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MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: Idris on June 20, 2015, 09:45:16 PM
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Update from Osama Abdallah:
Fearing that brother Idris' invaluable images throughout this thread would eventually get deleted from the websites that he linked them from, I went ahead and backed up this entire thread to the following link:
www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898.htm
May Allah Almighty bless brother Idris for his invaluable research and work. Ameen.
End of Update.
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Ramadan mubarak to all muslims, best wishes :)
Salamun Aleykum
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Salam Aleykom,
OK, and now seriously: there is no single person who can help to read the text in Armenian language? I mean of course those two Armenian edition of the Bible? I don't get it...do you even realize that we have a unique chance to show the name Ahmad explicitely written in christian Bible to this day? No muslim scholar was able to prove it from such sources! I know the number page where is located the passage of Isaiah 42:10 in those Armenian Bibles (which I linked above in my post). In the edition from the year 1733 it can be found in the page 751 (right side of the page) and in the edition from the year 1666 it can be found in the page 861. All I need is to get a confimation that the text read as: "Sing to the Lord a new song, the mark of his authority is in his back, and his name is Ahmad" !!! It can be download as PDF and one must to take a photoshot of that text fragment (in Adobe Reader) and then published. So please ask your friends to help us! URGENT MATTER!
Make a separate thread here and ask if anyone speaks Armenian:
http://www.islamicboard.com/
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Or just ask if there is anyone who lives in Turkey.
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Salam Aleykom,
OK, and now seriously: there is no single person who can help to read the text in Armenian language? I mean of course those two Armenian edition of the Bible? I don't get it...do you even realize that we have a unique chance to show the name Ahmad explicitely written in christian Bible to this day? No muslim scholar was able to prove it from such sources! I know the number page where is located the passage of Isaiah 42:10 in those Armenian Bibles (which I linked above in my post). In the edition from the year 1733 it can be found in the page 751 (right side of the page) and in the edition from the year 1666 it can be found in the page 861. All I need is to get a confimation that the text read as: "Sing to the Lord a new song, the mark of his authority is in his back, and his name is Ahmad" !!! It can be download as PDF and one must to take a photoshot of that text fragment (in Adobe Reader) and then published. So please ask your friends to help us! URGENT MATTER!
Make a separate thread here and ask if anyone speaks Armenian:
http://www.islamicboard.com/
Thank you Sam663
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Thank you Sam663
I have already made the thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134326287-urgent-help-translating-armenian-text.html
????? (Administrator)
I'll contact some brothers and let you know if they know anyone .
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A very good suggestion.
http://www.irf.net/contactus.html
islam@irf.net
http://www.assimalhakeem.net/ask-a-question/
http://www.institutealislam.com/dr-jamal-badawi/
Your could submit any questions or inquiries at iif@geocities.com or contact Dr. Jamal Badawi personally at Jamal.Badawi@StMarys.ca
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A very good suggestion.
http://www.irf.net/contactus.html
islam@irf.net
http://www.assimalhakeem.net/ask-a-question/
http://www.institutealislam.com/dr-jamal-badawi/
Your could submit any questions or inquiries at iif@geocities.com or contact Dr. Jamal Badawi personally at Jamal.Badawi@StMarys.ca
Thank you brother one more time. I will ask them insha'Allah ! May Allah bless you for your help.
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A very good suggestion.
http://www.irf.net/contactus.html
islam@irf.net
Does IRF respond our questions?
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris to all brothers and sisters,
Keep up the great research and work, dear brother Idris. Your work is amazing! Insha'Allah it will be read by many. I will also link it to the website soon, Insha'Allah, along with other brothers' works as well that are in my que.
May Allah Almighty greatly bless you, akhi. Ameen.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris to all brothers and sisters,
Keep up the great research and work, dear brother Idris. Your work is amazing! Insha'Allah it will be read by many. I will also link it to the website soon, Insha'Allah, along with other brothers' works as well that are in my que.
