Post by: QuranSearchCom on October 12, 2012, 01:27:24 PM
Post by: There is only one God on December 17, 2012, 11:39:52 AM
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 18, 2012, 09:07:01 AM
Post by: There is only one God on December 18, 2012, 09:28:23 AM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 22, 2012, 06:10:44 PM
Quote
You have separated Islam with Shi'ism. I find that highly offensive.
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,
I am one that studied the shias sect very carefully. Like some of you here, I used to consider them as Muslims. Shias to me are divided into two:
1- The liars and infidels among them.
2- The ignorants.
Shias call unto creations of Allah Almighty for:
1- Help.
2- Protection.
3- Guidance.
4- Mercy.
5- Forgiveness.
I have compiled an Arabic version of THEIR TOP SCHOLAS that proves this beyond any doubt. You can't call unto Ali, or Fatimah, or anybody or any creation before you do something, nor to BEG THEM to accomplish something, and still call yourself a Muslim. The shia scholars boldly justify this by saying that Allah is far and doesn't always hear us, nor is He always connected with us. The people of the Bayt (House of the Prophet) are always connected to us and always listen to us and always intercede for us. Total and utter blasphemy and nonsense! Islam came to fight and end shirk (associating partners with Allah Almighty). Even satan recognizes Allah Almighty is One, and Muhammad and all of the Prophets and Messengers are His Prophets and Messengers. Now does that make satan a Muslim?
Furthermore, shias call Ali "Amir Al-Kawn", or the Amir (Leader, Ruler) of the Universe. Ask any shia scholar this question: Who is Amir Al-Kawn? His answer will always be Ali. This is also blasphemy and an insult on Allah Almighty Himself.
Like I said, I used to be like you, who considered shias as Muslims. But after I investigated them thoroughly, I couldn't possibly accept them as Muslims. I will translate the Arabic video into English for you to see, insha'Allah. You'll then see what I am talking about without any doubt.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: Tanveer on December 23, 2012, 06:04:31 AM
Post by: Black Muslim on December 23, 2012, 08:12:57 AM
Quote
"The shia scholars boldly justify this by saying that Allah is far and doesn't always hear us, nor is He always connected with us. The people of the Bayt (House of the Prophet) are always connected to us and always listen to us and always intercede for us"
That's rude to God ! He says in Quran :
"And when My servants ask you, [O Muhammad], concerning Me - indeed I am near. I respond to the invocation of the supplicant when he calls upon Me. So let them respond to Me [by obedience] and believe in Me that they may be [rightly] guided."
Saying such things defies God's sayings .
Quote
"Islam came to fight and end shirk (associating partners with Allah Almighty)"
Just for knowledge , it's called polytheism . I guess you already know . But that's for the ones who don't talk in Arabic .
Post by: RamziBinNabil on December 23, 2012, 01:15:23 PM
Post by: There is only one God on December 23, 2012, 03:46:36 PM
Post by: Egyptian on December 23, 2012, 04:38:16 PM
answering-christianity
not wasting times answering the Islamic minor sects....
Christians are more than happy when watching muslim vs muslim disputes....
thanx...
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 23, 2012, 05:05:12 PM
Quote
I despise hadith. More than that, I despise those who separate Shi'as despite the Qur'an specifically warning against the punishments for dividing the Muslims. After the 1500s, we started going backwards. One cause: Lack of unity. I'd rather leave Islam like I did before than be divided.
I don't know why you despise the Hadiths. But it's important for you to know akhi that the Shias' hadiths collection came much much later than the Sunnis collections. And the Sunnies have far more Hadiths than the Shias.
As to seperating the Muslims, my problem with the Shias is in their polytheism. When they beg and pray to creations of Allah Almighty for:
1- Help.
2- Protection.
3- Guidance.
4- Mercy.
5- Forgiveness.
then that's something I just can't ignore as a Muslim. I am currently translating my Arabic video about them into English as I am typing this post (I took a break). Once I am done, insha'Allah, I will upload it and let you know. You see with your eye and you tell me if they're Muslims or not after you watch what THEIR TOP SCHOLARS SAY AND DO AKHI. Deal? Most Muslims are just plain ignorant of what the Shias really are.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: Egyptian on December 23, 2012, 05:37:30 PM
They missed the true meaning of pure monotheism which necessarily requires directing the worship to Allah alone ,without any mediator ...
he is the only Helper, Protector,merciful,forgiver ,whether in heaven or on Earth.
still our duty as Sunnis who follow the path of the prophet peace be upon him and his companions may Allah bless their souls ,to remind such minor sects with such basic goal of Islam (to abolish shirk in all its form) ,in a civil way , never calling them polytheists ,as long as they are not aware of what shirk means....
I know many shia abstained from such practices after sincere advices ....
Holy Quran 3:159 It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (their faults), and ask for (Allah's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 23, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 23, 2012, 06:23:54 PM
Quote
although the shia are misguided they are, technically, still muslims since they only worship the one God
No they're absolutely not! Like you dear brother, I used to defend the shias with a great passion. But after I studied their religion carefully, I saw that it's 100% polytheism. Just please give me till tomorrow to upload the English version of the video, and then YOU DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS TELL ME AFTER THAT whether the shias are Muslims or not. Deal?
By the way, I don't consider the ignorant ones among them as polytheists. But their leaders, imams and religion are 100% polytheist, and YOU'LL SEE THAT BY YOURSELVES, and you yourselves will tell me that yes they are. Insha'Allah. Just give me till tomorrow please.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 23, 2012, 08:23:41 PM
Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv. This is part 1. In Parts 2 and 3 you'll see how they say the most despicable things that they say about the Glorious Quran! They also call it "their Quran", and not "our Quran". Our Holy Quran is a corrupt book to them.
I want you to tell me how IN ALLAH ALMIGHTY'S HOLY NAME do you still call them Muslims after seeing minute 08:17 in this video! Could any Sunni scholar dare to say anything like this on TV?? Yet, their top scholars say these things on their TVs, and they have successful TV programs too.
As always, all criticisms are more than welcomed with me. Please speak your minds freely, dear brothers and sisters in Islam. If you feel I am very wrong, then please say so.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 23, 2012, 08:45:32 PM
I'll fix the video and regenerate it again, insha'Allah. I did this very quickly for you brothers and sisters. I'll make it much better insha'Allah and make official update on the website with it along with other work that I am doing.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: There is only one God on December 24, 2012, 01:39:08 AM
However, I am 100% sure that the Jews corrupted the hadith (Bukhari was a Jew). The non Muslims really use these hadith to slam Islam.
Jewish belief 1 - Allah has arms and feet
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 541:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "Paradise and Hell (Fire) quarrelled in the presence of their Lord. Paradise said, 'O Lord! What is wrong with me that only the poor and humble people enter me ?' Hell (Fire) said, I have been favored with the arrogant people.' So Allah said to Paradise, 'You are My Mercy,' and said to Hell, 'You are My Punishment which I inflict upon whom I wish, and I shall fill both of you.'" The Prophet added, "As for Paradise, (it will be filled with good people) because Allah does not wrong any of His created things, and He creates for Hell (Fire) whomever He will, and they will be thrown into it, and it will say thrice, 'Is there any more, till Allah (will put) His Foot over it and it will become full and its sides will come close to each other and it will say, 'Qat! Qat! Qat! (Enough! Enough! Enough!) .
2) A she monkey committed adultery
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188: Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-lslamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
3) Book 30, Number 30.1.7 is just plain disgusting
4) Volume 9, Book 93, Number 530:
Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes."
I've even heard them say Allah will give us an angry look on the day of judgement. Allah has no form! Even deism makes more sense in front of these hadith. Deism is like, God is one, but he didn't send revelation. He has no form either, and he's unified with nature.
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 360:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
While Allah's Apostle was carrying stones (along) with the people of Mecca for (the building of) the Ka'ba wearing an Izar (waist-sheet cover), his uncle Al-'Abbas said to him, "O my nephew! (It would be better) if you take off your Izar and put it over your shoulders underneath the stones." So he took off his Izar and put it over his shoulders, but he fell unconscious and since then he had never been seen naked.
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 400:
Narrated Aisha:
Once the Prophet was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact he had not done. The rest is too inappropriate to write here
Women compared to dogs and donkeys
Book 004, Number 1034:
Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: A woman, an *** and a dog disrupt the prayer, but something like the back of a saddle guards against that.
Abu Huraira admits fabrication:
Volume 7, Book 64, Number 268:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
"The Prophet said, 'The best alms is that which is given when one is rich, and a giving hand is better than a taking one, and you should start first to support your dependents.' A wife says, 'You should either provide me with food or divorce me.' A slave says, 'Give me food and enjoy my service." A son says, "Give me food; to whom do you leave me?" The people said, "O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah's Apostle?" He said, "No, it is from my own self."
And the worst, female abuse: Volume 8, Book 82, Number 828:
Narrated Aisha:
Abu Bakr came to towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, "You have detained the people because of your necklace." But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah's Apostle although that hit was very painful.
Post by: Egyptian on December 24, 2012, 04:46:06 AM
I think your position is exaggerated (There is only one God ) I will in a hurry address some of the narration you posted ....
Jewish belief 1 - Allah has arms and feet
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 541:Narrated Abu Huraira:
First :The vast majority of the Jews maintains that God has no body,possesses no physical form. and any reference to God's body is simply a figure of speech, a means of making God's actions more comprehensible to beings living in a material world.
second: Even the Quran has attributes of God eg; hand ,eyes ,etc....
so the Hadith wouldn't be problematic with the Quran ,once it attributes legs .....
the Quranic verses that attribute hands,eyes ,etc... to the almighty ,had been understood both literally (Salafi school ,in past and present)and metaphorically (Ashaari school,etc..).....
still all of them agree that "Nothing like God"
Third: Though I agree that the Hadith could be questioned (just like some other hadiths narrated by Abu Hurrairah).... but that doesn't mean we should mistrust Al-Bukhari....
2) A she monkey committed adultery
Is that story narrated by the prophet (peace be upon him) or any of his companions? the answer is NO.
Narrated Jarir bin 'Abdullah:The Prophet said, "You will definitely see your Lord with your own eyes.
Holy Quran 75:23 Some faces will be radiant on that day, Looking towards their Lord.
we can't see God in our wordly life, but will he enable us to see him ,in the hearafter? the matter was controversal between the literalists and the mutazeli .....and "Allah know best".....
more next post inshallah....
Post by: RamziBinNabil on December 24, 2012, 04:55:47 AM
Secondly, why do you despise Hadith? Hadith is what gives us an insight of the life of Prophet Muhammad (may Almigthy Allah bless him and his family and grant them peace) in addition to giving us a good explanation to many of the verses of the Glorious Qur'an. In addition, many of the rules and regulations of Islam are explained with detail in Hadith, therefore it is important to follow the Hadith.
I don't think Bukhari was Jew. Not all Hadiths are 100% authentic, but not all are fabricated either. If you are a Qur'anist and only trust the Glorious Qur'an, you should become a Sunni as Almighty Allah states Himself, "وَأَنَّ هَٰذَا صِرَاطِي مُسْتَقِيمًا فَاتَّبِعُوهُ ۖ وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا السُّبُلَ فَتَفَرَّقَ بِكُمْ عَن سَبِيلِهِ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ وَصَّاكُم بِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ
And, [moreover], this is My path, which is straight, so follow it; and do not follow [other] ways, for you will be separated from His way. This has He instructed you that you may become righteous.
There's nothing absurd is seeing your Lord in Paradise. Almighty Allah states, "لَهُم مَّا يَشَاءُونَ فِيهَا وَلَدَيْنَا مَزِيدٌ
There they will have all that they desire, and We have more (for them, i.e. a glance at the All-Mighty, All-Majestic)."
Post by: RamziBinNabil on December 24, 2012, 05:11:59 AM
Muhsin Khan
And who believe in (the Quran and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.).". [2:4]
Post by: There is only one God on December 24, 2012, 05:21:06 AM
Post by: RamziBinNabil on December 24, 2012, 05:25:23 AM
Post by: Tanveer on December 24, 2012, 05:55:40 AM
I don't give a crap about whether Shi'as split or not. We must ban the evil hadith that says Moses slapped the angel of death causing him to say "you sent me to a servant who doesn't wanna die".Where is your proof Bukhari was a jew?
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/index.php?page=showfatwa&Option=FatwaId&Id=82871
'As for the story of Prophet Musa with the Angel of death, it is a sound story reported by Al Bukhari, Muslim, Ahmad and Al Nasai: from Abu Huraira that the Prophet said: "The Angel of Death was sent to Moses when he came to Moses. Moses SLAPPED him on the eye. The angel returned to his Lord and said, "You have sent me to a Slave who does not want to die". Allah said, "Return to him and tell him to put his hand on the back of an ox and for every hair that will come under it, he will be granted one year of life". Moses said, "O Lord! What will happen after that?" Allah replied, "Then death". Moses said, "Let it come now". Moses then requested Allah to let him die close to the Sacred Land so much so that he would be at a distance of a stone's throw from it". Abu Huraira added, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If I were there, I would show you his grave below the red sand hill on the side of the road".
Al Nawawi said: "It is also possible that Allah did not send the angel of death when he wanted to terminate his life. It might have been only a test. Prophet Musa might have slapped the man because he was a stranger who got into his house without his consent, ignoring that he was in fact the angel of death. It is lawful in Sharia to take out the eye of the person who looks inside your house without your consent. It is known that the angels came in the form of men to Prophets Ibrahim and Lut (Peace and blessing be upon them) and they did not recognize them. Prophet Ibrahim presented them something to eat before they told him who they were. Prophet Musa also might not have recognized the Angel. But when he come the second time with his eye in its place Prophet Musa recognized him and submitted himself to Allah's Will.
To conclude, we say that the Muslim should believe in these Ahadith and the like, as revelation from Allah The Almighty. If the person's mind and reasoning are short of making him understand the revealed message, he should know that the defect is not in the Sharia it is in his own mind and reasoning as Sharia could include some facts that could not be perceived and fully understood by the human mind.
We ask Allah to guide you to the right path.
Allah knows best.'
Post by: There is only one God on December 24, 2012, 06:20:14 AM
Post by: Tanveer on December 24, 2012, 07:09:10 AM
Why change the hadith? Admit it. The exact words were that Moses slapped the angel of death. Don't change it. Justify it for what it is.No one changed the hadith. Its laughable that you made such a stupid claim. Getting desperate are we?
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 24, 2012, 08:18:09 AM
I think twelvers and zaydis could be considered muslim
Also some branches of the ismailis could be to
However im not sure Alevis could be considered.
Also Alawis, but i think Alevis are more muslim than Alawis.
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 24, 2012, 08:37:00 AM
The one and only god
I'm pretty sure your a quranists, since you believe in only the quran, The shia have they're own hadith and such, they even follow hadith written by the 12 imams (twelvers), may God be pleased with them.
Also in your previous posts you said, although i cant recall, something about the early sahaba, abu bakr or omar, almost all shias reject their caliphate.
Post by: Tanveer on December 24, 2012, 09:14:10 AM
I think it depends on which branch of the shia,Zaydis are very very similar to sunnis.
I think twelvers and zaydis could be considered muslim
Also some branches of the ismailis could be to
However im not sure Alevis could be considered.
Also Alawis, but i think Alevis are more muslim than Alawis.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 24, 2012, 11:40:49 AM
Like I said, any Shia who seeks a creation of Allah Almighty for:
1- Help.
2- Protection.
3- Guidance.
4- Mercy.
5- Forgiveness.
Is 100% a blasphemer. And similarily, any Sunni who seeks Prophet Muhammad's grave for any of the mentioned points is also a blasphemer. I believe Wahabism in Saudi Arabia started primarily because many ignorant people there used to seek the graves for
1- Help.
2- Protection.
3- Guidance.
4- Mercy.
5- Forgiveness.
But back to the Shias, any Shia that claims that Ali is Amir Al-Kawn (Ruler of the Universe) is a kafir (infidel). And quite honestly to my knowledge, just about all of the Shias sects delcare Ali as such.
So, don't be fooled by their sects' titles. I wouldn't ask a Shia which shia sect he/she belongs to. I would rather ask them:
1- Do you call unto the People of the Bayt for:
1- Help.
2- Protection.
3- Guidance.
4- Mercy.
5- Forgiveness.
2- Is Ali Amir Al-Kawn to you?
If they answer yes to any of these, then they are polytheists. Plain and simple. The same goes for the Sunnis and graves as well. This has nothing to do with poltics by the way. In fact, Iran is helping my people in Gaza more than any Sunni country did and does. And Iran is Shia, not Sunni.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 24, 2012, 01:01:49 PM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 24, 2012, 01:37:44 PM
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But the twelvers and zaydis only believe that Ali should have succeeded the prophet, they recognize him as human and only human, although a human in which God has given divine wisdom and courage. However others, such as the alawis dont treat him as such. I repeat only a minority of the shia treat ali as a divine being, such as the alawis and possibly alevis.
I am not sure if I agree with this statement at all, akhi. The shias clearly and indisputably WORSHIP Ahlul Bayt. We see this in their crawling and bowing to the ground before Hussein's grave (may Allah Almighty's peace be upon him). We also see it in their bloody beating and cutting of themselves and even THEIR CHILDREN! Their response to this is that not even their children are equal even to the shoe that Hussein wore, or the sand that Hussein walked on.
This my brother is polytheism!
And by the way, YOU DON'T EVEN OWN your child nor your flesh and blood body! IN the Holy Quran, even your body will testify for you and against you before Allah Almighty on the Day of Judgement: http://www.answering-christianity.com/are_private_sins_allowed.htm. So no, you can not beat the living crap out of your own body, nor cut your own child for the sake of Hussein's shoe, or buggers, or feces or morning breath, or even for Hussein himself. You can't even do it for Muhammad himself, the Prophet of Islam, peace be upon him.
You see, you just can't possibly not despise the shias and their filthy religion. Sunnies are just too dumb and stupid and passive when it comes to Monotheism. We let our ignorants worship graves, and we tolerate the shias' shirks. We get easily fooled and shut up by BS such as:
"Well, as long as they say Allah is One and Muhammad is His Prophet, then we can't declare them infidels."
This my brother is the biggest load of garbage fed to Sunnis to shut them up and to scare them away from standing up for the FUNDAMENTALS OF ISLAM. Just because one may bark that statement in red above, doesn't automatically make him/her a Muslim. Hypocrites and Mushrikeen AMONG THE MUSLIMS, are mentioned in many Noble Verses in the Noble Quran. And using this stupid logic, I don't see how even satan himself isn't a Muslim then!
The Zaydis and Twelves are just another rotten brand from the shias, akhi. Their filth got exposed real bad in the Arab Spring. Aside from their extreme hatered that they had hidden for us, we have COUNTLESS VIDEOS OF THEM calling unto Ali for help, and assuring each others that Ali is there for them.
Like the Sunni Sheikh in the video that I posted said (the one in the very beginning of the video): If they were geniune, then let them declare their innocence from these acts and books that teach such things. If they don't, then their talk is no more than lies.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 24, 2012, 04:46:25 PM
Im not arguing that some shia worship Ali, God be with him, and/or the Ahlul bayt, God be with them, however, I know that the Twelvers and Zaydis dont worship Ahlul Bayt, even their adhan and shahada is there is no god but (the) God.
Alawis treat Ali, God be with him, as divine, however they say that “We are Alawi Muslims. Our book is the Quran. Our prophet is Muhammad. The Ka`ba is our qibla, and our religion is Islam." Ali Sulayman al-Ahmad (syrian alawi muslim)
I cant say for sure they could be considered Muslims (Alawis at least), but Twelvers and Zaidis are muslims because for them, Ali, God be with him, is a righteous man, even, in terms of divinity less than the prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.
This also includes some Ismail sects.
as for others, i dont like to accuse them of being non believers because:
1. I'm not 100% sure (who can be), they could be just misguided, God knows best, its his judgment
2. Isn't it a sin to accuse those that call themselves Muslims to be believers or polytheists?
Anyway, God knows best, however, it think that you should at least change the name from "shia" to "Islam (Shia).
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 24, 2012, 05:22:04 PM
Quote
Peace
Im not arguing that some shia worship Ali, God be with him, and/or the Ahlul bayt, God be with them, however, I know that the Twelvers and Zaydis dont worship Ahlul Bayt, even their adhan and shahada is there is no god but (the) God.
Alawis treat Ali, God be with him, as divine, however they say that “We are Alawi Muslims. Our book is the Quran. Our prophet is Muhammad. The Ka`ba is our qibla, and our religion is Islam." Ali Sulayman al-Ahmad (syrian alawi muslim)
I cant say for sure they could be considered Muslims (Alawis at least), but Twelvers and Zaidis are muslims because for them, Ali, God be with him, is a righteous man, even, in terms of divinity less than the prophet, peace and blessings be upon him.
This also includes some Ismail sects.
as for others, i dont like to accuse them of being non believers because:
1. I'm not 100% sure (who can be), they could be just misguided, God knows best, its his judgment
2. Isn't it a sin to accuse those that call themselves Muslims to be believers or polytheists?
Anyway, God knows best, however, it think that you should at least change the name from "shia" to "Islam (Shia).
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,
Let me ask you this very simple question: Do not the Shias, with ALL OF THEIR SECTS, celebrate Ashura in a bloody way? The answer is yes. Their pictures are all over the internet! And in every Muslim country these pests exist in. So the question here: Why? What right do they have to beat the day lights out of their bodies (which is strictly forbidden in the Holy Quran as I demonstrated above), and cut their children?
And again and again I ask: If they're indeed geniune, then how come they never once came out and denounced these practices and their books that call for these evil and blasphemous and idol-worshiping practices? Aren't they liars playing taqiyyah on us? I hope that you know that a shia is 100% permitted to lie to anyone and everyone anytime they wish. It's in their book, and lying is a main pillar and foundation in their religion.
And what about the Holy Quran? In part 2 of the video, which is only available in Arabic on my website, I have their top scholars also say despicable things about our Holy Quran. You see to them, when the Mahdi returns, he will bring with him the True Quran, which is called Mushaf Fatimah. It was named as such, because they believe that the Angel Gabriel came down to Fatimah after her father (Prophet Muhammad) died and dicated to her and to Ali the REAL QURAN. I've see several debates on Youtube akhi regarding this subject. They don't believe that the Quran that we Sunnis have as the 100% perfect Word of Allah Almighty.
By the way, most of the Arab Shias declare themselves to be twelvers. So even the sects that you refer to are mixed up among them. And their theological views are what I mentioend earlier:
1- They come for pilgrimage to the grave of Hussein crawling on the floor and bowing down to him in worship.
2- They beat themselves and their children with bloody beatings for Hussein and what happened at Karbala 1,400 years ago.
3- They call unto Ali and the rest of Ahlul Bayt for:
(a)- Help.
(b)- Guidance.
(c)- Protection.
(d)- Mercy.
4- IT IS VERY COMMON to see their names such as "AbdulFatimah", "AbdulZahra", etc... They clearly elate these creations on the same level as Allah Almighty. It's like me calling you brother Zulfiqar Subhanahu Wa Taaala.
5- They call Ali Amir Al-Kawn (The Ruler and Lord of the Universe).
These are the mainstream shias in Arabia and in Iran. This is what their top scholars who graduated from Qum and Najaf say akhi. It doesn't get higher than that in authority akhi. These are their top and best. This is like graduating from the Vatican to the Roman Catholics. It doesn't get any higher than this.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on December 24, 2012, 08:02:58 PM
However, the twelvers and the zaydis dont worship ali or the ahlul bayt.
However, we should know that the shia are not like the sunni, who only differ with each other in minor things. The shia differ extraordinary from each other, like how many imams their are, which hadith to follow.
And trust me, although im against the beliefs, i can honestly say that shia have bad press in ksa, i wouldnt trust anything that comes out of the ksa about the shia. And the people from qom are misquoted alot too, especially form the ksa press, not sure about najaf though.
and i studied shia beliefs and found the at least the Twelvers, Zaydis and some Ismailis do not worship ali or ahlul bayt but find them as people who should have succeeded the prophet, andwho have been blessed by divine wisdom.
I think that only the alawis call ali Amir Al-Kawn, i could bewrong on that one though.
about the quran please read the wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia_view_of_the_Quran
PS, i am not joking, iknow they exist but i have yet to find a shia that has those names.
Post by: There is only one God on December 24, 2012, 10:01:20 PM
Sunnism preaches no tolerance of others. Apostates = death. Gays = death. Non-Sunni = death. Non-Muslim = honored.
FACT: Rashad Khalifa was murdered for being a Quranist in 1990 by a Sunni terrorist group
from Wikipedia:
"His followers refer to him as God's Messenger of the Covenant [lie promoted by Sunnis].[6] He promoted a strict monotheism and was a prominent Quranist, rejecting the hadith and sunnah as fabrications attributed to prophet Muhammad by later scholars."
Hadith was made to divide mankind, all that "Kosher is haram" crap:
Quranists can eat food produced by Christians and Jews, as instructed in the ayah 5:5
Quranists do not hold that breastfeeding a non-related adult male will make him unmarriageable
VIOLENCE:
Major punishments approved and applied by the orthodox Sunni and Shi'a madhabs for over a millennium that Quranists reject include:
Stoning for adultery. Instead, Quranists follow the quran's prescribed punishment of 100 lashings[8][14] as the Quran does not differentiate between fornicators or adulterers in this punishment, by use of the word 'Zina' (Arabic: الزنا ) in surah 24:2. The orthodox Shariah law applies lashings only to fornicators as per the Quran, but stoning to adulterers as per Sunnah;
The requirement that the four witnesses of zina must have seen clear penetration during the coitus (though this stringent requirement is rarely applied in practice), as the Quran only requires four witnesses to zina.
Death penalty of homosexuals. The Quran mentions no punishment for homosexuality other than in a specific reference to prophet Lut's community, a punishment which God alone administers. Quranists instead tend to view that if homosexuality is a sin, that is punishable by God alone in the afterlife.
Punishment for apostasy. The Qur'an says "Let there be no compulsion in religion" and does not mention an Earthly penalty for apostasy.
Post by: Tanveer on December 25, 2012, 04:44:10 AM
Do you get your material from JihadWatch? Zulfiqar made a topic called 'apostasy' and guess what? It was about apostasy. Go visit it. I laughed when i saw your little justice system.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on December 25, 2012, 09:02:08 AM
Quote
One is not a polytheist purely because he does not accept Abu Bakr as the successor of the prophet.
We never mentioned these politics in this discussion. And for the record, I am one of the MANY Sunnies who believe that Ali should've been the first Caliph. And I am also one of the MANY Sunnies who is on Ali's side anyday and anytime, and not on the side of Muawiyah's side. But the difference between me and the Shias in this regard is:
1- Muawiyah is still a Muslim. No one can call him a kaafir.
2- Ali's procrastination to go after the killers of Uthman is what caused for splits in his ranks. This started in Madina when Aisha and 1,000 of the Believers went to Iraq to fight them. Ali followed them and fought them instead.
3- Abu Bakr fought the apostates and unified the Muslims. Omar crushed Persia and Rome and spread Islam. Uthman further spread Islam in Africa and Asia. Ali, as a ruler, failed dismally in his rule and turned the Muslims on each others in one civil war after another during his rule. Ali wasn't fit to be a ruler in my oppinion, and till this day we suffer because of his politcal rule.
4- After Ali, peace be upon him, died, Muawiyah continued what Uthman started and opened Turkey and further defeated the Romans there. The reason why many Europeans today are Muslims is because of Allah Almighty's Favour and Will first. And then it is because of Muawiyah.
(a)- It is also worth mentioning that before Ali's and Muawiyah's clashes, Muawiyah (during Uthman's rule) was eyeing the heart of Rome itself (modern-day Italy). He was planning on attacking it from Egypt (a mighty and powerful and rich nation during its days) from land and sea, but mostly the sea. And he actually began funding and building a big Navy in Egypt. This project was completely and forever halted because of the civil war that broke out.
I just want you to see these indisputable facts. While I am with Ali with all my heart, but quite honestly, I JUST WISH HE NEVER RULED!
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: There is only one God on December 25, 2012, 09:49:12 AM
QuoteOne is not a polytheist purely because he does not accept Abu Bakr as the successor of the prophet.
1- Muawiyah is still a Muslim. No one can call him a kaafir.
I just want you to see these indisputable facts. While I am with Ali with all my heart, but quite honestly, I JUST WISH HE NEVER RULED!
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Right dude, I'll explain. Shiism is DEFINED by Ali as a successor. Implying anything else like they're "doomed to hell polytheists" or anything close is Ad Hominem. Second thing, I don't know how Muslims like you can attack other brothers. Being a Muslim for several months now, I still don't have the heart to attack Deism or any Deist, because I know, they're all my brothers, just like Shi'as. Of course, you can go ahead and add the propaganda pics, but don't blame me when they turn up a response showing Osama bin Laden and the Taliban (both Sunni) in THEIR sites. Btw, I would love to see you refute this, it's a hadith compilation:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/12593128/Muslim-is-Never-Sahih
And you attacked Rashad Khalifa as well. He never claimed to be a prophet, only a messenger. He is in no way a founder of a new cult, as when you discover his teachings, you will realize: we are ALL here to spread the message of Allah. We are ALL messengers (see it in [34:28] of the Qur'an)
Good luck with that "everything else is false" attitude,
peace
Post by: Tanveer on December 25, 2012, 10:07:55 AM
Post by: There is only one God on December 25, 2012, 11:50:47 AM
Post by: Tanveer on December 25, 2012, 11:57:34 AM
so did sahih bukhari taliban muttawaSo true! The Prophet PBUH also ate pork AND Jesus PBUH is actually Ganesh.
God forbid anyone actually believing what I said and the crap that spews out of you.
Post by: Black Muslim on December 26, 2012, 05:13:18 AM
http://www.ansarsunna.com/vb/
And if you go "Curse this site ! It's Arabic ! Bring me something English !" then you have this site :
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/forum.php
It may be Arabic but it has a section for different languages .
Post by: Tanveer on December 26, 2012, 06:03:17 AM
Post by: amar on February 02, 2013, 02:34:05 AM
Quran 12:97-98
Narrated By Anas: I heard the Prophet saying, "On the Day of Resurrection I will intercede and say, "O my Lord! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts." Such people will enter Paradise, and then I will say, 'O (Allah) admit into Paradise (even) those who have the least amount of faith in their hearts." Anas then said: As if I were just now looking at the fingers of Allah's Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 600
Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them. Don’t Muslims ask pious Muslims to do this? Don’t Muslims ask those who fast to make dua for them? This is the same and the reason why Muslims do this is because they know the dua of those who fast or are more pious are more likely to be accepted. Shias do the same but ask the most pious of Muslims, the prophets (as) and the Imams (as). The misconception is that Shias make dua to the Imams (as) instead of Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, this is not the case but it’s understandable as people often judge by what they see while ignorant. Like seeing Shias praying on clay tablets, seems like they’re praying to it but rather they are praying on it.
Post by: amar on February 02, 2013, 02:52:11 AM
In the defence of Ali (as), waliyillah
Al-Majlisi narrated from Al-Sadooq that Ali bin Hathram said: “I attended a council with Ahmed bin Hanbal. Ali bin Abi Talib was mentioned. He said: A Sunni could not be a true Sunni unless he held something negative regarding Ali in his heart.â€
Bihar Al-Anwar, Volume 49, Page 261
Narrated By Abu Mijlaz: From Qais bin Ubad: 'Ali bin Abi Talib said, "I shall be the first man to kneel down before (Allah), the Beneficent to receive His judgment on the day of Resurrection (in my favor)." Qais bin Ubad also said, "The following Verse was revealed in their connection: "These two opponents believers and disbelievers) Dispute with each other About their Lord." (22.19) Qais said that they were those who fought on the day of Badr, namely, Hamza, 'Ali, 'Ubaida or Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Harith, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, 'Utba and Al-Wahd bin Utba.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 304
Narrated By Salama: Ali happened to stay behind the Prophet and (did not join him) during the battle of Khaibar for he was having eye trouble. Then he said, "How could I remain behind Allah's Apostle?" So 'Ali set out following the Prophet, When it was the eve of the day in the morning of which Allah helped (the Muslims) to conquer it, Allah's Apostle said, "I will give the flag (to a man), or tomorrow a man whom Allah and His Apostle love will take the flag," or said, "A man who loves Allah and His Apostle; and Allah will grant victory under his leadership." Suddenly came 'Ali whom we did not expect. The people said, "This is 'Ali." Allah's Apostle gave him the flag and Allah granted victory under his leadership.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 52
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 520
*Note the stature of Ali (as), he will be the first to be judged by Allah (SWT), before all other caliphs, he was also given the flag of leadership rather than Abu Bakr and Umar and was given victory by Allah (SWT), it was he who washed and shrouded the holy body of the prophet (saww) and then buried him while the other caliphs left before the burial and washing. After the burial Ali (as) collected the Quran, not Abu Bakr, Abu Bakr and Umar were getting people to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr:
After the death of the Holy Prophet (saww), Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.
Fat'hul Bari in Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Volume 10, Page 386
Al-Fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, Page 30
Al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, Volume 1, Page 165
Al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawood, Page 10
Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 1, Page 67
Al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, Page 79
'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, Volume 20, Page 16
Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Volume 15, Page 112-113
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Chapter 9, Section 4, Page 197
Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, Volume 1, Page 31
Allah's Apostle (saww) said: "There will be affliction after me, therefore whenever it happens follow Ali bin Abi Talib because he separates between the truth and falsehood"
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 11, Page 914 Number 32964
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 11, Page 621 Number 33016
"Whoever obeys 'Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys 'Ali, disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah"
Kanz al-Ummal, Number 32973
The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise."
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 655
Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 4, Page 329
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 12, Page289
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, Volume 10, Page 21-22
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 1, Page 247
The Messenger of Allah (saww) said: "The Shia of Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"
Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, Page 62
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
Sahih Muslim, Book 20, Number 4518
Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle(may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.
Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 141
"We recognised the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."
Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 639, Number 1086
Al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, Volume 3, Page 47
Al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Volume 3, Page 242
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Page 91
The Messenger of Allah said: "Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrisy."
Sahih Muslim, Volume 1, Page 48
Sahih Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 643
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 142
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 84
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 95
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 128
Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Part 1, Page 202
Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 4, Page 185
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 14, Page 462
The prophet said: "Whoever I am his master, Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him?"
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 2, Page 298
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 63
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 12
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 43
Abu Huraira narrated: The Prophet (pbuh) looked towards Ali, al-Hassan, al-Hussein, and Fatimah (pbut), and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 699
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 52
Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 767, Number 1350
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 149
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, Volume 9, Page 169
Al-Kabir, by Tabarani, Volume 3, Page 30
Al-Awsat Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, Volume 2, Page 17
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 7, Page 137
Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 1, Page 221
Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, Volume 3, Page 149
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Page 25
Riyadh al Nadhira Volume 2, Page 199, Chapter "Manaqib 'Ali"
Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Number 6145
*First note that “(pbut)†is mentioned in the hadith when referring to “Ali, al-Hassan, al-Hussein, and Fatimah (pbut)†so saying ‘pbuh’ to the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is said even in Sunni sources. Note the prophet (saww) said "I am in the state of war with those who will fight youâ€, whoever is at war with the prophet (saww) is at war with Allah (SWT), this includes Yazid (la) and his father Muawiya (la). Aisha had a massive grudge against Ali (as) that she even went to “war†against him in the battle of the camel which claimed the lives of up to thirty thousand believers, she continued to hate him till she died and even hated his sons, she had shot an arrow on the tomb of Hassan Ibn Ali (as) from close range. Even during the life of the prophet she hated Ali (as) that she would not mention his name:
Narrated Az-Zuhari: Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah told me that 'Aisha had said, "When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground. He was walking between Al-'Abbas and another man." 'Ubaidullah said, "When I informed Ibn 'Abbas of what 'Aisha had said, he asked me whether I knew who was the second man whom 'Aisha had not named. I replied in the negative. He said, 'He was 'Ali bin Abi Talib."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 761
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 745
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 727
*She even denied Ali (as) was the successor of the prophet as she wanted her father to be his successor:
Narrated Al-Aswad: It was mentioned in the presence of 'Aisha that the Prophet had appointed 'Ali as successor by will. Thereupon she said, "Who said so? I saw the Prophet, while I was supporting him against my chest. He asked for a tray, and then fell on one side and expired, and I did not feel it. So how (do the people say) he appointed 'Ali as his successor?"
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 736
The prophet (saww) had appointed his cousin, Ali, as the caliph over the Muslims after him and had ordered his companions and his wives to congratulate him for this leadership over the believers in Ghadir Khum. Abu Bakr was among the first people to say: "Congratulations, Congratulations to you, O son of Abu Talib. Today you became the master of every believing man and woman".
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 281
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, Volume 12, Page 49-50
Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khateeb al-Tabrizi, Page 557
Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, Volume 1, Part 3, Page 144
Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari
Al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah
Al-Musnad, by Abu Ya'ala
Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn 'Uqdah
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 29 from Abu Huraira
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 596 from Abu Huraira
"Ata Ibn Yasar, who says that a certain person came to Aisha and began to use impudent and abusive words for Ali while Ammar, was in her presence. She said to him: "As regards Ali, I have nothing to tell you, but as regards Ammar, I have heard the Messenger of Allah saying about him that if he has to make a choice between two things he will always choose that which is better from the point of view of good guidance and salvation."
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 6, Page 113
The Prophet of Allah (saww) beckoned to Ali to come close. He came close until he sat between him and Aisha, and he and the Prophet (saww) were clung together. She said to him "Can you not find a seat for this one except on my thigh?" Ibn Abil Hadid also reported that one day the Prophet of Allah (saww) was walking with Imam Ali and the conversation became prolonged. Aisha approached as she was walking from behind until she came between them saying: "What is it between you two that you are taking so long?" Upon this the Prophet of Allah (saww) became angry.
Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, Volume 9, Page 195
Abu Bakr once came to the Prophet of Allah (saww), and sought permission to enter. Before he went in, he heard Aisha's voice raised, saying to the Prophet (saww): "By Allah! I surely know that Ali is dearer to you than me and my father", she repeated this twice or three times".
Musnad Ahmad Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 275
*When Aisha heard of the assassination of Imam Ali (as), she knelt and thanked Allah!!! See History of al-Tabari and the History of Ibn al-Athir on the events of the year 40 AH. She did the same when she heard his wife Fatima Al-Zahra (as) had died from the attack of Umar. She was also involved in intercepting the funeral procession of al-Hassan, the leader of the Heaven's youth, by ordering her followers to shoot arrows on his coffin and she had shot an arrow herself from close range and she also prevented his burial beside his grandfather (the Prophet (saww)), and she said: "Do not let anybody that I don't like enter my house."
Narrated Abu Huraira Ad-Dausi: Once the Prophet went out during the day. Neither did he talk to me nor I to him till he reached the market of Bani Qainuqa and then he sat in the compound of Fatima's house and asked about the small boy (his grandson Al-Hassan) but Fatima kept the boy in for a while. I thought she was either changing his clothes or giving the boy a bath. After a while the boy came out running and the Prophet embraced and kissed him and then said, 'O Allah! Love him, and love whoever loves him.'
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 333
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 90-92
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 772
*Ali (as) also thought bad of Abu Bakr and Umar:
...They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said: "I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said: "We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest....
Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4349-4350
*Sunni scholars will reply to their own hadith by saying Ali (as) named three of his sons, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. This is true but we will ridicule this logic. First Abu Bakr is a kunya, a kind of nickname meaning the father of Bakr so this just shows the scholars who don’t speak Arabic don’t speak Arabic. For the case of Umar and Uthman, was there only one Umar and one Uthman? Their names were widely used, their names weren’t like Hussein which was given by Gabriel (as) to Muhammad (saww) to name the son of Ali (as) after Ali (as) wanted the prophet (saww) to name Hussein (as), a name never used before. One of the governors put in position by Ali (as) had the name Uthman so Ali (as) had loyal companions called Umar and Uthman. Furthermore, Ali (as) said he did not call one of his sons Uthman after the tyrant Uthman, however this is from a Shia hadith so you can choose to ignore it even though we have proved Uthman was a tyrant. Many Sunni hadiths are found in Shia books by the way, only the lies and fabrications are not included. In final, Ali (as) did not name his sons after the three tyrants, nor did the three tyrants name their sons Ali.
Ali (as) is not childish like Muawiya (la) who would curse Ali (as) and encourage people to ridicule anyone with the name Ali so much so people would name their sons Ali just to curse them. One should hate one’s deeds and not his appearance or name. For example, I hate Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahhab (la), the founder of the terrorist sect Wahhabism named after the founder. However that does not mean I will never name my son Muhammad, the name of the last prophet (saww), or AbdulWahhab, Al-Wahhab being one of the names of Allah (SWT). So if someone is your enemy, it doesn’t mean you hold a grudge against their name and curse anyone with that name like Muawiya (la). It can still be said; why did the prophet (saww) marry two of his daughter to Uthman, why did Lut (as) offer his daughter to the unbelievers?
The prophet (saww) said: "Allah have mercy on Ali. Allah make the right and truth with Ali in all situations".
Sunan al Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 297
The Prophet told Ali : "You shall inform my nation about the truth and what they dispute after me."
Kanzul Ummal, by Ali Muttaqi al Hind, Volume 2, Page 612 (Korab Dhieri, Multan)
Al Mustadrak al Hakim, Volume 3, Page 122
This was to prove the greatness of Ali (as), please reply to this and the intercessing Shias do, then I will move on to another topic being misconceptions of Shia and then after that I will move on to Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha. I don't curse them in my work as I know you love them too much.
Post by: There is only one God on February 02, 2013, 06:39:59 AM
To brother Osama,
In the defence of Ali (as), waliyillah
Al-Majlisi narrated from Al-Sadooq that Ali bin Hathram said: “I attended a council with Ahmed bin Hanbal. Ali bin Abi Talib was mentioned. He said: A Sunni could not be a true Sunni unless he held something negative regarding Ali in his heart.â€
Bihar Al-Anwar, Volume 49, Page 261
Narrated By Abu Mijlaz: From Qais bin Ubad: 'Ali bin Abi Talib said, "I shall be the first man to kneel down before (Allah), the Beneficent to receive His judgment on the day of Resurrection (in my favor)." Qais bin Ubad also said, "The following Verse was revealed in their connection: "These two opponents believers and disbelievers) Dispute with each other About their Lord." (22.19) Qais said that they were those who fought on the day of Badr, namely, Hamza, 'Ali, 'Ubaida or Abu 'Ubaida bin Al-Harith, Shaiba bin Rabi'a, 'Utba and Al-Wahd bin Utba.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 304
Narrated By Salama: Ali happened to stay behind the Prophet and (did not join him) during the battle of Khaibar for he was having eye trouble. Then he said, "How could I remain behind Allah's Apostle?" So 'Ali set out following the Prophet, When it was the eve of the day in the morning of which Allah helped (the Muslims) to conquer it, Allah's Apostle said, "I will give the flag (to a man), or tomorrow a man whom Allah and His Apostle love will take the flag," or said, "A man who loves Allah and His Apostle; and Allah will grant victory under his leadership." Suddenly came 'Ali whom we did not expect. The people said, "This is 'Ali." Allah's Apostle gave him the flag and Allah granted victory under his leadership.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 52
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 520
*Note the stature of Ali (as), he will be the first to be judged by Allah (SWT), before all other caliphs, he was also given the flag of leadership rather than Abu Bakr and Umar and was given victory by Allah (SWT), it was he who washed and shrouded the holy body of the prophet (saww) and then buried him while the other caliphs left before the burial and washing. After the burial Ali (as) collected the Quran, not Abu Bakr, Abu Bakr and Umar were getting people to pledge allegiance to Abu Bakr:
After the death of the Holy Prophet (saww), Ali sat down in his house and said that he had sworn an oath that he would not put on his outdoor clothes or leave his house until he collects together the Quran.
Fat'hul Bari in Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, Volume 10, Page 386
Al-Fihrist, by (Ibn) an-Nadim, Page 30
Al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, Volume 1, Page 165
Al-Masahif, by Ibn Abi Dawood, Page 10
Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 1, Page 67
Al-Sahibi, by Ibn Faris, Page 79
'Umdatul Qari, by al-Ayni, Volume 20, Page 16
Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Volume 15, Page 112-113
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Chapter 9, Section 4, Page 197
Ma'rifat al-Qurra' al-kibar, by al-Dhahabi, Volume 1, Page 31
Allah's Apostle (saww) said: "There will be affliction after me, therefore whenever it happens follow Ali bin Abi Talib because he separates between the truth and falsehood"
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 11, Page 914 Number 32964
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 11, Page 621 Number 33016
"Whoever obeys 'Ali, obeys me, whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, whoever disobeys 'Ali, disobeys me, whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah"
Kanz al-Ummal, Number 32973
The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise."
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 655
Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 4, Page 329
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 12, Page289
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, Volume 10, Page 21-22
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 1, Page 247
The Messenger of Allah (saww) said: "The Shia of Ali are the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"
Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, Page 62
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet (may peace be upon him) said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
Sahih Muslim, Book 20, Number 4518
Zirr reported: 'Ali observed: By Him Who split up the seed and created something living, the Apostle(may peace and blessings be upon him) gave me a promise that no one but a believer would love me, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against me.
Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 141
"We recognised the hypocrites by their hatred of Ali."
Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 639, Number 1086
Al-Istiab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, Volume 3, Page 47
Al-Riyad al-Nadirah, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Volume 3, Page 242
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Page 91
The Messenger of Allah said: "Loving Ali is the sign of belief, and hating Ali is the sign of
hypocrisy."
Sahih Muslim, Volume 1, Page 48
Sahih Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 643
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 142
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 84
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 95
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 1, Page 128
Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari, Volume 1, Part 1, Page 202
Hilyatul Awliya', by Abu Nu'aym, Volume 4, Page 185
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 14, Page 462
The prophet said: "Whoever I am his master, Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him?"
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 2, Page 298
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 63
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 12
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 43
Abu Huraira narrated: The Prophet (pbuh) looked towards Ali, al-Hassan, al-Hussein, and Fatimah (pbut), and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 699
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 52
Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 767, Number 1350
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 149
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, Volume 9, Page 169
Al-Kabir, by Tabarani, Volume 3, Page 30
Al-Awsat Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, Volume 2, Page 17
Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 7, Page 137
Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 1, Page 221
Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, Volume 3, Page 149
Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, Page 25
Riyadh al Nadhira Volume 2, Page 199, Chapter "Manaqib 'Ali"
Mishkat al-Masabih, by Khatib al-Tabrizi, English Version, Number 6145
*First note that “(pbut)†is mentioned in the hadith when referring to “Ali, al-Hassan, al-Hussein, and Fatimah (pbut)†so saying ‘pbuh’ to the members of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is said even in Sunni sources. Note the prophet (saww) said "I am in the state of war with those who will fight youâ€, whoever is at war with the prophet (saww) is at war with Allah (SWT), this includes Yazid (la) and his father Muawiya (la). Aisha had a massive grudge against Ali (as) that she even went to “war†against him in the battle of the camel which claimed the lives of up to thirty thousand believers, she continued to hate him till she died and even hated his sons, she had shot an arrow on the tomb of Hassan Ibn Ali (as) from close range. Even during the life of the prophet she hated Ali (as) that she would not mention his name:
Narrated Az-Zuhari: Ubaidullah bin 'Abdullah told me that 'Aisha had said, "When the Prophet became sick and his condition became serious, he requested his wives to allow him to be treated in my house, and they allowed him. He came out leaning on two men while his feet were dragging on the ground. He was walking between Al-'Abbas and another man." 'Ubaidullah said, "When I informed Ibn 'Abbas of what 'Aisha had said, he asked me whether I knew who was the second man whom 'Aisha had not named. I replied in the negative. He said, 'He was 'Ali bin Abi Talib."
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 47, Number 761
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 745
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 727
*She even denied Ali (as) was the successor of the prophet as she wanted her father to be his successor:
Narrated Al-Aswad: It was mentioned in the presence of 'Aisha that the Prophet had appointed 'Ali as successor by will. Thereupon she said, "Who said so? I saw the Prophet, while I was supporting him against my chest. He asked for a tray, and then fell on one side and expired, and I did not feel it. So how (do the people say) he appointed 'Ali as his successor?"
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 736
The prophet (saww) had appointed his cousin, Ali, as the caliph over the Muslims after him and had ordered his companions and his wives to congratulate him for this leadership over the believers in Ghadir Khum. Abu Bakr was among the first people to say: "Congratulations, Congratulations to you, O son of Abu Talib. Today you became the master of every believing man and woman".
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 281
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, Volume 12, Page 49-50
Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khateeb al-Tabrizi, Page 557
Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, Volume 1, Part 3, Page 144
Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari
Al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah
Al-Musnad, by Abu Ya'ala
Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn 'Uqdah
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 29 from Abu Huraira
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 596 from Abu Huraira
"Ata Ibn Yasar, who says that a certain person came to Aisha and began to use impudent and abusive words for Ali while Ammar, was in her presence. She said to him: "As regards Ali, I have nothing to tell you, but as regards Ammar, I have heard the Messenger of Allah saying about him that if he has to make a choice between two things he will always choose that which is better from the point of view of good guidance and salvation."
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 6, Page 113
The Prophet of Allah (saww) beckoned to Ali to come close. He came close until he sat between him and Aisha, and he and the Prophet (saww) were clung together. She said to him "Can you not find a seat for this one except on my thigh?" Ibn Abil Hadid also reported that one day the Prophet of Allah (saww) was walking with Imam Ali and the conversation became prolonged. Aisha approached as she was walking from behind until she came between them saying: "What is it between you two that you are taking so long?" Upon this the Prophet of Allah (saww) became angry.
Sharh Ibn Abil Hadid, Volume 9, Page 195
Abu Bakr once came to the Prophet of Allah (saww), and sought permission to enter. Before he went in, he heard Aisha's voice raised, saying to the Prophet (saww): "By Allah! I surely know that Ali is dearer to you than me and my father", she repeated this twice or three times".
Musnad Ahmad Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 275
*When Aisha heard of the assassination of Imam Ali (as), she knelt and thanked Allah!!! See History of al-Tabari and the History of Ibn al-Athir on the events of the year 40 AH. She did the same when she heard his wife Fatima Al-Zahra (as) had died from the attack of Umar. She was also involved in intercepting the funeral procession of al-Hassan, the leader of the Heaven's youth, by ordering her followers to shoot arrows on his coffin and she had shot an arrow herself from close range and she also prevented his burial beside his grandfather (the Prophet (saww)), and she said: "Do not let anybody that I don't like enter my house."
Narrated Abu Huraira Ad-Dausi: Once the Prophet went out during the day. Neither did he talk to me nor I to him till he reached the market of Bani Qainuqa and then he sat in the compound of Fatima's house and asked about the small boy (his grandson Al-Hassan) but Fatima kept the boy in for a while. I thought she was either changing his clothes or giving the boy a bath. After a while the boy came out running and the Prophet embraced and kissed him and then said, 'O Allah! Love him, and love whoever loves him.'
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 34, Number 333
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 57, Number 90-92
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 72, Number 772
*Ali (as) also thought bad of Abu Bakr and Umar:
...They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said: "I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said: "We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest....
Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4349-4350
*Sunni scholars will reply to their own hadith by saying Ali (as) named three of his sons, Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman. This is true but we will ridicule this logic. First Abu Bakr is a kunya, a kind of nickname meaning the father of Bakr so this just shows the scholars who don’t speak Arabic don’t speak Arabic. For the case of Umar and Uthman, was there only one Umar and one Uthman? Their names were widely used, their names weren’t like Hussein which was given by Gabriel (as) to Muhammad (saww) to name the son of Ali (as) after Ali (as) wanted the prophet (saww) to name Hussein (as), a name never used before. One of the governors put in position by Ali (as) had the name Uthman so Ali (as) had loyal companions called Umar and Uthman. Furthermore, Ali (as) said he did not call one of his sons Uthman after the tyrant Uthman, however this is from a Shia hadith so you can choose to ignore it even though we have proved Uthman was a tyrant. Many Sunni hadiths are found in Shia books by the way, only the lies and fabrications are not included. In final, Ali (as) did not name his sons after the three tyrants, nor did the three tyrants name their sons Ali.
Ali (as) is not childish like Muawiya (la) who would curse Ali (as) and encourage people to ridicule anyone with the name Ali so much so people would name their sons Ali just to curse them. One should hate one’s deeds and not his appearance or name. For example, I hate Muhammad Ibn AbdulWahhab (la), the founder of the terrorist sect Wahhabism named after the founder. However that does not mean I will never name my son Muhammad, the name of the last prophet (saww), or AbdulWahhab, Al-Wahhab being one of the names of Allah (SWT). So if someone is your enemy, it doesn’t mean you hold a grudge against their name and curse anyone with that name like Muawiya (la). It can still be said; why did the prophet (saww) marry two of his daughter to Uthman, why did Lut (as) offer his daughter to the unbelievers?
The prophet (saww) said: "Allah have mercy on Ali. Allah make the right and truth with Ali in all situations".
Sunan al Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 297
The Prophet told Ali : "You shall inform my nation about the truth and what they dispute after me."
Kanzul Ummal, by Ali Muttaqi al Hind, Volume 2, Page 612 (Korab Dhieri, Multan)
Al Mustadrak al Hakim, Volume 3, Page 122
This was to prove the greatness of Ali (as), please reply to this and the intercessing Shias do, then I will move on to another topic being misconceptions of Shia and then after that I will move on to Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha. I don't curse them in my work as I know you love them too much.
Great I don't see a problem with it then. Glad it's solved but: I'll still stay a Muslim. The various sects (Sunni, Shi'a Sufi, etc.) are all non Muslims based on a politico-religious ideology
Post by: There is only one God on February 02, 2013, 07:06:24 AM
They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners." He said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Quran 12:97-98
Narrated By Anas: I heard the Prophet saying, "On the Day of Resurrection I will intercede and say, "O my Lord! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts." Such people will enter Paradise, and then I will say, 'O (Allah) admit into Paradise (even) those who have the least amount of faith in their hearts." Anas then said: As if I were just now looking at the fingers of Allah's Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 600
Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them. Don’t Muslims ask pious Muslims to do this? Don’t Muslims ask those who fast to make dua for them? This is the same and the reason why Muslims do this is because they know the dua of those who fast or are more pious are more likely to be accepted. Shias do the same but ask the most pious of Muslims, the prophets (as) and the Imams (as). The misconception is that Shias make dua to the Imams (as) instead of Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, this is not the case but it’s understandable as people often judge by what they see while ignorant. Like seeing Shias praying on clay tablets, seems like they’re praying to it but rather they are praying on it.
I heard you have to place your head on clean Earth, that's why I use clay tablets too.
Post by: amar on February 02, 2013, 09:08:57 AM
Shia Islam is not a non-Muslim political religion, its the true Islam, the Ahlul-Bayt (as) preached only what the prophet (saww) preached, the Sunnis follow the innovations of Umar, I will paste the part of my document showing from Sunni sources the innovations of Umar as well as his crimes, including rape! I just wan't brother Osama to respond to my earlier comments first as he said he "If your religion is correct, then I'll follow it TODAY!". He thought Shias worshipped the Ahlul-Bayt (as), Adhubillah, hopefully he wii know the truth about the Shia, the fastest growing sect within Islam as it is truth and then turn on the scholars that lied to him and the rest of their followers about the Shia just as the Christians did to Islam a few centuries back. He did afterall say about correctness of religion, "If it's not, then I'll continue to fight it." Imam Hussein (as) said before he sacrificed himself, his companions and his family that he wanted to bring back the religion his grandfather, the prophet (saww), preached. So if you are a Shia, you are infact a Muslim, a true Muslim, if there were no other sects we would claim to be Muslims only but since this division happened from the innovated religion we now call ourselves the Shia of Ali (as) as "Ibrahim (as) was from the Shia of Nuh (as)" as said in Surah as-Saffat.
Since you have brought up the prostration on earth, I will paste the part of my document about this for you:
Why do Shias pray on a clay tablet?
'Abdullah b. Unais reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: I was shown Lailat-ul-Qadr; then I was made to forget it, and saw that I was prostrating in water and clay in the morning of that (night). He (the narrator) said: There was a downpour on the twenty-third night and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) led us in prayer, and as he went back, there was a trace of water and clay on his forehead and on his nose. He (the narrator) said: 'Abdullah b. Unais used to say that it was the twenty-third (night).
Sahih Muslim, Book 6, Number 2631
*Because the prophet (saww) never prayed on woven material and he only allowed his companions to pray on wool when the earth was very hot due to the burning sun in Arabia:
Abdullah Ibn Abbas said: He who doesn’t put his nose with his forehead on the Earth/Soil when doing Sajdah (Prostration), his Salat is invalid.
Kanz ul Ummal, Volume 7, Page 464, Number 19802
Al Mu'jam al Awsat, by Tabarani Volume 3, Page 139, Number 4111
Aisha narrated: The Prophet (saww) said: "Gabriel informed me that my grandson al-Hussein will be killed after me in the land of al-Taff and brought me this Turbah (mud/soil) and informed me that this is the soil of the place he will be martyred."
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 3, Page 292
*This is why it’s recommended to pray on soil from Karbala which is made into clay tablets by mixing with water so the soil doesn't fall apart.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 03, 2013, 04:03:15 AM
sallam brother,
Shia Islam is not a non-Muslim political religion, its the true Islam, the Ahlul-Bayt (as) preached only what the prophet (saww) preached, the Sunnis follow the innovations of Umar, I will paste the part of my document showing from Sunni sources the innovations of Umar as well as his crimes, including rape!
Wa Alaikum As'salam,
I look forward to seeing your "facts", to expose them here before everyone. This is a typical deceptive tactic that your people usually come up with. I am familiar with these ridiculous Shia tactics. Nothing new here. They use mere people that they even lie and exaggerate on to divert the topic. I want everyone here to see how this guy is now changing the topic from blaspheming against Allah Almighty to a mere creation like Umar, the 2nd Islami Caliph. A typical shia lie and tactic that is common among the shias.
Quote
I just wan't brother Osama to respond to my earlier comments first as he said he "If your religion is correct, then I'll follow it TODAY!". He thought Shias worshipped the Ahlul-Bayt (as), Adhubillah, hopefully he wii know the truth about the Shia, the fastest growing sect within Islam as it is truth and then turn on the scholars that lied to him and the rest of their followers about the Shia just as the Christians did to Islam a few centuries back.
Only in your wildest dreams are Shias the fastest growing sect. Another deception. Shias now are being exposed by the wholesale throughout the entire Ummah.
Quote
He did afterall say about correctness of religion, "If it's not, then I'll continue to fight it." Imam Hussein (as) said before he sacrificed himself, his companions and his family that he wanted to bring back the religion his grandfather, the prophet (saww), preached. So if you are a Shia, you are infact a Muslim, a true Muslim, if there were no other sects we would claim to be Muslims only but since this division happened from the innovated religion we now call ourselves the Shia of Ali (as) as "Ibrahim (as) was from the Shia of Nuh (as)" as said in Surah as-Saffat.
