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MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: FARHAN_UDDIN on June 28, 2013, 03:48:50 PM
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ASSALAMUALYKUM.
Brothers, some christens like to claim that, that a complete Surah as big as Chapter 9 is missing from the Quran according to Sahih Muslim (No. 2286) and they claim that if Quran is ALLAH'S Book then how can a goat eat the verses which Aisha hid under her bed? They also say that Quran is corrupted according to the historical manuscripts of Sana and Uthmanic manuscripts.
Can anyone please help me with this? How can we response to such claims strongly? Someone please help me.
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AsalmuAlaikum,
For anythimg to do with Quran visit : www.islamic-awareness.org/quran
It covers a large amount of critisms.
For preservation of quran. Source: www.quranproject.org
Preservation and Literary Challenge of the Qur’ān
Memorization
‘In the ancient times, when writing was scarcely used, memory and oral transmission was exercised and strengthened to a degree now almost unknown.’[1886] relates Michael Zwettler. It was in to this 'oral' society that Prophet Muhammad was born. During its revelation, which spanned twenty three years, not only did the Prophet teach the Qur’ān, he memorized it entirely himself as did many of his Companions amongst them; Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Ibn Masud, Abu Hurairah, Abdullah bin Abbas, Abdullah bin Amr bin al-As, Aisha, Hafsa, and Umm Salama. The Angel Gabriel would spend every night in the month of Ramadhan with the Prophet, on a yearly basis, to refresh his Qur’ānic memory.
The lives of Muslims revolved solely around the Qur’ān; they would memorize it, teach it, recite portions from it every day for their obligatory Prayers – and many would stand a third of the night in prayer reciting from it. There existed so many memorizers of the Qur’ān, that it was considered strange to find a family without someone amongst them who had not memorized the Qur’ān entirely.
As time progressed, literally thousands of schools were opened devoted specifically to the teaching of the Qur’ān to children for the purpose of memorization. The teachers in these schools would have unbroken Tazkiya’s [authoritative chains of learning] going back to the Prophet himself through his many Companions – and this system exists even today.
Indeed, we live in a world where there are millions of memorizers of the Qur’ān, scattered in every city and country spanning the whole globe. These memorizers range from ages 6 and up; males, females, Arabs, non-Arabs, blacks, whites, Orientals, rich and poor.
There does not exist a single book, secular or religious, which has as many memorizers of it, as the Qur’ān. In reality, if one considers the ‘greatest’ writings of the world; Old and New Testament, Aristotle, Plato, Shakespeare, Orwell, Marx, Dickens, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu etc.– one may ask, how many people have memorized them? Seldom do we find a single individual.
Hypothetically, if we were loose all the books of the world, by throwing them into the sea for instance, the only book we could resurrect entirely word-for-word would be the Qur’ān – and, amazingly, it could be done simultaneously in every country of the world within twenty-four hours.
Kenneth Cragg writes, “This phenomenon of Qur’ānic recital means that the text has traversed the centuries in an unbroken living sequence of devotion. It cannot, therefore, be handled as an antiquarian thing, nor as a historical document out of a distant past. The fact of Hifdh (Qur’ānic Memorization) has made the Qur’ān a present possession through all the lapse of Muslim time and given it a human currency in every generation never allowing its relegation to a bare authority for reference alone.”[1887]
Written Text
The entire Qur’ān was in writing at the time of revelation from the Prophet’s dictation by some of his literate companions, the most prominent of them being Zayd ibn Thabit.[1888] Others among his noble scribes were Ubayy ibn Ka’b, Ibn Mas’ud, Mu’awiyah ibn Abu Sufyan, Khalid ibn Waleed and Zubayr ibn Awwam.[1889] The verses were recorded on leather, parchment, scapulae (shoulder bones of animals) and the stalks of date palms.[1890]
