forbidden (except rightly as stated before) as Allah says in verse 151 of the sura 6: "151.
Say: “Come on! I will repeat to you what your Lord has made you a sacred duty: do not associate anything with Him; treat your fathers and mothers with kindness; do not kill your children because of need: We will provide you and theirs for a living; stay away from turpitude, whether apparent or hidden; do not kill anyone, for God has made a person sacred, except in the exercise of a legitimate right. "This is what God has prescribed for you. Perhaps you will reason! "

In sura 5, verse 32 actually refers to a prescription made to the Hebrews. But what do we learn when we put this verse in its full context, which is no more and no less than Sura 5 in its entirety?
Well, there we learn about the existence of verses adhering to the one exposed above, and we learn about the attitude to adopt in the face of the prescription given to the Hebrews.

Indeed, verse 59 tells us this:
59. Say: “O People of the Book! Do you blame us for anything other than believing in Allah, what has been sent down to us and what has been sent down before? But most of you are perverts.

The question arises: What has Allah sent down before?

It would be good to know how a verse could not find its meaning without placing it in its context which is the entire sura, and well we discover as by magic that verse 44 sheds light on the nature of what has been descended before:

44. We have sent down the Torah in which there is guide and light. It is on this basis that the prophets who have submitted to Allah, as well as the rabbis and doctors judge the affairs of the Jews. For they have been entrusted with the care of the Book of Allah, and they are witnesses of it. So don't fear the people, but fear Me. And don't sell My teachings for a cheap price. And those who do not judge according to what Allah has sent down, these are the disbelievers. "
So here the Torah, and other verses complete the nature of what has been descended before, like verse 46 and verse 47:

"46. And We sent after them Jesus, son of Mary, to confirm what was in the Torah before him. And We gave him the Gospel, where there is guide and light, to confirm what was in the Torah before him, and a guide and an exhortation for the pious. "

47. Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah has sent down there. Those who do not judge according to what Allah has revealed, these are the perverts. "

Finally, verse 48 seals the outcome of this debate, because it confirms the Qur'an confirms what was sent down before it:

48. And upon you (Muhammad) We sent down the Book with the truth, to confirm the Book which was there before him and to prevail over it. Judge therefore among them according to what Allah has revealed. Do not follow their passions, far from the truth that has come to you. To each of you We have assigned a law and a plan to follow. If Allah had willed, He would certainly have made you all one community. But He wants to test you in what He gives you. so compete in good deeds. All of you return to Allah; then He will let you know what you were deviating from. "

So we see here, that if the Jews had a prescription not to harm the life of an innocent person, this prescription systematically applies to Muslims, as proof, in the same sura, the law of retaliation is stipulated there:

45. And We have prescribed for them life for life, eye for eye, nose for nose, ear for ear, tooth for tooth. Injuries fall under the law of retaliation. Afterwards, whoever renounces it out of charity, it will earn him an atonement. And those who do not judge according to what Allah has revealed, these are the unrighteous. "

There is talk of a prescription still addressed to the children of Israel, the Qur'an reveals about the law of Talion for Muslims?

“O you who believe! You have been prescribed retaliation on the subject of the slain: free man for free man, slave for slave, woman for woman. »(Sura Al Baqara, verse 178)

So the laws that apply to the Hebrews do apparently apply to Muslims apparently and I believe the true Muslim view above is very much in accord with the biblical view.
Conclusion: The Qur'an is by no means violent just stupid people are !!!!!!

Wahrani

https://kadertahri.canalblog.com/


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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by QuranSearchCom on June 28, 2021, 06:04:56 AM »
[007:069]  "Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? call in remembrance that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from God: that so ye may prosper."

The people of Noah's doom was a time-mark for a Divine Purpose only known to Allah Almighty.  Their doom was to happen so that other Prophets and people were to emerge tall among all of the nations.

[037:077]  We arranged it so that only his progeny survived (the flood).

