Author Topic: Nun Whale new article  (Read 5433 times)

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Offline QuranSearchCom

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Nun Whale new article
« on: April 11, 2017, 04:22:01 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters in Islam,

The lie about the Glorious Quran saying that the earth is sitting on a back of a whale is exposed at:

Brother TruthExposer, keep up the great work!  Please use the points in this article.  May Allah Almighty bless you for bringing this point to my attention.  Ameen.

I will reply to the other brothers' requests on this blog when I get time, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2017, 06:55:34 PM »
Walaikum Asalalm, Brother Osama I don't know if your read my other points or either you didn't received them (In The Inbox) but anyway let me post it here:
This refutation is taken from an Ex-Atheist who writes at (he makes most article on "The Masked Arab") and he says (or he wrote):

Why The Masked Arab is Masked Falsehood Makes one Bashful Does the Quran Teach the earth was created on a giant whale?
(English isn't my first language so i might make grammatical mistakes)

It seams that Some of the masked arab fans are not careful readers, the point in this article is to address the claim that why are many scholars cite the Whale narrative, this question is a false assumption by the masked arab based on the following premises:

1-It dictates that Scholars must have general consensus and general agreement regarding the meaning of the litter, which as i will demonstrate later on, that this is not the case
2-The Scholars have cited many other possible meanings to the litter, rendering the masked arab Hypothesis to be futile.

from the above two premises we can clearly see that the masked arab question as to why many scholars regard the Whale narrative as the only possible explanation, Or as some of his fans strawman this question to desperately save his fallacious argument, as they put it, why do so many scholars cite the whale narrative in their Tafsirs, as stated again, from the above two premises, this question is regarded as a strawman on all scholars of the Tafsir, first non of them regard the whale narrative is the only possible explanation, which means that we don't have general consensus (Ijma') regarding the Issue
second, they cite many other possible meanings

Honestly this has to be one of the most deceptive videos, I have ever dealt with on YouTube, I actually couldn’t believe that the masked arab (spoiler alert) has completely left out sources that clearly puts an issue to his hypothesis, the reason why this will be my final reply to the masked arab channel in general, is because the amount of toxic atmosphere I sense among his fans, so far I received nothing but ad homienm attacks and insults from them, as so far no evidence suggest that any of them will change their mind, no credible response at all, so this will be my final reply to the masked arab one that is also was so easy to respond to and make
of course my responses are primarily for the muslims who allegedly watch his videos as he claim, but it's also for his fans if they wish a critical and unbiased reply

What needs to be meet:
For any case of general consensus we need Ijma’ of scholars on a particular issue to provide general understanding of a specific verse, so in order for the masked arab to make sense from his claim at least he need general consensus of scholars, any disagreement or contradiction will thoroughly dismiss his claims as false and doesn’t hold to the merits of the reality


The masked arab rambles in his video with incoherent claims that holds no merits to the subject of the video, I shall ignore it all together and start directly at the point where he start the video


Finally @6:14 of his video he actually start his argument, this was 6 minutes of incoherent rambling where he never addresses the main issue ahaid, but I shall start now critiquing his video
@6:40 he cites tafsir Ibn Kathir
@6:53 he stat the following “the first thing god created was the pen, he ordered it to write, it said, what shall I write? He said: write the fate of everything, so it wrote what will happen from that day until the day of judgement, then created the nun (whale), then he raised the water and created the heavens with it, and laid the earth on the back of the nun (whale), the nun (whale) moved and so did the earth, so it was fixed down with the mountains”

This is where my main issue lies down, what the masked arab did is that he dishonestly left out the rest of the tafsir where there is a clear contradiction regarding what non is and this story of creation, let us now use the very link and the very source used by the masked arab to uncover this dishonesty
Infact the next contradiction is a reported narration of a hadith from the prophet Muhammad himself, this is found in the very link to Ibn kathir Tafsir used by the masked arab