Let's get few things straight here:
1- Just because you claim to be on a side of certain people, it doesn't mean that you represent them.
2- As Jesus Christ and his Mother Mary, peace be upon them, are innocent from the polytheist trinitarian pagans, the people of Bayt, peace be upon them, are also innocent from the shias.
But notice again everyone, this guy is now reducing the subject to debating about mere people, when I couldn't have made it any clearer that SHIAS ARE INFIDELS BECAUSE THEY ARE POLYTHEISTS, WHO INSULT ALLAH ALMIGHTY. And I have posted two videos that clearly and INDISPUTABLY prove this with ample clips from their top scholars:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
Quote
Since you have brought up the prostration on earth, I will paste the part of my document about this for you:
What??!!
The rest of your quotes are ignored for now, because the main issue here isn't to discuss Hadiths and to refute you and prove that you've taken things out of context by presenting counter Hadiths to refute you. The issue that makes you an infidel and a polythiest is the ONENESS OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY.
I declare that the shias' religion is a blasphemy against Allah Almighty, as christianity today is also a blasphemy against Allah Almighty. Christians don't represent Jesus and is Mother, and your people don't reprent Hussein, Ali, and the rest of the People of the Bayt, peace be upon them. They are all innocent from all of you because you are polytheists. The videos above clearly and indisputably prove this.
Furthermore, and I mentioned in my other reply, any "Muslim" (Shia, Sufi or what have you) who calls upon creations of Allah Almighty for blessings, aid, protection, help, strength and so on is an idol worshiper. So whether it is a person, a grave, or anything, that person has become an idol worshiper. Otherwise, the following Noble Verse has no meaning nor value:
9:31 اتخذوا احبارهم ورهبانهم اربابا من دون الله والمسيح ابن مريم وماامروا الا ليعبدوا الها واحدا لااله الا هو سبحانه عما يشركون
[009:031] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
In fact, Wahabism (a strict Muslim Sunni sect) was born in Saudi Arabia, because of the grave worship by many. They'd go to graves and start seeking blessings, and help, and spiritual aid from the graves. The Shias are even far worse! See their videos when they go to Hussein's grave. It's disgusting!! I have it in the video above. You bow to his grave in worship, and you come to him crawling and bowing down to him. This is not the Islam that I follow. You have taken the People of the Bayt as اربابا من دون الله. Even Prophet Muhammad's grave itself isn't anything holy to me. The Prophet himself further said:
Allah Almighty would rather have the entire Kaaba (the black cubic building in Mecca) be demolished than to have a single drop of blood be shed from a Muslim.
And in another Hadith, he said:
لا تهدمن الكعبة مئة مرة اهون عند الله من موت رجل مسلم
Let the Kaaba be demolished 100 times, is still easier to Allah Almighty than killing a Believer.
So much for polytheism polluting Islam.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: There is only one God on February 03, 2013, 07:15:32 AM
Post by: amar on February 03, 2013, 09:42:58 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjoFvw6Kwr0&list=UUBgM-sKkB4ySrdiCsk0ikUA&index=405
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2U9y33czEw&list=UU7F0zDtfuBeFGheRkSiBwDg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUlOKeyPwUo&list=UUyRjkP_7wFJ3aJr7CEDQQsw&index=5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSlMyg7FzgI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x9MNF298vY
1- I have pasted the part about intercession with the prophet (saww) and the Ahlul-Bayt (as), but you did as all Sunnis do, ignored it and moved on. I will paste it here and extra:
Why do Shias ask Allah (SWT) in the name of Imams (as) and Muhammad (saww) instead of asking directly from Allah (SWT)?
They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners." He said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Quran 12:97-98
Narrated By Anas: I heard the Prophet saying, "On the Day of Resurrection I will intercede and say, "O my Lord! Admit into Paradise (even) those who have faith equal to a mustard seed in their hearts." Such people will enter Paradise, and then I will say, 'O (Allah) admit into Paradise (even) those who have the least amount of faith in their hearts." Anas then said: As if I were just now looking at the fingers of Allah's Apostle.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 600
*Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them. Don’t Muslims ask pious Muslims to do this? Don’t Muslims ask those who fast to make dua for them? This is the same and the reason why Muslims do this is because they know the dua of those who fast or are more pious are more likely to be accepted. Shias do the same but ask the most pious of Muslims, the prophets (as) and the Imams (as). The misconception is that Shias make dua to the Imams (as) instead of Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, this is not the case but it’s understandable as people often judge by what they see while ignorant. Like seeing Shias praying on clay tablets, seems like they’re praying to it but rather they are praying on it.
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Quran 4:64
Al-`Utbi said: ‘as I was sitting by the grave of the Prophet, a Bedouin Arab came and said: "Peace be upon you, O Messenger of Allah! I have heard Allah saying: And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful. (Quran 4:64).
“So I have come to you asking forgiveness for my sin, seeking your intercession with my Lord." Then he began to recite poetry:
O best of those, whose bones are buried in the deep earth,
And from whose fragrance the depth,
And the height have become sweet,
May I be the ransom for a grave which thou inhabit,
And in which are found purity bounty and munificence,
“Then he left, and I slept and saw the Prophet (saww) in my sleep. He said to me: “O `Utbi, run after the Bedouin and give him glad tidings that Allah has forgiven him.â€
Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, Volume 1, Page 532
*Notice here that although the prophet (saww) was apparently dead, he did intercede on behalf of the Bedouin and asked Allah the Most Exalted to forgive all of his sins.
Ibn Hanbal narrates: “a blind person came to the Prophet (saww) and said: 'Pray to Allah that He bestows me with sight'. The Prophet (saww) replied: ‘If you desire, I’ll not pray, as being blind may be better for your afterlife, or I’ll pray’
“The man then chose to be relieved of blindness and the Messenger told him: 'Perform ablution (i.e. Wudu), pray two rak'at and then supplicate to Allah in this way: 'O God! Surely my appeal is to You and I turn towards You through the Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of mercy: O Muhammad, surely I turn towards God through you, that He uncover my sight. O God, make him my intercessor.’ The man did what the Messenger told him and his sight was restored.â€
Musnad Ahmed, Volume 4, Page 138
*Notice here that the prophet (saww) ordered the blind man to turn towards Allah the Most Exalted through him, for he ordered him to say: “O Muhammadâ€. Additionally, although the prophet (saww) was not with him at the time he recited the Dua, Allah the Most Exalted did cure him and restored his eyesight. Furthermore, there is no difference in asking the prophet (saww) to intercede on our behalf during his lifetime or after his martyrdom as proved in the Al-`Utbi’s narration, for he is alive and is provided sustenance:
And never think of those who have been killed in the cause of Allah as dead. Rather, they are alive with their Lord, receiving provision,
Quran 3:169
*Needless to say, making duas to Allah (SWT) through the Ahlul-Bayt (as) is also permissible, for Imam Ali (as) is nothing but an extension of the prophet’s personality as stated in the holy Quran:
Then whoever argues with you about it after [this] knowledge has come to you - say, "Come, let us call our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves, then supplicate earnestly [together] and invoke the curse of Allah upon the liars [among us]."
Quran 3:61
*The same is the case for Imam Hussain (as), as the prophet (saww) said: “Hussain is from me and I am from Husseinâ€. There are in fact numerous narrations that state the same about each and every member of the Ahlul-Bayt (as).
Why do Shias build masjids on the graves of the Imams?
And thus did We make (men) to get knowledge of them that they might know that Allah's promise is true and that as for the hour there is no doubt about it. When they disputed among themselves about their affair and said: Erect an edifice over them-- their Lord best knows them. Those who prevailed in their affair said: We will certainly raise a masjid over them.
Quran 18:21
*After Allah (SWT) reveals this in the Quran He does not condemn it or say what they did was wrong and the fact that he included it in the Quran means that this is acceptable.
2- You did not reply to my comment on Ali (as), answer them please.
3- The part of the comment about prostrating on clay (earth) was not for you, it was from him, he already knew intercession was allowed, you should have just ignored it and went back to see my previous comments on page 3.
4- Since you like to use videos of certain Shia scholars, let's drop down to you level and do the same, because its fun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izz_1ICO3N0&list=UU2_1wjpCP53EHRWkP_zrHWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9KlyNV4YU&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYrZXgOjd4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP8NVdVw-v0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOrDiO9eCPw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGyMRoUjQ84
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHjy16huIeY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj65hMFYk3U&list=UUyRjkP_7wFJ3aJr7CEDQQsw&index=50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRjxedKkUZ0&list=UUyRjkP_7wFJ3aJr7CEDQQsw&index=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ted-NxBbhng&list=UUpBvIBfZ-foo5ZbLH5O0N4g&index=90
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYV1pAnXpsE&list=UU2_1wjpCP53EHRWkP_zrHWQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPUJF7B4Caw&list=UU2_1wjpCP53EHRWkP_zrHWQ&index=135
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKAcKrT0neU&list=UU2_1wjpCP53EHRWkP_zrHWQ&index=310
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z51KSU_ypqE&list=UUeIKA_IXsY1c9PIelnWBG9Q&index=62
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWQBanqj-C8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POWuiDVvJxE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tZFRd5XN4s&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFBHSKc_x40&list=UUBgM-sKkB4ySrdiCsk0ikUA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvPM62sKXoE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp4_7nw1AEs
You deny Shia Islam is not the fastest growing sect within Islam, let's take example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moxc14JzchQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yblysi_d5SQ&list=UUyRjkP_7wFJ3aJr7CEDQQsw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSQ8ym37zzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIbqCPOwCaI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHmmZxdFi2M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWNkSKsRfEM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlqOGlkF_N0
To my other brother, please also watch and recite sahada to be complete Muslim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEvdve3AF3A
Sallam
Post by: There is only one God on February 03, 2013, 09:56:55 AM
Post by: adnaanshaikh195 on February 03, 2013, 10:09:44 AM
Shia's aren't even muslims.
They worship there imams before God.
Some of them, claim that Ali is God.
SOme of them Ali should've recieved Prophethood/Qur'an instead of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
Go away, you dumb Shia. You aren't muslims, you kill muslims but you side with the disbelievers, fools.
Post by: amar on February 03, 2013, 11:35:27 AM
adnan, read my comment, read it, I have refuted your points in it.
Post by: amar on February 03, 2013, 11:44:31 AM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 03, 2013, 02:47:11 PM
Quote
Ban this shia fool.
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
Please cool down everyone. I didn't open this section to ban Shias. Brother Amar said his beliefs, and I respect him for that. Let's have a civil dialogue insha'Allah and get to the bottom of all of this.
I'll respond in details to his materials today, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: The Canadian Atheist on February 03, 2013, 04:33:45 PM
One of two things could happen:
1) The religious end up blowing up the planet
2) The religious kill each other in a battle, then we can start over again
Post by: amar on February 03, 2013, 05:18:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWTJow1jM34
Operation Northwoods
The mass terrorism acts including the biggest, the droping of nukes on civilians and the even worse plan b as was recently revealed.
Peace
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 03, 2013, 09:12:54 PM
In this rebuttal to broter Amar, you will see, insha'Allah, how truly bankrupt and desperate and ridiculous the Shias. First of all, and again and again, I don't know brother Amar is reducing the topic to debating creations of Allah Almighty, when my point couldn't be any clearer about the reason why I consider the Shias' religion to be a religion of infidels, is because of the insults that they insult Allah Almighty with, and the true polytheism and idol worship that they have engraved into their religion from:
1- Glorification of the people of the Bayt.
2- The worship of their graves (bowing them, coming to them crawling on the ground, beating their bodies and their children and cutting themselves and their children into bloody mess).
It is clear that such practices are 100% polytheism and a glorification to creations of Allah Almighty, and association of partners with Allah Almighty.
Furthermore, brother Amar's links, which can be easily refuted, are mostly concerned about attacking mere creations of Allah Almighty. Now let me destroy this guy and his false cult and religion regarding this very point:
Brother Amar, tell us all WHO MADE THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU ATTACK?
My question is not who created them. Obviously, Allah Almighty created them. My question is: Who made them? Who elated them and raised them to become the Muslims' leaders after the Prophet died? Please answer the following questions:
1- Regarding Abu Sufyan, the leader of the hypocrites as you call him, in tribal Arabia, why did the Prophet of Islam make him his father in law? Why did the Prophet of Islam marry his daughter? Why did the Prophet of Islam make him the leader of Mecca after the liberation of Mecca when he said to the pagans that whoever enters the house of Abu Sufyan will be safe.
2- Regarding Muawiyah, the son of Abu Sufyan, why did the Prophet of Islam marry his sister? And why did he make him a leader of the Muslims by making him and his father be among the top seniors and most recognized people during his lifetime?
3- Regarding Abu Bakr, the first Islamic Caliph and the father of all hypocrites according to you, and the one who is even below satan in Hell, why did the Prophet of Islam marry his daughter Aisha? And why was Abu Bakr the Prophet's best friend, and one of his closest companions even according to your own sources?
4- Regarding Umar, the second Islamic Caliph and the one who is above Abu Bakr in Hell and under satan, WHY DID ALI (YOUR god and lord) MARRY HIS DAUGHTER TO HIM (Umar married Ali's daughter)?!
5- Regarding Uthman, the 3rd Islamic Caliph and the bastard who put Muawiyah and others in rulership in Iraq, Syria, Egypt and other places (as Muslims were on a roll and conquoring much of Africa and Asia) according to you, why did the Prophet of Islam marry him TWO OF HIS DAUGHTERS?! After the first one died, Uthman married the second daughter of Prophet Muhammad. This is why Uthman is called the one of the two lights (Dhul Noorayn), because he married two of the Prophet's daughters.
6- Regarding Aisha, the Prophet's second wife, his most beloved after Khadijah (his first wife after she passed away), the daughter of Abu Bakr (the 1st Islamic Caliph), and the whore as you call her. Why did the Prophet of Islam marry a whore? Why did he give her this status and honor to be his wife?
You see Amar and your Shias, the more you insult these people the more YOU WIPE THE FLOOR WITH THE PROPHET OF ISLAM, THEIR MAKER! It's that simple and that obvious. And no, you don't have the Truth regarding them. Your people's hate made them make up fabricated stories on them. Like I told you before Amar (in a personal reply), your narrations came 100s of years after ours! By the way, you also wipe the floor with Ali, your god, as well because:
1- Umar married Ali's daughter.
2- Ali made peace with Muawiyah, and his son Hasan further honored that peace. Hussein wanted to start the civil war crap all over again, and he was advised to not to to Iraq from Medina because the people of Iraq will not stick to their words with him. They will betray him as they did to his father, and they will betray him as they poisoned his son, Hasan, who's also Hussein's brother. Hussein didn't listen to the advise and went up to Iraq, he was cut off, killed, and his head was dragged from Karbala all the way to damascus.
While I am with Hussein anyday anytime, but honestly he should've just let it go, because he would never even be 10% as mighty and powerful and popular as his father, Ali, but still his father failed and gave in and made peace. Yes Ali was right and Muawaiyah was wrong, but Ali made peace with Muawiyah and ended the fight for good. Hussein had no right to restart the bloodshed!
So why don't you be man enough now and condemn the Prophet of Islam for all of this, Amar? After all, he should take the grand blame for all of this, because he made all of these people and put them in senior authority! Hussein was killed because of Prophet Muhammad, according to your logic!! Plain and simple. So why not be honest and say the Truth?
The www.answering-christianity.com analogy:
Let me give you this analogy to make it easier for you to understand. As you may know, this website has an Authors Section (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac25.htm#links). A number of brothers wrote many articles for this website in the past.
Now suppose you open their sections, and read their many articles and find out that most of their articles are low and despicable ones! The overwhelming majority of them are:
1- Pornographic.
2- Alcohol promoting.
3- Drugs promoting.
4- Prostitution seeking and promoting.
5- Contain COUNTLESS f*** words in them.
IN THE HOLY NAME OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY I ASK YOU THIS AMAR: What would this say about Osama Abdallah, the owner of www.answering-christianity.com then? Answer this with all honesty if you are not a liar and a coward!
Now regarding calling unto the creations of Allah Almighty for intercession, I already answered this in the email reply that I sent you, but I'll elaborate on it in GREAT DETAILS IN MY NEXT REBUTTAL TO YOU, insha'Allah. Stay tunned.
(still not finished, but I'll submit so I don't get timed out)
Post by: amar on February 03, 2013, 10:49:23 PM
before I start I will like to thank you for not banning me and for replying only on the blog, I am only using Sunni hadiths here and won't curse the main symbols you love like Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha so no resentment is felt and only logic is applied, though I do hate their deeds, very much.
Why don't you just admit it, you hate the Ahlul-Bayt (as). You are the type of person who would have followed Aisha in the war with Ali (as) which cost the lives of 30000 Muslims. I am going to give brief replies, but am gonna give put a large part to refute you. However first you have not replied to these following points that I proved with your hadiths:
1- Muhammad (saww) interceded both during and after his martyrdom.
2- Yacoub (as) interceded for his sons, why didn't he tell them to ask yourselves, they didn't, they just went straight to him as they knew their duas are pretty much useless after their crimes.
3- That the prophet (saww) made Ali (as) leader, your books not ours, refer to my previous post about Ali (as) where Abu Bakr said to Ali (as) after the deceleration at Ghadeer, "Congratulations, Congratulations to you, O son of Abu Talib. Today you became the master of every believing man and woman".
4- The prophet (saww) said "I am in the state of war with those who will fight you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you" to Ali, al-Hassan, al-Hussein, and Fatimah (as). So from this alone Muhammad (saww) is at war with Abu Bakr, Aisha, Muawiya and Yazeed.
5- Read the rest about Ali (as), I expect you to refute each hadith individually, something you missed out as its from your books, some 'sahih' so definitely happened.
To your comment now:
1- We glorify the Ahlul-Bayt (as) because the prophet (saww) did, if you dare say Aisha was part of the Ahlul-Bayt (as) then I will paste you the part of my document that refutes you using Quran and your two 'sahih' books.
2- We worship their graves? Have you been there, have you seen a Shia pray and "bow" towards them instead of the kibla. Shias crawl in a show of humility, we will never forget the sacrifice Imam Hussein (as) the prophet (saww) would cry for. We don't associate them with Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, you associating Shias with deviant groups like Alawites.
3- Since you have insulted the practices of the prophet (saww) and that of lady Zainab (as) I will paste the part of the document that once read, you must repent if you know what's best for you:
Why do Shias mourn Imam Hussein (as) annually?
Abd al-Rahman b. Yazid said: When al-Ash'ath b. Qais entered the house of 'Abdullah he was having his breakfast. He ('Abdullah b. Umar) said: Abd Muhammad (al-Asha'th), come near to the breakfast. Thereupon he said: Is not today the day of 'Ashura? He ('Abd al-Rahman) said: Do you know what the day of 'Ashura is? He said: What is it? He said: It is a day on which the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to observe fast before the (fasting) in the month of Ramadan (became) obligatory. But when it became obligatory the (fasting of 'Ashura) was abandoned (as compulsory). Abu Kuraib said: He (the Holy Prophet) abandoned it.
