Author Topic: View on this respected brother saying there are no scientific miracles?  (Read 8940 times)

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Offline mendacium remedium

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhEzWkYiss

I recommend watching the brothers video. I naturally disagree with him , but would like Brother Osama to make a comment when he gets time.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhEzWkYiss

I recommend watching the brothers video. I naturally disagree with him , but would like Brother Osama to make a comment when he gets time.

As'salamu Alaikum dear Brother,

I went to that guy's page, and posted two comments where I showed him where he was wrong.  Seconds later, he removed my two posts and blocked me, despite the fact that I spoke properly to him.  At minute 3:50 of his video, he refutes himself by admitting that the Glorious Quran does indeed contain Scientific Notions and Miracles in It.  He then goes on to speak general talk without giving single specific example.  He's also wrong for claiming that we have reduced the Holy Quran to a science book.  Pointing out the Miracles of the Glorious Quran has nothing to do with the Moral Code and Law of the Holy Quran. 

Open Challenge: 

I challenge any breathing creation on the face of this earth to refute the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran!  Don't give me general talk and nonsense.  Give me technical and specific answers.  Him blocking me and removing my posts, while me giving him a few examples and challenges to answer, such as the following from the 100s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles that were already found clearly shows that he has nothing:

The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran.  Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
 
The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.

At this stage that we've reached, it has become quite absurd to even question that the Glorious Quran is Miraculous.  Yet, we find people like him speaking nonsense without even giving a single example to back anything up.

Him blocking me proves that the clown is quite familiar with my website.  Tell him to come here to debate me.  He won't get blocked.  I only block those who either drown text with 10s of pages of inflamatory absurdities to avoid answering the point directly and to drown the point when he gets cornerned and refuted, as I did with one shia polythiest and idol-worshiping loser, and I also did it with one Muslim member who unfortunately was constantly being disrespectful to everyone on this board, and has become a big burden on me to monitor, contain and maintain (by me going into his posts and modify them).  I was and am far too busy for his silly games. Otherwise, BRING IT ON!  This is why I made this blog.  I am not scared of any website or any author.  Islam will smash them all!

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline mendacium remedium

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJhEzWkYiss

I recommend watching the brothers video. I naturally disagree with him , but would like Brother Osama to make a comment when he gets time.

As'salamu Alaikum dear Brother,

I went to that guy's page, and posted two comments where I showed him where he was wrong.  Seconds later, he removed my two posts and blocked me, despite the fact that I spoke properly to him.  At minute 3:50 of his video, he refutes himself by admitting that the Glorious Quran does indeed contain Scientific Notions and Miracles in It.  He then goes on to speak general talk without giving single specific example.  He's also wrong for claiming that we have reduced the Holy Quran to a science book.  Pointing out the Miracles of the Glorious Quran has nothing to do with the Moral Code and Law of the Holy Quran. 

Open Challenge: 

I challenge any breathing creation on the face of this earth to refute the Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran!  Don't give me general talk and nonsense.  Give me technical and specific answers.  Him blocking me and removing my posts, while me giving him a few examples and challenges to answer, such as the following from the 100s of Numerical and Scientific Miracles that were already found clearly shows that he has nothing:

The Glorious Quran has 114 Chapters. The sum of those Chapters is 6555 (1+2+...+114 = 6555). There are also 6236 Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran.  Now, IF YOU ADD EACH CHAPTER # with the number of its Verses, then you get a list of numbers. So 1 (first Chapter) + 7 (# of its Verses) = 8. Do this for all Chapters.
 
The sum of the odd numbers from the list = 6555.
The sum of the even numbers from the list = 6236.

At this stage that we've reached, it has become quite absurd to even question that the Glorious Quran is Miraculous.  Yet, we find people like him speaking nonsense without even giving a single example to back anything up.

