Author Topic: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?  (Read 3541 times)

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Offline Ramihs97

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Is the Quran implying the universe has a roof and that pieces of it can fall on the earth ? 

1. The scientific fact is that the Earth’s atmosphere helps destroy meteorites as they approach Earth, filters harmful light rays, protects against the cold temperatures of space, and its Van Allen Belt acts like as a shield against the harmful radiation. The Earth’s atmosphere can be attributed as a protected roof.

2. The Qur’ān uses the words saqfan maḥfūẓan, which means a protect roof.
 
3. Therefore, the Qur’ān is describing the function of the Earth’s atmosphere.

 Again, the above syllogism is invalid. It doesn’t logically follow that the words saqfan maḥfūẓan, which refers to a protected roof, describes the function of the Earth’s atmosphere. This is because saqfan maḥfūẓan can also refer to a physical roof. Some interpretations of the Qur’ān include that the heaven is erected with invisible pillars, and that a fragment of the heaven or sky can fall on Earth; (see Qur’ān 13:2 and 34:9). These interpretations indicate a solid roof like structure, as confirmed by the classical exegete Ibn Kathīr who cites a scholar mentioning that “the heaven is like a dome over the earth”.[15] Therefore the words saqfan maḥfūẓan can also refer to a physical roof or dome like structure. For that reason, the above argument will only be valid if all interpretations and descriptions of saqfan maḥfūẓan describes the function of Earth’s atmosphere.

the word used in 13:2 is samawaat,shouldn't heavens be referred to as Jannah or Firdous ? If so then some proof from other surahs please.

In 34:9 Pieces of the sky implying that the sky is solid ?

link : http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/essays-articles/exploring-the-quran/does-the-quran-contain-scientific-miracles-a-new-approach/

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2016, 10:36:25 AM »
Help please?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2016, 11:08:12 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Please visit this link:  www.answering-christianity.com/ozone_layer_protecting_earth.htm

The Glorious Quran says SAMAA (singular heaven), and it usually refers to:

1-  Our atmosphere.
2-  Our immediate solar system.

For proofs on point #2, visit: www.answering-christianity.com/paint_in_space_miracle.htm


[021:032]  And WE have made the heaven السماء a roof, well-protected, yet they turn away from its Signs.
‏21:32 وجعلنا السماء سقفا محفوظا وهم عن اياتها معرضون


[055:037]  When the sky السماء disintegrates, and turns rose colored like paint.
55:37 فاذا انشقت السماء فكانت وردة كالدهان







The STUNNING Miracle:

The stunning Miracle in this is the fact that our planet earth is not just open to space.  We are not standing on an atmosphere-less planet like our moon.  The earth is shielded, closed and protected, yet invisible to the naked eye.  And Allah Almighty here said that our atmosphere (sky/heaven) is indeed a protective roof.

As to the "invisible pillars", read what Allah Almighty Said about Gravities in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/gravity_in_noble_quran.htm  Noble Verses 13:2 and many others are all covered in the article.




Noble Verse 34:9:

[034:009]  See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky السماء and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of objects from the sky كسفا من السماء to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to God (in repentance).

 ‏34:9 افلم يروا الى مابين ايديهم وماخلفهم من السماء والارض ان نشا نخسف بهم الارض او نسقط عليهم كسفا من السماء ان في ذلك لاية لكل عبد منيب

Notice the singular sky السماء.  It is referring to local asteroids that could destroy all life on earth.  We are surrounded by a belt of asteroids with trillions upon trillions of asteroids in it.  And the pounding of earth by asteroids/meteorites is an End of Times Prophecy in the Glorious Quran:

[089:021] No, of course not! (On the day) when the earth is pounded repeatedly and crushed.

‏89:21 كلا اذا دكت الارض دكا دكا


Please let me know if you have more questions.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2016, 10:46:05 PM »
I tried looking for other tafasirs about the sky being like a protected roof but all i found was Ibn Kathir that said that the sky is like a dome.. isn't that wrong?

As for Hamza.. He does raise some valid points especially in regards to atheism and existence but for him as a philosopher to say something like (If this verse meant truly meant this then all interpreters wouldve said so) Is kind of stupid.. clearly everyone is going to have a different opinion !!! and how the hell was Ibn Kathir will all due respect supposed to know what an Ozone layer was ?

Why on earth would some translators translate it to mean DOME or CANOPY !?!?!?

Also if anyone could show me where else can i find tafasirs for this specific verse cause all i have been able to find was Ibn Kathirs version saying the sky is a dome. Doesnt that clearly give an indication to a solid roof that cant be surpassed ?

Shokran

Offline submit

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2016, 09:07:01 AM »
If the some of the pillars no longer able to sustain the heavens, fragments from the heaven will drop down.
The pillars and the tracks in heavens are not solid.

Quote
It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you [can] see; then He established Himself above the Throne and
made subject the sun and the moon, each running [its course] for a specified term. He arranges [each] matter; He details
the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain (13:2)

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2016, 12:08:09 PM »
@submit it's because of saqfan mahfuzan which would give the impression of a solid like roof structure being held by pillars and pieces could fall from it


(little side note the verse also says the earth could swallow us,doesn't that imply it's roundness ? Since a flat earth couldnt really do that ?

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2016, 03:28:31 PM »
Quote
I tried looking for other tafasirs about the sky being like a protected roof but all i found was Ibn Kathir that said that the sky is like a dome.. isn't that wrong?

As for Hamza.. He does raise some valid points especially in regards to atheism and existence but for him as a philosopher to say something like (If this verse meant truly meant this then all interpreters wouldve said so) Is kind of stupid.. clearly everyone is going to have a different opinion !!! and how the hell was Ibn Kathir will all due respect supposed to know what an Ozone layer was ?

Why on earth would some translators translate it to mean DOME or CANOPY !?!?!?

Also if anyone could show me where else can i find tafasirs for this specific verse cause all i have been able to find was Ibn Kathirs version saying the sky is a dome. Doesnt that clearly give an indication to a solid roof that cant be surpassed ?

Shokran

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

Yes akhi Ramihs, the interpretation by Ibn Kathir is wrong about the protective roof being a dome, because people back then had no idea what the Ozon Layer was, and how the Universe operated.  And yes, Hamza's statement is off, and I believe he is overrated and is badly used by the desperate infidels against Islam.

As to protective roof being solid, the Glorious Quran doesn't say solid.  It says protective.  I also showed that the Noble Verse speaks about a singular Heaven, our local sky.  And I gave proofs on this above.


Also, in the link that I gave about Gravity in the Glorious Quran, I gave the link and references to the Noble Verses that speak about the Universe as the Universe of معارج (orbits, going in curvy paths in Arabic):

www.answering-christianity.com/day_layer_reveals_the_sun_brightness.wmv
www.answering-christianity.com/orbits.wmv


As to Noble Verse 13:2, it says the Heaven was raised WITHOUT PILLARS that we would see:

الله الذي رفع السماوات بغير عمد ترونها

"It is Allah Who raised up the heavens by other than بغير pillars that you see. Then, He mounted the throne and tamed the sun and the moon _ each is in motion for a specified time. He conducts His affairs and He explains His signs. Perhaps you will acknowledge the scheduled meeting with your Lord!  (The Noble Quran, 13:2)"

بغير in Arabic means WITHOUT.

بغير عمد ترونها  LITERALLY word-for-word means: "without pillars you see".

So what's keeping the Heaven is the Balance of Gravity and counter Gravity that I showed from the Glorious Quran.  And science has confirmed this.



Side Note:  As an Arab (weak in Arabic as you said before), brother Ramihs, you should know that it is not "saqfan mahfuzan".  It is saqfan mahfuTHAN.  Arabic reading of the Glorious Quran never reads as mahfuzan.  Like Dhul Qarnayn.  It is not Zhul Qarnayn.  Non-Arab Muslims pronounce the TH as Z.  The proper pronunciation of the Arabic Quran should be done at least by the Arabs.  If we lose that, then we have done the Glorious Quran a great disservice :).

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Ramihs97

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2016, 04:28:04 PM »
lol my bad i was awake for  20 hours and relied on memory haha.

youmkin 2iza katabt bel arqam a7sanli hahaha but it could confuse the other readers

Offline submit

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Re: Pillar erected skies and heaven fragments that can fall on earth ?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2016, 05:15:35 AM »
the reason Ibn Kathir used heaven like dome is due to domes do not having pillars internally and it is still raised high till it reaches God's throne as how he interpreted.

And the heaven like dome is vast as it covers sun,moon, earth and others.