Sahih Muslim, Book 6, Number 2510-2513
*Here we see Muhammad (saww) abandoned celebrating Ashura by abandoning the fast of Ashura, let’s see why:
Ummul Fadhl the daughter of al-Harith said that she entered on the Messenger of Allah (saww) and she said: “Oh! Messenger of Allah, I saw a strange dream last night. He said: And what is it? She said: It was difficult. He said: And what is it? She said: I saw, as if, a piece of your body was severed and was put in my lap! The Messenger of Allah (saww) said: You saw well - Fatima will give birth, God willing, a boy so he will be in your lap. Then Fatima gave birth to al-Hussein and he was in my lap - just as the Messenger of Allah (saww) said. So I entered one day on the Messenger of Allah (saww) and put him in his lap, but I noticed that the eyes of the Messenger of Allah (saww) pouring tears! So I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, my parents are your ransom, what is with you? He said: Gabriel came to me and informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill this son of mine.â€
Al-Mustadrak al-Sahih, al-Hafidh al-Hakim al-Nisapouri, Volume 3, Page 176
Dalael al-Nubouwa, al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqi under the subject of al-Hussain
Cf. Ibn al-A'tham 4, (Hyderabad, 1971), Page 211-212
Umm Salama said: "al-Hussain entered on the Prophet (saww), while I was sitting at the door, so I saw in the hand of the Prophet (saww) something he turned over while (Hussain) sleeping on his stomach. I said: Oh messenger of Allah, I looked and saw you turning something over in your hand when the kid was sleeping on your stomach and your tears were pouring? He said: Gabriel came to me with the sand upon which he (Hussain) will be killed. And he informed me that my nation (ummah) will kill him."
Al-Musannaf, al-Hafidh abu Bakr bin abi Shaibah, Volume 12
Al-Musnad, Ahmad bin Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 60-61
Al-Taba'qat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad
Al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Hafidh al-Tabarani (on subject of al-Hussain)
A'lam al-Nubuwwah, al-Mawardi al-Shafi
Kanz al-Ummal, al-Muttaqi al-Hindi
Ahmed and Ibn al-Dhahhak narrated from Ali: “I entered on the prophet (saww) and his eyes were flooded, I said: Oh! Prophet of Allah, anyone made you angry? Why are your eyes flooded? He said: Gabriel just left me telling me that al-Hussain will be killed by the river Euphrates. He (the Prophet) said: So he (Gabriel) said: Do you want me to let you smell his dirt (from his burial pot)? I said: Yes! He reached with his hand and grabbed a handful of dirt and gave it to me. So I could not help it and my eyes were flooded.â€
Thakhaer al-Uqba, Muhibbuldeen al-Tabari, Page 148
Ibn Saad, Ali bin Muhammad, Yahya bin Zakariya, a man heard it from 'Amir al-Sha'bi say: “When Ali passed by Karbala in his march to Siffien and lined up with Nainawa - a village on the Euphrates - he stopped and called one of them men: Tell aba 'Abdullah (al-Hussain) what this land is called? He said: Karbala. Then he cried until the earth was wet from his tears. He then said: I entered on the messenger of Allah (saww) and he was crying. So I said: What makes you cry? He said: Gabriel was with me, just now, and informed me: that my son al-Hussain will be killed at the banks of Furat in a location called Karbala. Then Gabriel grabbed a handful of dirt and let me smell it. So I could not help it, my eyes overflowed.â€
Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, Ibn Saad
Al-Musannaf, Ibn Abi Shaibeh, Volume 12
Al-Moejam al-Kabeer, al-Tabarani, Volume 1
Tareekh al-Shamm, Ibn 'Asakir
*Here we see that Muhammad (saww) was the first one to mourn Hussein (as), he was the one who started the majlis where people would cry for Hussein (as), the Shia didn't innovate this practice, it was the Sunnah of Muhammad (saww). We also find here the reason why out of all the materials of earth to prostrate on, Shias choose the "dirt" of Karbala over leafs, pebbles and sand which is permissible to prostrate on and the woven cloth which is not permissible to prostrate on as Muhammad (saww) only prostrated on earth and the "dirt" of Karbala was dearest to Muhammad (saww) out of all the dirt, i.e. the best part of earth to prostrate on is the earth of Karbala.
Now to the practices of mourning by the Shia during Ashura (10th Muharram), we will jump in to the most controversial practice in the eyes of the non-Shias; tatbir (bloodletting) which was first practiced by lady Zaynab (as). This is when one makes a cut just over his forehead and lets their blood spill. First reaction people say this is self-inflicting harm, to an extent this is true as a very small minority do die and do get disabilities from this, a very small minority. To respond to this, when people go to Hajj does not a very small minority die? Does not a very small minority become disabled? The answer is yes this in fact happens but Muslims will never abandon Hajj now as it’s a religious practice, the same case applies here, for the Shia, tatbir is a religious practice so it will never be abandoned.
Now people can still say no, cutting oneself is haram as it causes self-harm, in fact the prophet (saww) would do cupping so it’s not injuring oneself. Cupping is the releasing of blood from the forehead, the same place where blood is released during tatbir. Cupping is used to remove 'dirty' blood, blood that the body does not want which collects in the head:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Buhaina: Allah's Apostle was cupped on the middle of his head at Lahl Jamal on his way to Mecca while he was in a state of Ihram. Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle was cupped on his head.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 601
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 595
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 598-600
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet was cupped while he was fasting.
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 71, Number 597
*We see here that the prophet (saww) even did cupping while fasting and while in the state of Ihram, this shows that tatbir is a pure act, not a hated act but a highly recommended act, the prophet's favorite medicine was cupping. Let’s now see examples of self-beating to show distress by the prophets (as):
Hadhrath Adam (as) was so distressed that he smashed his hands onto his knees and the skin from his hands caused gashes from which bone could be seen.
Ma'arij al Nubuwwa, Chapter 1, Page 248
"When life was breathed into the spirit of Adam (as) he hit his hand on his head and cried. He made this tradition of beating one's head with one's hand and crying in times of trouble for his descendants."
Mudharij al Nubuwwa, Page 221
"On one occasion Gabriel approached Prophet Yusuf (as) in Zundh and conveyed the news that his father had become blind on account of his weeping for him. Yusuf (as) hit his hand on his head and said 'O I wish my mother did not give birth to me, so that I would have not become the cause of such sadness to my father'".
Tafseer Kabeer, Volume 5, Page 158
*Now we will see this act being done by the noblest of prophets (saww):
"Rasulullah (saww) was in a state where he was hitting his chest."
Sahih al Bukhari, Volume 2, Page 50
Sunan al Nasa’i, Volume 3, Page 305
Adhan al Mufreed, Page 426
Sahih Muslim, Volume 1, Page 291
Musnad Abu Awana, Volume 2, Page 292
Ibn Hajr Asqalani in the commentary of this tradition in Fathul Bari, Volume 3, Page 90 writes: "This Hadith demonstrates that it is permissible to bang your hand at a moment of distress".
Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib: That Allah's Apostle came to him and Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle at their house at night and said, "Won't you pray?" 'Ali replied, "O Allah's Apostle! Our souls are in the Hands of Allah and when he wants us to get up, He makes us get up." When 'Ali said that to him, Allah's Apostle left without saying anything to him. While the Prophet was leaving, 'Ali heard him striking his thigh (with his hand) and saying, "But man is quarrelsome more than anything else.†(18.54)
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 446
*Now let’s see the companions of Muhammad (saww) do the same:
When Ayesha was defeated and Ali (as) saw the corpses on the ground he began to beat his thighs.
Tauhfa Ithna Ashari, Page 523
"When the situation of the Prophet worsened, Bilal emerged beating his head and loudly wailing, 'I wish my mother had not given birth to me, and that if she had I wish that I had died before this day'"
Mudharij al Nubuwwa, Volume 2, Page 441
*Now let’s see the wives of the prophet (saww) do the same:
I heard Ayesha saying "The Messenger of Allah died on my bosom during my turn, I did not wrong anyone in regard to him. It was because of my ignorance and youthfulness that the Messenger of Allah died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my chest and slapping my face along with the women".
Al Tabari in History Volume 9 page 183
Bidayah wa al Nihayah, Volume 5, page 420
*Do you dare insult this act knowing your dear mother slapped her face, you know that part in the video you show someone beating his face from despair, either remove it or insult your mother. Let’s now see the daughter of the prophet (saww) do the same:
Sheikh Abdul Haq Mohaddis Hanafi Dehlavi recorded that: "Fatima Zahra (as) hearing the rumor of the martyrdom of the Holy Prophet (s) at Uhud came out of her house running and beating her head".
Mudharij al Nubuwwa, Volume 2, Page 163
*Let’s see an example of self-beating in the Quran where Sara (as) struck her face when she was told that she would conceive a baby:
And his wife approached with a cry [of alarm] and struck her face and said, "[I am] a barren old woman!"
Quran 51:29
*Now let’s see the prophet (saww) approval of such acts:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ata ibn Abdullah al-Khurasani that Said ibn al-Musayyab said, "A Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allah (saww) beating his breast and tearing out his hair and saying, 'I am destroyed.' The Messenger of Allah (saww) said, 'Why is that?', and he said, 'I had intercourse with my wife while fasting in Ramadan.' The Messenger of Allah (saww) asked him, 'Are you able to free a slave?', and the man said, 'No.' Then he asked him, 'Are you able to give away a camel?', and the man replied, 'No.' He said, 'Sit down,' and someone brought a large basket of dates to the Messenger of Allah (saww) and he said to the man, 'Take this and give it away as Sadaqa.' The man said, 'There is no one more needy than me,' and (the Messenger of Allah (saww)), said, 'Eat them, and fast one day for the day when you had intercourse.'"
Malik's Muwatta, Book 18, Chapter 9, Number 29
*The action of the Bedouin was a result of spiritual pain he suffered as his fast was invalidated. He was beating his chest and tearing his hair in presence of Holy Prophet (saww) who didn’t object to his actions which shows he approved of his actions. The most explicit proof of self-inflicted injury comes from Owais al-Qarni (ra) the great Muslim Sahaba, praised by both Shia and Sunni erudite. He had an immense love for the holy prophet (saww):
When the news reached Owais al-Qarni (ra) in Yemen that two teeth of the prophet (saww) were broken in the battle of Uhud, he extracted all his teeth. When the prophet (saww) got the news in Medina that Owais had struck down all his teeth, he exclaimed, "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend".
Seerate Halbia, Volume 2, Page 295
"Owais al-Qarni (ra) said to Umar Khattab (ra): 'If you were true in friendship than why on the day when the holy teeth of the Prophet (saww) were broken didn't you break your teeth in companionship? Because, it is a condition of companionship.' Then he showed his teeth all of which were broken and said 'I broke all of my teeth without seeing you (O Prophet) and in the state of Ghabah in your companionship. I had broken one tooth but couldn't get satisfaction so kept on breaking them one by one until I had broken them all '".
Tadhkhirathul Awliya, by Shiekh Farid al Din Attar, Page 17-18
Had the breaking of teeth by Owais al-Qarni (ra) been in opposition to Shariah, Umar would certainly have pointed it out at the time or at least commented and answered the accusation by Owais al-Qarni (ra) of his less than perfect companionship. The silence of Umar proves that he didn't deem the act of breaking one's teeth as done by Owais al-Qarni (ra) as opposed to Shariah but considered it an act of sincerity and also a proof of friendship.
We should point out that breaking one's teeth is a thousand times more painful than the beating of one's chest for a few hours. It is more extreme than chest beating with chains or knives (Zanjeer) because those who have suffered from tooth ache will understand the immense pain that circulates in the mouth and head. Compare the removal of a tooth to the forced removal of a full set of teeth using a stone without the benefit of modern day anesthetics and instruments. The pain must have been unbearable. This was clearly an act of great courage.
This shows that mourning the death of Hussein (as) is Sunnah and taking part in mourning practices that helps one to remember the pain of Imam Hussein (as) is Sunnah. After reading this a previously ignorant non-Shia should never criticise this act that Shias perform, of course the blame of this is down to the scholars and leaders of the Muslims who hide this knowledge from the people they are supposed to lead to heaven, the people they are rather deviating. The fact is there are even Shias and Shia leaders who oppose this out of shame in front of non-Shias and their fear to take part of such acts and only prefer to beat their chest lightly. I say non-Shia as this is also for Christians who oppose this practice:
"Howl, Heshbon, for Ai is despoiled. Cry aloud you villages round Rabbath Ammon, put on sack cloth and beat your breast and score your body with gashes"
Jeremiah 49:3
*Other examples include Isaiah 22:12, Isaiah 32:11, Luke 23:48, Ezekiel 27:31, Jeremiah 7:29 and more.
Now concerning wives of the prophet (saww), why did Lut (as) and Nuh (as) marry their wives?
Ali (as) did not marry his daughter to the person who killed her mother, what logic is this. You Sunnis love to jump on this without using your logic, I can prove this in detail by many ways and let me know if you wan't me too, but use your logic for now.
This is enough for now, but since you bought up Abu Bakr, I will give you a snippit of my document about Abu Bakr just using the Quran:
If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out [of Makkah] as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down His peace upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
Quran 9:40
*First we can see who has greater trust in Allah (SWT) and his messenger (saww), Abu Bakr would “grieve†while with the prophet (saww) and Ali (as) would sleep in his bed waiting for his killers. Also notice what Allah (SWT) did? He sent down His peace upon "him" not upon them. The Arabic word used is singular. Why did Allah (SWT) not send down peace upon the second of the two, Abu Bakr? Let us see who Allah (SWT) sends his peace to:
Then Allah sent down His peace upon His Messenger and upon the believers and sent down soldiers angels whom you did not see and punished those who disbelieved. And that is the recompense of the disbelievers.
Quran 9:26
When those who disbelieved had put into their hearts chauvinism - the chauvinism of the time of ignorance. But Allah sent down His peace upon His Messenger and upon the believers and imposed upon them the word of righteousness, and they were more deserving of it and worthy of it. And ever is Allah , of all things, Knowing.
Quran 48:26
I expect you to refute each Hadith in your book and each verse in the Quran and please have a go in refuting the videos, refute how your great leader Adnan Aroor lied about the history of the prophet (saww). I would like to for next time justify Shia acts like the way we do wudu, the way we pray and so on. However, if you would like me to go straight into Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha bashing or showing who are the Ahlul-Bayt (as), please let me know, you will be like a Christian or a Jew, all surprised in what's in their own books, the Bible and the Talmud. Trust me on this, the second you read it you will know your scholars are liars and deniers of the truth.
I do request you to ask Allah (SWT) for guidance to the truth and just pretend if you have to, that you don't belong to the sect of the 73 that's on the right path as you and I both know now Shia Islam is the fastest growing sect within Islam as its truth.
Post by: The Canadian Atheist on February 04, 2013, 02:29:54 AM
Religion is absurd.
If you want a longer explanation: The 'science' in religion is only accurate to the era it originated from. For example, in the Qur'an, it doesn't talk about fasting in the countries where the Sun never sets. Second thing: Mohamed was not illiterate. He was part of the secret society, which explains all of the 'scientific miracles' (it was the knowledge the gnostics had sealed but did not reveal to the public except by a supposed book from God, to make it easier for people to believe in the coming ages). However, the heliocentric model is not mentioned anywhere in the Qur'an, surely a real God would know any better? The illuminati has deliberately created these religions to make them war each other. Why do the bible, Torah, and the Qur'an all contradict each other so precisely? Exactly. Wake up.
Honestly, religion has caused people to blow the crap out of each other. There should not be any more suffering. Don't you guys read your own Qur'an? 2:256 states you cannot coerce.
Post by: amar on February 04, 2013, 08:09:07 AM
you know they say Atheists are usually quiet clever, but i guess you ain't part of 'usually' as you think the illuminati created three different religions that are linked together (a triangle!!!!) under One God. The fact is many scriptures were sent down and four are mentioned in the Quran, 3 that you know of and the other being sent to Abraham (as). Islam is the truth which is why its the fastest growing religion in the world even the imperfect Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. We have scholars to follow as mentioned by the Quran in making decisions like fasting at the poles, you are to follow the country nearest with a night and day. Our scholars also give us opinions on different issues like how to deal with inter-sex people, the ruling on chess, the ruling on 'the pill', all these not invented by the Grace of God at the time of Muhammad (saww), according to your logic, God has to send a scripture every few years for new dealings. See the miracles of the Quran and just focus on them, see the miracle of the preservation of Pharaoh which cause Dr Maurice Bucai to convert to Islam, see the mathematical miracles, the literature miracles, all Signs of God of which He Diversifies for the masses. See the unique design of this universe, the constants that allow us to be alive. These miracles along with others are what causes top scholars to accept Islam when they read the Quran.
People with some knowledge in science become atheists and people with plenty of knowledge in science know there has to be a God.
Peace
Post by: adnaanshaikh195 on February 04, 2013, 12:51:04 PM
He is claiming Shiites are the right and guided sect.
Does he not know that it is HARAAM to divide in islam?
The Glorious Qur’an says:
“And hold fast, altogether, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves.” [Al-Qur’an 3:103]
Which is the rope of Allah that is being referred to in this verse? It is the Glorious Qur’an. The Glorious Qur’an is the rope of Allah which all Muslims should hold fast together. There is double emphasis in this verse. Beside saying ‘hold fast all together’ it also says, ‘be not divided’.
The Qur’an further says,
“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger” [Al-Qur’an 4:59]
All the Muslims should follow the Qur’an and authentic Ahadith and ensure that they are not divided among themselves.
2.It is prohibited to make divisions in Islam.
The Glorious Qur’an says:
“As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.” [Al-Qur’an 6:159]
In this verse Allah (swt) says that one should disassociate oneself from those who divide their religion and break it up into sects.
But when one asks a Muslim, “who are you?” the common answer is either ‘I am a Hanafi or Shafi or Maliki or Hanbali. Some call themselves ‘Ahle-Hadith’.
3.Four Schools of Thoughts
The Islamic world has produced several learned Islamic scholars (Imams), but out of these, four became more famous and their teachings spread in different parts of the world.
It is a misconception that a Muslim should follow any one of these four schools of thoughts i.e. Hanafi, Shafi, Hanbali or Maliki. There is no proof whatsoever in the Qur’an or any authentic Hadith that a Muslim should only follow one of these four Imams.
4.Respect all the Great Scholars of Islam.
We must respect all the great scholars of Islam, including the four Imaams, Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Hanbal and Imam Malik (may Allah be pleased with them all). They were great scholars and may Allah reward them for their research and hard work. One can have no objection if someone agrees with the view and research of any one or more from these four great scholars of Islam.
5.All Four Imam said follow the Qur’an and Sunnah.
All the four great Imams said that if any of their Fatwas or teachings contradict Allah’s word, i.e. the Qur’an, or the sayings of the Prophet (pbuh) i.e. authentic Hadith, then that particulars Fatwa of theirs should be rejected, and the Sunnah of the Prophet should be followed.
Qur'an and Sunnah is what you need, not grave worshipping, or worshipping Imams lmao.
I follow the Islam that Umar, Abubakr, Aisha followed.
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) gave to me is the one I follow, not your jewish Shiite sect LOL.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 01:14:10 PM
Before we begin, I'd like all readers to first watch this brief video about the despicable Shias and their pagan rituals to get a real perspective and feel of what we're talking about when we declare them to be true 100% polytheists and pagans:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
Now to the refutation...
Sallam
before I start I will like to thank you for not banning me and for replying only on the blog, I am only using Sunni hadiths here and won't curse the main symbols you love like Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha so no resentment is felt and only logic is applied, though I do hate their deeds, very much.
Wa Alaikum As'salam,
I know you're too polluted with your false religion of worshing creations. I get the same thing from the ignorant ones from the Christians about us supposedly worshing Prophet Muhammad. Even after explaining to them 100 times that we do not worship any Prophet, they still don't get it. You are in the same absurd category of ignorance and polytheism. You continue to reduce Islam to debating mere creations, while I continue to say over and over and over that the reason why you're an infidel and believe in a repulsive religion of idol worship is because:
1- You insult Allah Almighty by directly and openly saying that your prayers and supplications to Him are meaningless and pointless, which is why you pray to Him through supplicating and praying THROUGH MERE CREATIONS. This is in direct conflict with ample Noble Verses such as the following:
"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"
I also showed this from ample clips from your top scholars:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
2- You worship mere creations (the people of Bayt) by directly and openly and shamelessly seeking their:
1- Protection.
2- Help.
3- Aid.
4- Mercy.
5- Blessings.
You even bow to their graves, come crawling to their graves, and openly worship their graves.