“[حديث آخر] في ذلك، رواه ابن عساكر عن أبي عبد الله مولى بني أمية عن أبي صالح عن أبي هريرة: سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول: " إن أول شيء خلقه الله القلم، ثم خلق النون، وهي الدواة، ثم قال له: اكتب، قال: وما أكتب؟ قال: اكتب ما يكون ــــ أو ما هو كائن ــــ من عمل أو رزق أو أثر أو أجل، فكتب ذلك إلى يوم القيامة، فذلك قوله: { نۤ وَٱلْقَلَمِ وَمَا يَسْطُرُونَ } ثم ختم على القلم، فلم يتكلم إلى يوم القيامة،[1]

Translate into: [another hadith] regarding that, it was narrated from ibn ‘askar from abi Abdullah  the master of the Banu Umayah from abi Salih from abi Huraira  I heard the prophet  Muhammad said: the first thing god created was the pen, then the Nun and it’s the inkwell then he said to it write, and it replied what shall I write, he said write what will happen or what is happening from a deed or gain or mark, then it wrote down to the day of resurrection and so it sais “nun by the pen and what they write” then he sealed down on the pen and never write till the judgment day

This is quite astonishing, the masked arab clearly left out this part of the tafsir because it clearly refute him, by now it shall be apparent that the video is refuted, we have a clear hadith from the prophet however the issue doesn’t stop there we have another alleged narration directly from the prophet in the very tafsir used by the masked arab right on 

قال ابن جرير: حدثنا الحسن بن شبيب المكتب، حدثنا محمد بن زياد الجزري عن فرات بن أبي الفرات عن معاوية بن قرة عن أبيه قال: قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم " { نۤ وَٱلْقَلَمِ وَمَا يَسْطُرُونَ }: لوح من نور، وقلم من نور يجري بما هو كائن إلى يوم القيامة وهذا مرسل غريب، وقال ابن جريج: أخبرت أن ذلك القلم من نور، طوله مئة عام، وقيل: المراد بقوله: { نۤ }: دواة، والقلم[2]

Translate into: Ibn Jarir said : we were told by Hasan ibn Shabib al-maktib, we were told by Muhammad bin ziad al-jizri from furat bin abi al-furat from mu’awia bin qura from his father said: the prophet said: [Nun, by the pen and what they write] it’s a tablet of light and the pen is from light that write down what happens to the day of resurrection,  and that hadith is Mursal (disconnected) garib (strange) and Ibn Jarir said: I was told that the pen is from light his length is hundred years and it was said: what he meant by [nun] it’s an inkwell

We will see later on the masked arab will glorify Ibn Abbas, but what makes it so ironic is that ibn abbas has another narration contradicting what the masked arab claims on page 2 of the link he gave
" خلق الله النون، وهي الدواة " وقال ابن جرير: حدثنا ابن حميد، حدثنا يعقوب، حدثنا أخي عيسى بن عبد الله، حدثنا ثابت الثمالي عن ابن عباس قال: إن الله خلق النون، وهي الدواة،[3]

Translate into: “god created nun and it’s the inkwell” and Ibn Jarir said: we were told by ibn hamid, ya’qub told us, we were told by my brother ‘isaa ibn abudllah, we were told by thabit al-thamani From Ibn Abbas he said: god has created nun and it’s the inkwell

وقال آخرون: { ن } حرف من حروف الرحمن[4]

Translate into: and others have said {nun} one of the letters of Rahman
It can’t get more embarrassing than that, this is the man that the masked arab will later on glorify as the ultimate authority in tafisr and he clearly contradict himself

ذكر من قال ذلك:

حدثنا عبد الله بن أحمد المروزي، قال: ثنا عليّ بن الحسين، قال: ثنا أبي، عن يزيد، عن عكرِمة، عن ابن عباس { الر، وحم، ون } حروف الرحمن مقطعة.[5]
Translate into: we were told by Abdullah bin Ahmed Al-Maruzi said: we were told by Ali bin Hussain, he said: we were told By my father, From zaid From Ibn Abbas{al,rahm,wn} the litters of the merciful one seperated
@8:19 the masked arab criticize the translators of Qtasir website when they don’t cite the full translation of Ibn Kathir and he says “like maybe they trying to hide something from you” this is very ironic, I ask now, why did you hide the rest of the tafsir that you cited when it clearly contradict you?
@8:20 of his video he cite the English translation of Tanwir al-miqbas claiming that it translate it accurately, but honestly I couldn’t believe what he did there either, but I believe his fans didn’t noticed something strange within the English tafsir he cited, the full text of the tafsir is as follows
“And from his narration on the authority of Ibn 'Abbas that he said regarding the interpretation of Allah's saying (Nun): '(Nun) He says: Allah swears by the Nun, which is the whale that carries the earths on its back while in Water, and beneath which is the Bull and under the Bull is the Rock and under the Rock is the Dust and none knows what is under the Dust save Allah. The name of the whale is Liwash, and it is said its name is Lutiaya'; the name of the bull is Bahamut, and some say its name is Talhut or Liyona. The whale is in a sea called 'Adwad, and it is like a small bull in a huge sea. The sea is in a hollowed rock whereby there is 4,000 cracks, and from each crack water springs out to the earth. It is also said that Nun is one of the names of the Lord; it stands for the letter Nun in Allah's name al-Rahman (the Beneficent); and it is also said that a Nun is an inkwell. (By the pen) Allah swore by the pen. This pen is made of light and its height is equal to the distance between Heaven and earth.It is with this pen that the Wise Remembrance, i.e. the Guarded Tablet, was written. It is also said that the pen is one of the angels by whom Allah has sworn, (and that which they write (therewith)) and Allah also swore by what the angels write down of the works of the children of Adam,”[6]

The masked arab yet again claims this translation mentions the whale, but if we read carefully as you can see in the highlighted text with bold and underline, this says that there is other meanings of nun, I didn’t manipulate anything here, you can go directly to the website or click on the masked arab link yourself, I was honestly shocked when I noticed none of his fans pointed out such error, is this how gullible they are? Is this how myopic they are? Couldn’t thy notice this direct contradiction within the source cited by the masked arab?

so as we can see , scholars are not clear about the actual meaning of the letter, and they contradict themselves regarding the meaning


@10:07 he cites tafsir Al-jalalain to accommodate his hypothesis that early muslims believed the earth is flat, not only this is a red herring fallacy and has nothing to do with the topic of whale nun in the quran but let us address it anyways, the problem here is that this Tafsir is very late, right after the discovery of the sun being larger, even al-jalalain himself admit to the discovery of the astronauts, yet he disapprove it, his tafsir is very late, notice how in his video regarding the Quran claiming that the sun sits in a murky water he tries to cite the earliest tafsirs to claim that the verse is literal, which I addressed in my previous articles, however let us see what the earliest scholars of tafsir said about this verse

{ وإلى الأرض كيف سطحت } أي كيف بسطها الله ووسعها ولولا ذلك لما صحَّ الاستقرار عليها والانتفاع بها وهذه من نعم الله سبحانه على عباده[7]
حدثنا بشر، قال: ثنا يزيد، قال: ثنا سعيد، عن قتادة { وَإلى الأرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ }: أي بُسطت، يقول: أليس الذي خلق هذا بقادر على أن يخلق ما أراد في الجنة.[8]

Translate into: {and the earth how it was spreaded out } meaning how it was expanded and made it vast extended, and if he did now do that,  then living in it and benefiting from it will be impossible
Translate into: we were told by bashir he said: zaid told us from Qutada {and the earth how it was spreaded out] meaning extend and he said: can’t the one who created this can create what he want in paradise?
According to Qurtubi

{ وَإِلَى ٱلأَرْضِ كَيْفَ سُطِحَتْ } أي بُسطت ومدّت[9]
Translate into: [and the earth how it was spreaded out] meaning it was spreaded out and extended

So as we can see the overwhelmingly majority of classical scholars agree that the verse is referring to the earth on it’s proto state being spread out, NON of them suggest a flat, earth, why did the masked arab used a very late tafsir that was even written after the discovery of round earth? This is rather a perplexing and quite honestly a dishonest tactic, but his claim that this tafsir in Arabic says Ulama agreed on flat earth is still worth addressing, at no point does al-jalalain claim ijma of scholars he merely point out that there are scholars who claimed a flat earth, interestingly

