Author Topic: mary trinity  (Read 2019 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline karim fattah

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
mary trinity
« on: September 25, 2017, 10:50:12 AM »
assalamu alaikum,

i  have a question on the things christian pose on mary being a part of the trinity. i always brushed it aside but lately i looked into it and had some issues with it. (i have checked links of answering christianity but havent found an answer to my questions)

1. firstly why does the quran never say the christians worship the holy spirit, it always says they worship jesus and mary, but never the holy spirit who is one of the persons in their trinity.

2. why have big scholars of islam said that the quran says the trinity consists of father jesus and mary

examples: Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

With regard to what the Qur’an says about what the Christians said, “Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)”, the commentators said that it refers to Allah, the Messiah and his mother, as Allah, may He be exalted, tells us that He will say (interpretation of the meaning): “‘O 'Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: “Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?”’” [al-Maa’idah 5:116]. Hence in the context of this passage He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“The Messiah ['Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddeeqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allah and His Books]”

[al-Maa’idah 5:75].

The most that the Messiah can be is a Messenger, and the most that his mother can be is a siddeeqah; they could never reach the level of divinity. The one proves the other (that is, the fact that they are no more than that is proof that the Messiah is not God), and this is quite clear. End quote.

Majmoo‘ al-Fataawa (2/444).

ibn kathir states they believed jesus and mary were gods, Ibn Katheer (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

The words “They both used to eat food” mean: they both needed to be nourished by food, and to expel the resulting waste products. So they were two slaves of Allah, like all other people, and they were not gods as the ignorant Christians claim. End quote. Tafseer Ibn Katheer (3/159).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) said, in the context of discussing the verses that refute the blasphemy of the Christians:

The words of Allah (interpretation of the meaning): “The Messiah ['Eesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him” [al-Maa’idah 5:75] come after the words “Surely, disbelievers are those who said: ‘Allah is the third of the three (in a Trinity)’” [al-Maa’idah 5:73], which indicates that the trinity that Allah says they believe in involves regarding the Messiah son of Maryam and his mother as two gods.

This is clear, on the basis that what is narrated from the Christians is that they believe that the divine descended upon Mary and was incarnated in the Messiah. This is in accordance with their beliefs.

Based on that, every verse in which Allah mentions their views refers to all of their groups and refers to their belief in the Trinity and the notions of the divine descending upon Mary and being incarnated in the Messiah. Thus it includes all types of Christians and all types of their blasphemy. It is not the case that every verse that speaks of them is speaking of one type, as some have suggested, and there is not one verse that speaks about the Trinity and another that speaks about the descent of the divine and incarnation. Rather Allah, may He be glorified, mentions, in every single verse referred to, the blasphemy this is common to all of them, but He describes their blasphemy is being threefold, each aspect of which implies the other two: they say that the Messiah is God, and they say that he is the son of God, and they say that God is the third of three, as they took their Messiah and his mother as gods besides the true God, one on the basis of the divine descending upon her and the other on the basis of the divine being incarnated in him. Thus it becomes clear that they believe in three gods in one. This covers all the blasphemous concepts of the Christians. End quote.

Al-Fataawa al-Kubra (6/589-590).

why would such big scholars interpret these ayat to mean that mary was part of trinity if we claim that the quran doesnt say this

3. my questions on sura 5 and the trinity and mary

it starts at chapter 5:72, Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allah is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allah, then Allah has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers) there are no helpers.

so anyone who believes jesus is god goes to hell

5:73, They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. (here it speaks of trinity and says that anyone who says god is a trinity, or third of three have disbelieved)

5:74, Will they not then repent to Allah and ask His forgiveness? And Allah is Ever Forgiving, Ever-Merciful.

5:75 here my problem comes, The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.

after just mentioning the trinity the quran then mentions the messiah and mary, and with the statement they both used to eat food allah is trying to disprove both the divinity of mary and jesus. if mary was not part of the trinity according to the quran, why was not the holy spirit ever mentioned, why do these big alims like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir deduct it from the quran, and why does the quran after mentioning the trinity in verse 73 go on and disprove the divinity of both mary and jesus in 5:75. it seems as if 5:73 is speaking of three beings allah and two others, and then in 5:75 it disproves the divinity of both jesus and mary which would only be logical if they were the two in the trinity in the first place.

 Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!

So some Christians may assert from verse 75, where Mary is mentioned, that the Quran does believe that Mary was part of the Trinity. They will assert that since the Quran makes the point that both Mary and Jesus ate food, the Quran here is trying to disprove divinity from both Jesus and Mary, and with the Trinity being mentioned in verse 73, this must mean the author thought that Mary was in the Trinity.