Here is what Allah Almighty Said about your people and repulsive pagan religion:
6:22 ويوم نحشرهم جميعا ثم نقول للذين اشركوا اين شركاؤكم الذين كنتم تزعمون
6:23 ثم لم تكن فتنتهم الا ان قالوا والله ربنا ما كنا مشركين
6:24 انظر كيف كذبوا على انفسهم وضل عنهم ما كانوا يفترون
[006:022] One day shall We gather them all together: We shall say to those who ascribed partners (to Us): "Where are the partners whom ye (invented and) talked about?"
[006:023] There will then be (left) no subterfuge for them but to say: "By God our Lord, we were not those who joined gods with God."
[006:024] Behold! how they lie against their own souls! But the (lie) which they invented will leave them in the lurch.
And also:
9:31 اتخذوا احبارهم ورهبانهم اربابا من دون الله والمسيح ابن مريم وماامروا الا ليعبدوا الها واحدا لااله الا هو سبحانه عما يشركون
[009:031] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
3- Your bloody rituals, where you cut not only yourselves almost to death, but also your children are beyond repulsive:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
Yet, according to Islam, you do not even own your own body. It belongs to Allah Almighty Alone, and it will testify for you and against you in the Day of Judgement. Yet, you not only cut your bodies, but you also cut your children as the video above shows:
"That day, their tongues, their hands and their feet would testify against them regarding what they used to do. (The Noble Quran, 24:24)"
"When you used to cover up and conceal your evil deeds, (you never considered) that your ears, your eyes and your skin would testify against you. In fact, you thought that (if you hide your deeds) Allah would not find out much of what you do. (The Noble Quran, 41:22)"
What more could be said about your repulsive and sick and demented pagan religion??
Quote
Why don't you just admit it, you hate the Ahlul-Bayt (as). You are the type of person who would have followed Aisha in the war with Ali (as) which cost the lives of 30000 Muslims.
This is where you and your pagan Shias get ridiculous. Like I mentioned before:
1- The polytheist trinitarian pagans do not represent Jesus Christ and his Mother Mary, peace be upon them. Christ and his Mother are innocent from them and their idol worship. Yet, the pagans constantly claim that everyone else HATES CHRIST, and is anti-Christ.
2- Similarly, the people of Bayt are innocent and pucking and disgusted from your pagan and false religion and people, and they are far far away from you. Your repulsive religion is so despicable, that Hell is too cold of a place for you. This is clearly shown in the video above.
And to answer your silly point: No, no Sunni on this earth hates the people of Bayt. In fact, we revere them so much, and love them so much that we defend them from infidels like your pagan people who worship them.
As to the rest of your ridiculous points and examples about people got upset that they slapped themselves or punched themselves, or grieved bad, those are examples of genuine grievances that don't mean anything here. You worship the people of the Bayt as I thoroughly demonstrated above.
And as to intercession, again, there is a difference between asking a pious person to make supplications or prayers for you before Allah Almighty, and you DECLARING THAT PRAYING TO ALLAH ALMIGHTY DIRECTLY IS POINTLESS AND WON'T BE HEARD, and the only way to do get GOD Almighty's Attention is by praying through the people of the Bayt. Your top scholars say this. Again see the ample clips about what they said:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
You and I are talking about totally different things here.
This dialogue has further demonstrated how hopelessly deceived your pagan people are. Keep cutting yourself with knives. The Doom of Hell is your final Abode.
Osama Abdallah
Post by: There is only one God on February 04, 2013, 01:20:49 PM
Quote
Now suppose you open their sections, and read their many articles and find out that most of their articles are low and despicable ones! The overwhelming majority of them are:
1- Pornographic.
2- Alcohol promoting.
3- Drugs promoting.
4- Prostitution seeking and promoting.
5- Contain COUNTLESS f*** words in them.
IN THE HOLY NAME OF ALLAH ALMIGHTY I ASK YOU THIS AMAR: What would this say about Osama Abdallah, the owner of www.answering-christianity.com then? Answer this with all honesty if you are not a liar and a coward!
I would believe that the moderator either forgot about his forum or does not know how to moderate properly. But more importantly, the rules and regs of the forum.
@adnaanshaikh195:
HAHAHAHA! You gave all those verses about dividing Muslims, meaning calling another Muslim by a label!
Quote
I follow the Islam that Umar, Abubakr, Aisha followed.
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) gave to me is the one I follow, not your jewish Shiite sect LOL.
LMAO. This Shia fool is an idiot.
Oh btw, you kinda pwnd yourself there, since Judaism is absolute monotheism with the rejection of prophethood. So calling Shi'as polytheists and Jewish sects, nah, doesn't work that way.
Lastly, @QuransearchCom:
Quote
You insult Allah Almighty by directly and openly saying that your prayers and supplications to Him are meaningless and pointlessNever heard him say it yet, accusation! Btw, saying stuff like "hell is too cold for you" or "Keep cutting yourself with knives. The Doom of Hell is your final Abode" is not only Argument Ad Hominem but using scare tactics on children :O. Allah decides who goes to hell. Not Quransearchcom!
Now I better get out of here before you guys rip your backs open with swords over whose Islam is correct!
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 01:25:42 PM
As'salamu Alaikum,
Before we begin, I'd like all readers to first watch this brief video about the despicable Shias and their pagan rituals to get a real perspective and feel of what we're talking about when we declare them to be true 100% polytheists and pagans:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
Now to the refutation...Sallam
before I start I will like to thank you for not banning me and for replying only on the blog, I am only using Sunni hadiths here and won't curse the main symbols you love like Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Aisha so no resentment is felt and only logic is applied, though I do hate their deeds, very much.
Wa Alaikum As'salam,
I know you're too polluted with your false religion of worshing creations. I get the same thing from the ignorant ones from the Christians about us supposedly worshing Prophet Muhammad. Even after explaining to them 100 times that we do not worship any Prophet, they still don't get it. You are in the same absurd category of ignorance and polytheism. You continue to reduce Islam to debating mere creations, while I continue to say over and over and over that the reason why you're an infidel and believe in a repulsive religion of idol worship is because:
1- You insult Allah Almighty by directly and openly saying that your prayers and supplications to Him are meaningless and pointless, which is why you pray to Him through supplicating and praying THROUGH MERE CREATIONS. This is in direct conflict with ample Noble Verses such as the following:
"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"
I also showed this from ample clips from your top scholars:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
2- You worship mere creations (the people of Bayt) by directly and openly and shamelessly seeking their:
1- Protection.
2- Help.
3- Aid.
4- Mercy.
5- Blessings.
You even bow to their graves, come crawling to their graves, and openly worship their graves.
Here is what Allah Almighty Said about your people and repulsive pagan religion:
6:22 ويوم نحشرهم جميعا ثم نقول للذين اشركوا اين شركاؤكم الذين كنتم تزعمون
6:23 ثم لم تكن فتنتهم الا ان قالوا والله ربنا ما كنا مشركين
6:24 انظر كيف كذبوا على انفسهم وضل عنهم ما كانوا يفترون
[006:022] One day shall We gather them all together: We shall say to those who ascribed partners (to Us): "Where are the partners whom ye (invented and) talked about?"
[006:023] There will then be (left) no subterfuge for them but to say: "By God our Lord, we were not those who joined gods with God."
[006:024] Behold! how they lie against their own souls! But the (lie) which they invented will leave them in the lurch.
And also:
9:31 اتخذوا احبارهم ورهبانهم اربابا من دون الله والمسيح ابن مريم وماامروا الا ليعبدوا الها واحدا لااله الا هو سبحانه عما يشركون
[009:031] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
3- Your bloody rituals, where you cut not only yourselves almost to death, but also your children are beyond repulsive:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
Yet, according to Islam, you do not even own your own body. It belongs to Allah Almighty Alone, and it will testify for you and against you in the Day of Judgement. Yet, you not only cut your bodies, but you also cut your children as the video above shows:
"That day, their tongues, their hands and their feet would testify against them regarding what they used to do. (The Noble Quran, 24:24)"
"When you used to cover up and conceal your evil deeds, (you never considered) that your ears, your eyes and your skin would testify against you. In fact, you thought that (if you hide your deeds) Allah would not find out much of what you do. (The Noble Quran, 41:22)"
What more could be said about your repulsive and sick and demented pagan religion??QuoteWhy don't you just admit it, you hate the Ahlul-Bayt (as). You are the type of person who would have followed Aisha in the war with Ali (as) which cost the lives of 30000 Muslims.
This is where you and your pagan Shias get ridiculous. Like I mentioned before:
1- The polytheist trinitarian pagans do not represent Jesus Christ and his Mother Mary, peace be upon them. Christ and his Mother are innocent from them and their idol worship. Yet, the pagans constantly claim that everyone else HATES CHRIST, and is anti-Christ.
2- Similarly, the people of Bayt are innocent and pucking and disgusted from your pagan and false religion and people, and they are far far away from you. Your repulsive religion is so despicable, that Hell is too cold of a place for you. This is clearly shown in the video above.
And to answer your silly point: No, no Sunni on this earth hates the people of Bayt. In fact, we revere them so much, and love them so much that we defend them from infidels like your pagan people who worship them.
As to the rest of your ridiculous points and examples about people got upset that they slapped themselves or punched themselves, or grieved bad, those are examples of genuine grievances that don't mean anything here. You worship the people of the Bayt as I thoroughly demonstrated above.
And as to intercession, again, there is a difference between asking a pious person to make supplications or prayers for you before Allah Almighty, and you DECLARING THAT PRAYING TO ALLAH ALMIGHTY DIRECTLY IS POINTLESS AND WON'T BE HEARD, and the only way to do get GOD Almighty's Attention is by praying through the people of the Bayt. Your top scholars say this. Again see the ample clips about what they said:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
You and I are talking about totally different things here.
This dialogue has further demonstrated how hopelessly deceived your pagan people are. Keep cutting yourself with knives. The Doom of Hell is your final Abode.
Osama Abdallah
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
Can you please allow the reader to read my and Amar's responses?
Thank you,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: amar on February 04, 2013, 01:48:41 PM
Sallam
It was reported from ‘Awf ibn Maalik who said: the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The Jews were divided into seventy-one sects, one of which is in Paradise and seventy are in the Fire. The Christians were divided into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which are in the Fire and one is in Paradise. By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, my Ummah will be divided into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two will be in the Fire.†It was said, O Messenger of Allah, who are they? He said, “Al-Jamaa’ah.â€
Sunan Ibn Maajah, Number 3982
Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam.
Quran 3:19
If not a single Jew or Christian is on the right path (Islam) then how are the majority of Muslims on the right path considering that Islam was split into even more sects as compared to Jews and Christians. Therefore one should not believe they are following the true path just because they were raised up following the religion of the majority. Every Muslim must search truth and not depend on the faith they were raised up with as this is what the enemies of Allah (SWT) did:
Indeed they found their fathers astray. So they hastened [to follow] in their footsteps.
Quran 37:69-70
You quote:
“And hold fast, altogether, by the rope Which Allah (stretches out for you), and be not divided among yourselves.†[Al-Qur’an 3:103]
The rope Which Allah (stretches out for you) is the Ahlul-Bayt (as) as well as the Quran proved by this hadith:
The messenger of Allah (saww) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to both of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 662-663
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 328
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 109
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 110
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 148
Al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Volume 3, Page 553
Sunan, by Daarami, Volume 2, Page 432
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 3, Page 14
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 3, Page 17
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 3, Page 26
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 3, Page 59
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 366
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 370-372
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 5, Page 182
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 5, Page 189
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 5, Page 350
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 5, Page 366
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 5, Page 419
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 2, Page 585, Number 990
Al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, Page 21
Al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, Page 30
Al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami, Chapter 11, Section 1, Page 230
Al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, Volume 3, Page 62-63
Al-Kabir, by al-Tabarani, Volume 3, Page 137
Kanz al-Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Chapter al-Iti'sam bi Habl Allah, Volume 1, Page 44
Tafsir Ibn Kathir (complete version), Volume 4, Page 113
Al-Tabaqat al-Kubra, by Ibn Sa'd, Volume 2, Page 194
Al-Jami' al-Saghir, by al-Suyuti, Volume 1, Page 353
Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, Volume 9, Page 163
Al-Fateh al-Kabir, by al-Binhani, Volume 1, Page 451
Usdul Ghabah fi Ma'rifat al-Sahaba, by Ibn al-Athir, Volume 2, Page 12
You also quote:
“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger†[Al-Qur’an 4:59]
The messenger of Allah said to Ali: “You are in the same position with relation to me as Aaron-(Harun) was in relation to Moses but with (this explicit difference) that there is no prophet after me, and that you are the caliph of every believer after me.â€
Al-Sunnah, by Ibn Abi A’asim Al-Shaibani, Page 560, Number 1188
The prophet said: "Whoever I am his master, Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him?"
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 2, Page 298
Sahih al-Tirmidhi, Volume 5, Page 63
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 12
Sunan Ibn Majah, Volume 1, Page 43
The prophet (saww) had appointed his cousin, Ali, as the caliph over the Muslims after him and had ordered his companions and his wives to congratulate him for this leadership over the believers in Ghadir Khum. Abu Bakr was among the first people to say: "Congratulations, Congratulations to you, O son of Abu Talib. Today you became the master of every believing man and woman".
Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, Volume 4, Page 281
Tafsir al-Kabir, by Fakhr al-Razi, Volume 12, Page 49-50
Mishkat al-Masabih, by al-Khateeb al-Tabrizi, Page 557
Habib al-Siyar, by Mir Khand, Volume 1, Part 3, Page 144
Kitabul Wilayah, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari
Al-Musannaf, by Ibn Abi Shaybah
Al-Musnad, by Abu Ya'ala
Hadith al-Wilayah, by Ahmad Ibn 'Uqdah
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 29 from Abu Huraira
Tarikh, by Khateeb al-Baghdadi, Volume 8, Page 596 from Abu Huraira
You quote:
“As for those who divide Their religion and break up Into sects, you have no part in them in the least: Their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.†[Al-Qur’an 6:159]
Shia is the original Islam, Imam Hussein (as) before he sacrificed himself said he wanted to bring back the religion his grandfather preached. It was the Sunnis who deviated following the innovations of Umar and co. I will prove this soon from your sources but I first want brother Osama's reply before I move on.
Imam Ja'far Al-Sadiq (as) was the teacher of Nuʿmān ibn Thābit (Abu Hanifa), founder of Hanafi school of thought and taught Malik ibn Anas, founder of the Maliki school of thought who in turn taught Al-Shafi who taught Ahmad ibn Hanbal so basically all Sunni school of fiqhs were founded by Imam Ja'far Al-Sadiq (as), the sixth Shia Imam, so rather than learning from his students, Shias learn from him, the teacher. Sahih Bukhari has not a single narration from Ja'far Al-Sadiq (as) while it narrates from Abu Hanifa while Shia books narrate a majority from the Ahlul-Bayt (as). It's the Shais who follow the Sunnah of the prophte (saww).
Shias don't worship graves, we pray towards the kibla, we say three times in our third and fourth rukats; Subhanallah Wal-Hamdulillah Wa La Ilaha Illa Allah Wa Allahu Akbar. We also say in the second and last rakats after sujood; Ash-hadu Alla Ilaha Illa Allah Wahdaho La Shareeka Laho Wa Ash-Hadu Anna Muhammadan ‘Abdoho wa Rasooloh, we also asy the adhan and iqama so how can we be associating?
You said: "I follow the Islam that Umar, Abubakr, Aisha followed."
Then you don't follow Islam, you follow their innovations, again I will show you them from your books just waiting on brother Osama to reply. I will also expose their behaviours that you would have to disassociate yourself from them if you fear Allah (SWT). You do know Umar would go every Saturday to learn from the Jews.
Please don't reply untill you have an answer for every hadith I have posted from your books and make dua asking Allah (SWT) to guide you and not let you be of those who hastened to follow in the footsteps of there forefathers while they were astray.
I will reply brother Osama later after boxing training as I just saw now,
sorry
4-5 hours max
Post by: Tanveer on February 04, 2013, 02:23:00 PM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 02:34:57 PM
Brother Osama, why did you create this section? It's pointless, no one's going to change their views. Can we please just stop this bull?
No bull about it brother. Truth seeking is never bull. I am not fighting with anyone here, and I am allowing Amar to speak his mind freely and to quote freely as he wishes. I really honestly want to see what the Shias have from evidence. I want their best arguments to be put forth. Plain and simple akhi. No need to be offended about it. I promise you and everyone that I'll tone down the responses. And yes akhi, people do change.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: Tanveer on February 04, 2013, 02:38:39 PM
Thank you brother Osama. I think we should use Jesus.breadoflife as a model.Brother Osama, why did you create this section? It's pointless, no one's going to change their views. Can we please just stop this bull?
No bull about it brother. Truth seeking is never bull. I am not fighting with anyone here, and I am allowing Amar to speak his mind freely and to quote freely as he wishes. I really honestly want to see what the Shias have from evidence. I want their best arguments to be put forth. Plain and simple akhi. No need to be offended about it. I promise you and everyone that I'll tone down the responses. And yes akhi, people do change.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 02:42:55 PM
Quote
Shia is the original Islam, Imam Hussein (as) before he sacrificed himself said he wanted to bring back the religion his grandfather preached. It was the Sunnis who deviated following the innovations of Umar and co. I will prove this soon from your sources but I first want brother Osama's reply before I move on.
Imam Hussein, peace be upon him, did not sacrifice himself to restore the original Islam. Islam was already there and original:
[005:003] Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
What Imam Hussein went out to fight was the corruption that was caused by Muawiyah and his and his son, Yazid. I don't dispute that, and I said countless times before that I am with Ali and Hussein against Muawiyah and Yazid anyday any time.
Hussein was strongly advised by the people of Medina to not go to Iraq. They told him that it was going to be fruitless and dangerous for him, because the people of Iraq have already betrayed his father and his older brother, Hasan. Hussein wasn't gonna be any different, and he wasn't really that much anyway as far as popularity and status and power among the people of Iraq. You can say he was probably almost irrelevant to them. And sure enough, he didn't take the advise and set out to Iraq. He was cut off by and killed. And no one from Iraq (his supposed army) gave a hoot about him. And to add further annhialation to injury, his head was dragged from karbala all the way to Damascus by a horse, while his head was on the ground. And no one from his supposed army lifted a finger to even care. And now you bark like rabid dogs for him, and injure yourselves and your own children almost to death for him. It's like rushing to the soccer match when the game is up and everyone left home. You're too late. So give it up and start worshiping Allah Almighty for once. They're all dead. And they're all with the Judge of Judges now. Let Him, the Almighty, sort it all out as He should and would. You're all idol worshipers.
It's a horrible tragedy!! No Sunni on this earth denies it! But we don't worship Hussein and turn him into a god because of it. It's against Islam, and I've already thoroughly demonstrated this in my previous reply. And we don't do the following to ourselves as your pagan people do (as self-inflicting punishment):
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
You are no more than rabid idol worshipers. Plain and simple. You are polytheists, and this is what the Glorious Quran describes you, and I've given the ample Noble Vereses above that thoroughly proved it.
Give it up. It's all over. You should worry about your own salvations now, because that seems to be too compromised by your rabid pagan practices.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: amar on February 04, 2013, 04:34:12 PM
I do thank you for the freedom of speech, I really do. I do ask you however to refute the hadiths instead of just attacking, a good tactic, but when you ignore those hadiths one has to assume you have no answer. I will bring in the parts about Abu Bakr first, I use your hadiths and Quran to expose him. However, I just got back from training and need a meal to ease a headache but after I will begin the refutation. I do suggest you go through my comments and read your hadiths again and just think about it or if you wan't to ignore it just watch those videos I posted that shame your sect and your scholars.