May Allah Almighty greatly bless you, akhi. Ameen.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Salam Aleykom,
Thank you brother Osama, I knew that you will appreciate my efforts. Forgive me for my English grammar, since I live in Poland but I'm trying as much as I can. I love discovering new informations concerning prophecies of Muhammad (pbuh) in the Bible. I'm planning to publish insha'Allah probably the most detailed research ever made on this subject in polish language. Please, pray for me brother. Once I finish my work I'll share with you my newly findings (beforehand booking copyrights of course!) that's why I need your help :)
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As'salamu Alaikum dear everyone,
Here is the image that I have on my website regarding Prophet Muhammad's (peace be upon him) prophetic name, Ahmed, being found in the Dead Sea Scrolls:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/ahmed_in_dead_sea_scrolls.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm)
Click on the image to read the article and see the video-source of where it came from.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,
Here is a small finding that I got from the PDF file and from some of the references that were given:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/ahmed_not_atmak_in_dss.png)
To the reader, please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm. Feel free to add more questions. This is like brother Idris said: Is "really important".
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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One thing is bothering me, namely from where brother Abdullah ben Isa El Abd' al'Jabbar takes the image in which Ahmad is mentioned...I'm talking about the image below (fourth photo from the top):
that image you post is an edited image of what the author assumed to be the true word. Its is actually etmokah being edited for purpose of comparison. He just deleted the last letter and adjust the shape of 2 more internal letters.
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One thing is bothering me, namely from where brother Abdullah ben Isa El Abd' al'Jabbar takes the image in which Ahmad is mentioned...I'm talking about the image below (fourth photo from the top):
that image you post is an edited image of what the author assumed to be the true word. Its is actually etmokah being edited for purpose of comparison. He just deleted the last letter and adjust the shape of 2 more internal letters.
Salam,
How do you know my brother, that this image has been edited? The author of that book, under the fourth photo said in arabic that "based on that 'etmak' was originally 'ahmad' in the previous copy of the scroll" or perhaps I'm wrong ? What made you think that it is an edited image ?
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there is only one source of dead sea scroll made available online (scroll A). http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#42:1
there is another scroll called Isaiah Dead Sea (scroll B). however copy B is not made available online due to is fragile condition.
this is the image used by the author, basically i 'print screen' the page from the link above and crop it to the exact same portion, if you look carefully at the images posted by the author the surrounding letters are the same
only the portion e/t/m/o/k/h gets rearranged to e/h/m/a/d .
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/2ldu8et.png)
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Thank you brother one more time. I will ask them insha'Allah ! May Allah bless you for your help.
As a last resort, send that screenshot to them:
http://www.proz.com/translator-directory/?sp=directory&to=eng&from=arm&mode=view&specific=123
Standard rates are:
http://www.translatebyhumans.com/armenian-to-english-translation
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris to all brothers and sisters,
Keep up the great research and work, dear brother Idris. Your work is amazing! Insha'Allah it will be read by many. I will also link it to the website soon, Insha'Allah, along with other brothers' works as well that are in my que.
May Allah Almighty greatly bless you, akhi. Ameen.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Walikum Asalaam
Just so you know, we first need to verify those claims!
The text is ancient and i don't seriously think that any average armenian would be able to translate it.
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there is only one source of dead sea scroll made available online (scroll A). http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#42:1
there is another scroll called Isaiah Dead Sea (scroll B). however copy B is not made available online due to is fragile condition.
this is the image used by the author, basically i 'print screen' the page from the link above and crop it to the exact same portion, if you look carefully at the images posted by the author the surrounding letters are the same
only the portion e/t/m/o/k/h gets rearranged to e/h/m/a/d .
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/2ldu8et.png)
It's true that the surrounding letters are the same but please note the distance between kaph and bet comparing the third and fourth photo from the top. The distances are not the same. You can clearly see...in the third photo there is more spaces between kaph and the next word (i.e. bo'behiri...) than that one from the fourth photo. Besides, why the author wrote under the fourth photo "Based ON THAT, 'etmak' was originally 'ahmad' in the previous copy [of the scroll]" implying that this is a photo from a distinct scroll and he used it as the last blow! I can not believe that he edited the image just like that. Brother Osama am I wrong ?
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Thank you brother one more time. I will ask them insha'Allah ! May Allah bless you for your help.