The codification of the Qur’ān (i.e. into a ‘single book form’) was done soon after the Battle of Yamamah (11AH/633CE), after the Prophet’s death and during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr. Many companions became martyrs in that battle, and it was feared that unless a written copy of the entire revelation was produced, large parts of the Qur’ān might be lost with the death of those who had memorized it. Therefore, at the suggestion of Umar to collect the Qur’ān in the form of writing, Zayd ibn Thabit was requested by Abu Bakr to head a committee which would gather together the scattered recordings of the Qur’ān and prepare a mushaf - loose sheets which bore the entire revelation on them.[1891] To safeguard the compilation from errors, the committee accepted only material which had been written down in the presence of the Prophet himself, and which could be verified by at least two reliable witnesses who had actually heard the Prophet recite the passage in question[1892]. Once completed and unanimously approved of by the Prophet’s Companions, these sheets were kept with the Caliph Abu Bakr (d. 13AH/634CE), then passed on to the Caliph Umar (13-23AH/634-644CE), and then Umar’s daughter and the Prophet’s widow, Hafsa.[1893]
The third Caliph Uthman (23AH-35AH/644-656CE) requested Hafsa to send him the manuscript of the Qur’ān which was in her safekeeping, and ordered the production of several bounded copies of it (masaahif, sing. mushaf). This task was entrusted to the Companions Zayd ibn Thabit, Abdullah ibn Az-Zubair, Sa’eed ibn As-’As, and Abdur-Rahman ibn Harith ibn Hisham.[1894] Upon completion (in 25AH/646CE), Uthman returned the original manuscript to Hafsa and sent the copies to the major Islāmic provinces.
A number of non-Muslim scholars who have studied the issue of the compilation and preservation of the Qur’ān have also stated its authenticity. John Burton, at the end of his substantial work on the Qur’ān’s compilation, states that the Qur’ān as we have it today is:
“…the text which has come down to us in the form in which it was organized and approved by the Prophet…. What we have today in our hands is the mushaf of Muhammad.”[1895]
Kenneth Cragg describes the transmission of the Qur’ān from the time of revelation to today as occurring in “an unbroken living sequence of devotion.”[1896] Schwally concurs that:
“As far as the various pieces of revelation are concerned, we may be confident that their text has been generally transmitted exactly as it was found in the Prophet’s legacy.” [1897]
The historical credibility of the Qur’ān is further established by the fact that one of the copies sent out by the Caliph Uthman is still in existence today. It lies in the Museum of the City of Tashkent in Uzbekistan, Central Asia.[1898] According to Memory of the World Program, UNESCO, an arm of the United Nations, ‘it is the definitive version, known as the Mushaf of Uthman.”[1899]
This manuscript, held by the Muslim Board of Uzbekistan, is the earliest existent written version of the Qur’ān. It is the definitive version, known as the Mushaf of Uthman.[1900]
A facsimile of the mushaf in Tashkent is available at the Columbia University Library in the United States of America and the Topkapi Museum, Turkey.
A copy of the mushaf sent to Syria (duplicated before a fire in 1310AH/1892CE destroyed the Jaami’ Masjid where it was housed) also exists in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul,[1901] and an early manuscript on gazelle parchment exists in Dar al-Kutub as-Sultaniyyah in Egypt.
This manuscript held at the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul can be dated back to the late 1st century Hijri.
This Qur’ānic manuscript is housed at the al-Hussein mosque in Cairo and is amongst the oldest of all the manuscripts, and is either Uthmanic or an exact copy from the original.
More ancient manuscripts from all periods of Islāmic history, found in the Library of Congress in Washington, the Chester Beatty Museum in Dublin (Ireland) and the London Museum, have been compared with those in Tashkent, Turkey and Egypt, with results confirming that there have not been any changes in the text from its original time of writing and is proof that the text of the Qur’ān we have in circulation today is identical with that of the time of the Prophet and his companions.
The Institute for Koranforschung, for example, in the University of Munich (Germany), collected over 42,000 complete or incomplete ancient copies of the Qur’ān. After around fifty years of research, they reported that there was no variance between the various copies, except the occasional mistakes of the copyist which could easily be ascertained. This Institute was unfortunately destroyed by bombs during WWII.[1902]
Thus, due to the efforts of the early companions, with God’s assistance, the Qur’ān as we have it today is recited in the same manner as it was revealed. This makes it the only religious scripture that is still completely retained and understood in its original language. Indeed, as Sir William Muir states, “There is probably no other book in the world which has remained twelve centuries (now fourteen) with so pure a text.”[1903]
The evidence above confirms God’s promise in the Qur’ān:
“Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’ān and indeed, We will be its guardian.”
