Answering Christianity Research Center

MAIN BOARD (You must register to post) => GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS => Topic started by: Ramihs97 on August 29, 2016, 06:50:57 AM

Title: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on August 29, 2016, 06:50:57 AM
Now the word الأرض means Earth or land or ground or floor.

However the quran also uses many words like Sutiha / basataha and madha and maddadha.

Isn't there any flatness being involved?  What did previous commentators say and how do we know when it's referring to land and not earth not to fit our agenda ?

Also in judgement day. Will we be judged in the heavens as in our soul/body ?

Or resurrected from the ground of the earth with our dust bones? 

The second part doesn't make sense because judgement day supposedly is when the universe goes crazy. Why would الله resurrect us only to kill us again ?

And how would our dust bones and flesh come back especially on earth ?

Thank you.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Islam1st on August 29, 2016, 07:19:43 AM
If you want us to answer your questions 1 by 1, then why not make it 1 thread? Why did you make 1 separate to another, I am not going to call you a troll, because it seems to me that you are genuinely asking questions, to clear doubt. However just wait for 1 doubt to be cleared, before the other. I recommend that you stop thinking too much and arguing with the Shaitan, because the Shaitan will immediately give you another doubt, do you not see this as a sign that you are consistently thinking about doubts, this is clear that the Shaitan is giving you doubts. Just say Auoodhobillahi minashaytaanirajeeem, and stop indulging in all this philosophy, you can refute these, when you gain the knowledge, continue seeking the knowledge of Islam, and then you can argue against others, right now, you are probably nowhere near qualified to start refuting other people's claims, and your own doubts, to an  exceptional level.
And Allah knows best.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: submit on August 29, 2016, 07:34:15 AM
لأرض earths is where human and jinns roam while heavens will be where angels and celestial objects roams.

when talking about a place where human and jinns roam, it will be described as spread vastly wide.

Recreating universe from start will be easy for the Creator. After resurrection, all creations will be given eternal life.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on August 29, 2016, 07:48:06 AM
As'salamu Alaikum Everyone,

Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/sutihat_miracle.htm.  Everything you need is there, Insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: submit on August 29, 2016, 08:20:51 AM
Good point in the article, if the verses of Quran means the shape of earth is flat unlike moon and sun,
then it should be 100% of knowledgeable Muslims  and commoners Muslims making images of flat earth.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on August 29, 2016, 08:23:59 AM
@Osama سبحان الله العظيم. So Sutihat really means pressed ? That's kind of unbelievable what the hell hahaha. Wow that's amazing.

Much thanks for clearing that out. Why do these Christians and jews try to bash Islam when it's literally the closest thing we have to الله ? They should be helping us as a matter of fact.

In regards to my question on judgement day ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Saudi Salafi on August 29, 2016, 09:20:14 AM
 This issue has been discussed over here:

http://quran-errors.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/does-quran-teach-that-earth-is-flat.html?m=1

I suggest that you read the link above.

All of the scholars except for a very small number agree that the Earth is round:

https://islamqa.info/en/118698


Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on August 29, 2016, 03:44:06 PM
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

All Praise and Glory and Thanks are due to Allah Almighty Alone.  I thank Allah Almighty that my article was a good help for you. 

Dear brother Ramihs, please always feel free to ask all of your questions akhi.  Insha'Allah, you'll get them all answered here. 



Akhi Abdullah, you do realize that the Salafi link that you gave refutes you about the egg-shaped argument?  Here is what they said:

"Thus it is known that the Earth is round, and that is not contradicted by the fact that it is like an egg. Rather the false view is that which claims that it is flat, as the Church used to believe and for that reason used to curse and burn those scientists who said that it was round.

See: al-‘Almaaniyyah: Nash’atuha wa Tatawwuruha (1/130)" (https://islamqa.info/en/118698)

Here is the link where you argued this:
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=2137.msg9273#msg9273

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: khdrb on August 29, 2016, 06:53:13 PM
I believe that(sutihat سطحت = been surfaced) and it's without a shadda( it's a punctuation mark to multiply the letter). if it with shadda it will be(Sutttihhat) that means being surfaced more than one surface .. (saqf سقف = roof)  (sath سطح = surface) (sath al bayt = home surface when walk on it and saqf roof when we are under it)( sath al qamar = moon surface ) ( suqifa al baitu = the home been roofed ) . Allah glory to him telling us to see  the way the earth been surfaced . is to look how beautiful is the earth surface and how nice is the design of that surface and how it so different than the underground and how much it's easier and interesting life for who lives on the surface. it could be that interpretation it could be yours , it could be both. and the only god knows best.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on August 30, 2016, 12:01:46 AM
As I showed in the many definitions, if something gets SUTIH, it means it got pressed.  A man who is MASTOOH is someone who is very bloated after eating too much food that he feels he's about to blow up.  A nose that is MASTOOH, is a nose that is pressed in.  An earth that is MASTOOHA or has been SUTIHAT, means that it's been pressed.

Also, scientists today have confirmed that the earth has gone through "The Big Splat", where a planet size body of mostly-iron had slammed into earth and formed its iron core.  So the earth was SUTIHAT there by having that whole body of planet slamming itself right through it.  And did not Allah Almighty Himself Say that He sent down iron:

"We sent aforetime Our messengers with clear signs and sent down them the Book and the Balance (of right and wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down iron, in which is (material for) Mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of strength, exalted in Might (And able to enforce His Will).  (The Noble Quran, 57:25)"



Why Iron??

Out of all of the metals that Allah Almighty created and were known to man 1400 years ago, Allah Almighty chose to speak about IRON BEING SENT DOWN FROM SPACE TO EARTH, which had been scientifically confirmed.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm

Also the earth is bulged at the equator due to its high speed rotation.  This has caused for the equator to get pressed and bulge out.  The earth here is also SUTIHAT.



Sutihat is referring to a colossal event!

Another point worth mentioning is that when we look at the context of the Noble Verses, we see Allah Almighty bringing our attentions to investigate and research certain main things.  Let's look at the Noble Verses:

88:17 افلا ينظرون الى الابل كيف خلقت
‏88:18 والى السماء كيف رفعت
‏88:19 والى الجبال كيف نصبت
‏88:20 والى الارض كيف سطحت

[088:017]  Do they not look at the Camels, how they are made?-
[088:018]  And at the Sky, how it is raised high?-
[088:019]  And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm?-
[088:020]  And at the Earth, how it is spread out SUTIHAT (سطحت, formed after a splat, is pressed and expanded)?

Notice how Allah Almighty is Commanding us to look into:

1-  The complex creation of the camel (the ship of the desert).

2-  The Heavens above us.

3-  The mountains on earth and how they were formed.

4-  The earth and how it was SUTIHAT.

The context clearly suggests looking at events such as the "The Big Splat", and the bulging of the earth at the equator events.  Again, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/sutihat_miracle.htm

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Saudi Salafi on August 30, 2016, 01:40:58 AM
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

All Praise and Glory and Thanks are due to Allah Almighty Alone.  I thank Allah Almighty that my article was a good help for you. 

Dear brother Ramihs, please always feel free to ask all of your questions akhi.  Insha'Allah, you'll get them all answered here. 



Akhi Abdullah, you do realize that the Salafi link that you gave refutes you about the egg-shaped argument?  Here is what they said:

"Thus it is known that the Earth is round, and that is not contradicted by the fact that it is like an egg. Rather the false view is that which claims that it is flat, as the Church used to believe and for that reason used to curse and burn those scientists who said that it was round.

See: al-‘Almaaniyyah: Nash’atuha wa Tatawwuruha (1/130)" (https://islamqa.info/en/118698)

Here is the link where you argued this:
www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=2137.msg9273#msg9273

Take care,
Osama Abdallah


 Yup! And here we go again! Osama's ridiculous hatred against Salafis and Saudi scholars. Wether  you like it or not Osama there are rarely any  scholars  besidesthe scholars of Saudi Arabia and most scholars call them selves "Salafi". I'm a Salafi and so is everyone who follows proper Sunni Islam. And as for your attempts to attack the article that I put out:

Really? Are you kidding me? Yes, the Earth is "egg shaped" and everyone nowadays calls it that way. The main point is that it is round. The Earth actually looks a little like a pear according to Neil Degrasse Tyson. Their is nothing wrong with the link that I gave.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: khdrb on August 30, 2016, 05:14:47 AM
about MASTOOH yes people using it after eating too much, maybe it's a new expression maybe old, but is that suppose to mean that they are giving the right expression ? I say MazToom fit that situation more don't you think? MASTOOH can be mean (this thing have been surfaced) I.E (Sutiha fa howa Mastoohon) ('Okila fa howa Ma'koolon)( 'Osira fa howa Ma'sooron ). and Allah knows best.

note: they also use the word (Satih) when they hear someone burping in high sound after drinking cola. it's like telling em go explode or something and i dunno what exactly does it mean :D . they use it for melon(estah al bateekha) (Estahilna hal bateekha ya m3allem)

غير أن الذي يخرج المرء من عقاله و يحط الأعل بالكف على طريقة معازيبنا السوريين و يسطح بتسكين السين أي يفلق كما سطح البطيخة بالسكين ،هو أن عملية تسطيح الموضوعات - و التسطيح هنا بمعنى التبسيط لدرجة تفريغ هذه الموضوعات من مضامينها - هو سجالٌ بين القنوات الفضائية –ولا أستثني أحداً، وبين ضيوفهم المتفذلكين رغم أن جهلهم المدفوع الثمن ماثلٌ للمشاهدين كما ندوب عمليات شد وجوه الحيزبونات!

they also uses the word (sathi for the shallow person)

@Abdullah Almadi
that's why I always say lets cut the shaping of the earth from the Quran if you don't have the tools to see how it is looks like. because Allah words can be interpreted wrong or right based on the human endeavor. I hate really to enroll Quran in unseen cases .
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on August 30, 2016, 06:56:16 AM
So clearly the word Sutihat means either spread out or pressed depending on how it's spelt (which Christian fools wouldn't know with their four corner world). Maybe this could help you guys more http://www.almaany.com/quran/88/20/4/

Guys wasn't there a verse in the quran similar to the bible saying that even if they built a tower or tree they wouldnt reach heaven ?

Also if heavens and earth were made in 6 epoch/periods. Then why do we consider our days to be 6 in our calender?
And same verses say 2nd day and 4th day. If it were truely a metaphor then why was it implied with different numbers ? Wouldnt that indicate our days ?

Shokran.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on August 30, 2016, 07:56:55 PM
Again, Sutihat means being pressed and bulged, and also being flattened.  In the link above, I gave an example from the dictionary that say:

أنف مسطح: منبسط جداً
   
A musattah nose is a very flat and slapped nose.

If a Nose is Musattah or Mastooh or Sutiha, it means that it is pressed and flattened.  This means that it would bulge from the sides.  Sutihat doesn't mean something became flat sheet of paper.  An object that SUTIHA becomes pressed and bulged.  And the earth is such an object.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 03, 2016, 01:22:41 PM
Thank you for the help guys. What about the second part regarding judgement day ?

As in will we be resurrected on earth ? If so then :

A) Doesn't our bones disintegrate ?
B) why would we be resurrected only to die again since earth will go crazy and insane.

OR will we be resurrected and judged in Jannah with Allah ?

Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 03, 2016, 06:54:33 PM
Bump
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 03, 2016, 08:02:07 PM
Quote
Thank you for the help guys. What about the second part regarding judgement day ?

As in will we be resurrected on earth ? If so then :

A) Doesn't our bones disintegrate ?
B) why would we be resurrected only to die again since earth will go crazy and insane.

OR will we be resurrected and judged in Jannah with Allah ?

As'salamu Alaikum,

Great question!  After the Cosmic Crunch (also known as Big Crunch), where the Universe will roll back like the rolling back of scrolls, Allah Almighty will RE-CREATE the Universe with a SECOND EARTH that we will resurrect from.  This is all in the Glorious Quran, and the Cosmic Crunch and the rolling of the Universe is also confirmed by Science.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/cosmic_crunch.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/cosmic_crunch_and_creation_of_2nd_universe_and_earth.mp3
www.answering-christianity.com/miracle_of_the_space_fabric.htm



Proof that "Earth" الارض is also Plural:

والارض جميعا (all of the earths)

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, also said there are earths أرضين like ours in the Universes.  Please visit: www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm


In the third link above, in the article that I wrote, there is a MIGHTY REFERENCE that clearly and indisputably proves that EARTH is both plural and singular and not just singular:

[039:067]  No just estimate have they made of God, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth ALL OF THE EARTHS والارض جميعا[/size] will be but His handful,  and the heavens will be rolled up والسماوات مطويات in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!

‏39:67 وما قدروا الله حق قدره والارض جميعا قبضته يوم القيامة والسماوات مطويات بيمينه سبحانه وتعالى عما يشركون


"God is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that God has power over all things, and that God comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.  (The Noble Quran, 65:12)"

The word "number" does not exist in the Arabic Noble Verse.



Notice the following points:

1-  We know that Allah Almighty created 7 HEAVENS and of the EARTH similar to them.  That's in the Quran, and can also be found here:

www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm

2-  Notice here Allah Almighty talked about ALL OF THE HEAVENS will be all Rolled up: والسماوات مطويات.

3-  And all of the EARTHS will also be rolled up: والارض جميعا.  All of the earths in all of the seven Heavens.



4-  Allah Almighty spoke about MANY EARTHS THROUGHOUT THE 7 HEAVENS, and here He referred to all of them as EARTH الارض

5-  الارض in the Glorious Quran is both singular and plural.  The Noble Verses here definitely support this 100%.

6-  والارض جميعا (all of the earths) is speaking about all of the earths in the seven Heavens.  Yet, Allah Almighty used the same Word, الارض , which is also used in the singular.




All living Creatures in the Universe:

7-  Furthermore, Allah Almighty Said:

"And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens (plural) and the earth, and the living creatures that He has scattered through them ومابث فيهما من دابة: and He has power to gather them together when He wills.  (The Noble Quran, 42:29)"

 ‏42:29 ومن اياته خلق السماوات والارض ومابث فيهما من دابة وهو على جمعهم اذا يشاء قدير

Please visit the following article to see the ample Noble Verses where Allah Almighty used HEAVEN and HEAVENS in the singular and plural:

www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm#explosion_of_universe

Indeed, Allah Almighty scattered through all of the EARTHS in the Universe living creatures.  All Praise and Thanks and Glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone, and no one else.




Nothing is Hidden:

Also, in Noble Verse 3:5, Allah Almighty Said that NOTHING in earth (singular) الارض and HEAVEN (singular) سماء  is hidden from Him.  Obviously, here Allah Almighty is speaking about THE ENTIRE ETERNITY OF ALL CREATIONS, and all of the creations.  Not just our single earth and Heaven.  Here Earth is all Earths, and Heaven is all Heavens.

‏‏3:5 ان الله لايخفى عليه شئ في الارض ولا في السماء

[003:005] Allah -- surely nothing is hidden from Him in the earth or in the heaven.


Sometimes Allah Almighty speaks in the singular to emphasize the GREATNESS of something.  Like for example when He commanded the Muslims to ONLY CALL to Him in Prayer.  He didn't use the Majestic WE.  Instead, He used the singular I.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/islam.htm

Noble Verse 3:5 above is also one of those Noble Verses where the singular is used to emphasize the greatness of something.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: submit on September 04, 2016, 12:47:33 AM
Quote
They have not appraised Allah with true appraisal, while the earth entirely will be [within] His grip on the Day of Resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him.
And the Horn will be blown, and whoever is in the heavens and whoever is on the earth will fall dead except whom Allah wills. Then it will be blown again, and at once they will be standing, looking on. (39:67-68)


the heavens got roll up and stars,planets,rocks movements will be in disarray. some of them will be heading towards earth.


Quote
There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.
So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny?
And when the heaven is split open and becomes rose-colored like oil (55:35-37)

Quote
[It will be] on the Day the earth will be replaced by another earth, and the heavens [as well], and all creatures will come out before Allah , the One, the Prevailing. (14:48)

the essence of the destroyed earth will still be used to recreate or reshape new earth with its past creatures.



Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 04, 2016, 03:52:22 AM
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Submit,

Jazaka Allah Khayr for your explanation.  But akhi, I don't see where it would disagree with multiple earths:

 ‏39:67 وما قدروا الله حق قدره والارض جميعا قبضته يوم القيامة والسماوات مطويات بيمينه سبحانه وتعالى عما يشركون
 ‏39:68 ونفخ في الصور فصعق من في السماوات ومن في الارض الا من شاء الله ثم نفخ فيه اخرى فاذا هم قيام ينظرون

[039:067]  No just estimate have they made of God, such as is due to Him: On the Day of Judgment the whole of the earth will be but His handful, and the heavens will be rolled up in His right hand: Glory to Him! High is He above the Partners they attribute to Him!

[039:068]  The Trumpet will (just) be sounded, when all that are in the heavens and on earth will swoon, except such as it will please God (to exempt). Then will a second one be sounded, when, behold, they will be standing and looking on!

Certainly, "7 HEAVENS and of the EARTH similar to them" (65:12) clearly suggests multiple earths.  The number, however, is not just 7 earths.  As I have adequately demonstrated and proven above, earth is both singular and plural.

You further said:

Quote
the essence of the destroyed earth will still be used to recreate or reshape new earth with its past creatures.

I am not sure about that, because Allah Almighty Said:

يوم نطوي السماء كطي السجل للكتب كما بدأنا أول خلق نعيده وعدا علينا إنا كنا فعلين

"The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfill it.  (The Noble Quran, 21:104)"

I am not sure after the Big Cosmic Crunch anything from earth will remain LOL :).  Certainly, Allah Almighty Said that He'll repeat the creation as He began it.  Again, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/hot_gas.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 04, 2016, 06:12:29 PM
Our bones DO disintegrate but if Allah says be everything becomes,so if he says to our disintegrated bones "Be" and to our skin "Be" wont we become?


We will be woken only to be judged,to receive our final judgement,to see what Is our final destination,and we wont be killed again,we will be sent to our rightful places,Hell OR heaven.
but the earth will die off.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 04, 2016, 06:56:37 PM
@AMuslimDude123 So what you're saying is we'll be resurrected here and judged after the earth dies off?

Where will this judgement/resurrection take place heaven or hell ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 04, 2016, 08:55:29 PM
No the judgement will be before it,in Mount Arafat,the Seat of Allah is there where he will judge us.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 04, 2016, 08:58:33 PM
but however this is Pakistani mythology,But we will be judged on earth,after we get our rightful places its over.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 05, 2016, 09:30:21 AM
Could someone please elaborate what is meant by بساطا ؟ is it carpet or spread ?

And doesnt a carpet give off the impression of flat ?

Thanks in advance guys
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 05, 2016, 03:47:55 PM
Unless this could be referring to tectonic plates ? but aren't those irregular shaped ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 06, 2016, 03:56:27 AM
The carpet is an impression of the earth's terrain Allah describes it as spread out as a carpet. mould a carpet that is green,blue,and all the earth's color onto a Sphere,you have a thing JUST like earth which is a miracle of the Qur'an.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 06, 2016, 08:55:35 AM
I kind of have a hard time understanding that tbh cause carpet really gives off a wrong impression
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 06, 2016, 10:33:03 AM
https://islamqa.info/en/211655

this explains it
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 06, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
@AMuslimDude123 i see thanks for the link. But what have scholars of old said regarding these verses ? Did they teach the earth was flat like the Christians ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Saudi Salafi on September 06, 2016, 02:21:26 PM
@AMuslimDude123 i see thanks for the link. But what have scholars of old said regarding these verses ? Did they teach the earth was flat like the Christians ?


 Read my oldest comment in this section. Almost all scholars said that the Earth is round.

You should also read this article:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__the_qur_an_and_the_shape_of_the_earth_


 It refutes every verse which the anti-Islamics bring up. Read it.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: submit on September 07, 2016, 06:10:23 AM
Most of the earth verses in Quran are describing about how spacious the earth from one's viewpoint as the space is constraint by the the farthest of horizon one sees anywhere he stands. One will feel at ease seeing the vastness of earth.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: AMuslimDude213 on September 07, 2016, 07:50:41 PM
To Ramihs,
The Scholars of the old taught the earth was a circular sphere,
look at Old Muslim maps
For Example Muhammad Al Idrisi's Map
Al-Kashgari's map
This is Al-Idrisi's Map

http://crossingtheoceansea.com/OceanSeaPages/OS-14-Al-Idrisi-Map.html
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 08, 2016, 02:20:16 PM
Again a great thanks to you all. I'd be so lost and miserable if it weren't for this website.

Guys have any of you seen the video of Z. Al naggar saying the quran says the earth came before the heavens ? Isn't that a major error ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 08, 2016, 08:37:26 PM
He never said that akhi.  Take a listen here from minute 01:20:

www.answering-christianity.com/time_and_speed_of_light_precisely_in_noble_quran.mp3

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 08, 2016, 08:43:29 PM
@Osama akhi i believe I've seen it on youtube under "Naggar claims earth came before universe quran."

Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 08, 2016, 08:54:37 PM
I just updated my post above and added the minute position that you should hear, because he directly answer this very question.  He said that earth and the universe are the same age, but rocks go through cycles, and our current earth is only 4.6 billion years old (he said that in minute 02:05).  But earth started exactly with the Universe, and they both have the same age, roughly around 10 billions years old.

He said that.  I think you have it mixed up.


Also, scientists believe that our Universe is between 10 to 16 billion years old, around 13.8 billion years old:

"The age of universe can be determined by imaging what the universe looked like in the past, “rewinding” the expansion. In the past the galaxies must have been closer together, and in the distant past they would have been packed together in a tiny point. If we assume that the expansion rate is constant over time, the age for the universe as a whole is about 10 billion years. However, astronomers have been working over the last 20 years to determine how the expansion rate changes with time. We now know that early in the universe the expansion was slowing down, but now it is speeding up. Using careful measurements of this change in expansion rate, the age of the universe is now known quite precisely to be 13.77±.059 billion years. 9"

[9]- See NASA official Dr. Edward J. Wollack, "How Old is the Universe" NASA (2012) for for the latest values and more information on how this calculation is made. (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_age.html)

SOURCE: http://biologos.org/common-questions/scientific-evidence/ages-of-the-earth-and-universe



"If the Universe had the same current properties today but were made of 100% normal matter and no dark matter or dark energy, our Universe would be only 10 billion years old. If the Universe were 5% normal matter (with no dark matter or dark energy) and the Hubble constant were 50 km/s/Mpc instead of 70 km/s/Mpc, our Universe would be a whopping 16 billion years old. With the combinations of things we have today, however, we can confidently state 13.81 billion years is the age of the Universe, with a very small uncertainty. It’s an incredible feat of science."

SOURCE: http://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/08/27/ask-ethan-how-do-we-know-the-universe-is-13-8-billion-years-old/#5b677c2c37d4

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 04:06:41 PM
Could someone please elaborate the following as to why :

Some have translated 51:48 as "laid flat" ? If it was known that the earth isn't flat why would such even be translated ?

Also at the very end of this link :

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_sam_shamoun_s_article__the_qur_an_and_the_shape_of_the_earth_

There's a tafsir from Ibn Abbas

 ( And when the earth is spread out) like the spreading out of a flat plain; and it is also said this means: when the earth is removed from its place and then flattened. (Ibn Abbaas, Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn 'Abbâs, Commentary on Surah 84:3
 
 ^ isn't the above implying that he thought he earth was flat ? 

This sam shamwow idiot needs to be stopped. Like honestly man the whole reason atheism is grew to a large scale is from his oppressive Christianity religion. The best he could do is convert to Islam..
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 04:25:58 PM
In addition. Surah 21:44 uses the word اطراف. Which means tip,end or side.  Isn't similar to the bibles 4 corners of the earth ???

InshAllah there's an answer for this.
الله اعلم.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 04:42:29 PM
Also,in quran.com/21:44 the word is translated to  border. Doesn't this also imply a flat earth ?

I never thought I'd find these words in the quran ??
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 04:48:51 PM
Lastly,border appears in 13:41
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: khdrb on September 15, 2016, 06:11:28 PM
i already mentioned them in previous replies. how many outlying parts to the egg dear ? 1 or 2 or it depends ? how many outlaying part to the American football ? 2 right ? can i make in some magic another outlaying part ? did the Quran mentioned how many outlying parts the earth have? so can the spherical shape have some outlying parts ? do you think that the spherical shape you see from NASA can show you the outlying parts of earth? when you hold a magnet in your hand they will tell you this is the south pole and north pole , can you call the pole of the magnet just a pole or an outlying part either ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 06:24:38 PM
@khdrb I'm very sorry akhi i couldn't comprehend ur analogy?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 15, 2016, 08:36:27 PM
Anyone ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 16, 2016, 12:16:48 AM
As'salamu Alaikum akhi Ramihs,

Here are my responses to your points above:



Noble Verse 51:48:

1-  ‏51:48 والارض فرشناها فنعم الماهدون

FARASHNAHA فرشناها is derived from FARASHA فرش, which means:

1.  To spread out.
2.  To clothe.  As in farasha al-sareer (placing the cover on the bed).  Farasha al-sareer also means prepared the bed, as in made it neat and ready.

الماهدون MAAHIDOON is derived from MAHD, which means:

1.  Make comfortable.
2.  Cradle.  As in from cradle to grave (Mina al-madh المهد ila al-lahd لحد).

So basically earth is a PREPARED BED for us.  But this bed is also a rocking one as Allah Almighty Said in:

78:6 الم نجعل الارض مهادا

[078:006]  Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse rocking cradle  مهادا,

Notice the following:

مهد means bed.

مهادا means a rocking bed.


The relationship and balance between مهد and مهادا in Arabic is like:

1-  حرث (harth), tilth, and حراث (hiraath), plowing the earth.

2-  قتل (qatl), kill, and قتال (qitaal), fighting.

3-  جهد (juhd), effort, and جهاد (jihaad), struggling.

So مهد is bed.  مهادا is a bed in action.


Let us now look at our planet earth's "Axial Tilt" that makes it look like a cradle:

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_like_cradle.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_like_cradle.wmv)

www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm#geology_moving_earth_rain




Noble Verse 84:3:

This is a future Prophecy regarding the streching of earth that had been scientifically confirmed.  It is a STUNNING one and I have written an article on it with detailed Western scientific references and also videos proving this:

www.answering-christianity.com/end_of_times_volcanoes_caused_by_stretching_of_earth.htm




Noble Verse 21:44:

There are two scientifically proven answers for this Noble Verse:

1-  The actual planet earth is shrinking.  This had been confirmed by NASA and other Scientific agencies:

www.google.com/#q=earth+is+shrinking


2-  The rising seas (a Quranic Prophecy) are reducing the livable lands that we live on.  Entire towns will drowned by the sea:

www.google.com/#q=sea+levels+are+rising

The rising seas before the Hour is an End-of-Times Prophecy in the Glorious Quran;

[052:001]  By the Mount (of Revelation);
[052:002]  By a Decree inscribed
[052:003]  In a Scroll unfolded;
[052:004]  By the much-frequented Fane;
[052:005]  By the Canopy Raised High;
[052:006]  And by the Ocean filled with Swell;-
[052:007]  Verily, the Doom of thy Lord will indeed come to pass;-
[052:008]  There is none can avert it;-
[052:009]  On the Day when the firmament will be in dreadful commotion.
[052:010]  And the mountains will fly hither and thither.
[052:011]  Then woe that Day to those that treat (Truth) as Falsehood;-

‏52:1 والطور
‏52:2 وكتاب مسطور
‏52:3 في رق منشور
‏52:4 والبيت المعمور
‏52:5 والسقف المرفوع
‏52:6 والبحر المسجور
‏52:7 ان عذاب ربك لواقع
‏52:8 ماله من دافع
‏52:9 يوم تمور السماء مورا
‏52:10 وتسير الجبال سيرا
‏52:11 فويل يومئذ للمكذبين

By the way, the atmosphere being our raised and protective roof is also mentioned in several Noble Verses in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/ozone_layer_protecting_earth.htm


As to "sides", the spherical earth does still have boundaries.  Lands on earth are divided into sections.  Perhaps this is even referring to the continents after they broke off from each others as the earth expanded:

‏13:4 وفي الارض قطع متجاورات وجنات من اعناب وزرع ونخيل صنوان وغير صنوان يسقى بماء واحد ونفضل بعضها على بعض في الاكل ان في ذلك لايات لقوم يعقلون

[013:004] And in the earth are neighbouring tracts وفي الارض قطع متجاورات, and gardens of vines, and green crops (fields etc.), and date-palms, growing out two or three from a single stem root, or otherwise (one stem root for every palm ), watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Verily, in these things, there are Ayat (proofs, evidences, lessons, signs) for the people who understand.

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/expansion_of_earth1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_its_waters.htm)

This is explained in more details in the following sub-section.


Also, the Glorious Quran supports this through the The land-sea ratio Miracle - Mentioned in the Glorious Quran and confirmed by Science.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/land_sea_ratio_miracle.htm








The earth expanded spherically:

Also, if you read in my material (http://www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm#geology_moving_earth_rain), you will find that Allah Almighty Said that He has expanded the earth spherically:

1-  To push.

2-  To throw.

دحا   (daha):  دفعه و رمى به (dafa'aahu wa ramaa bih) Caused it to move, pushed it, or threw it.

دحا الصبي المِدحاةَََ أي دفع الصبي المِدحاةَََ   Daha the boy the rolling toy, means the boy pushed the rolling toy.


3-  To make something roll, as in DAHA the barrel from the top of the hill, which means he rolled it down from the top of the hill.  Also, this is where the Arabic word DAHRAJA is derived from, which means to make something roll down.

4-  To make something round.  I used several examples for ROUND AND BULGED TUMMY, and making round objects.  I even used a Hadith from Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, when he said:

In Prophet Muhammad's Hadith: كان لأسامة بطننٌ مُندحٌ اي متسع   Osama had a round and big tummy.

Also the dictionary says:
الدحداح هو المستدير الململم    The dahdaah is the person who is ROUND and STOCKY.

و بطنٌ مُنداحُ أي خارخٌ مُدوّر  His tummy is mun-daahun means it is OUT THERE AND ROUND مُدوّر.



So when Allah Almighty DAHA THE EARTH, it means that Allah Almighty EXPANDED IT SPHERICALLY through rotating it around itself and moving it in its orbit in space.  And this is why Allah Almighty Said after that (after He DAHAHA), He brought forth from it its water and pasture.  Science has proven this to be 100% accurate and True:


1-  Water was brought forth from the earth - Science confirmed it and the Holy Quran claimed it 1400 years ago:

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_its_water.png) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_its_waters.htm)


2-  Our earth expanded and produced its own water:

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/expansion_of_earth1.jpg) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/expansion_of_earth.wmv)

And

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_water_after_earth_expansion.png) (http://www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_water_after_earth_expansion.wmv)



So اطراف (sides) can refer to either the entire earth shrinking, or the lands that we live on shrinking and sinking.  And Allah Almighty Always Knows Best.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/detailed_meanings_of_scientific_words_in_verses.htm#geology_moving_earth_rain
www.answering-christianity.com/bringing_forth_its_waters.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

The doomed-to-Hell infidels have nothing but noise on Islam.




But Prophet Muhammad didn't interpret them like this:

I get this lame argument a lot.  But Prophet Muhammad himself admitted, and Allah Almighty thoroughly confirmed that the Prophet couldn't interpret much of the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/prophet_muhammad_did_not_know_everything_about_quran.htm

So this lame argument that if it's not in the Hadiths (sayings) of the Prophet, then we don't accept it fails.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 16, 2016, 01:49:14 AM
looool Osama laying the smackdown !! Thanks for all the help you give us,you're saving lives lol.

So the earth expanded first then started contracting ? Does the Quran refer to both events happening ? If so won't there be any contradiction between both theories ?

Wouldn't one assume the verse to be saying end of earth ?

Also,to clear misinterpretations. How can one differentiate between Land,Ground,Floor and Earth in the Quran since they all have the same meaning ?
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 16, 2016, 05:19:27 AM
All thanks, praise and glory are due to Allah Almighty Alone, akhi, and no one else.  But I thank you for the kind words.  I thank Allah Almighty that I was able to help you and help others greatly. 

The Glorious Quran, as demonstrated above, speaks about:

1-  Allah Almighty spherically expanded the earth, and brought forth from it its water and pasture.

2-  Allah Almighty is shrinking the earth.

There is no contradiction, because in point #1, the earth was created and formed, and in point #2 the earth 4.6 billion or so years after began to shrink.

And no, the Holy Quran doesn't speak about:

1-  Four corners of the earth.
2-  Beginning of the earth and end of the earth.

You don't find any statement like this anywhere in the Glorious Quran.


As to land, floor ground, etc..., they're all called ARD in the Holy Quran, and it is the context of the Noble Verses that define the meanings.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.


Quote
looool Osama laying the smackdown !! Thanks for all the help you give us,you're saving lives lol.

Again, thank you dear brother for the kind words.  But it is very sad actually that the internet is spammed with anti-Islam trolls from the:

1-  Jews.
2-  Christians.
3-  Atheists.
4-  Hindus.
5-  And others.

Since you have visited so many anti-Islamic websites, blogs and videos, then I would like to encourage you to go back to these places and to start responding to them with the ample and thorough responses that we give you here.  This also goes to all of the brothers and sisters who read this message.  There are a lot of Muslims and sincere ones from the non-Muslims who are misled by the infidels.  Please help change this for the sake of Allah Almighty's Truth, insha'Allah.

May Allah Almighty bless you.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on September 29, 2016, 06:00:43 AM
@Submit akhi i remember watching Noaman ali khan saying that judgement day will be here on the earth we live in. We'll all be resurrected and the earth like zombies and the earth will stretch so much but i forgot the part after.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on September 29, 2016, 06:19:48 AM
[014:048]  The day will come when this earth will be substituted with a new DIFFERENT غير earth, and also the heavens, and everyone will be brought before GOD, the One, the Supreme.

‏14:48 يوم تبدل الارض غير الارض والسماوات وبرزوا لله الواحد القهار

Visit: www.answering-christianity.com/earth.htm


The problem today with many Muslim dawa givers is that they're not well versed in the Glorious Quran.  Be careful from such people.  Always go to someone who is well versed in the Glorious Quran, especially the ARABIC ONE!

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Omar Ahmed on October 02, 2016, 12:51:11 PM
Just a quick question, did prophet Muhammad pbuh know that the Earth was round or did he think it was flat??
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on October 02, 2016, 01:11:38 PM
In this Hadith he certainly seems to have known this fact very well.  And this Hadith is even older than Sahih Bukhari:

(http://www.answering-christianity.com/sun_rises_and_sun_sets.png)


It is important to know that Imam Bukhari and others have declared that they have discarded thousands of Hadiths:

www.islamic-awareness.org/Hadith/bukhari.html

This is to keep their volumes as simple and manageable as possible.  So it is quite possible that the Prophet spoke about the earth being spherical, and the Glorious Quran certainly did, and people just dismissed them as nonsense.  I have covered your question in great details at:

www.answering-christianity.com/egg-shaped_earth.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: Ramihs97 on October 02, 2016, 03:48:42 PM
I remember Watt. Criticising that muhammad must've not known the earth was spherical.

Is that hadith sahih ? What numbers ?

This is ground-breaking evidence.
Title: Re: Supposed "Flat earth verses" and judgement day.
Post by: QuranSearchCom on August 28, 2019, 04:19:02 PM
Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, didn't know about the shape of the earth or the Universe, except what Allah Almighty has given him.  Now the Hadiths were not all collected.  So it is quite possible that Allah Almighty did tell the Prophet about the shape of the earth, but the Hadiths collections did not write it down.

Either way, Allah Almighty made the Glorious Quran be independent from Prophet Muhammad.  The Quran makes it clear that Prophet Muhammad did not understand everything about the Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/prophet_muhammad_did_not_know_everything_about_quran.htm


Allah Almighty also made it clear that He will enable the latter generations of mankind to see the Gloriosu Quran's Miracles:

www.answering-christianity.com/sci_prophecy.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links


Those who come from Bible background have a difficult time comprehending Islam and Islam's Miracles.  They're used to man-made corrupt stories and books:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac6.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah