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Messages - Kamil ali

Pages: 1 [2]
16
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Bismillah
« on: June 09, 2018, 12:46:52 PM »
Jazak Allah

u cleared my doubt  :)

17
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Bismillah
« on: June 07, 2018, 06:39:01 PM »
Walekumassalam brother
But here two things two to consider first that is Bismillah part of surah or not if it is then why

18
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Bismillah
« on: June 07, 2018, 03:42:30 PM »
Non Muslim asking  why God would begin with the words bismillah, ar-Rahman, ar-Raheem ("in the name of God, the most merciful, the most benevolent").

19
wa ʾantum fa-jazākumu-llāhu khayran"

20
This my rebuttal to his argument

He Wrote

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already (1 John 4:1-3 ESV).”

Muslim apologists will often selectively cite these first three verses of 1 John 4 in order to try to demonstrate that Muhammad passes this test of prophethood. They argue that since Muhammad confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh that therefore Christians ought to consider Muhammad a true prophet. Sami Zaatari, for example, argues:

Muhammad perfectly fits the description of a BELIEVER according to these passages! …

So note, the person who confesses that Jesus is the Christ, is from God. Those who do not confess that Jesus is the Christ are the anti-Christ. Therefore Muhammad is from God, the prophet Muhammad did confess that Jesus is the Christ; … (Source)

The error in this type of argumentation is clear in light of the fact that 1.) The meaning of confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh is misunderstood by Zaatari and 2.) The test of prophethood is not simply limited to v. 1-3; the test extends throughout the entire chapter. Regarding point 1, there are two major interpretations. The first is that “confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh” is to be taken as a s tatement about Jesus’ incarnation – God becoming man (John 1:1-3, 14; Philippians 2:6-11, John 8:58). This is the view of scholars like Dr. Francis A. Schaeffer who remarked:

“The Spirits and prophets are to be tested by whether they confess that Jesus “is come in the flesh,” a confession that has two elements of content. It affirms both that Jesus existed before and also that He has come in the flesh. In other words, spirits and prophets must acknowledge both Jesus’ pre-existence and His incarnation.”1

Hence, Muhammad fails this test since he did not affirm that Jesus pre-existed as God and became a man in the incarnation as the Scriptures clearly teach

My Response

Meaning of confessing that Jesus is come in flesh is misunderstood

Let's see who misunderstood the topic

For Jesus incarnation it's already refuted
 visit http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/christology_rebuttal.htm

For Philippians 2:6-11 is it Jesus saying all these?? No and crucification is already proven to be lie and it even contradict with John 14:28

He Wrote

The second interpretation is that “confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh” is to be taken as a polemic against an early Gnostic heretic sect called Docetism which, because of their Gnostic presupposition, believed all matter to be evil and hence rejected the belief that Jesus was truly man. They believed Jesus was only a spirit or phantom.2 However, even if this were the proper interpretation it can still be argued that “has come in the flesh” is a reference to both Jesus’ true humanity as well as his pre-existence and incarnation. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. In order for Jesus to truly “come in the flesh” in human form it assumes he came from somewhere (pre-existence) and based on the totality of Scripture we ought to conclude that Jesus came in the flesh after leaving His exalted status in Heaven as the second person of the Trinity.

My Response

These are also already refuted

Visit http://www.answering-christianity.com/john1_1_refuted_in_quran.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/john1_1_refuted_in_quran.htm

And John 8:40 clearly proves that Jesus was absolutely human and brother Sami has already refuted allegation against it
http://www.answering-christianity.com/sami_zaatri/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_14.htm

He Wrote

If Zaatari is going to take the surface level approach and claim this means anyone who says Jesus is Messiah and was truly alive is from God, then he would have to say Joseph Smith, the prophet of Mormonism was a true prophet since Smith affirmed that Jesus was the Messiah and that he lived.3 Obviously Zaatari would not say such a thing so when Zaatari says that since Muhammad believed Jesus was the Messiah who lived without question proves “Muhammad is from God” he must be consistent and say it proves Joseph Smith is from God as well. As we have seen Zaatari does not understand the Christological nature of 1 John 4:1-3 and thus his argument falls apart.

My Response

May be because ur scripture says that but Quran rejects it means no prophet came between Jesus and prophet Muhammad pbuh

He Wrote

Zaatari’s second error is that he assumes the prophethood test is limited to v. 1-3. However, as we will see, the entire chapter contains tests that people must pass in order to be true Christians and that Muhammad fails the test. For example, to demonstrate that Muhammad is an anti-Christ who must not be followed, 1 John 4:15 says:

“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God” (1 John 4:15 ESV).