Qur’ān 15:9
The Qur’ān has been preserved in both oral and written form in a way no other book has, with each form providing a check and balance for the authenticity of the other.[1904]
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I found answeer to your question but im on my phobe will tellvyou tomorrow. Its really simple. Regarding that hadith
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Thanks Brother Osama for your answer. And I'm really sorry for using such childish titles. Please forgive me. And brother please don't get annoyed with my Questions. I just want to strengthen my base in Islam.
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Farhan,
No worries dear brother. Ask all of the questions that you have concerns with, freely akhi. I never had an issue with your questions. It was only the title dear brother.
I have just updated my response above. I added a new section called:
"Would not the drawn attention have caused for the "verses" to be memorized and documented?" [1 (http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047)]
This should further demonstrate that there are injected lies and conspiracies in our Hadiths collections. Now, this doesn't mean that we reject the Hadiths by the wholesale. No. I am not a Qurani. But my post above clearly demonstrates that there are conspiracies from within against Islam.
I hope this helps, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,
Please visit my updated post above at: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047.
Noble Verses 17:47 and 25:8 declare that those who say that the Prophet of Islam got bewitched are WICKED! Yet, we have Sahih Hadiths that say the Prophet got bewitched.
I openly challenge any MUSLIM or NON-MUSLIM to refute this! And I call upon all Muslims to DECLARE WAR on our Hadiths literature, and to filter them from all of the poisons that exist in them! Visit the link that I gave to understand why. Why are we tolerating this garbage in our Hadiths?? Why are we tolerating the religious thugs for bullying us, and intimidating us with the threats of calling us "KAFIRS" if we reject such garbage hadiths?
Thanks to brother Farhan Uddin for causing me to write the post that I linked above, because I will take it upon myself to compile as many rubbish hadiths that clearly clash with the Holy Quran as possible, and prove to the Muslims and non-Muslims that our Hadiths collections must get filtered, and we must throw those that disagree with the Holy Quran, and keep those that agree with the Holy Quran, insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Assalamualykum.
Brother, I heard there are some Sahih Hadith manuscripts at some museums or libraries. So, 1)how come these hadiths got inserted?
2) And when these hadiths got inserted, why didn't anyone oppose them?
3)Didn't they match them with the original manuscripts? or the problem is with the original manuscripts?
4) Brother Osama, you said these are some internal conspiracies. Okay my Question is, Why Muslims would conspire against themselves by inserting some false hadiths?
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I just want to make a comment to Osama . Simply saying that Bukhari and Muslim have conspiracies in their books means nothing ! Sure , there are around 20 weak (unauthorized) sayings in those two books which scholars have made clear through the science of Hadith . So what of it ?! Did anyone say they were angels and never make mistakes ?
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I just want to make a comment to Osama . Simply saying that Bukhari and Muslim have conspiracies in their books means nothing ! Sure , there are around 20 weak (unauthorized) sayings in those two books which scholars have made clear through the science of Hadith . So what of it ?! Did anyone say they were angels and never make mistakes ?
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother "Black Muslim",
Thank you for the information, dear brother, but I don't think it's just limited to just 20 Hadiths, nor does this mean that we have to now reject Bukhari and Muslim. I am simply casting a lot of doubt on several of the even strong stories. I gave examples above. I believe something fishy happened in the collections of the Hadiths. And they're not as sound and had been thoroughly investigated and authenticated as some Muslims claim today. There seem to be hadiths that were put there to attack or degrade the Prophet. Like the bewitchment hadiths. I believe they're lies as I explained above.
I am going to write an article about this, soon, insha'Allah.
Take care akhi,
Osama Abdallah
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Brother Osama, you're alive! :P
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Assalamualykum.
Brother Osama, how are you? May be it's my last conversation with you for this month. Because I'm going out somewhere next week.
Brother one question,
Why Muslims conspired against themselves?
And when these hadiths were inserted why didn't anyone oppose?