6. next quran 5:116, And ˹on Judgment Day˺ Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you ever ask the people to worship you and your mother as gods besides Allah?” He will answer, “Glory be to You! How could I ever say what I had no right to say? If I had said such a thing, you would have certainly known it. You know what is ˹hidden˺ within me, but I do not know what is within You. Indeed, You ˹alone˺ are the Knower of all unseen.

i know this verse alone does not prove trinity, because the verse says nothing about trinitty, it just says taking mary as a god which catholics and collyrdians and marimites did. and quran 9:31 says the same message and this also doesnt mean trinity

Sahih International: They have taken their scholars and monks as lords besides Allah , and [also] the Messiah, the son of Mary. And they were not commanded except to worship one God; there is no deity except Him. Exalted is He above whatever they associate with Him.

but if we put it in the context of surah 5, 5:73-75 seems already to prove mary in the trinity, as it mentions the trinity in surah 5 , and then proceeds to disprove the divinity of mary which would only make sense if she was in the trinity oreviously mentioned also big alims like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir say this, then quran 5:116 goes on on speaking aboutt he divinity of mary.

i am having big trouble with tthis and i would love it if you could help me out

jzk khair.

Offline AMuslimDude213

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: mary trinity
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 12:42:03 PM »
One common verse that Christians always bring up is:

“And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.” [Qur'an 5:116]

Christians often argue that this verse is wrong, and the prophet Muhammad miss-understood what true Christian theology teaches. They also post this verse:

“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.” [Qur'an 4:171]

Christians then say that the prophet Muhammad did not understand the true concept of the trinity and got it wrong. I am sure most Muslims have heard this argument over and over again. In this article we will simply examine how some Christians acted towards Mary and will then compare it with the Quran to see if there are any problems.

Firstly this verse:

“O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.” [Qur'an 4:171]

Contains no errors, the verse is telling Christians to not say three, which is what they always say, three as in trinity. As we see it is wrong according to the Quran.

They also like to quote this verse as well:

“They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.” [Quran, 5:73]

They like to claim that the three being mentioned here are Mary, Jesus, and Allah; they then argue this is a wrong picture of the trinity therefore the prophet Muhammad got it wrong.

As we shall shortly see, the Quran is not in error at all regarding Mary:

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/...

“As a faithful Catholic, and later as a nun, I was devoted to Mary. The prayers and practices were so familiar. They were taught to me by sincere people. I prayed the rosary, including rosary novenas. I wore a Brown Scapular and a Miraculous Medal. (You can read about these things in the Glossary, which is Appendix C.) I visited shrines that honor Mary. I had beautiful statues of Mary. I attended special services where we prayed to Mary and recited a litany of titles honoring her. I read books about apparitions of Mary, and dreamed of visiting Lourdes and Fatima. I participated in processions honoring Mary. A statue of Mary was put on a platform that was decorated with flowers. There were poles on the platform, so that men could carry it. The men walked through the streets, carrying the statue on the platform. We walked behind the statue, singing songs in Mary’s honor.

When Pope John Paul II was shot, while the ambulance was rushing him to the hospital, the Pope was not praying to God or calling on the name of Jesus. He kept saying, over and over: "Mary, my mother!" Polish pilgrims placed a picture of Our Lady of Czestochowa on the throne where the Pope normally sat. People gathered around the picture. Vatican loudspeakers broadcasted the prayers of the rosary. When the Pope recovered, he gave Mary all the glory for saving his life, and he made a pilgrimage to Fatima to publicly thank her. (Note 4)

One popular prayer in Mary’s honor is the "Hail Holy Queen," which is known in Latin as the "Salve Regina". It is traditionally included as part of praying the rosary.

"Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary."

Alfonsus de Liguori (1696-1787) was a principal proponent of the Marianist Movement, which glorifies Mary. He wrote a book entitled "The Glories of Mary" which is famous, influential and widely read. In this book, de Liguori says that Mary was given rulership over one half of the kingdom of God; Mary rules over the kingdom of mercy and Jesus rules over the kingdom of justice. De Liguori said that people should pray to Mary as a mediator and look to her as an object of trust for answered prayer. The book even says that there is no salvation outside of Mary. Some people suggest that these views are extreme and not representative of Catholic Church teaching. However, instead of silencing de Liguori as a heretic, the Catholic Church canonized him as a saint and declared him to be a "doctor of the Church" (a person whose teachings carry weight and authority). Furthermore, his book is openly and officially promoted by the Catholic Church, and his teachings have influenced popes. (Note 9)

Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that "One can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind." (Note 10) Pope Pius IX said: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her." (Note 11)

So note how this person explains how Catholics WORSHIP Mary, and look to her as a God, I mean they put their salvation in Mary!