As a last resort, send that screenshot to them:
http://www.proz.com/translator-directory/?sp=directory&to=eng&from=arm&mode=view&specific=123
Standard rates are:
http://www.translatebyhumans.com/armenian-to-english-translation
Salam akhi, what screenshot you mean ?
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris to all brothers and sisters,
Keep up the great research and work, dear brother Idris. Your work is amazing! Insha'Allah it will be read by many. I will also link it to the website soon, Insha'Allah, along with other brothers' works as well that are in my que.
May Allah Almighty greatly bless you, akhi. Ameen.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Walikum Asalaam
Just so you know, we first need to verify those claims!
The text is ancient and i don't seriously think that any average armenian would be able to translate it.
It is true we must to confirm that. I make some research upon Septuagint (analyzing the verse in greek script) and I'am almost sure that Ahmad was mentioned for the second time in Isaiah 42:10 ! The language of those Bibles is in classic Armenian, so I think people who spoke modern armenian are able to read it...but rather I'm afraid that due to the low quality of scanned pages can spoil it i.e. do not see clearly the shapes of individual letters, but you can say that it is possible to identify them
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It's true that the surrounding letters are the same but please note the distance between kaph and bet comparing the third and fourth photo from the top. The distances are not the same. You can clearly see...in the third photo there is more spaces between kaph and the next word (i.e. bo'behiri...) than that one from the fourth photo. Besides, why the author wrote under the fourth photo "Based on that, 'etmak' was originally 'ahmad' in the previous copy [of the scroll]" implying that this is a photo from a distinct scroll and he used it as the last blow! I can not believe that he edited the image just like that
-basically he is giving examples from other verses with letter L (lamed) below it in 1st and 2nd photo for comparison, to strengthen his theory that the original word was Ahmad.
-in 3rd photo he underline the kaph and letter lamed below it.
-The bo' behiri that you mentioned was cut and paste closer in 4th photo (edited one).
-the 5th photo is simply the 4th photo except that he reduces the gap so that the letter dalet that he edited will be close to the lamed below it.
he theorizes that much more older copy may have look like photo 5. but Qumran scribes when writing it try to figure what was the word and rather wrote it as atmk.
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It's true that the surrounding letters are the same but please note the distance between kaph and bet comparing the third and fourth photo from the top. The distances are not the same. You can clearly see...in the third photo there is more spaces between kaph and the next word (i.e. bo'behiri...) than that one from the fourth photo. Besides, why the author wrote under the fourth photo "Based on that, 'etmak' was originally 'ahmad' in the previous copy [of the scroll]" implying that this is a photo from a distinct scroll and he used it as the last blow! I can not believe that he edited the image just like that
-basically he is giving examples from other verses with letter L (lamed) below it in 1st and 2nd photo for comparison, to strengthen his theory that the original word was Ahmad.
-in 3rd photo he underline the kaph and letter lamed below it.
-The bo' behiri that you mentioned was cut and paste closer in 4th photo (edited one).
-the 5th photo is simply the 4th photo except that he reduces the gap so that the letter dalet that he edited will be close to the lamed below it.
he theorizes that much more older copy may have look like photo 5. but Qumran scribes when writing it try to figure what was the word and rather wrote it as atmk.
You may have right brother submit! So it seems actualy we do not posses a direct proof! The author however successfully proved - by presenting many examples of misreading and scribal mistakes comparing hebrew words in other places - that the passage of Isaiah 42:1 originally must have mentioned Ahmad !
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Yeah I am sure this is the page, bro. The verse numbers are exactly as in the modern bible.
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/VoFxptm.png)
Zoomed.....
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/GRcKRvs.png)
The fact that I am going to tell you know- I found out 4 days earlier. But I thought you would lose hope so I didn't say.
The name Ahmad doesn't exist, I am truly truly sorry for that. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/qELw6r4.png)
? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????
and his name in the ends of the earth (From Google T. = https://translate.google.com/?hl=en#hy/en/%D6%87%20%D5%A1%D5%B6%D5%B8%D6%82%D5%B6%20%D5%B6%D5%B8%D6%80%D5%A1%20%D5%9B%D5%AB%20%D5%AE%D5%A1%D5%A3%D5%A1%D6%81%20%D5%A5%D6%80%D5%AF%D6%80%D5%AB )
But I couldn't figure out what is written in the line about authority, not in the eastern one, not in Voscan's one. So we can still prove his existence if we can prove it means 'the mark of authority in his back'. This verse simply do not exist in modern bible, so something is fishy, cuz the rest is kept exactly the same but this verse- vanish! So pls dear bro don't lose hope.