According to Ibn Hazim in his book al fasil fi al malal wa al ahwa wa al nahil
Under chapter (the evidence for the spherical shape of earth) he state the following:
Abu Muhammad said: and that is when we inshallah in mentioning some of what they objected to and that is that they said that evidence suggest that the earth is spherical, and the majority agree on that
This is ibn hazim who died at 456 hijri
Interestingly enough Ibn Taymia state the following narration:
وسئل رحمه الله : عن رجلين تنازعا في " كيفية السماء والأرض " هل هما " جسمان كريان " ؟ فقال أحدهما كريان ؛ وأنكر الآخر هذه المقالة وقال : ليس لها أصل وردها فما الصواب ؟ فأجاب : " السموات مستديرة عند علماء المسلمين ، وقد حكى إجماع المسلمين على ذلك غير واحد من العلماء أئمة الإسلام : مثل أبي الحسين أحمد بن جعفر بن المنادي أحد الأعيان الكبار من الطبقة الثانية من أصحاب الإمام أحمد وله نحو أربعمائة مصنف ، وحكى الإجماع على ذلك الإمام أبو محمد بن حزم وأبو الفرج بن الجوزي ، وروى العلماء ذلك بالأسانيد المعروفة عن الصحابة والتابعين ، وذكروا ذلك من كتاب الله وسنة رسوله ، وبسطوا القول في ذلك بالدلائل السمعية ، وإن كان قد أقيم على ذلك أيضا دلائل حسابية ، ولا أعلم في علماء المسلمين المعروفين من أنكر ذلك ، إلا فرقة يسيرة من أهل الجدل لما ناظروا المنجمين قالوا على سبيل التجويز : يجوز أن تكون مربعة أو مسدسة أو غير ذلك ، ولم ينفوا أن تكون مستديرة ، لكن جوزوا ضد ذلك ، وما علمت من قال إنها غير مستديرة - وجزم بذلك - إلا من لا يؤبه له من الجهال ...[10]

Translate into: and he asked may Allah have mercy on him about two men were arguing on the shape of the sky and earth, are they spherical? One of them said they are spherical and the other denied it and said: it has no origin so what is the correct one?: he said: the sky is spherical according to all Islamic scholars and it was said that the scholars had general consensus (ijma’) regarding the issue except for one of them: like abi Hussain ahman bin ja’far al munadi one of the old ones from the second level one of the companions of imam ahmad and he has over 400 volume, and the general consensus (ijma’) was told by imam abu Muhammad Ibn hazim and abu alfarag ibn juzi, and the ulama narrated that with authentic sanad from the sahabah and the followers and they argued that from the book of god and the Sunnah of his prophet, and made it simply with empirical evidence, and it was also made accurate with mathematical evidence, and I don’t know any of the will known scholars of islam who denied that except a small minority of the people of rumors when they debated the Astrologers they said that it’s possible: they said it can be rectangle or six sided shaped or anything but that and they didn’t deny that it was sphericalbut they said it’s possible that it’s not and I never knew anyone who said it’s not spherical except those who are ignorant

But this last one is the nail in the coffin for the masked arab
 " وقال الإمام أبو الحسين أحمد بن جعفر بن المنادي من أعيان العلماء المشهورين بمعرفة الآثار والتصانيف الكبار في فنون العلوم الدينية من الطبقة الثانية من أصحاب أحمد : لا خلاف بين العلماء أن السماء على مثال الكرة ......
قال : وكذلك أجمعوا على أن الأرض بجميع حركاتها من البر والبحر مثل الكرة . قال : ويدل عليه أن الشمس والقمر والكواكب لا يوجد طلوعها وغروبها على جميع من في نواحي الأرض في وقت واحد ، بل على المشرق قبل المغرب "[11]

Translate into: and Imam Abu Hussaid Ahmed Ibn Ja’far bin Munadi, from the notable famous scholars by knowing the marks and the categories of old ones in the religious arts from the second level from the companions of Ahmed said: there is no difference between the scholars on the shape of the sphere…..
He said: and they also had general consensus (ijma’ of all scholars)  that earth with all of it’s movements from land to sea are like that of a sphere, he said :and it’s evident that the sun the moon and the stars doesn’t appear on all corners of earth except in one time, but only in sun rise and sunsets


