Author Topic: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!  (Read 9608 times)

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Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« on: January 06, 2014, 05:31:11 AM »
Assalamualykum.


 Some people claim that Quran doesn't really talk about cosmic rays through verse 67:5 and other similar verses. Rather it talks about meteors. They quote the following hadith in support of their claim:


 Ibn Abbas narrated from one of the companions of the Prophet (saw) from among the Ansar, who said that they were with the Prophet (saw) one night and they witnessed a shooting star. The Prophet (saw) asked them,

"What did you say during the days of ignorance concerning a shooting star like that?" They said, "Allah and His Messenger know best. We used to say that on that night an important person was born or an important person had died."

The Prophet (saw) said, "It does not do so because of the death or birth of anyone. But when Allah (swt) decides an affair, the inhabitants who carry the Throne sing His praise, and so do the ones of the next heaven and so forth until the lowest heaven. Then those are close to those who carry the Throne say to those who carry the Throne, "What did your Lord say?" And they are then informed about what Allah has decreed. And they pass this news to the next heaven and so forth until it reaches the lowest heaven. Then the jinn listen in and pass on the word to their servants. When the angels notice them they attack them with meteors. If all that they [the jinn] would relate is only that which they actually had heard, they would be truthful; but, instead, they mix it with lies and make additions to it."



 They say from the above Hadith it's clear that Quran is talking about something seen directly from Earth. But we know that cosmic rays aren't seen from the Earth.


 Okay, logically the above Hadith can't be true at all. Because stars have no relation with meteors. And it also says that Jiinns used to travel to the lowest heaven stealing the secret information  to convey them to the fortune tellers. So Allah made the stars a guard against them so that they can't enter the lowest heaven. But, how it's possible????? Because stars have been there from the inception of the Universe serving as guards against the devils. Can anyone please help me with this? Muhammad (PBUH) can't say such a thing. Becuase it doesn't really make any sense. Allah Himself declares:

 Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire.(53:3)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 05:43:04 AM by FARHAN_UDDIN »

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2014, 12:38:46 PM »
There could be an issue with the translation of the hadith or it got corrupted over time. Either way it doesn't matter, I don't put trust in hadiths and neither should you.

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) most-likely did not say that. I think after an investigation of hadiths in their entirety, you can reasonably conclude that they contain corruptions. Of course it is no surprise that the people of the 7th century would be inserting their own interpretations of the Quran to a hadith and saying that the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said that.  They could have done it on purpose of subconsciously. Humans do make mistakes and humans are known to corrupt scripture.

Unfortunately, These hadiths that the majority of Muslims follow are responsible for our sects. For the Shias hating the prophet Muhammad's wife and for all of the other nonsense. Hadiths are the reason why many people deny Islam, and I would say that their (Atheists/Christians) objections to hadiths are reasonable.

The Quran predicted this:

[Quran 31:6] Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless HADITH, and  divert others from the path of God without knowledge

If you have noticed in the Debate about evolution. The only reason why they rejected evolution is because they support Hadiths when the Quran is clear on the matter  :(..Imagine how many people (atheists) have left Christianity because it rejects evolution. That was part of the reason why I left. Now just imagine Muslims present to them the truth that the Quran supports evolution....but, we don't because the hadiths contradict the Quran and we uphold the hadiths and use them (a collection of sayings collected by humans) in order to interpret a divine book. Shame on us. This verse also makes it clear that those who uphold baseless hadiths don't think they are diverting others from the path of God (notice the verse says "without knowledge"). This is the case with many Muslims, unfortunately.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2014, 12:42:45 PM by mclinkin94 »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2014, 01:31:32 PM »
LOL, I can already see brother "Black Muslim" springing into action!  I already see him sprinting towards this thread...  :P

Offline FARHAN_UDDIN

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2014, 01:33:24 PM »
Assalamualykum.


 Yes brother I agree with you.

And brother maybe Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) tried to interpret the verses as much as he could but due to ignorance  and lack of knowledge those interpretations got fabricated by the later generation. :-\ :-\ .

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2014, 05:56:31 AM »
Your straight right Osama .
I already wasted days of my life explaining the most basic rules of Arabic and bringing dictionaries and all . I won't go over that again . If you hate Hadith so much then that is your own business . Keep your fantasies and detective games in your dreams . Just spamming "Hadith must be corrupted" means nothing .

And if I'm not mistaken Osama , the message I sent you wasn't posted in the topic .

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2014, 01:27:17 PM »
Your straight right Osama .
I already wasted days of my life explaining the most basic rules of Arabic and bringing dictionaries and all . I won't go over that again . If you hate Hadith so much then that is your own business . Keep your fantasies and detective games in your dreams . Just spamming "Hadith must be corrupted" means nothing .

