Author Topic: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?  (Read 14501 times)

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Offline mclinkin94

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The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« on: August 13, 2013, 12:28:11 AM »
"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?" 6:114

"You will find that the sunna of Allah is the only sunna" (33:62....35:43.....48:23) --The ONLY sunna!

"These are God's revelations that We recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6
-What hadith other than God's do we believe?

"Which hadith, other than this (Quran), do they uphold?" 77:50
-Which Hadith other than the Quran do you uphold?

"These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?" 45:6

"Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless hadith, and thus divert others from the path of God without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution." 31:6

"God has revealed herein the best hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways." 39:23

"Let them produce a hadith like this, if they are truthful." 52:34

"Therefore, let Me deal with those who reject this hadith; we will lead them on whence they never perceive." 68:44

^All of these verses are clearly pointing that the Quran is the ONLY hadith to follow! The ONLY sunna to follow? So how can we accept Hadiths that slightly contradict the Quran? How?

All of the hadiths that make our beloved prophet (pbuh) look bad even the authentic ones! How can we say we are to follow them? The Quran prohibits it. The prophet himself (according to those hadiths) said NOT to:

"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim )

Offline Black Muslim

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #1 on: August 13, 2013, 04:44:57 AM »
What a farce and a horrible lack of knowledge in Arabic AND Islam . It seems that anybody now can explain however he wants of anything he wants ! And as some can see , these signs are translated differently to serve the purpose of abandoning work with the sayings of the prophet peace upon him . For example , it should say :
"Then let them produce a statement like it, if they should be truthful."
And you can see any other translation here and you won't find them like this :
http://quran.com/52/34

Now let's look at what this person thinks is evidence to what they say
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"Shall I seek other than God as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?"
And what's your evidence here ? Allah is the one to put the laws for us . Did we say something else ? If you think that the sayings of the prophet peace upon him are only his own opinions then you're horribly wrong ! And the noble Quran is proof :
53:1-4 By the star when it descends, Your companion [Muhammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. It is not but a revelation revealed,

And through this one fact , taking these signs and twisting their meanings becomes a big failure . But when we look at the Mexican drama of :
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So how can we accept Hadiths that slightly contradict the Quran? How?
First of all , provoking the emotions of others means nothing . Either evidence or 0 (Zero) . And from experience , anything that these people don't like becomes a contradiction . Lady Aisha clearly says that the prophet peace upon him married her when she was 9 . But because the slaves of Europe and America don't want to upset them they go "This is a lie ! End of the story !" . As if they are to judge us while they don't mind for an 8 years old to have sex . But MARRIAGE is a crime !

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All of the hadiths that make our beloved prophet (pbuh) look bad even the authentic ones! How can we say we are to follow them? The Quran prohibits it.
Correction "All the sayings which make the west upset , how can we say we are to follow them ?" . More accurate , don't you think ?!

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The prophet himself (according to those hadiths) said NOT to:
"Do not write down anything of me except the Quran. Whoever writes other than that should delete it" (Ahmed, Vol. 1, page 171.....also Sahih Muslim )
If you bothered learn a little about the science of Hadith - O one who has no shame or dignity - you would have known of another one where he says it is ok after this one . He had reasons to ban it at first but not later . And because I don't know how to find that one in English I'll just say that .

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #2 on: August 13, 2013, 07:33:10 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum,

Source: http://www.islamqa.com/en/604

Question:


Why do we have to follow the sunnah of the prophet Muhammad and not just follow the quraan ?
Why do we have to follow a specific Mathab?


Praise be to Allaah.

The first question may appear strange and somewhat surprising to committed, practising Muslims. How can something which is so obviously one of the bases of Islaam become a matter for discussion and debate? But since the question has been asked, we will present, with the help of Allaah, the principles and bases of the importance of the Sunnah, the obligation to follow it and the ruling concerning those who reject it. By so doing, we will also refute the doubters and the misguided group who call themselves “Qur’aaniyyeen” (the Qur’aan has nothing to do with them!) In sha Allaah this discussion will be of benefit to everyone who wants to understand the truth of the matter.

Proof of the importance of the Sunnah

(1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:

(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet  (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet  (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet  (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]

(c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65]

(d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24]

(e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example:

(a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).

Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet  (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).

(b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah  (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah).

(3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah.

Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah  (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.

(4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah.

The fact that the Prophet  (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions.

The ruling concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are kaafirs, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion.

As regards your second question, about whether a Muslim is required to follow a particular madhhab, the answer is that he does not have to. For the average “rank and file” Muslim, his madhhab is that of his mufti or the scholar whom he consults for religious verdicts; he must ask those pious scholars whom he trusts for opinions when necessary. If a person has enough knowledge to distinguish which evidence and opinion is stronger, then he must follow the scholarly opinion which has the strongest support from the Qur’an and Sunnah. It is acceptable for a Muslim to follow one of the four well-known madhhabs, on the condition that he understands that the truth in any given issue may lie with another madhhab, in which case he must ignore his own madhhab’s opinion and follow the truth. The Muslim’s aim is to follow the truth that is in accordance with the Qur’an and Sunnah. The madhhabs of fiqh are only a means of reaching ahkaam (rules) based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah, they are not Qur’aan and Sunnah.

We ask Allaah to show us the truth and help us to follow it, and to show us falsehood and help us to avoid it. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid


Offline mclinkin94

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2013, 12:56:14 PM »
Yes, I agree the Quran tells us that Muhammad didn't say anything unless Allah wanted him too. Okay. But how do we know the hadiths are what the prophet said? Muhammad didn't say anything from his own tongue, sure, but the people who wrote the hadiths probably did. We have seen many hadiths that clearly contradict the Quran. That tells us a lot.

Millions of Muslims all over the world have been brought up to believe that the collections of hadith by Bukhari and Moslim provide the authentic words and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. These two collections have been labelled "sahih" (authentic). The majority of these hadith portray a chain of narrators in a chinese whispers fashion attributing sayings to the Prophet (e.g. A said that B said that C said ....... that G said, that the Prophet said). Often the chain extends to seven names or even more, yet for some reason the hadith advocates still deemed these hadith to be the authentic and genuine sayings of the Prophet! With an extremely naive type of logic. It is assumed that every person in the chain, not only was totally honest, but that he had a super human memory to enable him to narrate accurately incidents that took place one hundred or two hundred years earlier.! How did they come to this conclusion?


Offline Black Muslim

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2013, 05:06:11 PM »
Who's this man named "Muhammad" ? Your friend ? Maybe your brother ? Behave when you talk about the noblest of mankind , prophet Muhammad all peace and blessings upon him .

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Okay. But how do we know the hadiths are what the prophet said? Muhammad didn't say anything from his own tongue, sure, but the people who wrote the hadiths probably did. We have seen many hadiths that clearly contradict the Quran. That tells us a lot.

Contradiction my foot ! Just because you couldn't understand it then it doesn't mean it's wrong . Don't think that you discovered what people through 1400 years didn't discover . There is a whole science called "Science of Hadith" . How much do you know about it ? How do you declare if one saying is correct or not ? And here's a note : There is a type of Hadith called "Maoduu" , it means "Fabricated" . There are ways to know a fabricated saying before you were even born ! The difference is that they don't just say "All hadith is invalid" like you .

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Millions of Muslims all over the world have been brought up to believe that the collections of hadith by Bukhari and Moslim provide the authentic words and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. These two collections have been labelled "sahih" (authentic).

Yes , and there is a reason for that . Because those two were the most strict and accurate among the scholars . You need to understand something : The sayings in Bukhari and Muslim are not authorized because they were told by them . No , Bukhari and Muslim gained this status because what they told was the most accurate among the scholars . The evidence is that even in these two there are around 20 weak sayings which were deemed so due to the science of Hadith , not due to personal preference .

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The majority of these hadith portray a chain of narrators in a chinese whispers fashion attributing sayings to the Prophet (e.g. A said that B said that C said ....... that G said, that the Prophet said). Often the chain extends to seven names or even more, yet for some reason the hadith advocates still deemed these hadith to be the authentic and genuine sayings of the Prophet!

Uh huh . So mister genius here - who doesn't know the first thing in the science of Hadith - thinks this is Chinese whisper simply because he couldn't understand ! And I still don't see what's your objection about the chain going to 6 or 7 - let them be 100 ! - making it a wrong way ! You have a better way maybe ?

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With an extremely naive type of logic. It is assumed that every person in the chain, not only was totally honest, but that he had a super human memory to enable him to narrate accurately incidents that took place one hundred or two hundred years earlier.! How did they come to this conclusion?

Maybe , just maybe , when you stop putting words in people's mouths you'll see what it really is ! For the 9476349 time : There is a whole science for Hadith ! It investigates about every single man in the chain . It investigates if he met the one he claims heard it from and if honest or not and whatsoever . If you think that this way is "Extremely naive" then just throw ALL history in the dumb because you'll never find a more accurate way than this .

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2013, 07:20:39 PM »
Who's this man named "Muhammad" ? Your friend ? Maybe your brother ? Behave when you talk about the noblest of mankind , prophet Muhammad all peace and blessings upon him .

Quote
Okay. But how do we know the hadiths are what the prophet said? Muhammad didn't say anything from his own tongue, sure, but the people who wrote the hadiths probably did. We have seen many hadiths that clearly contradict the Quran. That tells us a lot.

Contradiction my foot ! Just because you couldn't understand it then it doesn't mean it's wrong . Don't think that you discovered what people through 1400 years didn't discover . There is a whole science called "Science of Hadith" . How much do you know about it ? How do you declare if one saying is correct or not ? And here's a note : There is a type of Hadith called "Maoduu" , it means "Fabricated" . There are ways to know a fabricated saying before you were even born ! The difference is that they don't just say "All hadith is invalid" like you .

Quote
Millions of Muslims all over the world have been brought up to believe that the collections of hadith by Bukhari and Moslim provide the authentic words and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. These two collections have been labelled "sahih" (authentic).

Yes , and there is a reason for that . Because those two were the most strict and accurate among the scholars . You need to understand something : The sayings in Bukhari and Muslim are not authorized because they were told by them . No , Bukhari and Muslim gained this status because what they told was the most accurate among the scholars . The evidence is that even in these two there are around 20 weak sayings which were deemed so due to the science of Hadith , not due to personal preference .

Quote
The majority of these hadith portray a chain of narrators in a chinese whispers fashion attributing sayings to the Prophet (e.g. A said that B said that C said ....... that G said, that the Prophet said). Often the chain extends to seven names or even more, yet for some reason the hadith advocates still deemed these hadith to be the authentic and genuine sayings of the Prophet!

Uh huh . So mister genius here - who doesn't know the first thing in the science of Hadith - thinks this is Chinese whisper simply because he couldn't understand ! And I still don't see what's your objection about the chain going to 6 or 7 - let them be 100 ! - making it a wrong way ! You have a better way maybe ?

Quote
With an extremely naive type of logic. It is assumed that every person in the chain, not only was totally honest, but that he had a super human memory to enable him to narrate accurately incidents that took place one hundred or two hundred years earlier.! How did they come to this conclusion?

Maybe , just maybe , when you stop putting words in people's mouths you'll see what it really is ! For the 9476349 time : There is a whole science for Hadith ! It investigates about every single man in the chain . It investigates if he met the one he claims heard it from and if honest or not and whatsoever . If you think that this way is "Extremely naive" then just throw ALL history in the dumb because you'll never find a more accurate way than this .

Ok, brothers. Can you give more info of the science of hadiths? I am very skeptical of them. Some of them contradict reality and it does not sound like something Allah/Muhammad would say. Have you ever done an activity in grade school where you whisper a story the teacher told you to the next person and the chain goes on. How often is the final transmission the same as the first one?


Offline Black Muslim

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #9 on: August 14, 2013, 03:10:53 AM »
Enough with the jokes and comparing sand to gold . Now , I admit that I don't know that much about the science of Hadith except a few of the very basics . But I don't just call it "Chinese whisper" just because I don't know ! In this science , every important detail about men and women in any chain are gathered , a lot of things can make someone unreliable , like having a bad memory for age or anything else . And keep in mind that if someone doesn't have the ability to describe exactly what happened then he's not reliable . Another thing to know is that the unknown "Majhuul" is immediately called unreliable . And if someone from Iraq claims he heard something from another in Egypt then they are to investigate if he ever left his hometown or if that man met him in it , otherwise the chain is deemed weak right away . Another example is that when someone claims to have heard from another who died before he was born , well , you don't need to be a genius ! You need to know that gathering Hadith was a very strict process . Every last word in a saying was checked over and over to see if true .

And let me ask you something : If you hate Hadith that much , why believe there was ever a man called "Muhammad" ? You want us to abandon our history so how will you ever know that a thing ever happened in the past ? How can you ever know that there was ever a migration ? How can you ever know there were battles with the Arabian tribes or Jews or anyone for the matter ?

Discarding Hadith just because "It makes us look bad" means to discard history .

Offline ThatMuslimGuy

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Re: The Quran tells us not to follow Muhammad's Hadiths?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2013, 07:14:07 AM »
Yes, I agree the Quran tells us that Muhammad didn't say anything unless Allah wanted him too. Okay. But how do we know the hadiths are what the prophet said? Muhammad didn't say anything from his own tongue, sure, but the people who wrote the hadiths probably did. We have seen many hadiths that clearly contradict the Quran. That tells us a lot.

Millions of Muslims all over the world have been brought up to believe that the collections of hadith by Bukhari and Moslim provide the authentic words and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. These two collections have been labelled "sahih" (authentic). The majority of these hadith portray a chain of narrators in a chinese whispers fashion attributing sayings to the Prophet (e.g. A said that B said that C said ....... that G said, that the Prophet said). Often the chain extends to seven names or even more, yet for some reason the hadith advocates still deemed these hadith to be the authentic and genuine sayings of the Prophet! With an extremely naive type of logic. It is assumed that every person in the chain, not only was totally honest, but that he had a super human memory to enable him to narrate accurately incidents that took place one hundred or two hundred years earlier.! How did they come to this conclusion?

To know if Hadith are trustworthy or Authentic you need to study the science of Hadith.

Read this book i found it really good. Usool al-Hadeeth: http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Usool%20al-Hadith.pdf