Author Topic: Need help with refutation  (Read 5405 times)

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Offline Islam1st

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Need help with refutation
« on: July 12, 2016, 07:19:48 AM »

Offline submit

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Re: Need help with refutation
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 10:26:09 AM »
"NO ONE KNOWS ITS INTERPRETATION EXCEPT ALLAH."

what he said is truth.

example of unclear verse. where all of the translators could not translate it.
http://quran.com/2:1

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Need help with refutation
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 11:27:26 AM »
Sometimes the brackets are a couple words explanation for Arabic words that don't have their equivalent in English. At other times they are to keep the context intact. Most translations don't include the surrounding events for the verse, such information is included in the Tafsirs.

For word-by-word translations you can use: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp
For up to 53 translations from different (Muslim and non-Muslim) sources.: http://www.islamawakened.com/index.php/qur-an

Regarding your discourse:

Although not entirely incorrect, it would've been better if you hadn't used the words "a more PRECISE translation", "a more descriptive" or "more explanatory" translation would have been better. The thing is Islam or the Qur'an can't really be taken as on an individual level. The whole of religion and scripture has to be taken holistically for a person to be sure (at-least as much as he/she can be) of what the interpretation of a particular verse is.

For example, there is a verse in the Holy Qur'an which says that the punishment for a thief is to cut off his hand. Taken on an individual level, it would mean that all thieves' hands should be cut off. But from the events of Prophet Muhammad and Caliph Umar's lives, we find out that a person's circumstances, the monetary value of the thing that was stolen and the protection that was put on it, all are to be taken into account.

This is what Muhsin Khan's translation is doing, i.e. providing short explanations for things that, although the scholars are well aware of and there is little to no difference of opinion, but for the average reader (especially a non-Muslim reader) are completely unknown.

Regarding his claims,

- "DON'T YOU AND YOUR SCHOLARS KNOW ALLAH HAS STRICTLY FORBIDDEN ANY INTERPRETATION BY MEN.
ONLY ALLAH HIMSELF CAN INTERPRET IS QURAN."

As far as I know, this is completely ludicrous. No verse's interpretation has ever been forbidden by Allah. The most that can be said is that there are some verse about which we can perform our best efforts, spend our entire lives but at the end of the day we cannot ever be absolutely sure whether our interpretation is right or wrong. We will make our laws or ideologies according to our best efforts but will never reject the idea that we can be wrong and have made mistakes.

For example, using the example given by "submit" like Surah 2:1, Quran 20:1 includes the Arabic letters "Ta" and "Ha". According to Shabir Ally it was found that interestingly the letters "Ta" and "Ha" are repeated exactly equal number of times in that Surah. Now this could be the only meaning that was intended by Allah from this verse or there could be several others. Whatever may be the case we can never be sure.

- "NO ONE KNOWS ITS INTERPRETATION EXCEPT ALLAH."

It is a complete non sequitur fallacy to say that because only Allah knows the meaning He has forbidden any research on it. How can someone take such a huge leap and come to this conclusion?

- "Your scholars are described by the Qur'?n as "those in whose hearts is deviation".?"

The same argument as for the previous point.

- "The Qur'?n must be understood and obeyed litteraly."

There are both literal and metaphorical verses. What I have personally seen is that unlike the Hadiths literature, there is usually little difference of opinion among scholars on which verse has literal meaning and which has metaphorical.

 

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