And if I'm not mistaken Osama , the message I sent you wasn't posted in the topic .

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother "Black Muslim",

Akhi, the hadiths collections do contain errors in them.  This doesn't make the person who makes this claim a Sunnah or Hadiths rejector.  This is a cheap and lame title that some give to those who see the Truth clearly regarding the many lies that exist in the hadiths collections.  It is a form of cheap intimidation.  It doesn't work nor does it have any value in the market of knowledge and objectivity.  I've written a detailed post with some irrefutable strong examples of ridiculous and blasphemous hadiths about this at:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047

As I said before, this is why what agrees with the Holy Quran from both the Hadiths and also the Bible and other Scriptures we accept as closest to the Truth, but not absolute Truth like the Holy Quran, and what disagrees with the Holy Quran we reject.

And as expected akhi, you did not and could not answer the above problem.  The hadith in this thread is not what the Holy Quran Said.  In fact, it is against what Allah Almighty Said in the Holy Quran:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/shooting_stars_miracle.htm

And as to your response that you emailed me, it was filled with emotional and personal attacks on the other brother.  Nothing of substance was in it.  I wanted to end the fitnah, akhi.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: Contradicting Hadith!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2014, 02:24:57 AM »
Indeed , I thought you'd say such a thing . Getting angry with someone for ignoring what you say , but worse than that , insulting Allah and prophet Muhammad is a bad thing . However , apparently , the insults themselves are OK ! Saying that prophet Muhammad - And I ask the lord forgiveness for I'm just telling what's been said - faced "Demise" is OK ! And you talk about Fitnah and disorder ? And because you didn't , this guy here thinks he won and keeps repeating what I keep showing is wrong every single post .

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If you have noticed in the Debate about evolution. The only reason why they rejected evolution is because they support Hadiths when the Quran is clear on the matter  :(..Imagine how many people (atheists) have left Christianity because it rejects evolution. That was part of the reason why I left. Now just imagine Muslims present to them the truth that the Quran supports evolution....but, we don't because the hadiths contradict the Quran and we uphold the hadiths and use them (a collection of sayings collected by humans) in order to interpret a divine book. Shame on us. This verse also makes it clear that those who uphold baseless hadiths don't think they are diverting others from the path of God (notice the verse says "without knowledge"). This is the case with many Muslims, unfortunately.

So either he has some serious disorders or he just pretends not to understand . And the infinite stubbornness doesn't help with the case . If we're going to laugh it off and ignore such fundamental difference under the excuse of "We're all Muslims" then how can what's true be distinguished from what's false ?

The main problem with whoever reads a narration and then decides it's contradicting Quran is that they didn't bother think "Am I understanding this wrong ? Maybe I should look for an explanation" . Instead , they immediately take the easy way and say "Hadith is corrupted , end of the story" . You say that Hadith does contain error and that saying so doesn't label a person as a rejector . Where did he say that ? He says all of it is corrupted because of some fantasies he has like "The writers were all Persians , so Hadith must be corrupted" . And the statement that they are is false in itself . He's saying that ALL Hadith cannot be trusted . And trust me , such people are the ones who will later tell you that there are only 3 prayers per day , that the Friday prayer is forged "Bid'a" , and as we saw in the thread , saying "Peace upon him" to the prophet is a human innovation .

Wither it has "value" or not , you have a person rejecting Hadith and refusing to take it as a second revelation , what am I supposed to call that ?

As for not answering the problem , I didn't read it honestly at the time . Looking at it now , where on Earth is the so called problem ? The sign of Quran says that Allah has decorated the lowest heaven with "Masabeeh" and made them "Rujuum" for devils . There are different possible explanations for this which clearly none of you bothered read about :
http://library.islamweb.net/newlibrary/display_book.php?idfrom=3513&idto=3513&bk_no=48&ID=2978

And now , what's the problem in the narration ? Farhan lists it in :

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They say from the above Hadith it's clear that Quran is talking about something seen directly from Earth. But we know that cosmic rays aren't seen from the Earth.

And I say : What on Earth do cosmic rays have to do with anything ? Among all the explanations I looked through , nothing talked about them . It either says that parts of the "Lamps" separate and hit the devils or that these lamps are places from which the devils are stoned with . Are you telling me you want to deem this narration wrong because it will contradict your personal interruption that the mentioned lamps are "Cosmic rays" ? Or am I missing something ? And here's an idea for you . If you can read Arabic , then you better go straight to the original source . That way you can spare us the misunderstanding and the whole "Hadith is corrupted" mania .
« Last Edit: January 14, 2014, 03:07:33 AM by Black Muslim »

 

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