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Offline Qualities of Allah

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Noah
« on: June 17, 2021, 09:02:17 PM »
Assalamu Alaykum,
The Quran says Noah lived for 950 years in Verse 29:14,
[29:014]"Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."

Some Muslims argue that living for 950 years makes no sense and that is not what Allah meant. They say that Allah is not concerned with ages of people so Allah did not mention the age of Noah and instead Allah said "1000 less fifty" (not 950 directly). They argue that the word used for "years" in "1000 years" is سَنَةٍ, which is associated with bad years and for "minus 50 years" the word used was عَامًا, which is associated with good years. They prove this claim by saying that the use of the word عام is found in Quran 12:49, which reads: "'Then a year (عَامٌ) will come after that when people will receive showers, and in which they will press [grapes].'"

As you can see, the use of عام here denotes a good year where people will receive rains and make wine. And for the word سَنَة, they say that it is found in Quran 5:26: "He said: 'It will proscribed on them for forty years (سَنَةً). They will wander around the earth, so do not worry about such perverse people.'"

Here, the Holy Land is forbidden upon the Jews for 40 years and the word used was سَنَةً. So, those Muslims say that سنة refers to bad years and عام refers to good years. So, Muslims argue that for Noah's case, 1000 سنة is metaphorical and means that it means Noah experienced a lot of bad, oppressed years except only 50 عام, or only a few years of spiritual progress. They say that 1000 years minus 50 years does not mean Muslims just do easy math (1000-50=950) since Allah could have said 950 years directly.

So basically their argument is that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and not literal, saying that 1000 merely means a lot (of bad years) and 50 means a little (good years). Then they use Verse 29:43 to justify that the Quran was being metaphorical, "These are parables We make up for mankind, though only the learned will use their [powers of] reason."

"These are parables", they say means that Noah's age and many other stories in the Quran are metaphorical and this Verse is especially referring to Noah's age because both verses (the one about Noah's age and the other that says "these are parables") are in the same Surah (Surah Ankabut). Then, they also use Verse 48:23 to prove that lifespans are always the same and they are not getting shorter or longer. The Verse reads: "[This is] the established way of Allah which has occurred before. And never will you find in the way of Allah any change."

So they say Allah's way can not change, as a result lifespans cannot change either because they are part of Allah's way.

Finally, they go back to Verse 29:14 itself, "Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them for a thousand years, less fifty. Then the Flood overtook them, while they persisted in wrongdoing."

They say that it says he "remained" among his people and that it never says "he lived for". So they say that the Quran isn't talking about how long he lived at all.

Ok so here are the summaries of the points they made to prove that Noah did not live 950 years but a normal lifespan:

  • First, living 950 years makes no sense scientifically as scientists say that the lifespan is increasing, not decreasing.
  • Second, Allah is not concerned with the ages of people since it has nothing to do with guiding people.
  • Third, Allah never directly said 950 years but instead said 1000 سنة minus 50 عام. And they "proved" that عام means good years and سنة means bad years using Quran 12:49 and 5:26. They say that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and just mean that Noah achieved many years of oppression and only a few years of spiritual progress.
  • Fourth, the same chapter where Noah is said to live 950 years says in Verse 43 that God gives parables to mankind, concluding that God "confirms" Noah's age was a parable and not literal.
  • Fifth, Verse 48:23 is used to say that God does not change his way. Thus, "proving" that lifespans were never different and longer before and were always the same as they are part of God's way.
  • Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.
  • Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.

So these are their points, and is it possible for you to refute all the points they made? Please refute their claim point by point.

Thank you,
Qualities of Allah



Offline Sama

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Re: Noah
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 11:56:16 PM »
-Scientifically speaking, it's impossible to determine the age of death of a historical figure whose womb is not examined.
-There is nothing that makes his age of death impossible. Allah is All-powerful.

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2021, 04:01:56 PM »
-Scientifically speaking, it's impossible to determine the age of death of a historical figure whose womb is not examined.
-There is nothing that makes his age of death impossible. Allah is All-powerful.