Him blocking me proves that the clown is quite familiar with my website.  Tell him to come here to debate me.  He won't get blocked.  I only block those who either drown text with 10s of pages of inflamatory absurdities to avoid answering the point directly and to drown the point when he gets cornerned and refuted, as I did with one shia polythiest and idol-worshiping loser, and I also did it with one Muslim member who unfortunately was constantly being disrespectful to everyone on this board, and has become a big burden on me to monitor, contain and maintain (by me going into his posts and modify them).  I was and am far too busy for his silly games. Otherwise, BRING IT ON!  This is why I made this blog.  I am not scared of any website or any author.  Islam will smash them all!

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Ya Akhi,

Although we should not backbite in Islam, i think there are two extremes. For instance, some brothers claim a lot of the Quran is a scientific miracle, and others claim not a single verse is.

Surely as the Quran says, we are the nation of the middle way? We need to basically only agree with 100% established science, and nothing less? But not disregard the verses that are pertaining to science.

And i agree. My faith was a little shaky yesterday after being told that the Quran has not a single scientific miracle -falsely.

So Allah swt tells us each stage of a human in the womb..but apparently that's just rhetoric ? I disagree.

There's another video i have, and this one is actually brilliant in terms of the embrology of the Quran(some parts): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuAfmJ3LS4s

Jazakallah!


Here was a message i sent:

First of all , let me acknowledge on what i do agree with the respected speaker in the video.

1. The Quran is not a book of science, it is not there to replace science text-books and filled with equations. The Quran is a guidance to mankind.

2. Science is everchanging and fluid, one day it can say one thing, the next something else.

3. People deceiving others (perhaps out of ignorance) and claiming something is scientific when infact, it is not, are removing our credibility.


However, let me talk about what i disagree with:

1. The underplaying of the clear natural phenomenon of the Quran, that does not fall into the above 3 catagories. It would be false to say science holistically is changing. Embrology for instance, is a documented fact. We can see the different stages an embryo undergoes , we know each stage, the layers, what forms when.

Thus, the Embrology in the Quran being a perfect match , being far above the knowledge Muhammed pbuh or anyone up to recent times , adds credibility that it indeed is the word of God.

No-one is lying to anyone else. This is established natural phenomenon.

Hamza Tzortis shares the same view as the speaker, but does not underplay the scientific miracles.


Another one, for instance, is the common origin of everything in the universe from a singularity. We have overwhelming evidence for it.

When the Quran talks about the creation of the universe it says : "Do not the unbelievers see, the heavens (universe) and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation) before we clove them asunder?...and we made every living thing from water".

1. Confirms everything in existence was 'joined together as one unit of creation'.
2 Common physical origin of everything.
3. Seperation from that common origin leads to our universe. 'clove them asunder'


Underplaying that is incorrect. It's not even correct to say 'that seems interesting'.


So it's beyond a fact the Quran has verses pertaining to natural phenomenon - clear verses -which science has been able to firmly establish. However, it's wrong to jump on any scientific advancement and try to find a link in the Quran. We should focus on established, thoroughly researched unchangeable elements of science.


1. The respected brother in the video quotes Muhammed pbuh and the Quran wavering from giving scientific examples. I think that's an incorrect analogy to make.

Allah swt in several verses clearly tells us how the winds work, about orbits, rotations, how the universe was made, embryology the seas of the earth and the invisible barriers, and for salt and sea, the partitions, and so on and so forth.

This is the creator of the universe making comments on how he has programmed certain elements, or his knowledge given to us in a form he chooses on how certain natural phenomenon works - so it would actually be very worrying not to find such things in the Quran.

I think you have two extremes. Those who go over the top and are over zealous, and those who (incorrectly) do not make the clear link between established science and the Quran where credit is due.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Although we should not backbite in Islam, i think there are two extremes. For instance, some brothers claim a lot of the Quran is a scientific miracle, and others claim not a single verse is.

Both extremes are wrong; the ones that say no Miracles, and the ones that say all of the Holy Book is a Science Book as the guy made that specific claim. 

Here is the correct statement:  The Glorious Quran contains Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in It.  Why is this too difficult for some to read and comprehend is well beyond me.  I have yet to meet one Muslim from our camp that makes the claims that the Glorious Quran is a Science Book.

