Author Topic: A doubt  (Read 3641 times)

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Offline AMuslimDude213

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A doubt
« on: September 25, 2017, 07:42:52 PM »
Since this is my last day,I will be going through Abdullah Sameer articles and trying to refute his arguments so


<Infidel's link removed>

Can you disprove this?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:49:38 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2017, 07:45:23 PM »
And this

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« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 09:49:52 PM by QuranSearchCom »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2017, 09:50:46 PM »
Post his arguments that are bothering you here, and we'll thoroughly refute them for you, insha'Allah.  This also shows how serious and/ore genuine you are or are not.  Don't just dump URLs of infidels here.  Please respect the site's policy, brother.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2017, 10:09:21 PM »
Sorry,I was sleepy when I was doing that,okay so anyways I was making a whole article to publish online to refute him completely,so I really wanted people to review the articles,these are refutation to all his core issues he listed on his sites,etc,I have also found another inconsistency,I was about to quit debating,but I returned since this issue was bothering until while refuting his articles I realized hes just copying mostly from WikiIslam.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2017, 10:15:45 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

Just post questions and/or points, and wait for the response.  We don't need to spread these infidels' sites here.

Jazaka Allah Khayr.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2017, 10:29:36 PM »
So basically my question was that he claimed that men have the superiority over women according to hadith and women cannot divorce men even if the men are abusive,so I really needed an answer to this claim.

“Divorce is the right of the one who seizes the leg (i.e., consummates the marriage)” i.e., the husband.
(Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 2081; classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel, 2041).

The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Any woman who asks her husband for a divorce with no reason, the fragrance of Paradise will be forbidden to her.” Narrated by Ahmad (21874), Abu Dawood (2226) and al-Tirmidhi (1187); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Irwa’ al-Ghaleel (2035).

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2017, 01:47:06 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum,

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/divorce.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


A woman can almost always get herself divorced from her husband if their marriage is not working out.  Those who divorce carelessly though bring sin upon themselves.  This is supported in the Glorious Quran.

The man can directly divorce his wife directly, while the woman would have to get through the Islamic Court.

Brother, why is any of this troubling to you? LOL.  Of course men are superior to women in Islam.  They are the ones in charge, and they get double the inheritance to be able to take care of their parents, wives, children, and widowed or divorced sisters if they're in need, and they're not getting support from their former spouses.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 11:18:24 AM »
Of course men are superior to women in Islam.

If by this statement the author meant that men are superior to women in all areas of life then I take issue with such a concept. It is true that Islam places the financial responsibilities on men of the family and by default envisages a hierarchal family structure but this is quite incomplete evidence to make the simple and all-encompassing argument that men are superior to women. If this wasn’t the author’s intention then I suggest that it would be further helpful to use more careful wording.

Regarding divorce, as far as I’ve read, the husband can be bound by pretty much any condition or stipulation by his wife through their pre-marital agreement. Many scholars have no issue with the inclusion of a clause to allow women to directly divorce their husbands without having to go through any courts.

In fact, some countries like Pakistan have such a clause by default included in the legal matrimony contract. Because of mainly cultural reasons a lot of times it doesn’t work like it is supposed to, but in cases where culture and government work as they should, it wouldn’t be incorrect to say that at the time of marriage, the bride herself decides whether to keep or give up her right to divorce her husband.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 01:41:47 PM »
Quote
If by this statement the author meant that men are superior to women in all areas of life then I take issue with such a concept.

To the author who wrote this, I forgot his name :), I tell him that in Islam women are not allowed to be:

1-  Imams.
2-  Judges.
3-  Caliphs.
4-  Teachers to stranger men.

And on and on.  Also, the woman is bound to her husband's rule in the house:

1-  She can't leave the house except by his permission.
2-  She can't invite anyone to the house except by his permission.
3-  She can't work outside the house except by his permission.