Jazakumullah for the answer. However they made many points and not just this one.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Noah
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2021, 08:04:43 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

It is funny that the infidels find it impossible for Prophet Noah, peace be upon him, to have lived for 950 years (this would've been His Divine Miracle from Allah Almighty if only him made it that far in years), while they don't find it impossible that when their fathers' sperms and mothers' eggs united to form them, they were each at least 1,000,000 times smaller in size than what they are now.  As if this is not illogical in itself.  Yet, it materializes millions of times everyday.


Again, to respond to the infidels, a Muslim can easily shut them up by giving them the Glorious Quran's STUNNING Numerical and Scientific Miracles:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links


This will end the infidels' "circular reasoning" tricks; that it is true because the Quran says so, and the Quran is true because the Quran says so.  Yes, the Quran is True because the Quran is Miraculous, which proves that it is from Allah Almighty because it says that it was indeed sent down from Allah Almighty and is the Holy and Divine Words of Allah Almighty.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Noah
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2021, 08:15:59 AM »
Quote
Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.
Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.



The number of Letters and number of years perfectly matching exists throughout the Glorious Quran, and is one of the Quran's beautiful Numerical Miracles phenomenon that were discovered.  Prophet Noah's Chapter is written in exactly 950 Letters.  Not 951 or 949.  Prophet Noah is also the cornerstone of the Glorious Quran's number 19 Miracle.  He is the only Prophet that was given this Divine Honor from Allah Almighty.  This is thoroughly demonstrated with 1000s of scanned images at:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


The doomed-to-Hell infidels are bankrupt, and they're on their way to Eternal Destruction.  They think it is laughs and jokes.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2021, 08:43:28 AM »
Quote
Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.
Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.



The number of Letters and number of years perfectly matching exists throughout the Glorious Quran, and is one of the Quran's beautiful Numerical Miracles phenomenon that were discovered.  Prophet Noah's Chapter is written in exactly 950 Letters.  Not 951 or 949.  Prophet Noah is also the cornerstone of the Glorious Quran's number 19 Miracle.  He is the only Prophet that was given this Divine Honor from Allah Almighty.  This is thoroughly demonstrated with 1000s of scanned images at:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


The doomed-to-Hell infidels are bankrupt, and they're on their way to Eternal Destruction.  They think it is laughs and jokes.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Yes brother we agree that the Surah Nuh is made of 950 letters but these are Muslims making this claim and they also believe in the Quran. They just say the 950 years things is interpreted differently. So can you shut these hypocrites up by refuting it point by point?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Noah
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2021, 01:10:42 PM »
First, living 950 years makes no sense scientifically as scientists say that the lifespan is increasing, not decreasing.

In Hell Fire it will make perfect sense to all of the infidel scumbags.

Second, Allah is not concerned with the ages of people since it has nothing to do with guiding people.

Says who?  The infidel scumbags?


Third, Allah never directly said 950 years but instead said 1000 سنة minus 50 عام. And they "proved" that عام means good years and سنة means bad years using Quran 12:49 and 5:26. They say that 1000 and 50 are metaphorical numbers and just mean that Noah achieved many years of oppression and only a few years of spiritual progress.

Year has three Noble Words in the Glorious Quran:  Aam, Sanah, Howl.  Allah Almighty choosing any of them in any place in the Noble Verses throughout the Glorious Quran is done through His Divine Purpose and Design.


Fourth, the same chapter where Noah is said to live 950 years says in Verse 43 that God gives parables to mankind, concluding that God "confirms" Noah's age was a parable and not literal.

The Parable is for the reader and all humans to learn from the Wisdom of Prophet Nuh's story.  It doesn't say that the 950 years were metaphorical.

Fifth, Verse 48:23 is used to say that God does not change his way. Thus, "proving" that lifespans were never different and longer before and were always the same as they are part of God's way.

Lying on GOD Almighty again.  What does a Miracle of a Prophet living for 950 years have to do with Allah Almighty's Ways.

Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.

Whether the Prophet lived for 950 years total or spent 950 years in one community remains a mystery.  I believe he lived a total of 950 years from birth to death.  But none of this really matters.  What matters here is the STUNNING Numerical Miracle in the number of years and the number of Letters that make up the entire Chapter of Noah.


Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.

In Hell Fire they'll tell the infidels all of the math and reckoning that they've dismally missed.



Quote
Sixth, Verse 29:14 itself says that Noah REMAINED WITH HIS PEOPLE, and not lived, for 1000 minus 50 years, thus "proving" that the Quran never said Noah lived for 950 years.
Finally, they say that after doing the math, 1000 سنة minus 50 عام, which unit should the answer be in, سنة or عام? Thus, they say that just doing simple math here doesn't make sense, "falsyfing" the claim that Noah lived for 950 years. (I find this reasoning to be poor because سنة and عام mean the same thing and are synonyms, so the answer would be in سنة or عام.



The number of Letters and number of years perfectly matching exists throughout the Glorious Quran, and is one of the Quran's beautiful Numerical Miracles phenomenon that were discovered.  Prophet Noah's Chapter is written in exactly 950 Letters.  Not 951 or 949.  Prophet Noah is also the cornerstone of the Glorious Quran's number 19 Miracle.  He is the only Prophet that was given this Divine Honor from Allah Almighty.  This is thoroughly demonstrated with 1000s of scanned images at:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


The doomed-to-Hell infidels are bankrupt, and they're on their way to Eternal Destruction.  They think it is laughs and jokes.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2021, 07:56:15 AM »
Lol, thanks for the answers. I can disprove them now even more on the third point. Just discovered that for Verse 31:14,
"And We have commanded people to ˹honour˺ their parents. Their mothers bore them through hardship upon hardship, and their weaning takes two years (عامين). So be grateful to Me and your parents. To Me is the final return."

The word used here was عامين (dual form of عام) which is supposed to mean "good years" according to them. Except literally when the Verse says the mother faced "hardship upon hardship" for two عام, I dont think those عام were "good years". Now if they argue that the baby's weaning in the baby's point of view were part of the "good years", I dont think trying to give the baby other food, they would like to be given food other than breast milk when that is all that it wants.  So that is also hardship.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 08:54:04 AM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2021, 02:37:32 PM »
Is Noah's flood local or global? I know that you say it is local because why would Allah punish all nations just for one nation? However, the Quran seems to suggest that the flood was global.

[17:003]"O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant."

Why would the Quran say "O descendants of those we carried in the ship with Noah" like Noah and his people were the only ones living on Earth at the time? This seems to suggest that there were no other nations on Earth at the time of Noah except his nation so thats why the flood was global. Moving on:

[37:077]"And We made his (Noah's) descendants those remaining [on the earth]"

This Verse suggests that Noah's descendants are the only ones left on Earth. The last Verse that seems to be clear that the ones on the Ark were the ancestors of everyone on Earth:

[69:011]"Indeed, when the floodwater had overflowed, We carried you in the floating Ark ˹with Noah˺,"

This Verse is saying that WE were carried in the Ark. This means that the ancestors of everyone (and us) on Earth are those who were on the Ark. This shows that there was no other community on Earth except Noah's at that time (because Noah existed towards the beginning of humanity's creation so humans were probably not scattered throughout the Earth yet).

There was another Verse that I found saying something like "if We willed, We would have drowned your ancestors in the Flood" but I forgot where it is now. This Verse was the best in seeming to suggest that the Flood was global but I cannot find it now.

So what do you think about these 3 Verses?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Noah
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2021, 01:40:44 AM »
Noah, peace be upon him, was sent to specific group of people.  From him came the bloodline of Prophets after him.  Allah Almighty also made him the cornerstone of the number 19 Numerical Miracle in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm#cornerstone
www.answering-christianity.com/100_percent_guarantee_that_quran_is_divine.htm


[007:069]  "Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? call in remembrance that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from God: that so ye may prosper."

Only the nation of Noah drowned.  Other nations survived.  The flood was local. 


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2021, 12:47:59 PM »
So according to Quran 37:77 and you, from Noah came the bloodline of Prophets and later all other nations except Noah's perished (not in the Flood but for other reasons)? Because Quran 37:77 says only Noah's descendants are those remaining on Earth.

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Re: Noah
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2021, 05:31:54 PM »
No, nations already existed when the flood happened.  But the bloodline of Abraham and others all came from Noah.

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2021, 09:15:25 PM »
Then why does Quran 37:77 say only Noah's descendants are remaining on Earth if other nations already existed? Shouldn't those nations' descendants also be existing today?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Noah
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2021, 06:04:56 AM »
[007:069]  "Do ye wonder that there hath come to you a message from your Lord through a man of your own people, to warn you? call in remembrance that He made you inheritors after the people of Noah, and gave you a stature tall among the nations. Call in remembrance the benefits (ye have received) from God: that so ye may prosper."

The people of Noah's doom was a time-mark for a Divine Purpose only known to Allah Almighty.  Their doom was to happen so that other Prophets and people were to emerge tall among all of the nations.

[037:077]  We arranged it so that only his progeny survived (the flood).

This Noble Verse does not talk about the entire globe being covered with water.  It only talked about the followers of Noah and the people of Noah:

[037:075]  Earlier, Nooh called Us and We responded. We are simply the Best of those who respond.
[037:076]  We rescued him and his household from an awful torture.
[037:077]  We arranged it so that only his progeny ذريته survived (the flood).
[037:078]  And among the generations to follow, We let his name be honored and revered.
[037:079]  Peace (and honor) is for ‘Nooh’ in the entire universe among all people في العالمين!
[037:080]  This is really how We reward the righteous ones!



Also, seed ذريته of Noah here includes the Prophets that will come after him from the future generations:

‏6:84 ووهبنا له اسحاق ويعقوب كلا هدينا ونوحا هدينا من قبل ومن ذريته داوود وسليمان وايوب ويوسف وموسى وهارون وكذلك نجزي المحسنين

[006:084]  We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good:


The Muslims are the seed of Noah:

‏6:133 وربك الغني ذو الرحمة ان يشا يذهبكم ويستخلف من بعدكم مايشاء كما انشاكم من ذرية قوم اخرين

[006:133]  Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people.


Before Islam, the Arabs were on the edge of getting doomed by Allah Almighty.  Islam saved them.  When they succeeded in accepting and embracing Islam, they were saved:

‏3:103 واعتصموا بحبل الله جميعا ولاتفرقوا واذكروا نعمة الله عليكم اذ كنتم اعداء فالف بين قلوبكم فاصبحتم بنعمته اخوانا وكنتم على شفا حفرة من النار فانقذكم منها كذلك يبين الله لكم اياته لعلكم تهتدون

[003:103]  Cling firmly to the rope of Allah, all of you together (as a single entity)! Do not fall into disunity. Remember the favors of Allah upon you, when you were each other’s enemy? He brought your hearts together; and so by His grace you became (like) brothers. You were (perched precariously) at the brink of a fire filled abyss على شفا حفرة من النار. But He saved you from it. Thus Allah makes the revelations clear to you. Perhaps you will find the right path.



Bloodline of Covenants:

Three times was‏  وتركنا عليه في الاخرين   "And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times" mentioned throughout the Glorious Quran.  It was mentioned for:

1-  Noah in Noble Verse 37:78 above.

2-  Ishmael and his future Covenant after Isaac's Covenant comes to pass:  https://www.answering-christianity.com/isaac_and_ishmael.htm

3-  Ilyaas when he warned his people to stop worshiping the pagan god and idol, Baal.


[037:102]  Then, when (the son) reached (the age of) (serious) work with him, he said: "O my son! I see in vision that I offer thee in sacrifice: Now see what is thy view!" (The son) said: "O my father! Do as thou art commanded: thou will find me, if God so wills one practising Patience and Constancy!"
[037:103]  So when they had both submitted their wills (to God), and he had laid him prostrate on his forehead (for sacrifice),
[037:104]  We called out to him "O Abraham!
[037:105]  "Thou hast already fulfilled the vision!" - thus indeed do We reward those who do right.
[037:106]  For this was obviously a trial-
[037:107]  And We ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice:
[037:108]  And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

