Author Topic: How do i reply to this accusation?  (Read 5403 times)

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Offline mendacium remedium

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How do i reply to this accusation?
« on: May 04, 2013, 11:56:11 AM »
"Isis was not human. She was a goddess. Why do I link everything to ancient Egyptian mythology? Well, we are discussing pre-islamic Arabia. How can we not relate it to Egypt? And we are discussing the Old Testament history, how can we not discuss Egypt? Egyptian religion is central to a lot in the Old Testament. Without Egypt there would be no Moses. Abraham came from the Mesopotamia, Harran. Harran is the city of the moon. The Kaba at Mecca was built by Adam. It was the Egyptian Atum (or Tum) who layed the benben stone thousands of years ealier, presumbly at Dumascus (Damascus). This stone was rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmael at Mecca, which the Egyptians called Makkhu relating to the four corners of the cosmos, and the two points of crossing, the boundary markers between Mount Manu and Mount Bakku. These are Safa and Marwa in Islam. The praying 5 times towards Mecca might have been a pre-islamic tradition relating to the moon. The moon was associated with the number 5, the epagomenal days. This is related to the Egyptians when the god Thoth won 5 days for the moon. Mohammed would have kept this observance but removed the Pagan notices, because he wanted to move away from polytheism.

So ancient Egypt and the pre-islamic peoples share a mythology. Islam shares a history with the pre-Islamic peoples, because we are told that Mohammed's parents were of the Quraiysh. Also Mohammed himself was called a Sabean. Some of these Sabeans, who were known for their science and knowledge, probably became the scholars who wrote the Koran.

So Egypt shows us a lot about Islam (and Christianity and Judaism). It shows us where they derived their legends."




Thank you brothers and sisters!

Offline Tanveer

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Re: How do i reply to this accusation?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 01:29:50 PM »
Hardly anything comes up on google on these topics so i personally cant help im afraid :( I did notice however that your opponent said the benben stone was 'presumably' layed at damacus. I personally would throw this argument away because the person doesnt know 100%. I would do the same for the argument that the 5 daily prayers 'might' be related to the moon. As for the rest, maybe someone else can help.

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: How do i reply to this accusation?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 04:16:47 PM »
AsalamuAlaikum,

They've listed a lot of stuff here. But have they provided any  references or proofs? Any links to eygpytologists? No. So this argument carries no weight. It could be the ramblings of a mad man without any proof. I would just sincerely ask them to provide any proof for there claims. I could claim well the Qur'an includes Moses so some Jewish people in medina wrote the Qur'an. Any references or proofs? Nope just a cool idea.

WalakumAsalam.

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: How do i reply to this accusation?
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2013, 12:37:38 PM »
I REALLY got tired of these farces !
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Isis was not human. She was a goddess.
That's according to ancient Egyptians . What does it have to do with us ?

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Why do I link everything to ancient Egyptian mythology? Well, we are discussing pre-islamic Arabia. How can we not relate it to Egypt? And we are discussing the Old Testament history, how can we not discuss Egypt?
Aaaaah ! That's something I read about in a post titled ( Monotheists , beware the games of Atheists ! ) And one of their little tricks is to delude themselves and others that they're talking rationally by MAKING their words look scientific . He mentions at the beginning something we all know through common sense , so far so good , right ? And then , BAM ! Out of thin air , he makes a conclusion that is out of the logic range !
The same is here . First , he tells you that he's talking about pre-Islamic Arabian peninsula , and then he relates it to Egypt just like that ! Care to tell me what brings Egypt to Arab lands ?
Anyway , let's continue with the rants .

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Egyptian religion is central to a lot in the Old Testament. Without Egypt there would be no Moses.
If you want to talk about the similarities between Egyptian legends and Jewish ones , GO DO IT WITH JEWS !

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Abraham came from the Mesopotamia, Harran. Harran is the city of the moon.
According to history , he lived in Iraq and not the nation currently known as Turkey . Where do you get your information from ? And anyway , what does it have to do with anything ? If you're trying to refer to the fat lie of ( Moon God in Islam ) I just need to show you this to make you realize how wrong you are :
"And from among His Signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. Do not bow down (prostrate) to the sun nor to the moon, but only bow down (prostrate) to "Allah" Who created them, if you (really) worship Him."
[Noble Quran 41:37]