This Noble Verse does not talk about the entire globe being covered with water.  It only talked about the followers of Noah and the people of Noah:

[037:075]  Earlier, Nooh called Us and We responded. We are simply the Best of those who respond.
[037:076]  We rescued him and his household from an awful torture.
[037:077]  We arranged it so that only his progeny ذريته survived (the flood).
[037:078]  And among the generations to follow, We let his name be honored and revered.
[037:079]  Peace (and honor) is for ‘Nooh’ in the entire universe among all people في العالمين!
[037:080]  This is really how We reward the righteous ones!



Also, seed ذريته of Noah here includes the Prophets that will come after him from the future generations:

‏6:84 ووهبنا له اسحاق ويعقوب كلا هدينا ونوحا هدينا من قبل ومن ذريته داوود وسليمان وايوب ويوسف وموسى وهارون وكذلك نجزي المحسنين

[006:084]  We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good:


The Muslims are the seed of Noah:

‏6:133 وربك الغني ذو الرحمة ان يشا يذهبكم ويستخلف من بعدكم مايشاء كما انشاكم من ذرية قوم اخرين

[006:133]  Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people.


Before Islam, the Arabs were on the edge of getting doomed by Allah Almighty.  Islam saved them.  When they succeeded in accepting and embracing Islam, they were saved:

‏3:103 واعتصموا بحبل الله جميعا ولاتفرقوا واذكروا نعمة الله عليكم اذ كنتم اعداء فالف بين قلوبكم فاصبحتم بنعمته اخوانا وكنتم على شفا حفرة من النار فانقذكم منها كذلك يبين الله لكم اياته لعلكم تهتدون

[003:103]  Cling firmly to the rope of Allah, all of you together (as a single entity)! Do not fall into disunity. Remember the favors of Allah upon you, when you were each other’s enemy? He brought your hearts together; and so by His grace you became (like) brothers. You were (perched precariously) at the brink of a fire filled abyss على شفا حفرة من النار. But He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes the revelations clear to you. Perhaps you will find the right path.



Bloodline of Covenants:

Three times was‏  وتركنا عليه في الاخرين   "And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times" mentioned throughout the Glorious Quran.  It was mentioned for:

1-  Noah in Noble Verse 37:78 above.

2-  Ishmael and his future Covenant after Isaac's Covenant comes to pass:  https://www.answering-christianity.com/isaac_and_ishmael.htm

3-  Ilyaas when he warned his people to stop worshiping the pagan god and idol, Baal.


[037:102]  Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
[037:103]  So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
[037:104]  We called out to him "O Abraham!
[037:105]  "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
[037:106]  For this was obviously a trial-
[037:107]  And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
[037:108]  And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

‏37:102 فلما بلغ معه السعي قال يابني اني ارى في المنام اني اذبحك فانظر ماذا ترى قال ياابت افعل ماتؤمر ستجدني ان شاء الله من الصابرين
‏37:103 فلما اسلما وتله للجبين
‏37:104 وناديناه ان ياابراهيم
‏37:105 قد صدقت الرؤيا انا كذلك نجزي المحسنين
‏37:106 ان هذا لهو البلاء المبين
‏37:107 وفديناه بذبح عظيم
‏37:108 وتركنا عليه في الاخرين



Ishmael was true to his promise that he made to his father in Noble Verse 37:102 above: 

[019:054] Also mention in the Book (the story of) Isma'il: He was (strictly) true to what he promised صادق الوعد, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.