And by the way, the entire Glorious Quran IS A SCIENTIFIC MIRACLE!  But It again is not a science text book.  I am currently translating a 600-page book that gave 100s of Numerical Miracles examples of the Numerical values of Words and Noble Verses that matched each others in meanings and connotations, and also were multiples of the number 19 without any remainder.  And no, the brother isn't a Rashad Khalifa or Qurani cultist.  He is a Sunni, and adhers to the Sunnah, and most importantly, he believes in the entire Glorious Quran to be perfectly preserved.  No verses were removed.  And he demonstrated the Numerical Miracle very well.  I have one of his videos on the main page of this Blog  Click on it and see for yourself.

As to backbiting, I wasn't backbiting anyone.  I only stated that the guys deleted my posts and blocked me.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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And one more point.  I am concerned about your statement that the guy's video (a very shallow and absurd video that didn't even give one example) has casted doubts in your heart.  Instead of being a weak leaf that gets tossed and shaken by any wind, why don't you strengthen your Beliefs by digging deeper into this topic and settle this for yourself once and for all?

I mean, if this absurd video shook you, then you have a problem, my dear brother.  I am not trying to insult you.  I am only advising you.  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links and see the Miracles for yourself.  And believe me, this section will only grow, insha'Allah.

And instead of listening to people speaking general nonsense with not one single example, like the guy did in his video, why don't you, dear brother, post specific questions and specific examples that we can all examine and grill and test to see whether Islam is True or false in it?  That will be much better for you, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline mendacium remedium

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And one more point.  I am concerned about your statement that the guy's video (a very shallow and absurd video that didn't even give one example) has casted doubts in your heart.  Instead of being a weak leaf that gets tossed and shaken by any wind, why don't you strengthen your Beliefs by digging deeper into this topic and settle this for yourself once and for all?

I mean, if this absurd video shook you, then you have a problem, my dear brother.  I am not trying to insult you.  I am only advising you.  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links and see the Miracles for yourself.  And believe me, this section will only grow, insha'Allah.

And instead of listening to people speaking general nonsense with not one single example, like the guy did in his video, why don't you, dear brother, post specific questions and specific examples that we can all examine and grill and test to see whether Islam is True or false in it?  That will be much better for you, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Jazakallah dear brother.

I probably used the wrong word. I meant i reached a point where i was just bemused, and a little confused. He is a respected scholar, and says Dr Keith Moore was bribed by saudi officials, Dr Bucaille's science is out dated (False!).

The video was definitely full of holes in terms of argumentation (this is not geebah right? We are only adressing content).


I debate people on forums - muslims- and they put this video on there, non-muslims have cashed into this, and all the time spent trying to show the miraculous nature of the Quran feels like it's gone into water.

It's as if one of your own soldiers has shot you in the foot.

I am more or less in the middle. I only say something is a natural phenomenon miracle IF and only if it is established.

I thank you for making me see the error in the words i have used. It's just that the brother is so pious, and well spoken, and my own muslims were down-playing what i say on a non-muslim forum that shook me.

May Allah swt forgive me. Brother can i ask you about the Cattle miracle i.e modification ? I was reading tafseer on that verse and apparently, the verse only talks about the idolators slitting the cattle to offer them to Gods or make them Gods(forgot what it was) but the tafseer did not mention and GM process.

How can we be sure the verse is not talking about that, and is talking about people actually changing the creation of Allah genetically, rather than just slitting their ears to offer them to Gods or as a pagan worshipping ritual?

I was browsing rebuttals on the sub-atomic particle miracle, and some people say God did not use the word Atom, but he used the word 'Ant'. How do we adress that?



I will also be going into Medical School in October, how can i be of use to this cause? What can i do to assist or help or research.


Is it possible to know how long it will take to learn Arabic - and can normal arabs understand the Quran, or do they need to do courses in Classical Arabic?