@10:50 for a man who claim to be over 30 years old, this so called ex muslim start yet another conversation with an imaginary character of his on to much all muslims who question him, although I can ignore this point all together and save me some space in this article and some brain cells I will address it anyways @11:05 he state to his imaginary character “can you leave these classy playground insults behind?” this is very ironic as the majority of his video was nothing but classy playground insults
First his imaginary character claims these hadith are not authentic, I have never seen a single apologetic who make such claim regarding these tafsirs @11:24 the masked arab cite a hadith from the prophet however this hadith is yet again contradicted by another hadith from the prophet please read it under issue#2
@1148 the masked arab cites Islam QA as a reply to anyone who claim that there is variations and other meanings regarding nun, however if we read the website in question, the questioner was specifically asking about the whale meaning, so of course it will logically follow that the author of the website will address the meaning of the whale exclusively
This was the question of the questioner in the website:
“I came across a report which says that the earth is placed on the back of a bull, and when the bull moves its head, earthquakes happen. I think that I saw this in Ibn Katheer (2/39 and 1/50). Can you explain this?”[12]

As we can see the question I directly addressing one of the meanings driven directly to the whale(or rather bull here)one, so it will not be logical for the scholar of this website to address the other possible meanings of the word
However I do have found a website that directly address the verse in question and give the general meaning of the verse
وقيل : المراد بقوله : ( ن ) دواة ، والقلم : القلم . قال ابن جرير :

حدثنا عبد الأعلى ، حدثنا ابن ثور ، عن معمر ، عن الحسن ، وقتادة في قوله : ( ن ) قالا هي الدواة .

وقد روي في هذا حديث مرفوع غريب جدا ، فقال ابن أبي حاتم :

حدثنا أبي ، حدثنا هشام بن خالد ، حدثنا الحسن بن يحيى ، حدثنا أبو عبد الله مولى بني أمية ، عن أبي صالح ، عن أبي هريرة قال : سمعت رسول الله - صلى الله عليه وسلم - يقول : " خلق الله النون ، وهي الدواة " .[13]

Translate into: and it was said: and what god said by [nun] is inkwell, and pen: pen ibn jarir said:
We were told by abdulla’la, we were told by ibn thor, from mu’amar, from hassan, from Qutada {nun} they said it’s the inkwell
And it was said that this hadith is marfu’ garib, so ibn abi hatim said:
We were told by my father, we were told by hisham ibn khalid, we were told by al hasan bin yihya, we were told by abudullah master of banu Umayah, from abi Salih from Abi Huraira said: I heard the prophet said: and allah created nun and it’s the inkwell

وقال ابن جرير : حدثنا ابن حميد ، حدثنا يعقوب ، حدثنا أخي عيسى بن عبد الله ، حدثنا ثابت الثمالي ، عن ابن عباس قال : إن الله خلق النون - وهي الدواة
Translate into: and Ibn Jarir said: we were told by Ibn Hamid, we were told by Ya’qub, we were told by my brother Isa bin Abdullah, we were told by thabit Al-timali, from Ibn Abbassaid: Allah Created Nun and it’s the inkwell


@13:33 the masked arab cites a hadith from the prophet where he glorify Ibn abbas, ironically as I showed above Ibn Abbas contradicted himself from claiming the meaning of nun being the whale to an inkwell, we haven’t even touched on the other meanings cited in the tafsirs such as nun being a tablet of light and being one of the names of god however this irrational citation of the hadith by the masked arab seems to suggest that he is claiming that muslims should take the Quran and Tafsir from Ibn Abbas, we actually happen to have a Hadith where the prophet give 4 names where we are supposedly should take out Quran from

“Narrated Masruq:
`Abdullah bin Masud was mentioned before `Abdullah bin `Amr who said, "That is a man I still love, as I heard the Prophet saying 'Learn the recitation of Qur'an from four from `Abdullah bin Mas`ud -- he started with him--Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hudaifa, Mu`adh bin Jabal and Ubai bin Ka`b."”[14]

but the problem here is that as we saw Early Ibn Abbas contradict himself by providing several meanings to Nun