Just to add, I'm honestly suprised you chose to ridicule the act of tatbir after reading my previous comment, you are basically ridiculing the prophet (saww).
back soon
sallam
Post by: Tanveer on February 04, 2013, 04:57:28 PM
You do realise the hadith on leaving behind the ahlul bayt is considered weak and many of its narrators were openly Shia? As is the one on Ali PBUH being our master. I picked these two at random so I assumed the rest will also be weak. Please use authentic hadith and preferably Saheeh Bukhari and Muslim. These are considered the most authentic collections.
Thanks.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 08:04:59 PM
Quote
Just to add, I'm honestly suprised you chose to ridicule the act of tatbir after reading my previous comment, you are basically ridiculing the prophet (saww).
As'salamu Alaikum everyone,
You guys do realize that tatbir (tat-beer) is the act of cutting and beating yourself with sharp objects, right? Notice how this polytheist here didn't even object to the guy who almost killed himself by almost splitting his entire back deeply and wide open with the sharp sword that he swung at himself:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
Not only that, but I am now the one who is ridiculing the Prophet of Islam too. I just want everyone to take notice of this. These polytheists are way too deviants and heretics. Let's see what is that Hadith again Amar? Oh, the person who hit his face with both of his hands because he was grieving? This now justifies all of the evil garbage that you and your pagans do? Quite ludicrous to say the least.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 04, 2013, 08:42:53 PM
I have removed your last 10-page post. You're really begening to get on my last nerve here, because you continue to drown the debate with stupid links that only mock some Sunni imams in some Mosques for exposing some of your toy guns that you give to your children with modified voices, which say "Shoot Aisha!" (ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fp4_7nw1AEs), and give silly narrations about off-topic discussions about the some of the Prophet's Companions.
For the 10th and the last time for you (next time I will ban you), please address the points that I mentioned to you above, which thoroughly demonstrated that your cult is a cult of polytheists. I don't care about your opinion about our Mother Aisha, Abu Bakr, Umar and so on. You can keep your opinions to yourself, because they are irrelevant to this discussion.
I am sick and tired of you intentionally posting excessively large posts that do not answer the main point here. Again, reply directly to my points, or I will ban you. Reply point for point, or you're out. Ok? Spammers are not welcomed here. I let you post all of the excessive links to give you the room and the benefit of the doubt. But you seem to be a ludicrous clown who doesn't want to address the main point directly.
So for the last time, either address me DIRECTLY, or I am sorry, I won't let you drown this discussion. If my points are a threat to your cult, then maybe it's time to reconsider. But don't intentionally drown my posts with 10-page garbage that is completely off topic.
And no, I am not scared of your stupid narrations. I just don't care for them. They're irrelevant to me, because I have TONS OF PROOFS that demonstrated that your cult is all polythiest. This my friend by itself, if true, will DOOM YOU TO HELL FOR ENTERNITY. So I don't think your stupid opinion about a mere creation such as Aisha and others really matters beyond this. First prove that you're not a polytheist, and then we can talk about your silly links about making fun of Imams in Mosques, and critiquing some of the Companions.
I hope this is clear.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Post by: amar on February 04, 2013, 10:17:54 PM
Wallahi your points aren't a threat, I have given you hadiths, I answered all your points at the beggining, I will paste my reply, lukcy for me I save my comments on different document just incase! I proved Abu Bakr was kafir and so was Umar, this is for the rest to know. Its funny that you only mentioned the guns sounds, why don't you refer to your top scholars in your Shia kafir video shaming themselves. Here's my replies to your misconceptions:
Sallam Tanveer,
I am not sure what you mean by "leaving behind the ahlul bayt". The hadiths I use are from Sahih Muslim and Bukhari but I complete the image with the rest of their books, however I could prove their sect false even by using Sahih Muslim and Bukhari, I could show them the insults in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim on the prophets (as) and Allah (SWT). The fact that they take Muslim and Bukhari as 'sahih' like the Quran is ridiculous. Bukhari's grandfather was even a zoastrian at the time of the prophet (saww) so you can see where they get their sources from while we get our sources from the pure Ahlul-Bayt (as).
Now my response to brother Osama, first sallam.
1- why don't you watch the video of Muslims getting trampled in hajj? Its a religious act, a very small minority die from this religous just as a very small minority die during umrah.
3- You comment about Christians is in favour of my case, they say we worship Muhammad (saww). "Even after explaining to them 100 times that we do not worship any Prophet, they still don't get it." I can say the same to you, it doesn't matter how many times I prove to you using the Quran and your hadiths, you "still don't get it."
You quote:
"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"
Did I say Allah (SWT) won't listen to you unless you ask him in the name of Muhammad (saww) and the Ahlul-Bayt (as). Let me re-paste what I said:
They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners." He said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Quran 12:97-98
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Quran 4:64
Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them. Don’t Muslims ask pious Muslims to do this? Don’t Muslims ask those who fast to make dua for them? This is the same and the reason why Muslims do this is because they know the dua of those who fast or are more pious are more likely to be accepted. Shias do the same but ask the most pious of Muslims, the prophets (as) and the Imams (as). The misconception is that Shias make dua to the Imams (as) instead of Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, this is not the case but it’s understandable as people often judge by what they see while ignorant. Like seeing Shias praying on clay tablets, seems like they’re praying to it but rather they are praying on it.
4- I repeat again, worship Allah (SWT) with no partners!!! I have our rituals before so I ask you, do you hate the prophet (saww) as he used to do cupping from his head and back. I will just re-paste a hadith from one of my previous comment, I recommend anyone following this thread to refer back to the original comment in page 4, the last comment, as it contains more hadiths about this:
When the news reached Owais al-Qarni (ra) in Yemen that two teeth of the prophet (saww) were broken in the battle of Uhud, he extracted all his teeth. When the prophet (saww) got the news in Medina that Owais had struck down all his teeth, he exclaimed, "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend".
Seerate Halbia, Volume 2, Page 295
Know that you have insulted the prophet (saww) by your words, the prophet (saww) is the best of creation, you are not.
5- Yes I agree with you when you say Christians don't represent Iysa (as), the son of Mariam (as) just as Abu Bakr, Umar and Saddam don't represent Muhammad (saww).
6- Yes I know Hell is too cold a place for me as I am worse than Pharaoh, Umar and Aisha. I am Shia, not Alawi, even Alawis don't worship Ali (as), only some of them do just as some Wahhabis believe Allah (SWT) has a body as proved by Bukhari and Muslim as their books are 'sahih'.
7- If you love the Ahlul-Bayt (as) so much then why do you condemn them for turning on tyrants? I assume you don't believe the wives of the prophet (saww) are part of the Ahlul-Bayt (as), if you do please let me know.
8- "DECLARING THAT PRAYING TO ALLAH ALMIGHTY DIRECTLY IS POINTLESS AND WON'T BE HEARD" You lie about what I say and Allah (SWT) is witness, I said "Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them." Fear Allah (SWT) and repent, I already forgive you.
9- We will "Keep cutting yourself with knives" as the prophet (saww) did.
10- If I was worshipping the Ahlul-bayt (as), then yes Hell will be my abode but alhamdulillah I pray 5 times a day to Allah (SWT) and sebeh glorlyfying Him.
11- "Imam Hussein, peace be upon him, did not sacrifice himself to restore the original Islam." By Allah (SWT) he did. Allah (SWT) did perfect our religion but then Umar change it, I will provide a snippit of Umar's innovation as first I wan't to get Abu Bakr out the way.
12- "And no one from his supposed army lifted a finger to even care." Have you not heard about his 72 companions?
13- "What Imam Hussein went out to fight was the corruption that was caused by Muawiyah and his and his son, Yazid. I don't dispute that, and I said countless times before that I am with Ali and Hussein against Muawiyah and Yazid anyday any time."
"Ali, as a ruler, failed dismally in his rule and turned the Muslims on each others in one civil war after another during his rule. Ali wasn't fit to be a ruler in my oppinion, and till this day we suffer because of his politcal rule."
"Muawiyah is still a Muslim. No one can call him a kaafir."
"I just want you to see these indisputable facts. While I am with Ali with all my heart, but quite honestly, I JUST WISH HE NEVER RULED!"
14- Again I will say, Shias don't worship Ali (as) or the rest of the Ahlul-Bayt (as). Go on wiki and search twelvers.
Post by: zulfiqarchucknorris on February 05, 2013, 02:04:12 AM
Peace
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 06:34:20 AM
Firstly, no they are not from bukhari and muslim. Secondly, please write down Sahih Bukhari and muslim then. I didnt see the words anywhere in your last post (i was skimming maybe i missed them) and please dont put words in our mouths. NONE of us consider the hadith books as authentic as the Quran. Neither do we consider it divine either. Saheeh simply means most authentic. And seeing as we're talking about hadith collections whats the problem? Please give us an example of a muslim saying hadiths are the book of god or reciting hadith in prayer? And so what is Bukhari's grandfather was a zoroastrian? He became a muslim. End of. Using your outrageous reasoning we could say ALL the early muslims got their stuff, including the ahlul bayt, from pagans. See how outlandish that is? TIOOG's parents and grandparents were probabaly deists like him. Im a bengali. My ancestors were once hindus. Does that mean you're gonna throw away everything i say because of that? Does that mean we toss away everything TIOOG says as deist rubbish? As for the hadith on Owais Qarni PBUH. Its weak...again. Its not in Bukhari or muslim. This is what it says in Seerat Halbia about it.
“And it has been narrated… that [Uwais al-Qarni] said, ‘By Allah, the Prophet’s molar tooth (peace and blessings be upon him) was not broken except that I broke my own molar tooth,’… this is how I have seen this quote written in some books, and Allah knows best as to its condition [whether it is authentic or not].†[al-Halabi, Insan al-‘Uyoon aka. Al-Seerah al-Halabiyya]
Even the person you have cited doesnt know its authenticity and seeing as other scholars have said its weak then i am inclined to believe them. Why didnt Ali PBUH cause himself self harm? Why didnt any of the Sahabah cause themselves any self harm? Did you know Owais PBUH even ridiculed Ali PBUH and Umar PBUH for not hurting themselves? How on earth can you use a person who insults Ali PBUH as justification for what you do?
Post by: The Canadian Atheist on February 05, 2013, 06:44:49 AM
Islam is the religion of peace. I accept! Now please stop BULLYING people (like Amar) about who is stronger by slashing your backs with swords!!!
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 06:47:52 AM
OK OK I GET IT!Shut. The. [censored]. Up. No one bullying one another for your entertainment. Go troll somewhere else.
Islam is the religion of peace. I accept! Now please stop BULLYING people (like Amar) about who is stronger by slashing your backs with swords!!!
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 05, 2013, 07:49:09 AM
Quote
Shut. The. bad. Up.
Hahahaha! Thank GOD my filter worked :). Bad bad bad Tanveer! :). hehehehhehe
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 08:16:19 AM
LOL! Never realised that :D You got me. *Slaps hand*QuoteShut. The. bad. Up.
Hahahaha! Thank GOD my filter worked :). Bad bad bad Tanveer! :). hehehehhehe
Post by: amar on February 05, 2013, 09:14:02 AM
@osama
Can you reply to my comments, I do ask you again to wiki and find out about twelver Shia, the main Shia sect, you will see the difference between us and you is the view of companionship, wives of the prophet (saww) and the religious practices, NOT tawheed, many of your scholars say that too, that's why they only debate on the issue of companions. I advise you to see a Shia prayer on youtube.
@zulfiqarchucknorris,
I put in my post a section that exposes Abu Bakr from your hadiths and Quran as kafir, yes kafir, but brother osama removed it as he waned to get to the point of tawheed first. I also put a snippit about Umar where I proved from Sahih Bukhari only that Umar was kafir, that's for Tanveer. As for your madhabs, all are derived from Imam Jafar al-sadiq (as). Maliki was a musician, read your books and Abu Hanifa had a love for Zina, this video exposes him from your books:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_bkyEz1rE
@Tanveer
hello
Most of the Hadiths I put are marked Sahih by your Imams! Don't think you know better than your Imams. I'm afraid to say but you do, that's what Sahih means, read its introduction, Bukhari and Muslim collected hadiths that were 'Sahih' in their books therefore those books are considered infallible like the Quran. That's why the pressure is on you as Shias don't name their books Sahih as they know only the Quran is Sahih. By the way, I didn't compare the words of Allah (SWT) with the words of 'Sahih' Bukhari and Muslim, Adhubillah. I said Allah (SWT) said the Quran is infallible, cannot be altered as its protected by the Almighty. You also have a book called 'Sahih' meaning every narration inside is true therefore you must accept them as true or you ain't Sunni! This is one of many problems with your sect including thinking that Allah (SWT) permitted insest until the time of Musa (as), astafurlillah.
My point is if the grandfather of Bukhari was a Zoastrian at the time of the prophet (saww) don't you think there were better people to narrate hadiths like I don't know the Ahlul-Bayt (as) maybe? There grandfather was the prophet (saww) himself! Watch this video, it shows how Bukhari was influenced:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT415SOh3cI&hl=en-GB&gl=GB
Also as a Sunni, your not allowed to say PBUH except for prophets (as), its a silly rule but you have to follow it as if you don't, you ain't Sunni, I know it illogical but that's your sect. You take 'as' and 'ra' as stamps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL9KlyNV4YU&feature=plcp
Owais Qarni (ra) was not an enemy of Ali (as), he's respected by both Shias and Sunnis and afterall he lived in Yemen, so how could he be an enemy to Ali (as). Also please read my entire comment previously, at the end of page four it uses more example including the prophet (saww) himself.
Sallam
Post by: Koray on February 05, 2013, 09:25:42 AM
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 05, 2013, 09:58:11 AM
Quote
3- You comment about Christians is in favour of my case, they say we worship Muhammad (saww). "Even after explaining to them 100 times that we do not worship any Prophet, they still don't get it." I can say the same to you, it doesn't matter how many times I prove to you using the Quran and your hadiths, you "still don't get it."
You quote:
"When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way. (The Noble Quran, 2:186)"
Did I say Allah (SWT) won't listen to you unless you ask him in the name of Muhammad (saww) and the Ahlul-Bayt (as). Let me re-paste what I said:
They said, "O our father, ask for us forgiveness of our sins; indeed, we have been sinners." He said, "I will ask forgiveness for you from my Lord. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful."
Quran 12:97-98
And We did not send any messenger except to be obeyed by permission of Allah. And if, when they wronged themselves, they had come to you, [O Muhammad], and asked forgiveness of Allah and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah Accepting of repentance and Merciful.
Quran 4:64
Duas are more likely to be accepted by Allah (SWT) from prophets (as) and Imams (as). Muslims can ask directly and they can ask through others more pious than them. Don’t Muslims ask pious Muslims to do this? Don’t Muslims ask those who fast to make dua for them? This is the same and the reason why Muslims do this is because they know the dua of those who fast or are more pious are more likely to be accepted. Shias do the same but ask the most pious of Muslims, the prophets (as) and the Imams (as). The misconception is that Shias make dua to the Imams (as) instead of Allah (SWT), Adhubillah, this is not the case but it’s understandable as people often judge by what they see while ignorant. Like seeing Shias praying on clay tablets, seems like they’re praying to it but rather they are praying on it.
Islam is 100% innocent from your polytheistic and idol-worshiping cult. You turned mere creations of GOD Almighty into objects of worship. I have thoroughly demonstrated this from the Glorious Quran in great details at these links:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2867.html#msg2867
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac11.htm#links
One point I'd like to add regarding your cult is that the dead people do not hear us, nor can they help us. The Believers are alive with Allah Almighty in Heaven. But they don't hear us, nor do they have anything do with us here on earth after they die:
[007:029] Say: "My Lord hath commanded justice; and that ye set your whole selves (to Him) at every time and place of prayer, and call upon Him, making your devotion sincere as in His sight: such as He created you in the beginning, so shall ye return."
[007:194] Verily those whom ye call upon besides God are servants like unto you: Call upon them, and let them listen to your prayer, if ye are (indeed) truthful!
[007:195] Have they feet to walk with? Or hands to lay hold with? Or eyes to see with? Or ears to hear with? Say: "Call your 'god-partners', scheme (your worst) against me, and give me no respite!
[007:196] "For my Protector is God, Who revealed the Book (from time to time), and He will choose and befriend the righteous.
[007:197] "But those ye call upon besides Him, are unable to help you, and indeed to help themselves."
[007:198] If thou callest them to guidance, they hear not. Thou wilt see them looking at thee, but they see not.
[030:052] Of course, you cannot make the dead hear you. Nor can you make the deaf hear your call, (particularly) when they turn their backs to avoid you.
[036:012] Of course, it is We Who grants life back to the dead. We are recording all the deeds they send ahead, as well as all the traces they leave behind! We have preserved an account of all things in a clear and well-protected register!
[006:036] Those who listen (in truth), be sure, will accept: as to the dead, God will raise them up; then will they be turned unto Him.
[003:169] Do not ever think that, those slain in the path of Allah are dead. In fact, they are living! (Ranked high) with their Lord, they receive their sustenance.
[006:036] In fact, only those who care to listen attentively can respond (to the call). As for the dead, Allah will bring them to life, and then they would be presented before Him (for reckoning).
There is a difference between you asking a pious person here on earth to make Dua (Supplication) to GOD Almighty to help you, and you praying to the dead (Ahlul Bayt and Prophets) for:
1- Protection.
2- Aid.
3- Mercy.
4- Forgiveness.
They are dead here on earth, and they are alive with GOD Almighty in Heaven. So praying to Allah Almighty through any creation is completely wrong, and is outside Islam. And worse, your cult GLORIFIES the certain creations. I don't want to talk too much about it here, because we have thoroughly demonstrated it from the Glorious Quran at the links that I gave above.
Its starting to get really confusing , i'm following this topic and have read all post i think(ok maybe a few long ones) , i'm a Sunni and i was curious as to why Shia's called kafirs , i asked my mother about it and she said they were not kafirs and its very dangerous to call them kafirs because Allah knows best , if they are telling that they are Muslims , than the rest is between them and Allah , we must respect them because they are our brothers in Islam.
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,
It's not confusing if you isolate their idol worshing cult practices from everything else. What this shia was doing here is drown the text and mix everything together. Hence, creating the impression that calling him and his cult polytheists is against Islam. This is why I am forcing this topic to be only limited to Tawheed (Oneness of Allah Almighty), and their cult's pagan and idol worshing practices. The conflicts that happened between some of the Companions is irrelevant to all of this.
To help you understand this much better, visit the following three videos, and insha'Allah, the picture will become clear to you:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
Watch what their top scholars say (from Qum and Najaf) about how to make supplication and prayers to Allah Almighty. It's invalid if Ali or any member from the people of the Bayt is not in it. In other words, you're not allowed to pray to Allah Almighty directly and to Him Alone. Imagine! Also, when you teach your baby child how to summon his/her strength and walk, you must teach them to call upon Ali for help and stregth. Also, pay attention to the little girl who doesn't even know how to thank Allah Almighty!
Furthermore, watch this video to see how they cut themselves and their children for also mere creations as well:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
I ask you and ask everyone here by the Holy Name of Allah Almighty, if this is not idol worship, then what is it??
In the Name of Allah, what is it??
I demand an answer from every single one of you here, because this is THE bottom line to all of this discussion.
Amar, I will refute, again, your nonsense in details later on. Any post you make on any creation of Allah Almighty will be deleted. I want you to be locked in this topic and this topic only to show everyone how ridiculous and polytheistic your cult is.
Furthermore, even if everything you say about the creations is true, then this doesn't have any theological implications today. The Holy Quran is still the Holy Quran, and the Sunna still remains the Sunna.