And Allah Almighty in the Glorious Quran directly ordered all wives to be obedient to their husbands:

[004:034] Men are (appointed) in charge (and the caretakers) of women _ (they are held responsible for maintaining the women physically, financially, and emotionally) _ because Allah has given the one precedence over the other. Also, because they spend their means (to support the women). Thus, the virtuous women are obedient قانتات. They guard the rights of their husbands in their absence _ (the right) that Allah has upheld. If you perceive defiance (and disloyalty) from your women, admonish them, (then) keep them apart from your bed, and (then, as a last resort) beat them. If they relent and obey, do not seek the means to harass them. Of course, Allah is the most High, the Greatest!


Now none of this means that the woman is INFERIOR to man.  No, both are equal.  But the captain of the ship that she's in is the man, not the woman.  The one who wears the pants in the house is the man, not the woman.  The lord of the house is the man, not the woman.  The decision maker in the house is the man, not the woman.  Every Muslim, however, is Commanded by Allah Almighty to consult all the people around him before taking any decision:

[042:038]  Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation وامرهم شورى بينهم; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance;


Even Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was Commanded to consult with Muslims:

[003:159]  It is part of the Mercy of God that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for (God's) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment) وشاورهم في الامر. Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in God. For God loves those who put their trust (in Him).

For ample more details, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac9.htm#links


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 04:28:29 PM »
I would say there is a significant difference of opinion on this. I have seen Muslim women being “imams”, “judges”, leaders of Muslim majority nations, “teachers to stranger men” and Muslim scholars not having an issue with such state of affairs. Even if women cannot be imams for male congregations, I haven’t seen Muslim scholars having many problems with women being imams for female congregations. Assuming “stranger men” means non-Mahram men, then if I’m not mistaken, wasn’t Lady Aisha a prominent teacher whose students included many Sahabah too?

Furthermore, regarding “the woman is bound to her husband's rule in the house”, I have an issue with using the word “bound”. A jailed prisoner is bound to remain in the prison because he/she has no choice. On the other hand, a wife has the choice to take a divorce and leave such restrictions behind. The word “bound” should apply only to a choice-less person.

Additionally, as I mentioned above “the husband can be bound by pretty much any condition or stipulation by his wife through their pre-marital agreement.” By such conditions, if the woman doesn’t want to give up her right to free movement or whatever there is a way for her to do so.


Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2017, 06:47:37 PM »
Sorry, just to clarify.  Women can't be imams to grown men, either strangers or relatives.  MY OWN MOTHER who gave me birth can not be my Imam in Prayer!  They can be imams (leaders of Prayer) to other women and young boys.



Quote
Furthermore, regarding “the woman is bound to her husband's rule in the house”, I have an issue with using the word “bound”. A jailed prisoner is bound to remain in the prison because he/she has no choice. On the other hand, a wife has the choice to take a divorce and leave such restrictions behind. The word “bound” should apply only to a choice-less person.

So either she obeys her husband or seek divorce?  Why are you advocating destruction of marriages, and for a wife to become NASHIZ (one who disobeys her husband and angers Allah Almighty)?  Why is it an issue to you that a woman be under the rule of her husband?  Does not Allah Almighty also call the husband THE LORD of the wife:

[012:025] And they both raced to the door, and in the struggle she tore his shirt from behind, and they found her lord at the door. She said to him, `What shall be the punishment of one who intended evil to thy wife, save imprisonment or a grievous chastisement ?'



Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 11:09:02 PM »
The reddit post says pretty much what I meant. There is a difference of opinion. As the IslamiCity article mentions:
Quote
Some people refer to the Hadith of Um Warqah who was allowed by the Prophet -peace be upon him- to lead the Salat. According to the Sunan of Abu Da'ud, the Hadith says: "Umm Waraqah wanted to accompany the Prophet to the battle of Badr, but the Prophet told her to stay in her home." Further in this Hadith it is said that the Prophet used to visit her in her home. He appointed a person to give Adhan for her and he told her to lead the prayer for the people of her house (Ahl dariha). Abdur Rahman ibn Khallad (the reporter of this Hadith) said, "I saw her mu'adhin who was a very old man." (Abu Da'ud 500). In another reports of this Hadith it is said that the Prophet told her to lead the prayers of the women of her house (nisa' dariha). (Reported by Dar Qutni).
Some Muslim scholars interpret this narration for allowance of women to lead prayers for all her family members, and some restrict this only to women. As far as I know, this is the only narrations which even mentions the issue of women leading prayers. Due to non-existence of enough material on the matter, a significant amount of ambiguity has been left on the issue, and external general principles are used by scholars to support the conclusions they reach. In short, I don’t think it can be denied that there exists a difference of opinion on the issue and a group of scholars exists who don’t see a prohibition for women leading the prayers for all her family members.