As we can see at no point does the hadith cited by the masked arab claims that we should take the tafsir or the quran from Ibn abbas, we actual have a hadith from the prophet where he suggest 4 people to learn Quran from

We finally leave the imaginary conversation between his imaginary character and him


@14:27 the masked arab cites a tafsir by shaia scholars, although I’m not of shia background I can easily ignore this one but I will address it anyways, this tafsir does somehow suggest another whale narrative, but the masked arab was so dishonest so deceptive he didn’t show the other tafsirs of the Shias that suggest another meaning to nun, this is tafsir Al-Qummi
(بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم ن والقلم وما يسطرون ما انت بنعمة ربك بمجنون) قال فحدثني ابي عن ابن ابي عمير عن عبدالرحمن (عبدالرحيم ط) القصير عن ابي عبدالله عليه السلام قال سألته عن ن والقلم، قال: إن الله خلق القلم من شجرة في الجنة يقال لها الخلد ثم قال لنهر في الجنة كن مدادا فجمد النهر وكان أشد بياضا من الثلج وأحلى من الشهد ثم قال للقلم اكتب قال وما اكتب يا رب قال اكتب ما كان وما هو كأين إلى يوم القيامة، فكتب القلم في رق أشد بياضا من الفضة وأصفى من الياقوت ثم[15]

Translate into: (in the name of god the most beneficent the most merciful, nun by the pen and what they write, You are not, [O Muhammad], by the favor of your Lord, a madman.) said I was told by my father from ibn abi umair  from Abdullah abudllrahman from abi abudllah said: I asked him regarding nun and the pen he said :god created the pen from a tree in heaven named al-kulid then he said to a river in heaven then it was frozen and was whiter than snow and more beautiful and soft then he said to the pen write down, the pen answered what shall I write? He said write down what will happen to the day of judgment then the pen wrote down  on a piece of leather more white than sliver and more pure than Sapphire

As we can so we can see even Shia sources contradict each otherin terms of meaning, this is Tafsir Al-Qummi one of the most will respected Tafsir of the shia
@15:40 the masked arab cites another verse where nun is appeared to be cited, however I myself couldn’t believe this deceptive step, let us be clear this so called wale has different wording in chapter 68:1 it’s worded as following ن
As this simple, just a letter, however at 21:87 the masked arab cites another whale story apparent that it’s has the same whale, but this is a different wording which is prescribed as follows النون
Let us compare them now, the so called first wale ن   vs. the new whale النون   can you spot the difference?
The other problem with this is that this is a fallacious argument, it’s the fallacy of nonsequitur, it doesn’t logically follows that Nun (litter) being a whale evident by Nun (name) in verse 21:87 Notice how the masked arab was so deceptive not to cite the Arabic source, if he does the clear difference in name between the two whales in question will cast doubt to his hypothesis, my question now why didn’t the masked arab showed a screenshot of the Arabic version of this verse?
The masked arab has deceptively left out the other meanings of nun in the tafsiers he cited and quoted out of context, he deceived his gullible fans who have not paid attention to the English tafsir where it clearly give other meanings, he glorified Ibn Abbas but as we saw even Ibn Abbas contradicted himself, he cites a Quranic verse regarding flat earth when this is a red herring fallacy and has nothing to do with out topic, but he cited deceptively tafsir Al-jalalain regarding the flat earth claiming that in the arab version Al-Jalalain claim that scholars had general consensus ijma' when he clearly never made such claim, and he deceptively avoided all classical tafsirs that clearly refuting his hypothesis, he cites a shia tafsir to accommodate his propaganda yet he left out all the other shia tafsirs that contradict his, he cited IslamQA to allegedly preemptively respond to possible muslims criticism when at no point does the website denie the other meanings of the word, he cited Quranic chapter 21:87 were a whale by the name of Nun (in a form of a name not letter) to associate it with the whale of 68:1 claiming that sense this whale is similar in name to nun in 68:1 it's highly possible that nun (the litter) actually means the whale, this is nonsequitror

[5] Ibid
[8] Ibid
[10] Majmu’ Al-Fatawa (6/586)
[11] Majmu’ al-fatawa (25/195)
[14] Sahih al-Bukhari 3808

Offline TruthExposer777

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2017, 07:31:33 PM »
Other Points (Which i received from an Email like weeks ago) by Ibn Adam of (his points are mixed with Bassam Zawadi's points):

Allah subhanahu Ta'ala in the Quran says,

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. [Quran 3:7]

Those who made the video delve into allegorical words i.e., "Nun".

There is not a single Hadees from our Prophet ﷺ (actually there is, as we've seen above) or anything from Quran that attest this. The reports are from sahabah and tabieen. This thing can be found in the tafsir of Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs and in Ibn Kathir also. Ibn Abbas has learned this from Israeli report (Maybe) from ka'b Al Ahbar which contains many weird stuffs.

Shaykh Saleh Al Munajjid of islamqa has explained this here

I hope this helps.

Email #2: Reality of Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs

Tanweer al-Miqbaas min Tafseer Ibn ‘Abbaas was compiled by the Shafi scholar Muhammad ibn Ya‘qoob al-Fayroozaabaadee (d. 1414 CE/817 AH). The Tafsir attributes explanatory statements to the Sahabee Ibn Abbas through the use of chains of narrations. However these chains of narrations are weak and unreliable. It is completely rejected by Muslim Scholars.

In the opening of the translation Tanweer al-Miqbaas min Tafseer Ibn ‘Abbaas it says:

There is no doubt that this commentary is not the work of Ibn 'Abbas. The chain of transmitters of this commentary goes back to Muhammad Ibn Marwan > al-Kalbi > Abu Salih which is described by Hadith experts as the chain of lies (silsilat al-kadhib), for this line of transmission is utterly dubious and unreliable. One does not even need to use the criteria of reliable transmission applied by Hadith experts to decide this commentary's wrong attribution to Ibn 'Abbas. It is easy to detect obvious anomalies in the text of Tanwir al-Miqbas which leave one with no doubt that whoever wrote it lived many centuries after Ibn 'Abbas. [1]

In Usool At-Tafseer by Bilal Philips it is written:
Tafseer Ibn ‘Abbaas, Tanweer al-Miqbaas min Tafseer Ibn ‘Abbaas

This tafseer was compiled by Muhammad ibn Ya‘qoob al-Fayroozaabaadee (d. 1414 CE/817 AH), who was a Shaafi‘ee scholar and author of the famous Arabic dictionary, al-Qaamoos al-Muheet. The vast majority of this tafseer consists of explanatory statements attributed to the great sahaabee and mufassir, Ibn ‘Abbaas. The author mentions the chains of narrators for each section of tafseer. Hence, this tafseer is considered as being among the tafseers birriwaayah. However, chains of narration attributed to Ibn ‘Abbaas vary in their level of authenticity, depending upon the reliability of the narrators themselves. Chains from Mu‘aawiyah ibn Saalih and Qays ibn Muslim al-Koofee are considered saheeh (highly authentic) and those from Ibn Is-haaq (the historian) are considered hasan (authentic); while those from Ismaa‘eel ibn ‘Abdur- Rahmaan as-Suddee al-Kabeer and ‘Abdul Maalik ibn Jurayj are doubtful. Those from ad-Dahhaak ibn Mazaahim al-Hilaalee, ‘Ateeyah al-‘Awfee, Muqaatil ibn Sulaymaan al-Azdee, and Muhammad ibn as-Saa’ib al-Kalabee, who was accused of fabricating hadeeths, are all da‘eef (unacceptable). Nearly all of the so-called “Tafseer of Ibn ‘Abbaas” is based on statements narrated in chains containing Muhammad ibn as-Saa’ib al-Kalabee. Hence, this tafseer is considered unreliable for the most part; and, despite its popularity among the masses, it is totally rejected by Muslim scholars. [2]

In a fatwa by Islamweb it says:

"Some scholars have contested attributing the Tafseer in question to the well-known linguist Al-Fayrooz Abaadi, the author of Al-Qaamoos (a famous Arabic language dictionary). It was mentioned that a copy of it was found before Al-Fayrooz Abaadi.

