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MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: Idris on March 22, 2019, 11:56:28 PM
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As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,
I have not participated in this forum for long time.
I just want to tell you about a very interesting details which would be - as I think - a factual confirmation of the view that Prophet Mohammed (SAAW) is mentioned in Isaiah 29:12. I find this new discovery as a welcome support for Muslim interpretation.
Muslims for a long time have seen Isaiah 29:12 as an allusion to Prophet Mohammed's (SAAW) first revelation which was given by Gabriel (AS) in the cave Hira. Indeed, a very suggestive description is given by Isaiah, pointing to the first experience which according to the Muslim tradition occurred in this place.
There is a certain word which appear in the text of Isaiah 29:12 to which Muslims did not paid attention, since it was "obscured" under the translation. It seems that this word was originally understood as a proper name for a geographic location.
Moreover, I found a further confirmation from two patristic authorities that the one who was giving this book to the "unlettered one" is the Holy Spirit which in Islam is non other than Gabriel himself (AS). As biblical scholars has also observed, the motif of "creating human from clay" is a part of the chapter 29 which thematically fits the story of al-'Alaq.
I will discuss here insha'Allah this finding, but in return I would need some help from you.
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,
Welcome back akhi. Insha'Allah everything had been well for you and your family. Ameen.
In regards to your post, what kind of help do you need akhi? You can checkout www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm.
Jazaka Allah Khayr.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,
Jazaka Allah Khayr akhi. Go ahead and post your article and link the images to an outside site. I then will update your post and re-link your images to my website after I upload your images. I've done this with all of your previous posts and with a few brothers' posts here as well.
I have setup the blog to restrict certain functions on all except my account to prevent problems. This helps me keep the maintenance of this blog simple and always healthy for all :), insha'Allah. Hope this will work for you, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullah,
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Brother Idris made considerable updates and additions, and requested that his final work be linked here instead:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
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brother Osama, can you fix these last curved texts? I don't know why the text appeared in that way.
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Wa alaikum assalam
Great research brother !
So, how would you translate Greek text of Isaiah 29:12 in Sinaiticus:
??? ????????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ? ?? ??????????? ????????? ? ??? ??? ???? ? ???????? ????? ??? ??? . ??? ?????????? ?????????
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Wa alaikum assalam
Great research brother !
So, how would you translate Greek text of Isaiah 29:12 in Sinaiticus:
??? ????????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ????? ???????? ? ?? ??????????? ????????? ? ??? ??? ???? ? ???????? ????? ??? ??? . ??? ?????????? ?????????
Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
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Brother Idris made considerable updates and additions, and requested that his final work be linked here instead:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
I have fixed your article and uploaded your images and re-linked them, dear brother Idris. Jazaka Allah Khayr for this amazing research! Keep up the great work, dear brother. I will sure post your work as an official article on the website and heavily propagate it, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris and Everyone,
I have added the following new article and linked it to 60+ other articles:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris and Everyone,
I have added the following new article and linked it to 60+ other articles:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullah dear brother Osama,
thank you for fixing my article, although there is still some sentences left curved, however, this is not your fault bro. I asked to fix it just for an esthetical reason, that's all. Thank you also for adding this article to the prophecy about Isaiah 29:12, it looks nicely :)
Expect my next post with further research with new important discoveries insha'Allah!
Take care and salam
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As-salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,
.......
Brother Idris made considerable updates and additions, and requested that his final work be linked here instead:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
I have updated the website and added your new additions, and your exchange with brother Sama, to your article, brother Idris. Jazaka Allah Khayr! I look forward to more amazing posts from you insha'Allah, akhi Idris.
Please let me know if you want any changes in the emphasis that I added above and in your article. Feel free to post them here and I'll make the updates and delete the request-post to keep your research as close together as possible, insha'Allah:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,
I have updated the website and added your new additions, and your exchange with brother Sama, to your article, brother Idris. Jazaka Allah Khayr! I look forward to more amazing posts from you insha'Allah, akhi Idris.
Please let me know if you want any changes in the emphasis that I added above and in your article. Feel free to post them here and I'll make the updates and delete the request-post to keep your research as close together as possible, insha'Allah:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
As-salam aleikum wa rahmatullah dear brother Osama, jazakallahu khairan for taking care of my posts, that's kind of you akhi!
I will contact through a private message and I'll tell you what changes to introduce in my posts (only some additional info, plus correction of a few tiny mistakes in spelling since I have tendency to be strict and accurate, I hate to make any errors :) ). After you'll read this very post of mine, you can delete it since its needless
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Brother Idris made considerable updates and additions, and requested that his final work be linked here instead:
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh akhi Idris,
I have added your new updates to the article. I look forward to seeing your complete research with all 6 evidences complete, insha'Allah. This will be amazing, insha'Allah! Please let me know if any change is required, dear brother.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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If you also visit www.answering-christianity.com, you'll see your link on the main page above the Glorious Quran's STUNNING Miracles table. Great work, dear brother Idris! Please finish this article's research asap so that the complete work will be seen by the thousands that visit this site everyday.
All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty alone, and none else.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As-salam aleikum wa rahmatullah,
Jazaka Allahu khairan dear brother Osama, may Allah bless you! Yes, this research must be seen by people, and let them make their own judgment. I will do my best in order to finish this research insha'Allah.
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh,
Fixed. Please let me know if more fixes are required. Jazaka Allah Khayr, akhi Idris.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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I added the following to the article, akhi Idris:
(???? from Greek to English Google Translate: [1 (http://www.answering-christianity.com/xipa_in_greek.png)] [2 (http://www.answering-christianity.com/xipa_in_english.png)]).
The link is https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A7%CE%B9%CF%81%CE%AC
Notice everyone the two images above from Google Translate:
Click to enlarge and use arrow keys:
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/xipa_in_greek.png)
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/xipa_in_english.png)
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,
Watch the little movie clips that I also added to the article. They are pronunciations from Google:
www.answering-christianity.com/hira_in_greek_and_english.mp4 (????)
www.answering-christianity.com/xipac_hira_in_greek_and_english.mp4 (?????)
www.answering-christianity.com/isaiah29_12.htm
How Hira is read in both Greek and English and Google.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As-salam aleikum wa rahmatullah,
Dear brothers and sisters, be patient, the subsequent part of my research is coming insha'Allah. All I can say at the moment is that the complete version of this research will break all known interpretations of these obscure events described by Isaiah. These discoveries are spectacular and shocking!
Alhamdulillah, I hope in Ramadan Allah will bless this work and reveal through it the true or at least the more reliable picture of Isaiah's prophecies about Prophet Mohammed (SAAW).
Take care
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh akhi Idris and Everyone,
Jazaka Allah Khayr, dear brother. I look forward to your amazing research and additions very soon, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,
Here is something worth investigating, which occurred to me a few weeks ago. Jehovah Jirah or Jireh means Jehovah of mount Jirah, which is the mountain where Abraham was going to sacrifice his son, peace be upon them both.
Now here are a few thoughts:
1- We know mount Hira is in Mecca.
2- We know Isaiah's Prophecy about mount Hira includes the Angel Gabriel coming down upon the Servant who can't read and will command him to read, and the servant will respond "I can not read". We know in Islam that Prophet Muhammad perfectly fulfilled this Prophecy. Peace and Blessings be upon all of GOD Almighty's Prophets and Messengers.
3- Now we also know in Arabic Hira means being in a state of confusion, i.e., someone who is perplexed and confused.
4- We know Abraham was desperate to have a son, and prayed and begged and wept to GOD Almighty for long decades (10s of years) to have a son.
5- Abraham named his first son ISMAIL (ISHMAEL), which means GOD heard or GOD hears, i.e., GOD Almighty finally heard my long and desperate crys and weepings and prayings.
6- GOD Almighty put Abraham in a very confusing trial by commanding him to take his son to the mountain and slaughter him. Imagine Abraham here. So after all of these years of crying and weeping and praying to grant me a son, you finally give me one and you want me to slaughter him?
7- GOD Almighty then substituted the son for a lamb.
Question:
Could mount Hira in Mecca have been named by Abraham to mean the mountain of confusion, or the confusing trial? Could Jehovah Jirah be referring to GOD of Mount Hira in Mecca?
This is worth a research.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Also, brother Osama, I have sent you into your email some links related to your theory concerning the expression "Jehovah Jireh" (Gen. 22:14). It is possible that it might be what are you suggesting akhi! Masha'Allah.
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Jazaka Allah Khayr, dear brother Idris. I will get to your material hopefully tonight or tomorrow, insha'Allah. I've been very busy lately :).
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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No problem akhi. I have sent you my latest update to the section Evidence #1. This time I have added few articles and books written by scholars that confirms the spelling of Hira in its Greek transliterated form ????. A very important info!
Did you actually opened the last file with my updates to Evidence #1 ?
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Sorry dear brother, I've been quite busy lately. Too much work. I will see to it this weekend, insha'Allah.
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No problem akhi. I have sent you my latest update to the section Evidence #1. This time I have added few articles and books written by scholars that confirms the spelling of Hira in its Greek transliterated form ????. A very important info!
Did you actually opened the last file with my updates to Evidence #1 ?
Salam brother , i started a topic about this on FB and this brother Ijaz Ahamad, who is a debator with christians, tried to disprove your fiding, what can you say, can you get into the discussion on facebook with this brother if you have better argument than i have
(https://i.postimg.cc/6p3MMhG3/discussion.png)
our discussion on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/groups/130763117665481/596541127754342/?comment_id=597107107697744&reply_comment_id=597152174359904¬if_id=1572896796394919¬if_t=group_comment_mention
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Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,
I apologize for my late response! Yes, I will get to this discussion insha'Allah but from what I see, our brother Ijaz Ahmad either didn't understood well my research or he simply didn't read it entirely and/or didn't took into account all of the information related e.g. to the issue concerning the so-called "iotacism" which was a problematic one among the Septuagint experts themselves (like Alfred Rahlfs). According to traditional Islamic stories about prophets, it appears that this illiterate from Isaiah 29:12 was ORIGINALLY identified as "Ahmad" and he was connected directly with the character universally known as the "Servant of God" who is described in Isaiah 42 (Ibn Asakir recorded one naration from Ka'b al-Ahbar who found the name Ahmad being ascribed to this servant... in some Yemeni or probably Syriac version of Isaiah that available to him at that time). Besides that, there is a lot of other details which consequently lead in this direction supporting my argument about Ahmad who was originally mentioned in Isaiah as the ultimate redemptive figure but the last editors of the Hebrew Bible restructured the text and changed the whole prophetic narratives in favor of Israel (so they put Jacob/Israel insted of Ahmad!).
Anyway, perhaps the real reason Brother Idjaz Ahmad opposes my research is because he don't believe at all that Isaiah 29:12 is a prophecy about Prophet Mohammed (SAAW) because of the negative context in which the illiterate is put and because no early Muslim scholar ever has quoted the text of Isaiah 29:12 with respect to Prophet Mohammed (SAAW). The first one who started this argumentation was probably Ahmad Deedat.
I will try to enter the discussion in FB as soon as possible insha'Allah.
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Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,
I apologize for my late response! Yes, I will get to this discussion insha'Allah but from what I see, our brother Ijaz Ahmad either didn't understood well my research or he simply didn't read it entirely and/or didn't took into account all of the information related e.g. to the issue concerning the so-called "iotacism" which was a problematic one among the Septuagint experts themselves (like Alfred Rahlfs). According to traditional Islamic stories about prophets, it appears that this illiterate from Isaiah 29:12 was ORIGINALLY identified as "Ahmad" and he was connected directly with the character universally known as the "Servant of God" who is described in Isaiah 42 (Ibn Asakir recorded one naration from Ka'b al-Ahbar who found the name Ahmad being ascribed to this servant... in some Yemeni or probably Syriac version of Isaiah that available to him at that time). Besides that, there is a lot of other details which consequently lead in this direction supporting my argument about Ahmad who was originally mentioned in Isaiah as the ultimate redemptive figure but the last editors of the Hebrew Bible restructured the text and changed the whole prophetic narratives in favor of Israel (so they put Jacob/Israel insted of Ahmad!).
Anyway, perhaps the real reason Brother Idjaz Ahmad opposes my research is because he don't believe at all that Isaiah 29:12 is a prophecy about Prophet Mohammed (SAAW) because of the negative context in which the illiterate is put and because no early Muslim scholar ever has quoted the text of Isaiah 29:12 with respect to Prophet Mohammed (SAAW). The first one who started this argumentation was probably Ahmad Deedat.
I will try to enter the discussion in FB as soon as possible insha'Allah.
name Ahmad or Ahmod is found in Isaiah in dead sea scrolls, look here
(click to enlarge)
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/ahmed_in_dead_sea_scrolls_2.png)
hebrew bible
(click to enlarge)
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/ahmed_in_dead_sea_scrolls_1.png)
Word Ahmad in bible
???? Ahmad
Bible in hebrew Isaiah 42
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt1042.htm
DSS orginal manuscripts
http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah#42:1
freetranslation
https://www.freetranslation.com/
and i made this phtoo also, beacuse we need to compare word HIra with other words which corrector Cb3 tried to connect with, when you compare these obviosly it looks like he tried to correct it to match word Heiras
(click to enlarge)
(http://www.answering-christianity.com/hira_comparison.jpg)
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Dawud and Idris,
Jazakum Allah Khayr for your research.
Brother Dawud, I have saved and uploaded your images to the website and re-linked them in your post to permanently preserve them with this website, insha'Allah.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,
Jazaka Allah Khayr for the response. Amazing work, masha'Allah wa subhana'Allah.
Brother, I have uploaded your image above to the website to preserve it. Keep up the great work!!
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,
I haven't answered on my article for a long time. I just wanted to say that everything is going well alhamdulillah. In the next few days insha'Allah I will share here my critical evaluation of the above objections regarding the claim of the word Hira being mentioned in the text of Isaiah 29:12 according to Codex Sinaiticus. I take full responsibility for the claim and I will defend it with the permission and help of Allah.
I wish you blessed Ramadan, for all brothers and sisters.
Take care,
Idris (Ahmed)
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Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh,
Ramadan Mubarak to you and to your family as well, insha'Allah, dear brother Idris. Welcome back akhi.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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@IDRIS
How can we tackle this verse in Hebrew
?? ???????? ????????, ??? ?????? ???-????? ????? ??????--????? ???-???; ???????, ??? ?????????? ?????. {?} 12
and the writing is delivered to him that is not learned, saying: 'Read this, I pray thee'; and he saith: 'I am not learned.
if we compare it to codex sinaiticus
we can clearly see word Hira, which corrector change into HEIRAS to mean hands
isaih in hebrew is older than codex sinaiticus in greek, so if someone say why do we not find word HIra or Hands/Heiras in hebrew bible isaih 29:12?
How do you respond to that?
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris and Everyone,
Masha'Allah and may Allah Almighty continue to protect you and bless you with knowledge and skills, akhi, people care a lot about your research. Your posts on this blog have 10s of thousands of hits, walhamdulillah.
Keep up the great work akhi.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
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As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris and Everyone,
Masha'Allah and may Allah Almighty continue to protect you and bless you with knowledge and skills, akhi, people care a lot about your research. Your posts on this blog have 10s of thousands of hits, walhamdulillah.
Keep up the great work akhi.
Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh, thank you dear brother Osama for such kind words and dua. Amin! Same to you akhi.
Alhamdulillah, its realy good to hear that. Its certainly encouraging.
Take care
Idris
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Examples of place names ending with -ra [Gk. -??; Hb. = ??] are especially supportive and helpful during a tactical analysis for verification of the Hira thesis. I presupposes that in the Hebrew Vorlage it was written almost certainly as ???? which corresponds to the Arabic form ????
Now, it is interesting to note that the Greek translators of LXX (Septuagint) occasionally preferred a declinable forms of certain proper names. For example, the name ?????? (Esdras = Ezra) is an ancient Greek rendering of the Hebrew ????? (?Ezra), and as we can note, the LXX translators clearly prefers a declinable form [i.e. ??????], yet its indeclinable form is also attested in Nehemiah 7:7 as ????? (Esdra).
Thus, based on this one example with the -?? (= ??) ending, we can deduct (or at least assume) that ???? (chira) is an indeclinable form, while ????? (chiras) is its declinable form.
NOTE: if someone will spot other examples of Hebrew place names ending specifically with ?? and then transliterated in LXX with -???, please let us known here.
Take care,
Idris