‏37:102 فلما بلغ معه السعي قال يابني اني ارى في المنام اني اذبحك فانظر ماذا ترى قال ياابت افعل ماتؤمر ستجدني ان شاء الله من الصابرين
‏37:103 فلما اسلما وتله للجبين
‏37:104 وناديناه ان ياابراهيم
‏37:105 قد صدقت الرؤيا انا كذلك نجزي المحسنين
‏37:106 ان هذا لهو البلاء المبين
‏37:107 وفديناه بذبح عظيم
‏37:108 وتركنا عليه في الاخرين



Ishmael was true to his promise that he made to his father in Noble Verse 37:102 above: 

[019:054] Also mention in the Book (the story of) Isma'il: He was (strictly) true to what he promised صادق الوعد, and he was an apostle (and) a prophet.


[037:123]  So also was Elias among those sent (by Us).
[037:124]  Behold, he said to his people, "Will ye not fear (God)?
[037:125]  "Will ye call upon Baal and forsake the Best of Creators,-
[037:126]  "God, your Lord and Cherisher and the Lord and Cherisher of your fathers of old?"
[037:127]  But they rejected him, and they will certainly be called up (for punishment),-
[037:128]  Except the sincere and devoted Servants of God (among them).
[037:129]  And We left (this blessing) for him among generations (to come) in later times:

‏37:123 وان الياس لمن المرسلين
‏37:124 اذ قال لقومه الا تتقون
‏37:125 اتدعون بعلا وتذرون احسن الخالقين
‏37:126 الله ربكم ورب ابائكم الاولين
‏37:127 فكذبوه فانهم لمحضرون
‏37:128 الا عباد الله المخلصين
‏37:129 وتركنا عليه في الاخرين


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Qualities of Allah

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Re: Noah
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2021, 05:02:28 PM »
Sorry for the long suspension of this conversation but I am back.

Quote
The people of Noah's doom was a time-mark for a Divine Purpose only known to Allah Almighty.  Their doom was to happen so that other Prophets and people were to emerge tall among all of the nations.

Quote
Also, seed ذريته of Noah here includes the Prophets that will come after him from the future generations:

‏6:84 ووهبنا له اسحاق ويعقوب كلا هدينا ونوحا هدينا من قبل ومن ذريته داوود وسليمان وايوب ويوسف وموسى وهارون وكذلك نجزي المحسنين

[006:084]  We gave him Isaac and Jacob: all (three) guided: and before him, We guided Noah, and among his progeny, David, Solomon, Job, Joseph, Moses, and Aaron: thus do We reward those who do good:
Quote
The Muslims are the seed of Noah:

‏6:133 وربك الغني ذو الرحمة ان يشا يذهبكم ويستخلف من بعدكم مايشاء كما انشاكم من ذرية قوم اخرين

[006:133]  Thy Lord is self-sufficient, full of Mercy: if it were His will, He could destroy you, and in your place appoint whom He will as your successors, even as He raised you up from the posterity of other people.

Are you saying that all the Prophets that came after Noah as well as us Muslims are the metaphorical descendants of Noah? You said Noah's flood was a time mark of a Divine Purpose so that other Prophets from different nations will emerge after him, which makes me think that they are metaphorical descendants of Noah since those prophets cannot be literal descendants because they came from other nations besides Noah's. And, as you said, Q 6:84 says that the seed of Noah are those Prophets that will emerge after him. Again, this makes me think that by "descendants", the Quran meant descendants metaphorically, and not literally.

However, if I misunderstood you and you meant all these Prophets and us Muslims are literal descendants of Noah, then is everyone on Earth currently a descendant of Noah or not? Currently, people convert to Islam and if they were not descendants of Noah before they cannot automatically become a literal descendant of Noah after converting. Or by Muslims, did the Quran mean the Arabs (who became Muslim first) are the descendants of Noah?

Tafsir ibn Kathir says this about this topic, " '(And, his progeny, them We made the survivors.)' All people descended from the offspring of Nuh, peace be upon him.'' There is some hadith that tries to explain this, "Sam (Sam, Ham, and Yafith, apparently the sons of Noah) was the father of the Arabs, Ham was the father of the Ethiopians and Yafith was the father of the Romans.''

What do you think about the hadith and tafsir mentioned above?


 

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