This clearly shows that the testing does not end at v.3. In v. 15 we see that in order to be considered in God (a true believer), you must confess that Jesus is the Son of God. However, this is something the anti-Christ Muhammad emphatically denied:

“Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is (S. 19:34-35 Pickthall).”

Therefore, according to the 1 John 4 prophethood test Muhammad is a false prophet.

My Response

Verse 4:15 says that one must believe that he is son of God then he will pass the test

May be author didn't know that son of God also means servent of God
Visit http://www.answering-christianity.com/son_translation.htm

He wrote

We are also told that the true message of God’s love is that not only does the Father have a Son but the Son was sent to die for the sins of His people.

“In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10 ESV).”

Muhammad fails and is shown to be a false prophet with the spirit of anti-Christ since he rejected Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice on the cross for our sins and claims that Allah tricked everyone to believe the crucifixion!

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain (S. 4:157 Pickthall).”

My Response

With regard to God's love it's not about test he was explaining to them about love of God
And crucification were never prophecies and psalm says that he will not be harmed

He wrote

Conclusion

Although Muslim apologists appeal to 1 John 4 as if it validates Muhammad, we have shown that they do not understand what it means to confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. We have seen that this is a reference to Jesus’ pre-existence as God and His incarnation. Moreover, we have seen that the prophethood test does not end at v. 3 but continues throughout the chapter and clearly shows that Muhammad is a false prophet with the spirit of anti-Christ since he rejects Jesus’ Son-ship and crucifixion – the clear message of the Gospel that saves.

Christ has Risen, He is Lord.

My Response

Conclusion

Since by all the fact it is clear that he passed the test

Note: I've not done anything rather posted the linkes
Thank you

21
Jesus himself said that psalm spoke about him

Luke 24:44 New International Version (NIV)
44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

22
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Malachi 3:1
« on: June 06, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »
Jazak Allah brother

23
Walekumassalam brother

He responded by saying

Jesus went to died which is clear voilation of OT this proves that NT is currupt and The cursed satan QUOTED Psalm 91 to Jesus challenging Jesus to jump. Jesus simply told him that yes, while the promise of GOD Almighty to protect me from all harm and death is there, but the scripture also says:

"...
Really where is this a violation of the Old T, Moses himself intervened twice to spare the people 32:11-14, 32:30-35

Trying to apply Pslam 91 AGAIN like as of Satan did to Jesus and was rebuked? When Jesus says do not test God hes quoting Deuteronomy 6:16 stating that it is wrong for him to abuse his own powers

Where is it clear in bible about this?, its all over the new Testmenet, Its a well known fact that the Romans used a method of crucifixion for execution

can you prove those Pslams are Messanic?

24
Assalamualaikum

While debating a Christian in reply to psalm 91 he said

jesus did not agree with him, he rebuked him with what scripture also says,.Again though your applying what Satan deemed fit to apply to the Messiah

You dont even see that no matter how you slice it, you take SATANS APPLICATION, or rather MISAPPLICATION, of scripture and build your case on Satans understanding , or rather MISUNDERSTANDING, while the Messiah COUNTERS that quote from Psalm 91 and debunks the application!

He did it with Peter too

Matthew 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and SUFFER many things at the hands of the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and that he must be KILLED and on the third day be raised to life.22 Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. “NEVER LORD!” he said. “THIS SHALL NEVER HAPPEN TO YOU!”23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, “GET BEHIND ME SATAN FOR YOU ARE A STUMBLING BLOCK TO ME; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.

Notice that Peter made the same argument that YOU are making here when the Messiah told him that he was to suffer and die. He says that the Messiah will never be hurt. Jesus rebukes him and tells him that he is a stumbling block to Him. Clearly the Messiah had nothing to do with Psalm 91. He Himself totally rejects it when people try to apply it to Him and He rebukes those that try to tell Him that God will not let Him suffer

Can some one help me please..

25
Assalmualykum

These are not mine word this was present in answering Islam website
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already (1 John 4:1-3 ESV).”

Muslim apologists will often selectively cite these first three verses of 1 John 4 in order to try to demonstrate that Muhammad passes this test of prophethood. They argue that since Muhammad confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh that therefore Christians ought to consider Muhammad a true prophet. Sami Zaatari, for example, argues:

Muhammad perfectly fits the description of a BELIEVER according to these passages! …

So note, the person who confesses that Jesus is the Christ, is from God. Those who do not confess that Jesus is the Christ are the anti-Christ. Therefore Muhammad is from God, the prophet Muhammad did confess that Jesus is the Christ; … (Source)

The error in this type of argumentation is clear in light of the fact that 1.) The meaning of confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh is misunderstood by Zaatari and 2.) The test of prophethood is not simply limited to v. 1-3; the test extends throughout the entire chapter. Regarding point 1, there are two major interpretations. The first is that “confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh” is to be taken as a s tatement about Jesus’ incarnation – God becoming man (John 1:1-3, 14; Philippians 2:6-11, John 8:58). This is the view of scholars like Dr. Francis A. Schaeffer who remarked:

“The Spirits and prophets are to be tested by whether they confess that Jesus “is come in the flesh,” a confession that has two elements of content. It affirms both that Jesus existed before and also that He has come in the flesh. In other words, spirits and prophets must acknowledge both Jesus’ pre-existence and His incarnation.”1

Hence, Muhammad fails this test since he did not affirm that Jesus pre-existed as God and became a man in the incarnation as the Scriptures clearly teach. The second interpretation is that “confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh” is to be taken as a polemic against an early Gnostic heretic sect called Docetism which, because of their Gnostic presupposition, believed all matter to be evil and hence rejected the belief that Jesus was truly man. They believed Jesus was only a spirit or phantom.2 However, even if this were the proper interpretation it can still be argued that “has come in the flesh” is a reference to both Jesus’ true humanity as well as his pre-existence and incarnation. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. In order for Jesus to truly “come in the flesh” in human form it assumes he came from somewhere (pre-existence) and based on the totality of Scripture we ought to conclude that Jesus came in the flesh after leaving His exalted status in Heaven as the second person of the Trinity.

If Zaatari is going to take the surface level approach and claim this means anyone who says Jesus is Messiah and was truly alive is from God, then he would have to say Joseph Smith, the prophet of Mormonism was a true prophet since Smith affirmed that Jesus was the Messiah and that he lived.3 Obviously Zaatari would not say such a thing so when Zaatari says that since Muhammad believed Jesus was the Messiah who lived without question proves “Muhammad is from God” he must be consistent and say it proves Joseph Smith is from God as well. As we have seen Zaatari does not understand the Christological nature of 1 John 4:1-3 and thus his argument falls apart.

Muhammad Fails the 1 John 4 Test

Zaatari’s second error is that he assumes the prophethood test is limited to v. 1-3. However, as we will see, the entire chapter contains tests that people must pass in order to be true Christians and that Muhammad fails the test. For example, to demonstrate that Muhammad is an anti-Christ who must not be followed, 1 John 4:15 says:

“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God” (1 John 4:15 ESV).

This clearly shows that the testing does not end at v.3. In v. 15 we see that in order to be considered in God (a true believer), you must confess that Jesus is the Son of God. However, this is something the anti-Christ Muhammad emphatically denied:

“Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is (S. 19:34-35 Pickthall).”

Therefore, according to the 1 John 4 prophethood test Muhammad is a false prophet. We are also told that the true message of God’s love is that not only does the Father have a Son but the Son was sent to die for the sins of His people.

“In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins (1 John 4:10 ESV).”

Muhammad fails and is shown to be a false prophet with the spirit of anti-Christ since he rejected Christ’s propitiatory sacrifice on the cross for our sins and claims that Allah tricked everyone to believe the crucifixion!

“And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain (S. 4:157 Pickthall).”

Conclusion

Although Muslim apologists appeal to 1 John 4 as if it validates Muhammad, we have shown that they do not understand what it means to confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. We have seen that this is a reference to Jesus’ pre-existence as God and His incarnation. Moreover, we have seen that the prophethood test does not end at v. 3 but continues throughout the chapter and clearly shows that Muhammad is a false prophet with the spirit of anti-Christ since he rejects Jesus’ Son-ship and crucifixion – the clear message of the Gospel that saves.

Christ has Risen, He is Lord.

Sorry for any mistake but please refute this

27
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Malachi 3:1
« on: June 05, 2018, 09:04:40 AM »
What about these

Matthew 11:10
This is the one about whom it is written: 'Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way before You.'

Matthew 11:14
And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come.

Mark 1:2
As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way."

Luke 1:76
And you, child, will be called a prophet of the Most High; for you will go on before the Lord to prepare His ways,

Luke 7:27
This is the one about whom it is written: 'Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way before You.'

John 1:6
There came a man who was sent from God. His name was John.

John 1:7
He came as a witness to testify about the Light, so that through him everyone might believe.

John 2:14
In the temple courts He found men selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and money changers seated at their tables.

28
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Malachi 3:1
« on: June 04, 2018, 09:27:00 AM »
A Christian says that Malachi 3:1 refers to Jesus where yahewah says that he will send his messenger who will prepare a way before me
He argues that here messenger is John pbuh and before me is Jesus Christ pbuh
Kindly refute this....

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