Moreover, it is not correct to attribute all what is mentioned in that book to Ibn ‘Abbaas  for all what is reported from Ibn ‘Abbaas in that book is mainly reported from Muhammad ibn Marwaan As-Suddi As-Sagheer from Muhammad ibn As-Saa'ib Al-Kalbi from Abi Saalih from Ibn ‘Abbaas . Such Isnaad (i.e. chain of narrators) is one of the weakest chains of narrators from Ibn ‘Abbaas to the extent that As-Suyooti  described that chain of narrators as "the chain of telling lies."

Muhammad Husayn Ath-Thahabi  has talked about that book. Amongst his words about it: "It is sufficient for us commenting on that is what was reported from the route of Ibn ‘Abd Al-Hakam who said, 'I have heard Ash-Shaafi‘i say, 'Nothing was authentically reported from Ibn ‘Abbaas regarding Tafseer except about one hundred Ahaadeeth.' This narration, if Ash-Shaafi‘i really said it, indicates the extent of how daring the fabricators were to invent such a huge amount of Tafseer that was attributed to Ibn ‘Abbaas. Nothing can prove that better than the apparent contradictions between narrations in that Tafseer attributed to Ibn ‘Abbaas and reported from him."  [3]

So the so called "Tafsir Ibn Abbas" is not authentically reported from the Sahabee Ibn Abbas and is not an authentic Tafsir.

Appendix 1: Introduction Of Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas' Translation

[1] Guezzou, Mokrane 2007. Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas. Royal Aal al-Bayt Institute. Amman, Jordan. Page v.
[2] Usool At-Tafseer, Bilal Philips, Page 39. See Mabaahith fee 'Uloom al-Qur'an, pp.360-362 and at-Tafseer wa al-Mufassiroon, pp.81-83.
[3] Islamweb Fatwa :

Email #3: Refuting authenticity of whale Hadith
First of all, none of these narrations were uttered by the Prophet (peace be upon him) or found in the Qur'an and that means that they are not binding upon us.
Secondly, we know where these narrations came from. They came from the Israeiliyat ( as Ibn Kathir stated in Al Bidaaya wal Nihaayaa¸ Volume 1, page 15.

Thirdly, all of these narrations are either weak or fabricated. Please refer to the following sources and see what the scholars have said regarding the weakness and fabrication of these narrations:
Sheikh Albani, Silseelatil Al Ahaadeeth Al Da'eefa, Hadith no. 1253 & 6309
Al Dhahabi, Siyar A`laam-in-Nubulaa', Volume 4, page 61 & Volume 10, page 669
Ibn Rajab, Rasaail Ibn Rajab, Volume 3, page 138
Ibn 'Idi, Tahzheeb Al Tahzheeb, Volume 9, page 506
Ibn Hajar, Lisaan Al Meezaan, Volume 7, Hadith no. 572
Ibn Al Qaysaraani, Zhakeeratul Hufaaz, Volume 2, Hadith no. 1024
How can we rely on such narrations?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2017, 08:58:43 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother TruthEXposer,

I never received these posts in my inbox, akhi.  My guess is they're too big for an email and they would belong to public posts like you just did.  Jazaka Allah Khayr for the findings and the hard work, akhi.  I will update the article with your additions soon insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2017, 09:15:04 PM »
Jazakullah khair all...

Here I come to know that really everybody has his own style of refutation... may Allah accept it from us...

How I would go to refute after watching the video, is simply that though the scholars are honorable, their works are highly respected, but they are not divine and perfect as Allah and Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.w.

There is no single authentic hadees anywhere at all......

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2017, 09:19:53 PM »
Islamqa is also saying that there is no proof...Just see how desperate are these people to accuse Allah, His Prophet and His book, that they even take quotations from the magazines....

the balloons of their falsehoods just need a single [censored] of auththenticity...

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Nun Whale new article
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2017, 11:52:03 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Zoraise and sister Tazeen and all readers,

I have updated the article with your additions:

Jazakuma Allah Khayr.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


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