[037:123]  So also was Elias among those sent (by Us).
[037:124]  Behold, he said to his people, "Will ye not fear (God)?
[037:125]  "Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-
[037:126]  "God, your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?"
[037:127]  But they rejected him, and they will certainly be called up (for punishment),-
[037:128]  Except the sincere and devoted Servants of God (among them).
[037:129]  And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

‏37:123 وان الياس لمن المرسلين
‏37:124 اذ قال لقومه الا تتقون
‏37:125 اتدعون بعلا وتذرون احسن الخالقين
‏37:126 الله ربكم ورب ابائكم الاولين
‏37:127 فكذبوه فانهم لمحضرون
‏37:128 الا عباد الله المخلصين
‏37:129 وتركنا عليه في الاخرين


Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by Qualities of Allah on June 27, 2021, 09:15:25 PM »
Then why does Quran 37:77 say only Noah's descendants are remaining on Earth if other nations already existed? Shouldn't those nations' descendants also be existing today?
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by QuranSearchCom on June 27, 2021, 05:31:54 PM »
No, nations already existed when the flood happened.  But the bloodline of Abraham and others all came from Noah.
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by Qualities of Allah on June 27, 2021, 12:47:59 PM »
So according to Quran 37:77 and you, from Noah came the bloodline of Prophets and later all other nations except Noah's perished (not in the Flood but for other reasons)? Because Quran 37:77 says only Noah's descendants are those remaining on Earth.
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by QuranSearchCom on June 27, 2021, 01:40:44 AM »
Noah, peace be upon him, was sent to specific group of people.  From him came the bloodline of Prophets after him.  Allah Almighty also made him the cornerstone of the number 19 Numerical Miracle in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm#cornerstone
www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


[007:069]  "Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? call in remembrance that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from God: that so ye may prosper."

Only the nation of Noah drowned.  Other nations survived.  The flood was local. 


Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by Qualities of Allah on June 25, 2021, 02:37:32 PM »
Is Noah's flood local or global? I know that you say it is local because why would Allah punish all nations just for one nation? However, the Quran seems to suggest that the flood was global.

[17:003]"O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant."

Why would the Quran say "O descendants of those we carried in the ship with Noah" like Noah and his people were the only ones living on Earth at the time? This seems to suggest that there were no other nations on Earth at the time of Noah except his nation so thats why the flood was global. Moving on:

[37:077]"And We made his (Noah's) descendants those remaining [on the earth]"

This Verse suggests that Noah's descendants are the only ones left on Earth. The last Verse that seems to be clear that the ones on the Ark were the ancestors of everyone on Earth:

[69:011]"Indeed, when the floodwater had overflowed, We carried you in the floating Ark ˹with Noah˺,"

This Verse is saying that WE were carried in the Ark. This means that the ancestors of everyone (and us) on Earth are those who were on the Ark. This shows that there was no other community on Earth except Noah's at that time (because Noah existed towards the beginning of humanity's creation so humans were probably not scattered throughout the Earth yet).

There was another Verse that I found saying something like "if We willed, We would have drowned your ancestors in the Flood" but I forgot where it is now. This Verse was the best in seeming to suggest that the Flood was global but I cannot find it now.

So what do you think about these 3 Verses?
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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Noah
« Last post by Qualities of Allah on June 22, 2021, 07:56:15 AM »
Lol, thanks for the answers. I can disprove them now even more on the third point. Just discovered that for Verse 31:14,
"And We have commanded people to ˹honour˺ their parents. Their mothers bore them through hardship upon hardship, and their weaning takes two years (عامين). So be grateful to Me and your parents. To Me is the final return."

The word used here was عامين (dual form of عام) which is supposed to mean "good years" according to them. Except literally when the Verse says the mother faced "hardship upon hardship" for two عام, I dont think those عام were "good years". Now if they argue that the baby's weaning in the baby's point of view were part of the "good years", I dont think trying to give the baby other food, they would like to be given food other than breast milk when that is all that it wants.  So that is also hardship.
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Holy Quran

6:137 And it was adorned for the polytheists, by their partners, to kill their children in order to turn them and to confound their system for them. Had God willed they would not have done this, so ignore them and what they invent.

14:46 Andthey schemed their scheming, and their scheming is known to God; and their scheming was enough to make the mountains cease to exist.
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