So either she obeys her husband or seek divorce?

Although, I didn’t mean to say anything along those lines, but from what I understand, this is exactly what happens in marriages.

When the first spouse wants to do something the second spouse doesn’t want him/her to do, there are left only three paths. Either the second spouse compromises and allows the first spouse, OR the first spouse compromises and gives up his/her desire OR they get divorced. From what I understand, there is no other alternative. Most people don’t look at this problem from such an angle, but practically-speaking, this is exactly what happens.

Furthermore, if God wasn’t advocating “destruction of marriages” when He gave the right of divorce to the wife, how can I be encouraging “destruction of marriages” when I simply state this fact. The only thing I did, was to mention a wife’s Islamic right to divorce. When a wife feels that she can no longer continue the marriage, or continue to make compromises, as far as I understand, if she so desires, it is her Islamic right to get a divorce.

If God didn’t accept the fact that there are going to be legitimate reasons when a wife will differ from her husband and she wouldn’t want to compromise, why would God give her the right to divorce? Of course, the first option is to compromise, to reach an amicable settlement; but if that doesn’t work out, the right to divorce is a God-given right.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2017, 11:41:38 PM »
Quote
When the first spouse wants to do something the second spouse doesn’t want him/her to do, there are left only three paths. Either the second spouse compromises and allows the first spouse, OR the first spouse compromises and gives up his/her desire OR they get divorced. From what I understand, there is no other alternative. Most people don’t look at this problem from such an angle, but practically-speaking, this is exactly what happens.

Furthermore, if God wasn’t advocating “destruction of marriages” when He gave the right of divorce to the wife, how can I be encouraging “destruction of marriages” when I simply state this fact. The only thing I did, was to mention a wife’s Islamic right to divorce. When a wife feels that she can no longer continue the marriage, or continue to make compromises, as far as I understand, if she so desires, it is her Islamic right to get a divorce.

I already showed you the Noble Verses that:

1-  Command all Muslim wives to be obedient to their husbands.

2-  The husband is his wife's lord.

3-  Disobedient wives are considered NASHIZ.  Allah Almighty even commanded the husbands to BEAT THEM after the 3rd warning!
  This is excused in the countries that prohibit it.  Allah Almighty Himself excused it:

[002:173]  He hath only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name hath been invoked besides that of God. But if one is forced by necessity, without wilful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits,- then is he guiltless فمن اضطر غير باغ ولاعاد فلا اثم عليه. For God is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.

www.answering-christianity.com/beating.htm



The siwak lie:

Many "scholars" today say that the beating should be only with a tap of a siwak (wooden tooth brush).  This is both gay and false!  It is also a mockery of Allah Almighty's Law.  Yes, you are forbidden to hit her on the face (The Prophet applied this to all humans), and forbidden to bruise her, even though this last one is debatable, because it is different from case to case.  I mean if your wife curses you out in public and humiliates you, and she just never stops, then I don't see beating her hard, after the second warning, would be wrong as long as the law allows it, and of course as long as you do not inflict sever harm and bruises on her, as brother Karim Fattah thoroughly proven below:

www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2855.msg13630.html#msg13630

The cases of Nushooz (nashiz women) are relative and all depend on their situations.

The Bible too allows the beating.  See the link above.

The general Rule for all husbands to follow, however, towards their wives is:

1-  Do not treat them with harshness:

"O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower [money given by the husband to the wife for the marriage contract] ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.  (The Noble Quran, 4:19)"

2-  Do not retain them to harm them:

Do not retain them to harm them.  Either live with them in kindness or part with them in kindness:

"And when you men have divorced women, ...then either retain them in kindness if you reconcile, or part with them in kindness. Do not retain them to harm them so that you transgress limits. He who does this has wronged himself. (The Noble Quran 2:231)"


3-  Live with them in love and tranquility:

"And among God's signs is this: He created for you mates from amongst yourselves (males as mates for females and vice versa) that you might find tranquillity and peace in them. And he has put love and kindness among you. Herein surely are signs for those who reflect. (The Noble Quran 30:21)" 

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/beating.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/quran_moral_code.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/ac9.htm#links


Nushooz doesn't automatically happen before a divorce.  In other words, a Muslim couple could still end up divorcing without any nushooz happening from the wife or husband.  Both can still be well mannered and treat each other appropriately till the very end of the marriage.



I know divorce is allowed in Islam, but it is among the most detested.  I won't quote the Hadith that says it is the MOST DETESTED TO ALLAH from all the Halal, because some say it is a weak Hadith.  Instead, I'll quote the Glorious Quran, for this is my preferred source to silence all of the crap that the QUACKS (I don't mean you here) who consider themselves scholars spew to corrupt the Muslims:

‏4:21 وكيف تاخذونه وقد افضى بعضكم الى بعض واخذن منكم ميثاقا غليظا

[004:021]  And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant? ميثاقا غليظا

Three times in the Glorious Quran this term ميثاقا غليظا was used:

1-  For the covenant of marriage between the husband and the wife.

2-  For the covenant of the Holiness of the Sabbath between Allah Almighty and the Jews.  This is why The Almighty turned their violators of the Sabbath into pigs and monkeys.

3-  For the covenant between Allah Almighty and His Prophets.




The land of sodomy and divorce:

My brother, don't listen to the quacks!  These cultists are garbage.  The land of sodomy, Saudi Arabia, has 50% of its men sodomized and 50% of its women divorced!  This careless and reckless attitude about "divorce him if you don't like him", or "divorce her if you don't like her" is very wrong!  Divorce should be dealt with very aggressively, because careless divorce will bring sin upon the married couple and their society if the society is guilty in corrupting them:

‏2:236 لاجناح عليكم ان طلقتم النساء مالم تمسوهن او تفرضوا لهن فريضة ومتعوهن على الموسع قدره وعلى المقتر قدره متاعا بالمعروف حقا على المحسنين

"You bear no sin if you divorce your wives AS LONG AS YOU HAVE NOT (ma-lam مالم) had (a sexual) contact (with them), and before settling (the amount of) the nuptial premium (for them). Yet, you should make provisions for them (even then); the affluent in keeping with his means, and the poor according to what he can afford. A fair provision is an obligation upon the pious.  (The Noble Quran, 2:236)"

After the marriage had been consummated, it will bring sin upon you if you divorce carelessly.  This is why the Muta of the Shias is 100% haram EVEN IF THE PROPHET HIMSELF ALLOWED IT AND NEVER FORBADE IT as they falsely claim.  Even if that is true, muta is still forbidden and sinful.



The Prophet got careless:

"It is not lawful for you (to marry other) women after this, nor to change them for other wives even though their beauty attracts you, except those (captives or slaves) whom your right hand possesses. And Allah is Ever a Watcher over all things.  (The Noble Quran, 33:52)"


Notice here that even if Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was doing muta (temporary marriage), then the plug was pulled on him.  He was commanded to drop it AT ONCE!


And to keep the marriage's purity and holiness upheld, it is highly recommend by Allah Almighty to only marry one woman only:

"If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.  (The Noble Quran, 4:3)"

For more, please visit:
www.answering-christianity.com/was_muta_immoral.htm


Much of Sunnism and Shiaism are evil.  The Muslim cults today are all evil and corrupt.  And they are led by corrupt quacks:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac11.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline karim fattah

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2017, 12:38:54 PM »
osama to respond to your beating point

firstly no you are not allowed to hit her face as, bukhari 2559: The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "If somebody fights (or beats somebody) then he should avoid the face."
Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2137:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:
Mu'awiyah asked: Apostle of Allah, what is the right of the wife of one of us over him? He replied: That you should give her food when you eat, clothe her when you clothe yourself, do not strike her on the face, do not revile her or separate yourself from her except in the house.
 and many other ahadith state

with regard to leaving a mark, no not allowed, tafsir maududi says: the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face, or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body.

according to letmeturnthetabls.com: "Fear Allah concerning women! Verily you have taken them on the security of Allah, and intercourse with them has been made lawful unto you by words of Allah. You too have right over them, and that they should not allow anyone to sit on your bed whom you do not like. But if they do that, (in that case) chastise them in a way that leaves no mark (i.e. not severe). Their rights upon you are that you should provide them with food and clothing in a fitting manner."
(Sahih Muslim, Hadith 2137)

Do not cause harm or return harm.

Source: Sunan ibn Majah 2340, Grade: Hasan

Do not harm them in order to straighten them.

Surah At-Talaq 65:6

Strike them if they disobey you concerning good conduct, a striking without severity.

Source: Tafseer At-Tabari 9377, Grade: Hasan

also with regard the siwak being a lie, osama brother this is false.

ta’ reported: Ibn Abbas said:

ضَرْبًا غَيْرَ مُبَرِّحٍ

It is a striking without severity.

I said to Ibn Abbas, “What is a striking without severity?” Ibn Abbas said:

 بِالسِّوَاكِ وَنَحْوِهِ

It is with a toothstick or something similar.

Source: Tafseer At-Tabari 9387

Rather than being a physical punishment, this striking is a teaching mechanism intended to direct the wife’s attention to the severity of her behavior. The Prophet would do so with his male companions as a means of catching their attention.

Abu Dharr reported:

فَضَرَبَ بِيَدِهِ عَلَى مَنْكِبِي ثُمَّ قَالَ

The Prophet struck my chest with his hand and he said…

Source: Sahih Muslim 1825, Grade: Sahih

some ahadith proving you cannot harm your wife by beating them

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, chapter 68:
Imam Ahmad recorded that `A'ishah said, "The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah. And he was never given the option between two things except that the most beloved of the two to him was the easiest of them, as long as it did not involve sin. If it did involve sin, then he stayed farther away from sin than any of the people. He would not avenge himself concerning anything that was done to him, except if the limits of Allah were transgressed. Then, in that case he would avenge for the sake of Allah.''

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2139:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:
I went to the Apostle of Allah and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them

Abu Dawud, Book 11, Number 2138:
Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah:
I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.


Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (3895) and Ibn Majaah (1977), also quoted in Imam Ghazzali's Ihya Ulum-Id-Din, Marriage section:
"The best of you is the one who is best to his wife, and I am the best of you to my wives."

also refuted here:  http://www.letmeturnthetables.com/2008/06/does-islam-allow-wife-beating.html
https://discover-the-truth.com/2017/02/03/a-historical-analysis-of-the-beat-verse-quran-434/
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/noble_quran_4_34.htm
http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/rebuttal_to_silas__article__a_rebuttal_of_jamal_badawi_s__wife_beating_

next up the meaning of daraba could also mean seperate, proof this book: https://issuu.com/islamophobiadebunked/docs/is_beating_women_permitted_in_islam


Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2017, 02:21:47 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

Akhi Karim, I did say above that striking on the face is not permitted in Islam.  Yes, Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, forbade it for all humans.

As to hitting with a tooth stick, that is complete nonsense.  I totally disagree with it.  I do however agree strongly with you that no bruising should be done.

Jazaka Allah Khayr.  I have modified my harsh statement above about the beating.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline submit

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Re: A doubt
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2017, 08:24:59 PM »
thats like questioning why the Abrahaimic God created woman second to after creating man, why not creating both at same time to show equality. Why God decided to have woman bearing the hardship of delivering babies, where's the equalities to that of a man.