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The Kaba at Mecca was built by Adam
First of all , it is called Makkah . You should learn how to pronounce names correctly before you talk . Secondly , how insolent ! Don't you even know who built Kaba ?! What kind of sources do you take information from ?! It was built by the prophet Ibraheem and his son Isma'eel peace upon them . Who should I believe , you , or the holy Quran ?
"And [mention] when Abraham was raising the foundations of the House and [with him] Ishmael, [saying], "Our Lord, accept [this] from us. Indeed You are the Hearing, the Knowing"
[Noble Quran 2:127]

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It was the Egyptian Atum (or Tum) who layed the benben stone thousands of years ealier, presumbly at Dumascus (Damascus). This stone was rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmael at Mecca, which the Egyptians called Makkhu relating to the four corners of the cosmos,

So much ignorance in few words . First of all , we're the nation of proof . We don't take anything you say as a rule we must not disagree with . What's your evidence that prophet Ibraheem was the one who built the black stone ? What's your proof that it relates to that benben or whatever stone of Egyptians ? Is it just because it's at the corner of Kaba and it looks to you like it matches the Egyptians blieve that Makkhu is the four corners of the cosmos ? And anyway , I looked through Google for the word "Makkhu" and found NOTHING about it except this post . I'm not that surprised actually how you make an empty statement and deem it right while you have zero evidence to prove it .

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and the two points of crossing, the boundary markers between Mount Manu and Mount Bakku. These are Safa and Marwa in Islam.
Evidence ?

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The praying 5 times towards Mecca might have been a pre-islamic tradition relating to the moon. The moon was associated with the number 5, the epagomenal days. This is related to the Egyptians when the god Thoth won 5 days for the moon. Mohammed would have kept this observance but removed the Pagan notices, because he wanted to move away from polytheism.
Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been Might have been
Until you bring an evidence , your claims remain baseless .

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So ancient Egypt and the pre-islamic peoples share a mythology. Islam shares a history with the pre-Islamic peoples,
I should have bought aspirin on the way home today ! First of all , it doesn't relate to Islam if the pre-Islamic people shared a mythology with Egyptians . But as it clearly appears , you have ZERO evidence that they did . All you did was swimming in your vast imagination which would relate anything to anything . It reminds me of a little show on SpaceToon channel for children which was called "The odd link" . Here's an example .

What's the link between the grass and snow men ?
Grass feeds the sheep , the sheep gives us wool , wool is used to make gloves , and gloves are used while making snow men .

You see why it's called the odd link ?! Your accusations don't differ !

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because we are told that Mohammed's parents were of the Quraiysh.
OK , every elementary first grade schooler knows this . Now what kind of odd link are you going to give us ?

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Also Mohammed himself was called a Sabean. Some of these Sabeans, who were known for their science and knowledge, probably became the scholars who wrote the Koran.
What kind of rant is this ?! You say that he was from Quraish , and then you say he was from a tribe that lived in Yemen ?! Here's my advice to you : Stop embarrassing yourself !
And like every misguided person , you claim that Quran - And not Koran ! - was written by scholars and all . Now let me ask you some things :
1 - The prophet couldn't possibly read the language of Egyptians or even his own language . How can he take from these books ?
2 - The prophet only left the Arabian peninsula once to Habesha , where did he see these Egyptian scriptures ? The internet ?
3 - You talk as if he had a huge library of books of Christianity , Judaism , Hinduism , Buddhism , and some claim he had scriptures of some tribes living in the Americas which were not discovered yet ! How couldn't his tribe notice ? They would have even if the books he had were pocket size . But wait , books of ancient times were huge for your information :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book#History_of_books
Can you claim he was able to move these around without anybody noticing ?
4 - Let us give you a huge discount and say that he MAY have taken from these books . How could he choose the correct 5% of it and leave the rest ? Even when the Quran mentions stories already mentioned in the Bible , it doesn't say the errors it does . And it even adds more correct information which are not in the Bible . What are you going to say , coincidence ? And here's a good post for those who can read Arabic . It's about the miracle of Quran mentioning the exact location of prophet Nooh's ship .
http://www.eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?35727-%CF%E1%C7%C6%E1-%D8%E6%DD%C7%E4-%E4%E6%CD-%DA%E1%ED%E5-%C7%E1%D3%E1%C7%E3

And there are many more things to say which will level your claims to the ground . But a fair person is good with one evidence . And the haughty are not good with a thousand . I'm telling you , if a kid listens to what you're saying , he would say "Are you kidding me ?" with a look of disbelief .

Over , gotta get some Aspirin .

Offline Tanveer

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Re: How do i reply to this accusation?
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2013, 02:31:25 PM »
You seem very stressed Bro Black Muslim xD

 

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