Now Christians may be saying well this is wrong, and that Catholics are committing blasphemy, EXACTLY! The Quran makes sure it condemns all forms of blasphemy, just because this is not the trinity everyone is familiar with does not mean the Quran cannot condemn it. Secondly, there are lots of Catholics and there have been a lot of Mary worshippers throughout history so to say this is just a minor issue is an under-statement, this is something widely practiced.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/...

Mary's Divine motherhood

Mary's Divine motherhood is based on the teaching of the Gospels, on the writings of the Fathers, and on the express definition of the Church. St. Matthew (1:25) testifies that Mary "brought forth her first-born son" and that He was called Jesus. According to St. John (1:15) Jesus is the Word made flesh, the Word Who assumed human nature in the womb of Mary. As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. Even the earliest Fathers did not hesitate to draw this conclusion as may be seen in the writings of St. Ignatius [72], St. Irenaeus [73], and Tertullian [74]. The contention of Nestorius denying to Mary the title "Mother of God" [75] was followed by the teaching of the Council of Ephesus proclaiming Mary to be Theotokos in the true sense of the word. [76]

Early writings

For the attitude of the Churches of Asia Minor and of Lyons we may appeal to the words of St. Irenaeus, a pupil of St. John's disciple Polycarp [145]; he calls Mary our most eminent advocate. St. Ignatius of Antioch, part of whose life reached back into apostolic times, wrote to the Ephesians (c. 18-19) in such a way as to connect the mysteries of Our Lord's life more closely with those of the Virgin Mary. For instance, the virginity of Mary, and her childbirth, are enumerated with Christ's death, as forming three mysteries unknown to the devil. The sub-apostolic author of the Epistle to Diognetus, writing to a pagan inquirer concerning the Christian mysteries, describes Mary as the great antithesis of Eve, and this idea of Our Lady occurs repeatedly in other writers even before the Council of Ephesus. We have repeatedly appealed to the words of St. Justin and Tertullian, both of whom wrote before the end of the second century.

As it is admitted that the praises of Mary grow with the growth of the Christian community, we may conclude in brief that the veneration of and devotion to Mary began even in the time of the Apostles.

Let us now examine the dates of those Church Fathers who held Mary in such a high honorable position, as a Goddess you could say:

St. Ignatius of Antioch

Also called Theophorus (ho Theophoros); born in

Syria, around the year 50; died at Rome between 98 and 117.

St. Irenaeus

Information as to his life is scarce, and in some measure inexact. He was born in Proconsular Asia, or at least in some province bordering thereon, in the first half of the second century; the exact date is controverted, between the years 115 and 125, according to some, or, according to others, between 130 and 142

Tertullian

His conversion was not later than the year 197, and may have been earlier. He embraced the Faith with all the ardour of his impetuous nature. He became a priest, no doubt of the Church of Carthage. Monceaux, followed by d'Ales, considers that his earlier writings were composed while he was yet a layman, and if this be so, then his ordination was about 200. His extant writings range in date from the apologetics of 197 to the attack on a bishop who is probably Pope Callistus (after 218). It was after the year 206 that he joined the Montanist sect, and he seems to have definitively separated from the Church about 211 (Harnack) or 213 (Monceaux). After writing more virulently against the Church than even against heathen and persecutors, he separated from the Montanists and founded a sect of his own. The remnant of the Tertullianists was reconciled to the Church by St. Augustine. A number of the works of Tertullian are on special points of belief or discipline. According to St. Jerome he lived to extreme old age.

Council of Ephesus

The third ecumenical council, held in 431.

So all these Church Fathers and Council which did see Mary as divine, all took place before Islam came and was revealed. Hence the Quran was merely exposing this wrong blasphemous belief of the worship of Mary, and making her into a divine being something she was not.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:57:39 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Sama

  • Hero Member
  • *****
    • View Profile
Re: mary trinity
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 01:17:49 PM »
As salaam alaykum
 
This is an important issue as it is often used by Christians to confuse Muslims and trying to make them believe Allah/Muhammad did not understand the concept of the trinity. Also many of their websites deal with this issue but many islamic websites fail to respond to it at all and so we must be aware of this argument.
 
They use two verses to support their theory:
 
O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) AND a spirit (Ruh ) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not: "three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs. (4:171)
 
and
 
And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?' " He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen). (5:116)
 
Let us deal firstly with the second verse presented above because the Christians use it to try say it is about the Trinity when the word trinity is not even present in this verse. There is no even point in them trying to use this verse to support their theory. Why?

    the word trinity doesn't exist
    this verse in the surah it is part of a narration by God which begins with surah 109 where Allah is warning the people what he will say on the day of Judgement to his messengers and then in the following verses he specifically outlines what he will say to prophet Jesus (Isa). So they often fail to take this into consideration and even look at that verse it says Allah will say. Simply put it is a warning for what the Christians are doing in the world until the day of Resurrection. As the quran is a message until the end of time this verse can also be used in the present day world as a warning to the Christians who worship Mary and Jesus. It is not specifically about any sort of trinity but rather it is about how Christians worship them on a level equal to God. But even it has been well known that in a few centuries into the emergence of Christianity this worship of Mary and Jesus specifically began to take place.

 
They will continue to try confuse us by saying but it still proves Allah doesn't understand what the Christians believe because we do not worship Mary. They of course won't admit that they worship. Well let us just leave them at that for we do not need to continue to argue with them as we know Allah is our supporter and not theirs.
But quite simply this verse is nothing to do with the trinity but rather it is about those who raised Mary and Jesus to a level of worship not allowed by Allah. So do not let them try fool any of you into believing this verse is about a trinity.
__
 

Now onto the other verse. This one is different than the one discussed previously because it actually is about the trinity since Allah warns people from saying Three. So we can allow them to use this verse in explaining their theory but their theory will still be wrong as will be shown.

 
I have highlighted certain words which are of significance in analysis. Now the Christians immediately jump to the conclusion that because Allah, Jesus and Mary is mentioned that means they are understood to be part of the trinity but they leave an important word out, the spirit. Now why do they jump over the spirit?
What we need to analyse is why Mary and the spirit is mentioned.
 
- Mary:
Like in most places of the quran her name is mentioned along with Jesus’ because he is usually referred to as the son  of Mary since he had a special birth not like other humans. So the significance in that is to remind us of his special birth and of course very often Mary’s name is mentioned alongside this since she played an important role in giving birth to him. Her name is secondly mentioned in describing how Jesus was created, i.e. God said Be and Jesus was created in her womb.So in conclusion, Mary is mentioned in order to explain the creation of Jesus. Jesus is more the subject here than Mary.
 
 
The Spirit:
What is said about the spirit? It is said it was created by Allah.
 
So to bring these two results together we find there are two beings which are the subject because both of them are being described as being created by Allah. What the verse wants to emphasise is that
(a) Jesus was created by Allah, and his special birth is outlined
(b) The spirit was created by Allah.
 
Now we already know from other parts of the quran that Mary was created by Allah just like we all were but Mary is not the subject here in relation to what Allah created. There is no emphasis on her creation here.
 
To conclude, the Christians have no evidence to prove from these verses that Mary was believed to be part of a trinity. And if they still insist on saying so they must bring a reason why Allah mentioned that he created the spirit?
 
The quran criticises any person who makes any thing or person an object of worship.
The quran makes clear that only Allah is to be worship.

-----------

Oh my God you keep referring to the bible as if the practices of Christians are consistent with the bible. The Christians have for years been following the wrong beliefs. 'Indeed God does not wrong the people at all, but it is the people who are wronging themselves' (10: 44).

 

You keep saying there is nothing in the bible about worshiping Mary - has that stopped Christians from doing this? Certainly not, they pray to her even. I have been in many Catholic Churches and in every one I was in there are statues of Mary which people pray to. How can people be so blind to not see this is idol worship: 'And among them are those who look at you. But can you guide the blind though they will not attempt to see?' (10:43). Allah has every right to mention this in the quran and of course it is something that will be said to Jesus because Jesus was the messenger during that time and he will be asked on the day of Resurrection if he told people to worship his mother which of course he didn't. He will be asked if he asked people to worship him which of course he didn't but people still do this! And how can you behave like you do not know this happens?

 

Why would Allah need to mention that Holy Spirit is not God when it is clearly stated the spirit was created by Him. Do you know how many verses in the quran there are in which Allah tells us He is the creator of everything so I suggest you read the quran more carefully. And why do you think the spirit is Gabriel?


And they ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه و سلم) concerning the Ruh (the spirit); Say: "The Ruh (the spirit) is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." (17:85).

 

You are just wishing some things to be there that are not there. You think your belief in the trinity is protected and not criticised by the quran you are so wrong. Allah criticises many times in the quran beliefs such as yours without referring to Mary or Jesus or a Spirit. You think your belief in Jesus being the son of God is safe from criticism - it isn't.

'they have said 'God has taken a son'. Exalted is He, He is the Free of need. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. You have no authority for this claim. Do you say about God that which you do not know?' (10:68).

 

I really don't care if you think it is disrespectful to call Jesus the son of Mary, you are blind to see how insulting it is to call Jesus God himself! You can never protect your beliefs from Allah, He knows what is in your heart and you can try to convince us all you want but it will never change the fact that you are making lies against your Creator.
--------
The worship of Mary which Redeemed seems to believe doesn't happen:

 

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_idolaters.jpg

---

This is exactly the attitude that the quran criticises. You said you know some Christians worship Mary and you agree that it is idoltary but then you say they do not say she is god. Might as well be talking to wall here if you don't realise how silly such a statement is. We are supposed to worship God alone that is the point Islam makes, we are not to worship angels, prophets, jinn, stars, the moon etc etc only Allah. Mary herself is even called the mother of god by some christians!! How blind they are to reason and truth.

 

I don't know why you keep bringing up the bible, to me its pointless since I don't believe the bible you read today is the original bible. Then you keep saying Islam is a reaction to Catholics not the bible - I have already told you we agree that the original bible never had anything about Jesus or Mary or any spirit being God or there being any trinity but since the Christians distorted the bible and since the Christians continue to this day to follow these believes the quran will continue until the end of time to criticise these. Allah knows what He revealed and what He didn't reveal, He knows who follows the scripture and who doesn't. If the Christians had followed the original teachings of Jesus there would be no need for Allah to criticise them.

 

How can we even talk about this topic when you keep mentioning 3 where it is not mentioned? Jesus will be the one who will testify against you on the day of Judgement. He will be the one to tell you he never said such awful things, that he never said he was to be worshipped, that he never said his mother was to prayed to as if she was a god. But unfortunately you haven't opened your heart to the truth. Stubbornness is a bad trait.

 

And honestly from your posts on this forum it doesn't seem you want to genuinely learn about Islam but rather you want to debate about Islam so that you can promote the belief of Christianity in between.

( By ParadiseLost from https://www.gawaher.com/topic/740974-does-the-quran-misunderstand-the-trinity/)



Offline karim fattah

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
    • View Profile
Re: mary trinity
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 05:49:37 PM »
Salam,

Thanka for the answers but i dont believe my questions have been answered.

1. Why does it never say that they worship the holy spirit
2. Nobody answere the quran 5:73-75  part where in 5:73 it speaks of a trinity and just 2 verses later they clarify in 5:75 that jesus and mary are not actually god which would only make sense if they are the persons of the trinity.

3. Why have big scholars like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir said that mary was 1 of the 3 persons in the trinity.

Khair

Offline QuranSearchCom

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Islam is the Divine Truth!
    • View Profile
Re: mary trinity
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 10:06:52 PM »
Wa Alaikum As'salam,

1. Why does it never say that they worship the holy spirit?

The Holy Spirit works by the Command of Allah Almighty, and it is responsible for blowing into our bodies from Its Spirit to make us alive.  It is not Allah Almighty or part of Allah Almighty.  It works by the Command of Allah Almighty, and it belongs to the World of Command:

www.answering-christianity.com/holy_spirit.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/quran_creator_or_created.htm



2. Nobody answere the quran 5:73-75  part where in 5:73 it speaks of a trinity and just 2 verses later they clarify in 5:75 that jesus and mary are not actually god which would only make sense if they are the persons of the trinity.

There were other trinities in the pagans' world.  There are even multiple trinities in the Christians' world itself:



This is the "Holy Family Trinity".  The Priest's "tallest (middle) finger represents the father, the next  tallest (index), the mother, the  small thumb, the child."  For more, visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/spirit1_rebuttal.htm

There is also the Hindu trinity is of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.  And others.  So here Allah Almighty is telling all mankind do not say THREE EVER to any trinity!  They are all false pagan beliefs. 



3. Why have big scholars like ibn taymiyyah and ibn kathir said that mary was 1 of the 3 persons in the trinity?

Because May is part of the "Holy Family Trinity" pagan belief.  See the link above.


Take care,
Osama Abdallah