Osama Abdallah
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 10:04:05 AM
You are starting to annoy me now. I am a sunni. Dont think you know better than someone who is an actual sunni. My imams say the hadiths are weak so they are weak. You also said you will use sunni sources. Why do you keep citing shia videos? No Sunni muslim considers the hadith books infallible. I dont give a crap how many youtube videos you give(you honestly think i care what shia videos say about sunnis?). A person who says the hadith are infallible are always condemned by us. No sunni ever says you must accept all the narrations in Bukhari or muslim are correct. We dont think theyre infallible. AS and RA mean may god be pleased with him. No scholar i have ever encountered says if i say PBUH to someone other than a Prophet im not a muslim anymore. I have a book called Sahih. Meaning most authentic. Dont think you know about my books better than me.
'Sunni Muslims view this as one of the three most trusted collections of hadith along with Sahih Muslim and Muwatta Imam Malik.' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahih_al-Bukhari#Distinctive_Features
Drill this into your stupid brain. I began in a courteous manner with you but you are simply taking it as an advantage to sprout yout crap.
Post by: There is only one God on February 05, 2013, 11:10:39 AM
NO! JUST NO!
I'm starting to see some really jacked up crap here..
I guess I am to blame for this war that fueled 1,000 views.
"You have separated Islam with Shi'ism. I find that highly offensive."
I guess that one comment which referred to the offense in dividing the Muslims really screwed everything neutral about this forum.
" I am a sunni. Dont think you know better than someone who is an actual sunni. My imams say the hadiths are weak so they are weak. You also said you will use sunni sources."
Qur'an 2:206 precisely says arrogance is a sin. Don't think you know more than someone else just because you are Sunni. I remember adnaanshaikh saying something similar, that "converts don't know much about Islam as I do". If your imams say the hadith are weak doesn't always mean it is weak. Imams aren't infallible
"Drill this into your stupid brain. I began in a courteous manner with you but you are simply taking it as an advantage to sprout yout crap."
...
@Koray: Your mom was right, don't let these people tell you that it is OK to call another professed Muslim a kaafir or tell him "The doom of Hell is your final abode". After all, the Qur'an Does say wisdom and beautiful preaching (16:125).
"No sunni ever says you must accept all the narrations in Bukhari or muslim are correct. "
Not true. I've heard several sunnis who accept these books as 100% truth. They call it Authentic hadith. The dictionary definition of authentic is "Of undisputed origin".
And QuranSearchCom, you're just doing the same thing over and over posting that pic of that guy who cut his back and basing views of ALL Shi'as off one person.
"I ask you and ask everyone here by the Holy Name of Allah Almighty, if this is not idol worship, then what is it??"
I think you were referring to calling others besides Allah. It's polytheism or shirk, NOT idol worship. But that's not what Shiism is. Shiism is accepting Ali (RA) as a successor, not worshiping him.
The politics in Arabian Islam is astounding.
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 11:23:48 AM
And also TIOOG I want to hold you accountable for bringing Edwin Star's War into my head. Now it's gonna stay there for probably the whole day...
Post by: amar on February 05, 2013, 11:29:29 AM
@Koray
The problem is brother osama refuses to give up the idea Shias worship Allah (SWT) alone and likes to instead associate other sects with twelver Shias, twelver Shias ridicule other sects that worship the Imams (as), they have the same view brother Osama has on them about tawheed. twelver Shias which makes up the majority of Shias worship Allah (SWT) alone with no partners. I have pasted part of my document in the forum that shows from Quran and Muhammad (saww) intercession is allowed, asking in the name of Imams (as) and the prophet (saww).
After the issue of tawheed is confirmed, I will repaste the Quran and hadith quotes from sunni books that exposes Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Aisha. The belief and there innovations, Quran 5:6 as an example concerning wudu, an innovation by Uthman.
@Osama
My comment proves your lies about Shia, you just want to mix other sects beliefs with Shia beliefs. Shias say ya Ali (as) as the prophet (saww) said ya Ali (as) whenever he wanted something done, its sunna. We don't say ya Ali (as) when we make duas, we ask Allah (SWT) alone. If Shias were idol worshippers all Sunni shiekhs would focus on that issue as then Shias can't say nothing as they go directly against the Quran like sunnis (5:6 is an example).
"Furthermore, even if everything you say about the creations is true, then this doesn't have any theological implications today. The Holy Quran is still the Holy Quran, and the Sunna still remains the Sunna."
You don't follow the sunna of the prophet (saww), you follow Umar's innovations, you follow the sunna of Umar.
@Tanveer
1- Didn't you say use Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, well I proved Umar was kafir by using Sahih Bukhari. If you don't accept its Sahih then call it Bukhari and Muslim, again the pressure is on your sect, if you wan't to call them Sahih you have to accept whats inside.
2- The Shia videos are a shia talking about Bukhari and Muslim, giving facts about them, and the other video is a shia commentating while one of your Sunni scholars speaks, the one in brother Osama's video.
3- 'as' mean aley sallam, PBUH. You're not allowed to say that except for prophets (as), Adnan Aroor said this, he's one of your scholars and generally ask any other scholar they will say the same, simple internet check will do! I said not a Sunni, if you ain't Muslim you are kafir, I didn't say you will be kafir, I said you won't be following your school of thought.
4- you do know what 'Sahih' means yes? As long as its called Sahih Bukhari instead of Bukhari, you have to accept Umar is kafir. As Bukhari collected hadiths and called them all authentic and then put it in Sahih Bukhari, same with Muslim, aslong as you agree with them then you have to accept them, a simple thing to say is, Bukhari was wrong and hence be hated by Sunni scholars.
5- I give hadiths, most of what I put is your hadiths, don't call your own hadiths crap.
@laillahilAllah
Ali (as) does not need a dua saying may Allah be pleased with him, he is free from sins as Quran says in 33:33 for the Ahlul-Bayt (as)
Sallam
Post by: There is only one God on February 05, 2013, 11:40:05 AM
Post by: Tanveer on February 05, 2013, 12:03:59 PM
@TanveerAmar
1- Didn't you say use Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari, well I proved Umar was kafir by using Sahih Bukhari. If you don't accept its Sahih then call it Bukhari and Muslim, again the pressure is on your sect, if you wan't to call them Sahih you have to accept whats inside.
2- The Shia videos are a shia talking about Bukhari and Muslim, giving facts about them, and the other video is a shia commentating while one of your Sunni scholars speaks, the one in brother Osama's video.
3- 'as' mean aley sallam, PBUH. You're not allowed to say that except for prophets (as), Adnan Aroor said this, he's one of your scholars and generally ask any other scholar they will say the same, simple internet check will do! I said not a Sunni, if you ain't Muslim you are kafir, I didn't say you will be kafir, I said you won't be following your school of thought.
4- you do know what 'Sahih' means yes? As long as its called Sahih Bukhari instead of Bukhari, you have to accept Umar is kafir. As Bukhari collected hadiths and called them all authentic and then put it in Sahih Bukhari, same with Muslim, aslong as you agree with them then you have to accept them, a simple thing to say is, Bukhari was wrong and hence be hated by Sunni scholars.
5- I give hadiths, most of what I put is your hadiths, don't call your own hadiths crap.
@laillahilAllah
Ali (as) does not need a dua saying may Allah be pleased with him, he is free from sins as Quran says in 33:33 for the Ahlul-Bayt (as)
You continue to aggravate me by saying what i should and shouldnt believe. I can call Bukhari Saheeh and not accept some of its narrations if they are proven weak because Bukhari is considered most authentic. Not authentic fullstop. I can call Salman Rushdie's Satanic Verses Saheeh because he wrote it and its not been tampered with and vehemently disagree with him (which i do). Most of what you put is my hadiths. So what? Many hadiths are fabricated. Just because they are cited in some books which were written by sunnis doesnt mean theres any duress on me to accept it as authentic unless there's proof. I have told you we (well atleast me and every other muslim in our mosque) dont consider Bukhari and Muslim infallible so it really doesnt affect us if they put in something wrong. AS and RA dont mean peace be upon him they mean may allah be pleased with him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_honorifics#Radi_Allahu_.27anhu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_be_upon_him_%28Islam%29#Terms_used_for_those_other_than_Muhammad Bring your proof stating otherwise.
I havent read your post on where you 'proved' Umar PBUH was a kafir. I wont be able to find it probably either seeing as there are 6 pages to this post. I have read somewhere that the Prophet PBUH even said that if there ever was a prophet after him it would've been Umar. I dont know if this is true or just is some propaganda made by an over zealous sunni. All the facts are against Umar PBUH being a kafir.
Umar PBUH was murdered whilst leading morning prayers. A kaafir wouldnt pray.
Be kind and generous to the Muhajirun and the Ansar. Those out of them who are good, be good to them; those who are bad overlook their lapses. Be good to the people of the conquered lands. They are the outer line of our defense; they are the target of the anger and distress of our enemies. They contribute to our revenues. They should be taxed only on their surplus wealth. Be gracious to the Bedouins as they are the backbone of the Arab nation. I instruct you to be good to the Dhimmis for they are your responsibility. Do not tax them beyond their capacity. Ensure that they pay the Jizya without undue inconvenience. Fear God, and in all that you do keep His pleasure in view. In the matter of people fear God, and in the matter of Allah do not be afraid of the people. With regard to the people, I enjoin upon you to administer justice with an even hand. See that all the legitimate requirements of the people are met. Be concerned for their welfare. Ensure the safety of their person and property. See that the frontiers of our domains are not violated. Take strong steps to guard the frontiers. In the matter of administration do not prefer the rich to the poor. Be hard against those who violate the law. Show them no mercy. Do not rest content until you have brought the miscreants to book. Treat all the people as equal. Be a pillar of strength for those who are weak and oppressed. Those who are strong but do wrong, make them pay for their wrong-doings. In the distribution of booty and other matters be above nepotism. Let no consideration of relationship or selfish interest weigh with you. The Satan is at large; it may tempt you. Rise above all temptations and perform your duties in accordance with the injunctions of Islam. Get guidance from the Holy Quran and Sunnah. Freely consult the wise men around you. Apply your own mind in difficult cases, and seek light from God. Be simple in your living and your habits. Let there be no show or ostentation about you. Lead life as a model Muslim. As you are the leader of the Muslims, justify your leadership by being the best among them all. May God bless you.
His testament.
Umar PBUH was the first to create a department for complaints against the authorities. Would a usurper and kafir do that?
This is only a tiny example but it shows he was a man who tried at his utmost ability to live like Islam ordered.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on February 05, 2013, 12:28:13 PM
Keep the following Noble Verse in mind as you read the following detailed rebuttal:
[018:102] Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
18:102 افحسب الذين كفروا ان يتخذوا عبادي من دوني اولياء انا اعتدنا جهنم للكافرين نزلا
More Noble Verses below....
Also, let me make it clear that the "Shias" (notice the double quotes) that do not do the things that are mentioned in details below, are not Shias, and they may very well be ordinary Muslims. Many of the general public of any faith, and even cults, are not that religious, and may not necessarily follow their cults' ways. Such "Shias" in this case are ordinary Muslims, and not a cult, as long as they truly DO NOT follow nor believe in the polytheistic things that are detailed below. And such people are strongly advised to distance themselves from this polytheistic and deviant cult.
Quote
@Osama
My comment proves your lies about Shia, you just want to mix other sects beliefs with Shia beliefs. Shias say ya Ali (as) as the prophet (saww) said ya Ali (as) whenever he wanted something done, its sunna. We don't say ya Ali (as) when we make duas, we ask Allah (SWT) alone. If Shias were idol worshippers all Sunni shiekhs would focus on that issue as then Shias can't say nothing as they go directly against the Quran like sunnis (5:6 is an example).
"Furthermore, even if everything you say about the creations is true, then this doesn't have any theological implications today. The Holy Quran is still the Holy Quran, and the Sunna still remains the Sunna."
You don't follow the sunna of the prophet (saww), you follow Umar's innovations, you follow the sunna of Umar.
Are the Sunnies paying attention here? Even the Prophet of Islam used to call unto Ali when he needed help and needed to get something done.
"We don't say ya Ali (as) when we make duas, we ask Allah (SWT) alone."
False! And the proof about this is from your top scholars from Najaf and Qum who said that IT IS A MUST UPON YOU to call unto Ali as well when you make supplication and prayer to Allah Almighty. Calling unto Allah Almighty isn't enough.
In fact, one of your scholars in the video mocked the Sunnies by saying "Screem all you want to Allah and you won't be heard". Would any Sunni Sheikh or Scholar DARE to say this? The answer is clearly no.
To the reader again, watch these videos and see the ample clips of their top scholars for yoursef:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv (Arabic)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv (English)
Furthermore, in real Islam, we seek and worship Allah Almighty Alone. Not only that, but the best way to make supplications or requests from Allah Almighty is to ask Him, the Almighty, in humility while your face is on the ground in prostration. This is a foreign concept in Shiism's polytheistic cult. You have to ask Ali or anyone from the people of the Bayt to go to Allah Almighty and make the request on your behalf (http://www.answering-christianity.com/shias_kufr_exposed.wmv) [2 (http://www.answering-christianity.com/shia_kufur_in_english_part_1.wmv)]. It's compulsory upon you! It's not an option. Otherwise, you're not a Shia if you don't, because your top scholars clearly command this, and it's well known that it is widely practiced among the Shias, and you yourself even strongly defended it here (see links to our dialogue below). We don't seek Allah Almighty THROUGH any mediator. This is one major fundamental difference between us and you. And again, Allah Almighty said regarding the likes of your polytheistic cult:
[018:102] Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
18:102 افحسب الذين كفروا ان يتخذوا عبادي من دوني اولياء انا اعتدنا جهنم للكافرين نزلا
More Noble Verses of this kind below....
The following video demonstrates how the real Muslims pray to Allah Almighty in contrast with the Christians' mass hysteria and absurdities:
The Christians' Mass Hysteria
 |
 |
The Muslims' Proper Prayer
 |
 |
"You don't follow the sunna of the prophet (saww), you follow Umar's innovations, you follow the sunna of Umar."
Your polytheistic cult MUST vilify some of the Companions of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all of the Righteous Believers, in order for it to justify itself and its very own existence. Otherwise, it would crumble into devestation from within. It would self-refute and self-nullify itself. And even with the vilification, it still self-refutes and self-nullifies itself as the following three main points, among many, clear demonstrate:
1- Caliph Umar, the 2nd Islamic Rightly Guided Caliph, who spread Islam to Persia and liberated all of Arabia from Persia and Rome, is among the very least narrators of the Hadiths. Not only that, but he also married Ali's daughter according to even your sources (http://www.livingislam.org/o/umuk_e.html)! So there is no doubt to any ordinary and objective Muslim that he was a righteous believer, even with his short-comings and mistakes in judgement, where he was corrected by Ali and others, peace be upon all of them. But despite all of this, even if we were to remove all of the Hadiths that Umar narrated, and throw them all out, that still wouldn't even create a dent in the Sunnah and the vast Hadiths collections that we have from the many many Companions, who worked tirelessly to preserve the Glorious Quran and the Sunnah. To the reader, please visit the following link to see the Glorious Quran's Overwhelming Scientific Miracles:
a- The Overwhelming Scientific Miracles in the Glorious Quran (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links). Allah Almighty Said:
"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things? (The Noble Quran, 41:53)"
Indeed, this Divine Promise by Allah Almighty has been proven to be 100% True by the Scientific discoveries of today, that are in great harmony with the Glorious Quran's Scientific Notions about how Allah Almighty created certain things.
Furthermore, let's never forget the Glorious Quran's #19 Miracle, which Allah Almighty called "One of the Greatest Miracles" (74:35) [1 (http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links)], which only our Computer Age today could verify. This Great Miracle was made and designed for us today.
2- Furthermore, ask any of your Shia scholars, your "Hadiths" were written at least 100-200 years after our Hadiths. So if you reject our Sunnah, then certainly you have nothing to stand on. Also, our Hadiths are widely used by your scholars. They always quote from them and use them, even when teaching to other Shias.
3- Furthermore, Allah Almighty Commanded us to never dwell in the past of the people before us, nor bear responsibility for what they did:
[002:134] That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!
2:134 تلك امة قد خلت لها ماكسبت ولكم ماكسبتم ولاتسألون عما كانوا يعملون
[002:141] That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case:
2:141 تلك امة قد خلت لها ماكسبت ولكم ماكسبتم ولاتسألون عما كانوا يعملون
So forcing the Muslims to live the past of what people did to each others 1,400 years ago is clearly forbidden in the Glorious Quran. And remember also that Allah Almighty forbade creating tumult and inner-conflicts among Muslims. It is so forbidden, that Allah Almighty said that it is worse than slaughter:
[002:191] And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.
Anyway, so much for your tumult, continuous too-lengthy-spams (that I had to remove, and nonsense. I am going to ban you and lock this topic to prevent further fitnah. I just wanted the Muslims to see for themselves what these infidels are like. And yes, they are infidels, because they are polytheists.
To the reader, visit:
www.answering-christianity.com/muslim_polytheists.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac11.htm#links
Also, if you wish to see the direct dialogues that I had with Amar in this thread (since it has too many posts), then visit these links:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2858.html#msg2858
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2753.html#msg2753
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2792.html#msg2792
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2821.html#msg2821
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2831.html#msg2831 (this is also where they inflict bloody punishment on themselves and their children TODAY for betraying and disowning Hussein 1,400 years ago.)
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2841.html#msg2841
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2844.html#msg2844 (This is where I explain why he would get banned. He was spamming.)
Furthermore, again, watch this video to see how they cut themselves and their children for also mere creations as well, as self-inflicting punishment upon themselves and their children (http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,561.msg2831.html#msg2831) for betraying Hussein 1,400 years ago:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shia_1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/despicable_shias.wmv)
Warning!! Extremely Graphic!
He almost cut his entire back deeply open. See how these
polytheists are a cult of infidels who are not Muslims.
I ask you and ask everyone here by the Holy Name of Allah Almighty, if this is not idol worship and polytheism, then what is it??
I'd like to end this rebuttal with the following Noble Verses for all Shias to ponder upon (along with every other one I presented):
[018:103] Say: "Shall we tell you of those who lose most in respect of their deeds?-
[018:104] "Those whose efforts have been wasted in this life, while they thought that they were acquiring good by their works?"
And these Noble Verses:
[006:022] That day, We will gather them all together and We will say to those who associate partners with Him, “Now, where are all those beings you used to claim as partners (of Allah)?â€Â
[006:023] Then, they will not have any recourse except to say, “(We swear) by Allah, our Lord, we did not associate partners (with Allah).â€Â
[006:024] Observe, how they will lie against themselves. And the false gods they invent now, shall all vanish.
Your obsession with the People of the Bayt is far beyond mere reverence. It's clear idol worship. They are idolized by you. Do you not see that the following Noble Verses also apply to you:
[009:031] They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of God, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).
[003:064] Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will).
[018:102] Do the Unbelievers think that they can take My servants as protectors besides Me? (this includes Ali, Fatimah, Jesus, Mary, etc...) Verily We have prepared Hell for the Unbelievers for (their) entertainment.
What more could be said?! Certainly , not every single existing Shia is a polytheist or an idol worshiper. But the religion of Shiism is nothing but a false polytheistic cult. I hope this is abundantly clear to everyone. Stop dwelling in some the stupid past, Shias! It's not like anyone today has anything to do with it. So why beat the day lights and cut yourselves and your children (??) to almost-death?? For who?? And for what?? Allah Almighty clearly forbade you from doing this, as I clearly demonstrated in the ample Noble Verses above. Believe me everyone, there are many many more Noble Verses that I can provide. But the ones above should most definitely suffice for those who are guided.
And last and not least, did you also know that the word "Shia" is also forbidden in the Glorious Quran? Allah Almighty DIRECTLY told us to not be Shias (divisions) in the Glorious Quran (30:31-32). It's like you naming yourself a Kafir (infidel) Muslim, or a Mushrik (polythiestic) Muslim. It doesn't work. So even the name of this polytheistic and deviant cult is repulsive! Please also visit: www.answering-christianity.com/muslim_polytheists.htm (see main section 3, sub-section C).
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah