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Messages - Al Masihi

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Osama I am currently showing your disrespectful and foul mouth to all the christians, agnostics, and atheists. Argue like a sane person not like a five year old, secondly Banu Hanifah and Banu Tamim were already muslims at the time of the apostasy wars. Bukhari isn't trustworthy you'd better tell that to the whole islamic world, Bukhari supposedly has isnaad aswell. The false prophets were defeated due to islamic military victories not by winning the hearts of the people. This first of all has nothing to do with the bible so stop trying to change the argument.

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Your insults are extremely childish and laughable. And Firstly I'm not talking about the bible but the Quran so stop trying to change to subject by attacking the bible, its pathetic. Mohammed as Al Tabari and other islamic scholars note. We also see that the story couldn’t have been invented by non-Muslims; for if non-Muslims had invented the story, Muslims would have exposed the story’s origin, instead of defending it in their earliest historical works.Bukhari too confirms that after Muhammad recited Surah 53 the Quraysh accepted Muhammad and prayed with him:

Muhammad recited Suraht-an-Najm (53) and prostrated while reciting it and all the people prostrated and a man amongst the people took a handful of stones or earth and raised it to his face and said, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him killed as a non-believer. Bukhari 2.019. Number 176; see also Nr 173)

Narrated Ibn Abbas: The Prophet ... prostrated while reciting An-Najm (Surah 53) and with him prostrated the Muslims, the pagans (Quraysh), the jinns, and all human beings. (Bukhari, 2.019, Number 177).

Where is your proof that the best poets couldn't beat the Quran, the Quran...?

ow the apostle was anxious for the welfare of his people, wishing to attract them as far as he could. It has been mentioned that he longed for a way to attract them ... (and) Satan, when he (Muhammad) was meditating upon it, and desiring to bring it (sc. reconciliation) to his people, put upon his tongue "these are the exalted Gharaniq[6] whose intercession is approved". (Ibn Ishaq, pp. 165-166)

This is what is meant by the phrase, the Satanic Verses; they were words that Muhammad spoke from Satan and his own desire. The Islamic accounts then say that the angel Gabriel rebuked Muhammad for what he had said:

Then Gabriel came to the apostle and said , "What have you done, Muhammad? You have read to these people something I did not bring you from God and you have said what He did not say to you." (Ibn Ishaq, p. 166)

Then Muhammad confessed: I ascribed to Allah, what He had not said. (Ibn Sa'd, vol. 1, p. 237)
I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken. (Al-Tabari, vol. 6, p. 111)

Now the verse became:

Have you considered El-Lat and El-'Uzza and Manat the third, the other? What, have you males, and He females? That were indeed an unjust division. They are naught but names yourselves have named, and your fathers; God has sent down no authority touching them. (Qur'an 53:19-23, Arberry). Please read as well (Tafsir al-Jalalayn)

al-Bukhari, Islam’s most trusted authority, confirms certain details of the story that only make sense if Muhammad really did deliver the Satanic Verses. According to Bukhari,

The Prophet performed a prostration when he finished reciting Suraht an-Najm [Surah 53], and all the Muslims and Al-Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah and in His Messenger Muhammad) and jinn and human beings prostrated along with him. (4862)

Though Bukhari understandably omits the embarrassing reason for the prostration of the pagans, he inadvertently confirms the account given by Ibn Ishaq and the others, who faithfully reported that the pagans bowed down because Muhammad spoke favourably of their gods. Muslims must account for Surah 22:52, which, again, declares that all God’s prophets received revelations from Satan—a verse so preposterous that it could only have been offered to the Muslim community as an absurd explanation for something like the Satanic Verses.

The only conceivable reason the pagans would bow down in honour of Surah 53 is that the Surah originally supported paganism, and this is exactly what our earliest historical records claim. Thus, Muhammad, in a moment of weakness, gave into temptation and actively promoted polytheism by delivering a revelation from Satan.

This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari. The Hadith and Qur’an also contain direct references. Additionally several other Islamic scholars on Hadith (traditions) support the event's occurrence.

Mohammed later turning on the idols just means when he realised he couldn't win them over by accepting their gods he'd win them over by beating them in a war. Mohammed at the time was also yearning to be reaccepted by his people. The council of Nicaea wasn't even about the bible it was about the nature of Jesus Christ, and trying to solve a dispute between two parties ( Athanasius and Arius). If the Arabs were so impressed then why did they always laugh at Mohammed and reject his message and in regards to Arabs don't hold on to a false prophets words for long your right, they don't, ever heard of the Apostasy wars when most of Arabia left Islam before being forced back into it or paying Jizyah. The miracle of the Quran being language means nothing its just an excuse to explain why Mohammed had no miracles. Your trying tom explain the word. What arab christians are embracing Islam more and more Arabs leave Islam when actually understanding the Quran, ever heard of Christian Prince either, I saw your debate with him on Paltalk and I gotta say it didn't go well for you Osama. Your article on the challenge of the Quran explains nothing, it's just you trying to overcomplicate a simple verse which says produce a Surah like it unless the Quran which you claim to be perfect makes no sense.

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The verse you provided doesn't imply the physical corruption of the Torah or Bible it just warns those who attempt to make their own books, i said bring me a verse which says the physical books are corrupted and no longer in original form. Infact no verse in the Quran does, unless you can bring me one which says the Torah and Bible are muharaf the arabic word for corrupted but strangely this word never appears in the Quran. You calling it hogwash doesn't change the fact it records a verse Mohammed supposedly said, scholars of the 7th and 8th century didn't deny this verse and even believed it at one point. Attracting millions to something means nothing even communists could do that. Hindus and Zoroastrians say the same about their books again it means nothing, Islam uses the same arguments and claims as any other religion, nothing special about it. Either way many people once believed and some still believe the satanic verses to be a real revelation Mohammed recited at one point. Quran says produce a Surah like it it doesn't give regulations on how the Surah should be.

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I don't think there's actually an example in history when an organism actuslly changed into a different type of organism.

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Look through the link yourself and answer my claim. However don't try to change what the Quran says, produce a Surah like it.

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The links refute nothing nor have the answers the produce the Surah like it one try's to put words into the Quran and explain the challenge in a way that the author knows it's a contradictory challenge, the satanic verses link seems to pathetically rant on the Bible and seems to be poorly written, and the third one seems to be make up conspiracy theories about zionists and Christians which I wouldn't bother reading.

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I'm not asking about the Bible I'm talking about the Quran. Ironically it shows how you try to deflect the question in order to spare yourself from answering by attacking the Bible. What if I was not Christian and I asked you this? Quran says bring a Surah like this if you say it's fabricated then people already did.

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The greatest challenge to all Muslims, is the satanic verses. This one event which until now shakes the very foundations of Islam the satanic verses, Mohammed according to all the great and ancient scholars of Islam (Al Tabari, Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Saad, Waqidi, Bukhari, and many more) preached that Allat, Manat and Al Uzza pagan goddess could intercede on behalf of Allah and as soon as Mohammeds pagan enemies heard this they reconciled with him for a brief while and prostrated with him. But as soon as Mohammed revealed this revelation Jebreil (Gabriel) came down and told Mohammed that he had made a grave mistake and Mohammed now corrected his earlier revelation by condemning the polytheism of his people. Many Muslims will say this is a fake account but let's go to the Quran don't Muslims always bring us the challenge to produce something like the Quran well no need to because if this is a fabricated event then that means someone was able to conjure up a false Quranic Surah which would technically mean Allah lied since he said no one can make something like the Quran. So Muslims will either have to choose one of the following:
1. Mohammed said the satanic verses and Islam is false since it kind of destroys the whole concept of Tawheed in Islam.
2. Mohammed did not say this and this is fabricated and the Quran is false since Allah lied when he said no one can produce something like the Quran
So clearly we can conclude that an answer for this question will have be chosen from one of the following..
PS sorry for the long piece of writing tried to shorten it as much as possible.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: I'm new here
« on: March 10, 2018, 04:58:43 AM »
Ps I accidentally posted the topic twice sorry.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / I'm new here
« on: March 10, 2018, 04:56:21 AM »
I'm a Christian from the Middle East originally born Muslim but I decided to embrace Christianity after long thinking. I'm hoping to have friendly discussions here without any insults thanks to all.

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