Answering Christianity Research Center
MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: yahya on October 12, 2016, 07:52:44 PM
-
Assalam alikum there is a hadith witch says that muhammad said don't enter the homes of thamud in mada'in saleh but that's the problem these homes were built by the nabtions not thamud so a lot of Christians use this hadith to say muhammad got it wrong and they use verses 27:52 28:58 29:38 22:45 91:14 11:68 to say quran says as well these hoses were built by thamud but they weren't they were built by the nabtions and that is fact so the Christians use this hadith and verses to say the quran and hadith are wrong so how do we explain back to them it is mostly the hadith what is the problem not the verses because they use this hadith to interpret these verses so it is the hadith what is the most problem and what needs the most explaining so if you could help that would be great
-
Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother,
First, welcome to the board. May Allah Almighty continue to lead you and keep you in Islam. Ameen.
I have one issue with your post. Please do not post empty assertions here. You said:
"there is a hadith witch says that muhammad said don't enter the homes of thamud"
I am not aware of such Hadith. Therefore, I will have to assume that it is a fabricated lie that was passed to you. Many infidels fabricate lies on the internet to confuse Muslims.
Also, when you address our Prophet, please say "Prophet Muhammad". Not just Muhammad.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
-
civilization in an area doesnt necessarily start with the Nabateans.
-
Assalam alikum I apologise for any offence I will find the hadith it is in bukari or muslim I will find it jazzakkallah
-
Assalam alikum here is the hadith the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allaah be upon him), when he passed by al-Hijr – which was the dwelling place of Thamood – said: “Do not enter the dwelling places of those who wronged themselves, lest there befall you what befell them, unless you are weeping.” Then he covered his head and hastened until he left the valley. Narrated by al-Bukhaari in his Saheeh from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him).
Is it possible that the prophet was speaking symbolic because the Arabs were well known to speaking symbolic that is it possible that the prophet wasn't necessary talking about these specific houses tombs what the nabateans built but more saying the land of thamud but by saying houses the prophet ment symbolic the land and not specifically literally houses is that possible or not and if not then how do we explain this hadith because scientific and historic it is fact that the nabateans built these houses tombs and not thamud jazzakkallah
-
Thamud lives in 22nd century BC
Nabateans were from 2nd century BC.
Thamud houses should have their ceilings collapsed and their people perished.
So the earthquake seized them, and they became within their home [corpses] fallen prone. (7:78)
The dwelling of Thamud
This suggestion is supported by ʿAbdullah ibn ʿUmar and Ibn Kathir who report that people called the region of Thamud Al-Hijr, while they called the province of Mada'in Saleh as Ardh Thamud (Land of Thamud) and Bayt Thamud (house of Thamud).[16][17] The conclusion that can be taken from the evidences above is that the term ‘Thamud’ was not applied to the groups that lived in Mada'in Saleh, such as Lihyanites and Nabataeans,[18][19] but rather to the region itself.
-
Assalam alikum so you are agreeing these tombs are not built by thamud but they were built by the nabtions is that what you are saying because these tombs ceilings haven't collapsed fallen down but how do we explain the hadith or are you saying the hadith is symbolic and talking about the land by houses or are you saying midian al saleh is not wear thamud lived or are you say the prophet is speaking about other houses what we haven't seen and is not speaking about these tombs is that what you are saying or not jazzakkallah
-
Or are you saying the hadith is wrong fabricated
-
The design of Nabatean tomb is similar to Lycian-Greek's in Turkey of 5th century BC, Thamud were from 22century BC.
The land might be at the exact same place or different. For ancient civilization in desert, they shall revolve around source of water. And if the source of water still exist, the location may still attract inhabitants even millenias later.
Narrated `Abdullah bin `Umar: The people landed at the land of Thamud called Al-Hijr along with Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) and they took water from its well for drinking and kneading the dough with it as well. (When Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) heard about it) he ordered them to pour out the water they had taken from its wells and feed the camels with the dough, and ordered them to take water from the well whence the she-camel (of Prophet Salih) used to drink.
-
Thanks and I agree with all that but it is the bit in the hadith above where the prophet said don't enter there dwellings and that is the bit where my problem lies because it makes it sound like that the prophet thought that these houses tombs were built by thamud but that is wrong because we know that the nabateans built them and that is what the athiests and christions use so how do we explain that hadith above because the hadith that you brought I don't have a problem because the hadith you brought the prophet mentions nothing about the tombs houses so there is nothing wrong with your hadith but it's my hadith that I have the problem because of the don't enter the dwellings part or does dwellings mean lands instead of literal houses jazzakkallah sorry to keep bothering you
-
Also did you say that thamud houses there roofs have to be caved in fallen apart down is that right jazzakkallah
-
the dwellings should refer to ruined houses on mountains as they passed thru a valley.
