Responding to a lie by Sam Shamoun.

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Responding to a lie by Sam Shamoun

 

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Sam Shamoun recently wrote a response to Bassam Zawadi, Shamoun's response can be found here:

 

http://./Responses/Osama/zawadi_sabbath_lord.htm

 

I will only be dealing with the ending of his response since Shamoun specifically addresses me at the end of his response, and as usual he lies again, which is something common now because he is possessed by a demonic satanic spirit within him which he wrongly calls the holy spirit.

 

 

Shamoun Wrote

 

Notes:

{1} It is vital that we address ’s assertion that I never met his challenge during the debate. The truth is that ran from the debate before I ever got the chance to answer him. In fact, he was suppose to debate a second topic right after we had finished the first one, but he conveniently made excuses to leave the Paltalk room since it became apparent that he was in way over his head and couldn’t refute the material which was being leveled against him. apparently realized that he was losing and so needed to find a reason to run and save face.

 

My Response

 

Now let me end this missionaries lie, he claims he never got the chance to address my challenge to him on showing me where Jesus said I am God. This is the most incredible lie I have heard, folks in 2 hours of debate I kept chasing Shamoun to show me this verse AND HE NEVER DID, he had TWO HOURS to bring this simple verse!!!!!

 

Secondly, the liar is lying once again when he claims I ran, if you go listen to the ending of the debate, I left when Shamoun RESTRICTED MY MICROPHONE abilities which was against the rules, and he started PERSONALLY INSULTING ME.

 

Thirdly, as for me losing, this is your wish and fantasy, you produced some of the worst debate material anyone could come up with, all your arguments were refuted, in fact your arguments strengthened and agreed with my position! So in truth the info you brought up to prove Jesus is God actually was proof that he was NOT GOD.

 

So quit lying and trying to save face, you had 2 hours to meet my simple challenge, and I kept reminding you over and over again, this is proof that you were never going to address it so quit trying to save face in front of all the readers.

 

For listners who have not heard the debate, you can find it on the top of this page titles as 'VS SAM SHAMOUN, IS JESUS GOD?'

 

http://answering-christianity.com/index.html

 

However, let us now see the verses which Shamoun brings up which supposedly meet my challenge, as usual he illustrates how weak and bad his material is.

 

Shamoun wrote

 

Here is the passage which I was prepared to present during the debate in answer to his challenge:

 

"And I heard a loud voice saying, ‘Now the dwelling of God (tou theou - the God) is with men, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people and God (ho theos - the God) himself will dwell with them and be their God.’ He who was seated on the throne said, ‘I am making everything new!’ Then he said, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be HIS GOD and he will be my son.’" Revelation 21:3-7

 

My Response

 

I must say this is very funny, why? Because I SPECIFICALLY ADRESSED THESE VERSES IN THE DEBATE!!!!!!!!

 

So Shamoun is LYING, these verses were brought up in the debate and he was REFUTED ON IT, so once again this missionary gets exposed for what he is.

 

Here is the response I gave which was basically from a previous article of mine:

 

Revelations 21: 1-8

 

1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is not Jesus speaking but rather the Father. As it says I will be his God and he will be my son. Or does Jesus have a son now?

 

Revelations 22 : 6-18

 

6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. 9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Christians once again will say that is Jesus. In fact it is clear that that is not Jesus. Read the text very carefully, you will notice that it is suddenly THE God speaking when he says I am alpha and omega. Let us Quote to make it simple so every one can see who is talking rather than making everyone confused:


This is John

 

6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done. 7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book. 8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things

 

This is angel

 

9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. 10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. 11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be

 

Now this is THE God

 

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie

 

Now it is Jesus

 

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. 17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

This is what I said in the debate!!!!! So Shamoun is lying once again, these verses were brought up in the debate and they were dealt with.

In fact during the debate, I showed more proof that the alpha and omega was not Jesus:

 

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

As you can see once verse 8 comes it is no longer Jesus speaking. Jesus is the speaker from verses 1-7. It is very obvious when you read the two that verse 8 is a different speaker. In fact Jesus is ending his statement in verse 7 by saying Amen. As I said, it is not good English, you have to break it down to see who is talking, there are up to 4 speakers and they are all speaking so it does confusing and you can mix the words of the speakers such as you have mixed the words of THE God with the words of Jesus. So no one is denying verses 1-7 is about Jesus which is basically what you further proved. You did not prove verse 8 is about Jesus.

 

Also note what the earlier passages said:

 

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw

 

So basically John heard the testimony of Jesus which basically means he heard his words. The passages after ward tell us what Jesus said:

 

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

Those are the words of Jesus that John heard. Note he always says AMEN afterwards, that is how you can tell when it is no longer Jesus. Such in revelations verse 8 there is no Amen after the statement of the alpha and omega. That is one sign that verse is not about Jesus, the fact there is no Amen afterwards.

 

Secondly something huge that proves it is not Jesus is this statement that is made in verse 8:

8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

Note the alpha omega is the one who is and which was and is to come. I bet you anything you will be thinking that is Jesus and that I am crazy for trying to use this for proof. Well why don’t we read the earlier passages again which show us that Jesus is NOT the one who is and which was and is to come, take note:

 

: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 AND FROM JESUS CHRIST, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

 

So as you could see for yourself, the one who is and was and is to come is not Jesus. Lets break it down:

 

4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come

 

This is THE God talking not Jesus, because note now what Jesus says means he is not the one speaking:

 

5 AND FROM JESUS CHRIST

AND FROM JESUS meaning that the first speaker was not Jesus or it would not say AND Jesus. The fact it says AND Jesus shows the one who said I was and is and to come was not Jesus! It cannot get anymore clearer than that! So  Jesus was not speaking in Revelations 8, if you say he was then your just being bias. Again here it is:

 

3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth

 

AND from Jesus, meaning Jesus is a different person than the one who said I was and is to come. So this is crystal clear proof that Revelations 8 is not Jesus since the speaker of Revelations 8 is the one who is, the one that was, and the one who will come and that my friend is not Jesus because there was a distinction made between the two.

 

Shamoun Wrote

 

The evidence strongly supports the view that Jesus is speaking in these references. For instance, Christ is said to be the God who comes to dwell with mankind:

 

"All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: ‘The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel’- which means, ‘God (ho theos - the God) with us.’" Matthew 1:22-23

"teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I AM with you ALWAYS, to the end of the age." Matthew 28:20

 

The Lord Jesus promises to be with all believers till the end of the age, which is a claim of omnipresence! Since God alone is omnipresent this provides additional evidence that Christ claimed to be God.

 

My Response

 

The name Immanuel given to Jesus is not literal, this is Shamoun's idea that it is, and offcourse he would think that since he believes Jesus is God.

 

However so, if Shamoun wants to play that game the meaning of names, then let us give the meaning of names that were given to other men which are far greater than the title Immanuel:

 

Joshua, which is short for "Josh Yahweh" means "Yahweh Saves

 

Gabriel also means "Strong God".

Elihu means "My God is He".

 

These are just a few examples, but many more could be given to illustrate how weak Shamoun's line of argumentation is, in fact I already know Shamoun's response, but I want him to say his weak response so I can further refute his weak arguments, so we will all wait for that.

As for the other verse Shamoun quotes:

 

"teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I AM with you ALWAYS, to the end of the age." Matthew 28:20

 

It would be more correct of Shamoun to quote not only verse 20 but the ones before it:

 

17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

So in the same verses which supposedly prove Jesus is God the same verses also prove he is not God! God is not given authority or power, HE OWNS IT, something Shamoun can and never will understand, so Jesus making the claim of him being given authority is an explicit statement of him denying he is God! He is showing his disciples that he is powerless, and relies on God, just like all other prophets do, and just like all other men should do.

 

Secondly, Jesus telling his disciples he will be with them always is not literal, this is figurative speech, often when you are about to die, or leave someone you tell them I will always be with etc. This is figurative language and not literal, this is what Jesus meant. Jesus gave them the doctrine from God, so if the disciples kept preaching it etc this would in a sense have Jesus with them, because they are preaching the doctrine which was given to him from God. So it is not literal saying from Jesus, Jesus himself said he spoke in parables.

 

Shamoun wrote

 

Furthermore, Jesus in Revelation identifies himself as the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End:

 

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I WAS DEAD, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.’" Revelation 1:17-18

 

"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again." Revelation 2:8

 

My Response

 

Furthermore, you once again prove Jesus is not God, note the verses Shamoun posts:

 

When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I WAS DEAD, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.’" Revelation 1:17-18

 

Tell me, if Jesus really said that, then how in the world is he God? God does not DIEEEEEEEE, God is ALL-LIVING, he is not like men to die, so therefore this alone proves Jesus is not God for God does not die!

 

"To the angel of the church in Smyrna write: These are the words of him who is the First and the Last, who died and came to life again." Revelation 2:8

 

God died and came back to life? This is blasphemy without a doubt.

 

Shamoun then goes on to quote some more passages from Revelations, all of which is irrelevant, why? Because Revelations did not take place while Jesus was preaching, so therefore let us look at the words of Jesus while he was preaching on earth, not supposed words of his from a man who was having nightmares and seeing dragons and monsters with 10 horns and so on.

 

Thankfully, Shamoun does quote some supposed words of Jesus while he was preaching:

 

"Jesus answered her, ‘If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living waters’ … Jesus answered, ‘Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.’" John 4:10, 13-14

"On the last day, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ‘If anyone is thirsty, let him come to ME and drink. Whoever believes in ME, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.’" John 7:37-38

 

Let us deal with each verse one by one:

 

Jesus answered her, ‘If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living waters’ … Jesus answered, ‘Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.’" John 4:10, 13-14

 

Shamoun is trying to show that since Jesus gives a water that grants eternal life this makes Jesus God, as usual Shamoun cannot even quote his NT in context! Why do I say that?

 

Well you see folks, we must ask ourselves who GAVE JESUS THIS WATER? That is what we must ask ourselves, something Shamoun does not!

 

Let us quote Jesus' own words:

 

John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me

 

So note Jesus says that he has been GIVEN ALL THINGS, from miracle to doctrine etc. Let us quote some more interesting passages on what Jesus has to say:

 

Jhn 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me.

 

.Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

 

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

 

So as you can see, even Jesus' doctrine was not his, and as he also said, if you believe in him you DONT believe in him but the one that sent you.

Hence when Jesus says he will give you eternal life etc, it is not from himself or anything, it is because you have believed in him as a prophet, and by doing so you believe in the God that sent him, and in the doctrine that God gave him. And as we all know, if you dont believe in these things, God will not grant you paradise but rather he will send you straight to hell.

 

Again, as we see, Jesus is given all things, so how can Jesus give someone eternal life if he is given all things? The answer is HE CANT, rather it is God doing this and not Jesus. So Shamoun should stop taking his very own book out of context to suit his own dogma and corrupt beliefs.

If you believe in Jesus as a prophet, God will grant you eternal life, this is what Jesus means, and if Shamoun quotes his book in context he would have seen that.

 

Now incase people are a bit confused, the water that Jesus is speaking about is not literally water, it is once again figurative speech, its not some magic water which he will give you to drink and you will go to heaven. The water he gives you is the doctrine that God gave him etc, and if you accept that doctrine, then you will enter paradise since you have believe in God's message, pretty simple.

 

The other verse:

 

"On the last day, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, ‘If anyone is thirsty, let him come to ME and drink. Whoever believes in ME, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him.’" John 7:37-38

 

How does this prove Jesus is God? I have no idea. When Jesus says that you go to HIM and drink, all he means is that you go and learn the scripture from him, I do not see why Shamoun makes a big deal of Jesus saying come to ME, why does he capitalize Jesus saying ME?

 

Perhaps Shamoun forgot Jesus is God's prophet and spokesperson, who has been given God's message to preach, so off course your going to go to Jesus to learn and believe in this doctrine! That is God's plan, he sends his prophet with scripture and the people go to the PROPHET and learn and eventually believe in the scripture and message.

 

So none of these verses prove Jesus is God, FAR FROM IT, and note, Shamoun still does not meet my challenge!!! My challenge was this:

 

SHOW ME WHERE JESUS I AM GOD

 

You have not shown me this, so next time do not say you will meet the challenge when you know you can’t, do not be stubborn Shamoun. Just say you cannot get the explicit passages, but you will get passages that imply it, which is what you have just done, but I am not asking for passages implying it. So you have once again failed to meet my challenge.

 

 

 

 

Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.

A Muslim's Rebuttals section.


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