And, aren't the present copies of Sahih Hadiths same as the original manuscripts? or there's a problem with the original copies? If there is then didn't the hadith writers like Bukhari realize that these hadiths are fabricated?
May Allah shower His unending blessings upon you, your family and the entire Muslim Ummah.
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Assalamualykum.
Brother Osama, how are you? May it's my last conversation with you for this month. Because I'm going out somewhere next week.
Brother one question,
Why Muslims conspired against themselves?
And when these hadiths were inserted why didn't anyone oppose?
And, aren't the present copies of Sahih Hadiths same as the original manuscripts? or there's a problem with the original copies? If there is then didn't the hadith writers like Bukhari realize that these hadiths are fabricated?
May Allah shower His unending blessings upon you, your family and the entire Muslim Ummah.
It could have easily been non-muslims who wanted to degrade Muhammad and actually deluded people into thinking Muhammad did that.
For example:
Book 007, Hadith Number 2380. (Abu dawud)
►Narated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : The Prophet (pbuh) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
^Are you kidding me! Clearly the fabricator wanted to make the prophet look bad! Even if he did that, why talk about it??
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Assalamualykum.
Brother, Thanks but why didn't the Early Muslims delete those hadiths. And, I heard there are some a manuscript of Sahih Bukhari. So, the problem is in the original manuscript or the present copies? And if the problem is with the original manuscripts then why couldn't Bukhari realize it?
I smell something fishy in the collection of Hadiths. Maybe some histories of the collection are missing. Yes I firmly believe there are many authentic hadiths, but there's something wrong in the collection. We have to identify it as soon as possible by going through the history of Hadith collection again thoroughly and precisely.
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Brother Osama, you're alive! :P
As'salamu Alaikum my Beloveds,
I am very sorry for taking a long time out of the board. I've been busy focusing and concentrating on my big projects, which I've mentioned a long time ago on this board and on the website. Even the website's updates I haven't been keeping up with them. I am planning on finishing a lot of things by the end of this year, insha'Allah :). Please forgive me for neglecting you. I hope you're all well and happy and your faiths are stronger than ever, insha'Allah. The same for your familes, insha'Allah :).
Brother, Thanks but why didn't the Early Muslims delete those hadiths. And, I heard there are some a manuscript of Sahih Bukhari. So, the problem is in the original manuscript or the present copies? And if the problem is with the original manuscripts then why couldn't Bukhari realize it?
I believe because of lack of technology and also lack of knowledge about these Hadiths, dear brother. Muslims till this very day of ours still don't read much of the Hadiths. They sort of learn them by the word of mouth from others. Only the specialized Scholars know the Hadiths in details. I personally came to know about much of the Hadiths from the anti-Islamics. This was before I decided to study many of them myself and build a Hadiths search engine on the website.
Now the problem that many of the Hadiths scholars have is that their hands are tied down. Intimidation and bullying, and ultimately being fired from the committee is what they fear. They have to be hypocrites. It'll take laymen like us, who later become real Scholars, to pull this project through. This is my opinion.
It could have easily been non-muslims who wanted to degrade Muhammad and actually deluded people into thinking Muhammad did that.
For example:
Book 007, Hadith Number 2380. (Abu dawud)
►Narated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : The Prophet (pbuh) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
^Are you kidding me! Clearly the fabricator wanted to make the prophet look bad! Even if he did that, why talk about it??
I agree with you, dear brother. The Holy Quran is BIG on chastity and being protective of chastity. Women are even forbidden to knock their heels against the ground to make sounds, in the Holy Quran. This is due to protecting their chastity and not have them be misunderstood to being flirty or inviting men to sin with them:
[024:031] And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards God, that ye may attain Bliss.
Yet, we have Hadiths from Aisha about very personal times and matters between her and the Prophet?? What business does anyone have to know about personal things that took place between the Prophet and his wives??
There are far more serious problems than just this! There are narrations about Aisha allowing men to suck her sisters' breasts so they would become foster children to them so that it would then be ok for Aisha to be alone with these men to meet them and speak with them??? There are problems with this:
1- This whole lie about allowing adults to suck from women doesn't exist in the Holy Quran. Not even kids older than 2 years old are allowed to suck from their very own MOTHERS! Let alone grown up stranger men doing it.