Also city of Al-Hijr is defined to be between Wadi Al-Qura and Greater Syria.
-
So you are saying these are not built by thamud and the houses on ruined are on the mountions not in the mountions and that is what the hadith means is that right and there roofs are ment to have collapsed and the houses itself is that what you are saying jazzakkallah
-
I dont think they are built by Thamud as the desgin is similar to those in Lycians of Turkey. The tombs/structures are spotted with Nabatean inscriptions too.
As for collapsed houses and castles due to earthquake from Thamud era should have withered a lot.
-
Thanks so yea there houses have had to collapsed by the earthqauke so they were all destroyed so the hadith is either wrong or symbolic meaning the land not literally the houses because the quran says they collapsed so destroyed so thanks
-
Assalam alikum submitter sorry to bother you but just a conclusion you said that for these tombs to be thamud they would have to have there roofs caved in and look in ruin and to be houses like big inside and palaces not tombs is that correct jazzakkallah
-
yes it should looked in ruin, collapsed.
as for size, i doubt it will be big like palace.
-
Thanks when you say the size you mean because there that destroyed they can't be that big anymore is that right jazzakkallah
-
size of houses of ancient civilizations should be small not because of destruction.
-
What would be the reason that they are small, because weren't thamud over sized people.
-
even if they are oversized, at best they're perhaps just 8ft tall. ancient houses normally just need few living areas.
-
Then even tho I agree with you that there tombs and they were built by the nabtions then why couldn't they be the houses to you if they have to be small
-
Then even tho I agree with you that there tombs and they were built by the nabtions then why couldn't they be the houses to you if they have to be small
As'salamu Alaikum,
Home and house in Arabic are the same word. Also, big houses would require a lot more work and more professional builders. Otherwise, the house would collapse. So the average person would have a very small modern day STUDIO-LIKE home. People were primitive back then.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
-
Assalam alikum submit also you said there population had to be big like 20 thousand so you if that was the case there had to be at least 5 thousand buildings in there time is that correct jazzakkallah
-
And Assalam alikum submit you said the roofs in the mountion homes have to have there roofs caved in the mountions homes is that correct so that's why to you they can't be thamud buildings is that correct submit
-
"Sharon",
I am so sick and tired of your nonsense. I know you're not a woman, and you're some infidel bastard desperately trying to attack Islam. I gave you many chances so that I wouldn't be unfair to you. But I am tired of your nonsense. You are banned.
Get lost to Hell where you belong. You do not deserve Islam.
Osama Abdallah
-
Assalam alikum I was just reading this and I was just wondering so does this (ʿAbdullah ibn ʿUmar and Ibn Kathir who report that people called the region of Thamud Al-Hijr, while they called the province of Mada'in Saleh as Ardh Thamud (Land of Thamud) and Bayt Thamud(house of Thamud).[16][17] The conclusion that can be taken from the evidences above is that the term ‘Thamud’ was not applied to the groups that lived in Mada'in Saleh, such asLihyanites and Nabataeans,[18][19] but rather to the region itself.) Does this Mean that al hijr is a name given to thamud not mada'in al saleh and the name thamud was given to mada'in al saleh not that al hijr was given to mada'in al saleh also where is wadi al’qura
-
So you lied and came in as "Sharon". And now you're "Mark". And you copy and paste from websites and post here.
What "evidence above" did you provide that refutes the Islamic claims? The people back then were familiar with Ad and Thamud, and references were made regarding them in the Glorious Quran and Hadiths. Even if you're not a Muslim, you can still see that there are historical and archaeological references in our texts, and the people back then understood them.
To the reader, visit the following links to see the Glorious Quran's and Islam's STUNNING Miracles:
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#numerical_miracles
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#archeology
You got nothing but noise and falsehood on Islam. We have the Divine Truth from Allah Almighty.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
-
Asalam ul laykum i am not sure either if it is the same persn. But anyways, what the point that brother osama is making is that, those extra details are irrelevant. The point is that allah swt talked about this nation in the quran, and told ua that he deatroyed them but kept there reminants as a sign for us. That at itself is proof enough. Nitpicking at every small detail is called useless information that prophet muhammad pbuh warned us about. But asking such questions proves nothing allbit does is waste time and even if u learn something u can never make use of it because the relevant information was already proven, so basically all that was done through asking nitpick questions was nothing. Honestly, knowing what civilization they could have been or trying to connect it to what western history says, is useless because even they admit to making up stuff. So brother or sister or whoever u might be, plz these extra details are a waste of everyone's time. It is like asking if there is a water and plants on a planet that is too near the sun, even if there was some how u can never live on it because the sun would kill u. So plz don't waste time with these nonsense.