Lastly brother, as much as i agree with you on some of the scientific miracles, the big crunch miracle is not one i can agree with. It's not established science. Dark energy and the latest science says the universe will expand forever. Should we really attribute that to Allah swt.?

:) May you be rewarded for your time (don't feel obliged to answer this right away, i understand you are doing good work and have other duties)


« Last Edit: May 17, 2013, 05:05:12 PM by mendacium remedium »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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May Allah swt forgive me. Brother can i ask you about the Cattle miracle i.e modification ? I was reading tafseer on that verse and apparently, the verse only talks about the idolators slitting the cattle to offer them to Gods or make them Gods(forgot what it was) but the tafseer did not mention and GM process.

How can we be sure the verse is not talking about that, and is talking about people actually changing the creation of Allah genetically, rather than just slitting their ears to offer them to Gods or as a pagan worshipping ritual?

I was browsing rebuttals on the sub-atomic particle miracle, and some people say God did not use the word Atom, but he used the word 'Ant'. How do we adress that?

Excellent question and topic that you raise, dear brother!  I get this nonsense from Sunnies every once in a while, and it goes similar to the following:

"If Ibn Abbas (or ibn Kathir, or Jalalyn, or Nawawi, etc...) didn't interpret the Noble Verse like you did, then what makes YOUR interpretation valid?  Why should we believe you??"

My Response:

1-  Let us stop being computerized robots and use our GOD-given brains.  This time is our age, and the Holy Quran NOW belongs to our time, and not the time of the pious people of old, who lived 1000+ years before us.

2-  The Noble Verse Itself gives the clear Prophecy about satan and his battle with mankind.  Let us read It:

(from http://www.answering-christianity.com/cloning.htm)

[004:119]  `And assuredly I will lead them astray and assuredly I will arouse in them vain desires, and assuredly I will incite them and they will cut the ears of cattle; and assuredly I will incite them and they will alter ALLAH's creation فليغيرن خلق الله.' And whoever takes Satan for a friend instead of ALLAH, he certainly suffers a manifest loss.

Question:  Do you see any pagan rituals mentioned in this Noble Verse?  No.  The pagan rituals was an interpretation by the pious Scholars of old, may Allah Almighty send His Peace, Mercy and Blessings upon them all.

Notice the Prophecy:  ALTER ALLAH'S CREATION (فليغيرن خلق الله)!  Ask any Arab, Muslim or non-Muslim about the Arabic Word here (فليغيرن).  If he denies that the Word means to fundamentally change or modify something, or to make a big alteration, then know that he is a liar from Hell!  The context is crystal clear, and the magnitude of the Word is also big:

(a)-  To alter the creations of GOD!  The alteration here is not minor.  It's major!  Otherwise, Allah Almighty would not have spoken this Noble Verse in this context.

(b)-  The alteration of GOD Almighty's creations is an encompassing one to many if not ALL of the creations of GOD Almighty that humans have control over.

(c)-  Why is the statement encompassing and vast?  Because it says "TO ALTER THE CREATIONS OF GOD!".


Cloning Today:

I don't wish to elaborate too much on this point here, because I've done this very thoroughly at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/cloning.htm.  I just want to make the following brief points:

1-  Cloning did indeed start with the slitting or cutting of the cattles' ears.  That is a confirmed fact from Western Government and Scientific Websites that I quoted and posted in the article.

2-  The ear is the favorite part of the body for extracting somatic cells for cloning.  This is what the Western Scientists said, and not me.  AND GET THIS:  This is the part that they used to do their first clone!

3-  Man has indeed successfully cloned cattles (ALTERED ALLAH'S CREATIONS), and he did it with the slitting of the ear.  And it's going to get worse and worse from here on. 

4-  Satan wants to mock Allah Almighty's Human-Creation.  The reason for this is because WE were the cause of his curse and his doom.  His rejection to bow down under our feet is what doomed him.  So in return, he wants to make a complete mockery out of this very creation that caused his doom.

I ask you and ask everyone here in the Holy Name of GOD Almighty, what does Ibn Abbas' and Ibn Kathir's interpretations have to do with our age today, and with the Quranic Prophecies that are being fulfilled before our naked eyes in our age today?  They existed well beyond 1000 years before us.  Why do the deniers and the slaves of these people (and these pious scholars are innocents from them) insist on denying the Glorious Quran's Miracles and Prophecies, today, when they are indisputably Miraculous?

Again, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links to see the Great Miracles of the Glorious Quran.

The Miracle is clear.  This one example here is a STUNNING Prophecy that had been fulfilled.  It was made for US today.  And I believe It is an End of Time Prophecy.  It's a Sign for the Hour, from among many many Signs that were told in the Glorious Quran and the Hadiths.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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I was browsing rebuttals on the sub-atomic particle miracle, and some people say God did not use the word Atom, but he used the word 'Ant'. How do we adress that?

I will also be going into Medical School in October, how can i be of use to this cause? What can i do to assist or help or research.

Is it possible to know how long it will take to learn Arabic - and can normal arabs understand the Quran, or do they need to do courses in Classical Arabic?

Lastly brother, as much as i agree with you on some of the scientific miracles, the big crunch miracle is not one i can agree with. It's not established science. Dark energy and the latest science says the universe will expand forever. Should we really attribute that to Allah swt.?

 May you be rewarded for your time (don't feel obliged to answer this right away, i understand you are doing good work and have other duties)

As'salamu Alaikum dear Brother,

May Allah Almighty bless in your future career and make you a very successful Doctor.  Ameen.

As atom and ant, that is a lie that the infidels made up dear brother.  Dharrah means atom.  Namlah means ant.  Dharrah was used, not Namlah.  You won't find "ant" in any English translation for Dharrah.  And by the way, I never myself used Dharrah as a Scientific Miracle.  I know some Muslims get ridiculous and want to turn everything into a Scientific Miracle, which ends up harming the cause.

As to the Cosmic Crunch, I believe this is a well established theory among Scientists.  Allah Almighty Said in the Glorious Quran that when Judgement Day comes, the entire Universe will be folded as the paper scrolls are folded.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/cosmic_crunch.htm.  Now, whether we want to call this Cosmic Crunch or not, the name should be irrelevant :).

As to helping Islam with your career, I recommend reading Dr. Keith Moor's books on Embryology.  They're taught in Universities, and he is a renowned scientist.  He also wrote a book or booklet (it's a small book and I have it) on the Embryological Miracles in the Glorious Quran.  Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/bones_then_muscles_wrapping.htm.  I have also scanned and posted several of his images that he referenced.  So perhaps, you can further expand on this research, dear brother, insha'Allah.

The following links should also help, insha'Allah:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/sex_determination.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/coccyx_miracle.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm#embryology

As to Arabic, I believe your college should have courses on it.  Like any other language, dear brother, it requires time and dedication.  If you can learn to at least read Arabic, then insha'Allah you'll find my research in this article http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm very valuable, because 7 dictionaries were used, and ample definitions in Arabic were provided that demonstrated the words' meanings and uses.  And the Arabic was translated into English for the reader to be able to follow.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care dear brother,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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I will also be going into Medical School in October


As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Perhaps you should get into this beautiful and growing and desperately needed research for humanity: The Future of Prosthetics: Mind-Bending Robotic Arms.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline mclinkin94

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There ARE scientific miracles in the Quran. For Muslims to say otherwise is extremely false and deceptive. How in the world is saying the Earth was created in 2 days and the universe was created in 6 days metaphorical. 2/6 is 1/3. That means the earth should be 1/3 the age of the universe. And it is. The universe is 13.7 billion years old and the Earth is 4.57 billion years old. 4.57/13.7 = 1/3. How can you say this is metaphorical? There cannot be any Muslim who can say with a straight face that the Quran is not scientifically miraculous. Sure some verses may not be (like the honey's antibacterial effects-it was well known before the Quran), but some are.

There are verses in this divine book that make my heart tremble in accuracy.

 

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