Now why did I hid that fact for 4 days and why did I exposed that now? Because you just said something u didn't earlier!
1666 and 1733 edition are a copy of an ancient Armenian translation of the Bible (5th century A.D) which was based on Septuagint.
How can you be so sure they are the exact copy???? I will post two images shortly and prove that even 1666 and 1733 versions differ a little! So I say the name 'Ahmad' is obviously in the 5th century bible, which u just mentioned! Perhaps Voscan changed it. Because the later verses speak of islands (Arabia is a peninsula), village of Kedar, deserts, making war with kafirs- everything just perfectly fits in! It is obviously Prophet Ahmad.
Keep up, don't give up- we can still do it!
Tahmeed
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Now, see Isaiah 42:10 in the two editions.
1666
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/lbOI3FD.png)
1733
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1898_files/2QSxE5A.png)
The difference is silly, but it shows how can things change in 100 years, so they obviously changed since 5th century!
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Salam akhi, what screenshot you mean ?
Screenshot of those verses.
The Bible was written in 1666, almost 350 years have elapsed since then. That is more than enough for the changes to take place in vowel systems and alphabets. Even if the name "Ahmed" is mentioned in Voscan Bible, why would a site like holytrinity would inlcude it in their version of the Bible?
You need an expert.
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
May Allah Almighty bless you for your good research. Keep up the great work! I apologize for not being able to interact with you lately. I am currently buried alive with work :(. Once things clear up a little bit, then I will resume my Islamic activities and responsibilities on this website, Insha'Allah. I will translate the texts that you requested, Insha'Allah.
Take care of yourselves,
Osama Abdallah
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I formed a new interpretation of Isaiah 42:10 that may shock you but not now..I'am currently working on it ;) of course Ahmad's name and the mark of his authority will not be removed but it is rather an inside semantic stratum of a specific using of some biblical words (I'am not sure if I explained rightly what I'am trying to say ;D) for now brothers and sisters I wish you all a pleasant reading from Poland :)
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So what is the greek word for 'mark'?
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So...can I delete this post now ? :P don't try to use my findings haha ;D no I just kidding but make you sure that you citing my name in your references :'(
Hahaha ;D ;D ;D Akhi, where would I use your findings? I am a kid :P, student ;D hehehe.
But yes, that's why I was saying 'Publish them as soon as possible', because someone else might use your findings and take the credit.
Peace....
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Peace for everyone
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Salam Aleykom,
Has anyone received an answer from the author of this arabic book ?:
http://www.almaseh.net/index.php/corner-book/3790.html
I mean the photo where he shows Ahmad name in hebrew Isaiah 42:1 (that one which brother submit said that it is an edited photo).
(http://dc10.arabsh.com/i/01405/ia44u7absy13.jpg)
link: http://dc10.arabsh.com/i/01405/ia44u7absy13.jpg
Why the author still didn't answer on my question ? I've asked him aven in their fb fanpage but no answer. Man, it's not normal! I just want a confirmation that this photo is edited by him that's all. Please ask him again, and again until he gives some answer. (email: alfaqeer974@yahoo.com) or maybe he's got some new email adress, I do not know.
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2261 views of my post ? No answer from that author of the arabic book regarding what kind of the photos he puted in ? Oh come one!
Why this gut put an email to contact him when he do not answer ? ? ?
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Salam Aleykom brothers and sisters,
I would like to apologize for my unsightly behavior by removing valuable info of that topic. I should just add my name below each post, so that in the near future I'll be able to make a copyright for my book. For now, I will restore all of my posts which was removed, so you can read it and share it with your friends.
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers Idris and Tahmeed,
I have backed up all of your images on this website, and changed their locations in each one of your posts to point to this website. So, insha'Allah, they'll always be up and displaying when the reader reads your posts in this thread.
Jazakum Allah Khayr, dear brothers.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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