2- I thought Aisha WAS ALREADY a mother to all Believers because of her marriage to the Prophet! So why would she need to resort to such methods???
There is clear conspiracy in the hadiths! And we have to be courageous enough to take on the bullies and to expose these false lies! The burden lies upon us. It won't come from Saudi Arabia or Egypt's Al-Azhar.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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It still means nothing . Having doubts doesn't prove them by default
http://articles.islamweb.net/media/index.php?page=article&lang=A&id=64510
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Assalamualykum.
Brother Osama, how are you? May it's my last conversation with you for this month. Because I'm going out somewhere next week.
Brother one question,
Why Muslims conspired against themselves?
And when these hadiths were inserted why didn't anyone oppose?
And, aren't the present copies of Sahih Hadiths same as the original manuscripts? or there's a problem with the original copies? If there is then didn't the hadith writers like Bukhari realize that these hadiths are fabricated?
May Allah shower His unending blessings upon you, your family and the entire Muslim Ummah.
It could have easily been non-muslims who wanted to degrade Muhammad and actually deluded people into thinking Muhammad did that.
For example:
Book 007, Hadith Number 2380. (Abu dawud)
►Narated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : The Prophet (pbuh) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
^Are you kidding me! Clearly the fabricator wanted to make the prophet look bad! Even if he did that, why talk about it??
AsalamuAlaikum,
That Hadith you posted is a daif (Weak) Hadith. Shaikh Al-Albani graded it daif.
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (SAW) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عِيسَى، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ دِينَارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعْدُ بْنُ أَوْسٍ الْعَبْدِيُّ، عَنْ مِصْدَعٍ أَبِي يَحْيَى، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم كَانَ يُقَبِّلُهَا وَهُوَ صَائِمٌ وَيَمُصُّ لِسَانَهَا .
Grade : Da'if (Al-Albani) ضعيف (الألباني) حكم :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2386
In-book reference : Book 14, Hadith 74
English translation : Book 13, Hadith 2380
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/abudawud/14/74
There are authentic Hadith that do mention Kissing but no 'sucking':
Narrated Hisham's father:
Aisha said, "Allah's Messenger (SAW) used to kiss some of his wives while he was fasting," and then she smiled.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي أَبِي، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ح وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ إِنْ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَيُقَبِّلُ بَعْضَ أَزْوَاجِهِ وَهُوَ صَائِمٌ. ثُمَّ ضَحِكَتْ.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1928
In-book reference : Book 30, Hadith 36
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 31, Hadith 150
(deprecated)
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/30/36
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) used to kiss her during the month of fasting.
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، وَقُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ قَالَ يَحْيَى أَخْبَرَنَا وَقَالَ الآخَرَانِ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الأَحْوَصِ، عَنْ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِلاَقَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ مَيْمُونٍ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، - رضى الله عنها - قَالَتْ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يُقَبِّلُ فِي شَهْرِ الصَّوْمِ .
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1106 k
In-book reference : Book 13, Hadith 89
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 6, Hadith 2445
(deprecated)
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/13/89
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Assalamualykum.
Brother Osama, how are you? May it's my last conversation with you for this month. Because I'm going out somewhere next week.
Brother one question,
Why Muslims conspired against themselves?
And when these hadiths were inserted why didn't anyone oppose?
And, aren't the present copies of Sahih Hadiths same as the original manuscripts? or there's a problem with the original copies? If there is then didn't the hadith writers like Bukhari realize that these hadiths are fabricated?
May Allah shower His unending blessings upon you, your family and the entire Muslim Ummah.
It could have easily been non-muslims who wanted to degrade Muhammad and actually deluded people into thinking Muhammad did that.
For example:
Book 007, Hadith Number 2380. (Abu dawud)
►Narated By 'Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin : The Prophet (pbuh) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
^Are you kidding me! Clearly the fabricator wanted to make the prophet look bad! Even if he did that, why talk about it??
AsalamuAlaikum,
That Hadith you posted is a daif (Weak) Hadith. Shaikh Al-Albani graded it daif.
Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin:
The Prophet (SAW) used to kiss her and suck her tongue when he was fasting.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ عِيسَى، حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ دِينَارٍ، حَدَّثَنَا سَعْدُ بْنُ أَوْسٍ الْعَبْدِيُّ، عَنْ مِصْدَعٍ أَبِي يَحْيَى، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ النَّبِيَّ صلى الله عليه وسلم كَانَ يُقَبِّلُهَا وَهُوَ صَائِمٌ وَيَمُصُّ لِسَانَهَا .
Grade : Da'if (Al-Albani) ضعيف (الألباني) حكم :
Reference : Sunan Abi Dawud 2386
In-book reference : Book 14, Hadith 74
English translation : Book 13, Hadith 2380
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/abudawud/14/74
There are authentic Hadith that do mention Kissing but no 'sucking':
Narrated Hisham's father:
Aisha said, "Allah's Messenger (SAW) used to kiss some of his wives while he was fasting," and then she smiled.
حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدُ بْنُ الْمُثَنَّى، حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي أَبِي، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، عَنِ النَّبِيِّ صلى الله عليه وسلم ح وَحَدَّثَنَا عَبْدُ اللَّهِ بْنُ مَسْلَمَةَ، عَنْ مَالِكٍ، عَنْ هِشَامٍ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ ـ رضى الله عنها ـ قَالَتْ إِنْ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم لَيُقَبِّلُ بَعْضَ أَزْوَاجِهِ وَهُوَ صَائِمٌ. ثُمَّ ضَحِكَتْ.
Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1928
In-book reference : Book 30, Hadith 36
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 3, Book 31, Hadith 150
(deprecated)
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/30/36
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that the Messenger of Allah (SAW) used to kiss her during the month of fasting.
حَدَّثَنَا يَحْيَى بْنُ يَحْيَى، وَقُتَيْبَةُ بْنُ سَعِيدٍ، وَأَبُو بَكْرِ بْنُ أَبِي شَيْبَةَ قَالَ يَحْيَى أَخْبَرَنَا وَقَالَ الآخَرَانِ، حَدَّثَنَا أَبُو الأَحْوَصِ، عَنْ زِيَادِ بْنِ عِلاَقَةَ، عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ مَيْمُونٍ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، - رضى الله عنها - قَالَتْ كَانَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يُقَبِّلُ فِي شَهْرِ الصَّوْمِ .
Reference : Sahih Muslim 1106 k
In-book reference : Book 13, Hadith 89
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 6, Hadith 2445
(deprecated)
Read here: http://www.sunnah.com/muslim/13/89
Yes, brother I am aware! But my point is that there were people who fabricated/overexaggerated hadiths and made them make the prophet look bad. Hadiths had no divine promise of being preserved. And what is amazing is that the Quran does not have the nonsense in many non-authentic and sometimes hadiths we call authentic. That should tell you a lot about the authors of the 2 books.
You have many people who don't respect our beloved prophet because of those hadiths.
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Brother Osama, you're alive! :P
As'salamu Alaikum my Beloveds,
I am very sorry for taking a long time out of the board. I've been busy focusing and concentrating on my big projects, which I've mentioned a long time ago on this board and on the website. Even the website's updates I haven't been keeping up with them. I am planning on finishing a lot of things by the end of this year, insha'Allah :). Please forgive me for neglecting you. I hope you're all well and happy and your faiths are stronger than ever, insha'Allah. The same for your familes, insha'Allah :).
Brother, Thanks but why didn't the Early Muslims delete those hadiths. And, I heard there are some a manuscript of Sahih Bukhari. So, the problem is in the original manuscript or the present copies? And if the problem is with the original manuscripts then why couldn't Bukhari realize it?
I believe because of lack of technology and also lack of knowledge about these Hadiths, dear brother. Muslims till this very day of ours still don't read much of the Hadiths. They sort of learn them by the word of mouth from others. Only the specialized Scholars know the Hadiths in de
1. There were some injunctions from Allah Almighty which were cancelled {mansukh} and they are not a part of the quran. It is not wise to say that these are not sound ahadith. You should thoroughly read the matter. The verses which the goat ate are also cancelled(see Muta MALIK). So the are not a part of the quran, just as the Hadith qudsi is the word of allah but not a part of the quran.
2. "Umar said that were it not that people will say that umar changed the quran , i would have inserted a verse on rajam in the quran so that people would not say that we do not find the verse of rajm in the quran. The prophet did rajm .'( muta malik). Umar is not saying that there was a verse in the quran actually, but it was in the tradition. Just as the quran is obligatory for us to follow , so is the sunnah. (a ) the prophet said "one among you is in the pride that nothing other than the things that are haram in the quran is haram? By Allah, whatever i say to you and whatever i permit and prohibit to you , that is also like the quran or more than it. "(al jehad fil isjam, p. 196). (b) allah says in the quran" take whatever the prophet gives you and refrain from whatever he withholds you from." (c) allah also says' obey Allah, obey the messenger of allah and those of in authority. Then he there is discord among you, turn the matter to allah and his messenger." (d) the Prophet says that gabriel brings not only the quran to me but also the sunnah(darimi)." (e) the prophet said " i have been given the quran and a thing similar to it( meaning the ahadith)(musnad ahmad 4/131). (f) at many places in the quran allah says that " we have bestowed the prophet with quran and hikmah" the tafsir or hikmah is hadith. (f) with respect to the verse 3:110, the prophet says "in it good refers to quran and hadith obedience. " ( ibn kathir ).
3. Regarding bewitchment: (a) the prophet said' one who is not worthy of tafsir ; if he does correct tafsir, still he has done wrong. ' (b) the prophet also said that " one who searches the meaning with his mind of the quran , he should find his place in the hell. " this does not mean mind is not to be used but it means that it is to be used after quran, ahadith, consensus of the companions and the successors have been refereed to understand the verse. Thereafter the mind is to be applied. This is also proved in another hadith where maz bin jabal was sent by the prophet to yemen and he said i will rule by the quran , the hadith and if i dont get answer from there i will use my mind. The prophet had affirmed this. (b) in the verses where prophet is alleged to be bewitched by the jews, the background is that when the prophet used to recite the quran to them, they used to reject it saying he is possessed or bewitched. Thereupon Allah falsified their claim that the prophet is not saying out of possession or bewitchment but it is a revelation sent down to him(quran). " he does not say any thing of his desire but it is an inspiration sent down to him (perhaps surah yusuf). Allah never refuted the truth of bewitchment but He refuted only the non-muslims claims that the prophet was saying the quran out of possession. In fact the truth of bewitchment is hinted at in the surah falaq (4:113). And in many ahadith . And we witness magic in our everyday life.
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To simply answer your question , it's abrogation . And if a Christian dares and object then ask him about abrogation of the entire old testament by Paul .
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Assalamualykum, I don't understand what the point behind defending the goat Hadith is. The Hadith makes no sense what's so ever. I'm all for defending the ahadith but when a Hadith doesn't make sense than whats the point of defending it. The goat Hadith makes no sense because are u telling me that the only copy of the ayat was on a piece of paper and the rest of the companions didn't bother to memorize it. I would like to clarify my views on ahadith. I believe all ahadith with strong chains unless
1. The Hadith contradicts the Quran
2. The Hadith contradicts established scientific facts, not theories but facts.
3. The Hadith goes against the Sunnah
4. The Hadith makes absolutely no sense (not hadiths I don't like but hadiths that sound next to impossible)
Also I don't reject the Hadith until all attempts at reconciliation between the Quran, Sunnah, and Science.
Also I think it is completely foolish and childish to reject all the ahadith all together. To claim that Bukhari, Muslim , etc ( May Allah's blessings be upon them) forged all of those ahadith which the Muslim consensus at the time and now considered the most authentic collections is one of the most irrational things I have ever heard in my life.
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Assalamualykum, I don't understand what the point behind defending the goat Hadith is. The Hadith makes no sense what's so ever. I'm all for defending the ahadith but when a Hadith doesn't make sense than whats the point of defending it. The goat Hadith makes no sense because are u telling me that the only copy of the ayat was on a piece of paper and the rest of the companions didn't bother to memorize it.
Actually , you're mistaken here . The FIRST way of keeping Quran was memorizing it .The companions - Allah be pleased of them - did memorize Quran . And that's how they decided to gather it so there is no danger of it being lost . There is absolutely no problem in that . Allah was the one to guide them into doing this . As for this hadith , it is unauthorized and so it cannot be taken . And let's assume that it is , what's the problem ? If a goat ate a piece of paper that had verses in them so what ? Does it mean nobody memorized them ?
I believe all ahadith with strong chains unless
1. The Hadith contradicts the Quran
2. The Hadith contradicts established scientific facts, not theories but facts.
3. The Hadith goes against the Sunnah
4. The Hadith makes absolutely no sense (not hadiths I don't like but hadiths that sound next to impossible)
Here is an information , I never heard of any Hadith that contradicts Quran or logic without a possibility to explain it except weak Hadith . Yes , it is in the science of Hadith that if there is no way to explain it logically then it is not taken . But before that , no authorized one does .
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assalamualykum
Assalamualykum, I don't understand what the point behind defending the goat Hadith is. The Hadith makes no sense what's so ever. I'm all for defending the ahadith but when a Hadith doesn't make sense than whats the point of defending it. The goat Hadith makes no sense because are u telling me that the only copy of the ayat was on a piece of paper and the rest of the companions didn't bother to memorize it.
Actually , you're mistaken here . The FIRST way of keeping Quran was memorizing it .The companions - Allah be pleased of them - did memorize Quran . And that's how they decided to gather it so there is no danger of it being lost . There is absolutely no problem in that . Allah was the one to guide them into doing this . As for this hadith , it is unauthorized and so it cannot be taken . And let's assume that it is , what's the problem ? If a goat ate a piece of paper that had verses in them so what ? Does it mean nobody memorized them ?
Bro thats my point how can that hadith be true if it says that we lost two verses from the Glorious Qur'an because a goat ate a piece of paper with the ayat on them. Surely all of the hufath memorized every single ayah of the Qur'an.
Here is an information , I never heard of any Hadith that contradicts Quran or logic without a possibility to explain it except weak Hadith . Yes , it is in the science of Hadith that if there is no way to explain it logically then it is not taken . But before that , no authorized one does .
Thank you for the information, I wrote that just incase i ever came across ahadith that contradicted the Qur'an.
I would also like to add another point, I don't believe any hadith that says ayat were removed from the Qur'an
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I would also like to add another point, I don't believe any hadith that says ayat were removed from the Qur'an
So you don't believe in abrogation ?
87:6 We will make you recite, [O Muhammad], and you will not forget, 87:7 Except what Allah should will. Indeed, He knows what is declared and what is hidden.
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There are scores of cancelled verses in the quran.
a hadith with a sound chain and if it is ghareeb[with only one chain] can be rejected if ...1. it is against the quran2.against a famous sunah.3. against consensus of the companions and successors .4. against 5. against other sound ahadith. ][hadith and understanding of hadith by abdulah marufi]. but this is the job of muhadisun, not laymen likee u.s. if a hadith..with a sound chain ....is shaz, it iS NOT A PROOF . SEE TIRMIZI . IF A HADITH IS MALUL, DESPITE A SOUND CHAIN .. YOU CANNOT FOLLOW IT. BUT REMEMBER DO NOT REJECT OUTRIGHT ANY HADITH WHICH YOU THINK IS WRONG. CAN I GET EXAMPLES OF HADITH CONTRADICTING SCIENCE.... I LL EXPOUND ON THIS TOPIC BUT LATER. BY REJECTING HADITH WE ACTUALLY REJECT THE QURAN.
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=MN10qU4dP2A
No rejecting some Hadith does not equate to rejecting the Quran. That is nonsense.
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=c4-feed-u&v=MN10qU4dP2A
No rejecting some Hadith does not equate to rejecting the Quran. That is nonsense.
by saying HADITH. I mean HADITH s other than those I have excepted.
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers and sisters,
Please visit: http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1166.msg4047.html#msg4047
And again, this is why what agrees with the Holy Quran from both the Hadiths and also the Bible and other Scriptures we accept as closest to the Truth, but not absolute Truth like the Holy Quran, and what disagrees with the Holy Quran we reject.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah