Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s response More on the Quran Contradiction of Angels Creating and Causing Death.

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Rebuttal to Sam Shamoun’s response
More on the Quran Contradiction of Angels Creating and Causing Death

By

 

 

 

 

 

http://www..net/Responses/Osama/_angels.htm

 

 

Sam Shamoun has written up a paper in which he thinks he refuted me. As we shall shortly see, much like his first response to me, Shamoun does not refute a single thing, but just shows how little he knows about Islam.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

, one of Osama Abdallah’s writers, has written a brief response to my claim that the Quran contradicts itself regarding whether angels can create or cause death. He says:

There is no contradiction. Let me post the supposed contradictory verses again:

After quoting some of the passages which I had cited (cf. Suras 4:97; 16:28, 32; 25:3; 32:11), then claims:

Once again there is no contradiction, these angels have the power to cause people to die by the will of Allah, the angels are given that power. Shamoun seems to forget that, the angels do only what Allah allows them to do, the angels are able to cause death because Allah sends them with this great power, so hence it isn’t really the angels who have the power to cause death etc.

This verse basically means that Allah alone is in control of life and death, he is independent, he does not need anyone to give him the power to cause death, nor the power to create life. The angels however unlike Allah need the help of Allah to cause someone to die, they are entirely dependent upon Allah. So hence you have two different situations, had the angels caused people to die by their own will and power, then Shamoun would have a case.

RESPONSE:

Notice that in order to avoid the glaring contradiction has to assume that these texts are saying something which they in fact do not state. He brings up the claim that angels do only what Allah allows them, as if this is refuting my argument. To show why ’s point is nothing more than a red herring we will simply post the verses once again:

Is He then Who creates like him who does not create? Do you not then mind? … And those whom they call on besides Allah have not created anything while they are themselves created; Dead (are they), not living, and they know not when they shall be raised. S. 16:17, 20-21 Shakir

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir

 

My Response

 

Actually what I said is not a red-herring but a fact, angels do only what Allah allows them to do. So if angels cause people to die, it is not from their own power, it is Allah who has given them this power; they have not done it alone. That is the essential difference, I said it in my previous rebuttal, and I will say it again, had the angels done this on their then that would be something much different. However so, the fact is the angels do not do this on their own, but with the will and power of Allah. Hence there is no contradiction regarding this verse:

 

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir

Angels certainly do not control life and death, at the end of the day it is all in Allah’s hands, whom ever he wills to die, then they shall die, whom ever he wills to live, they shall live, this is all in Allah’s hands. This power and right belongs to no one else. I even showed from the Quran, that angels simply do what Allah commands them to do so:

 

 

097.004
YUSUFALI: Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission, on every errand:

 

 

019.064 PICKTHAL: We (angels) come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto Him belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between those two, and thy Lord was never forgetful –

 

So as we see, angels only do what Allah commands them to do, and only do things by his permission, they do not do things alone. So it is clear, that angels do only what Allah tells them to do, and by his permission, and that angels are given this power to cause people to die, they do not own it. Allah owns the power, he has the power to cause people to die whenever he feels like, he does not need to ask for permission, he does not have to be commanded, and he does not need to be given the power. That is the very essential difference.

 

Anyone who knows how to think logically will know there is a huge difference between someone who is able to cause life and death on his own, without any permission, with that of somebody who causes death when he is given permission, and that power to carry this action out.

 

My question to Shamoun is this, how can angels control life and death when they are given the command to cause death? If you are in control of something you don’t need to be ordered to do it, or given permission to carry it out.

 

So as we can see my points were not a red-herring at all, it is simply Shamoun trying to escape the hard truth.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Pay careful attention to the fact that none of these texts make the qualification that seeks to make; none of them say that the problem with the unbelievers’ position was that they believed that angels could create and cause death independently from Allah’s decree or permission. These texts do not say that the unbelievers assumed that angels could create and cause death on the basis of their own inherent ability or authority, that they didn’t need Allah to give them the power to perform their functions. The references simply say that these other entities cannot create or cause death period, with no further qualification.

 

My Response

 

Actually, you tell people to pay careful attention, when you don’t pay attention yourself. Here is what the verse says:

 

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir

Note the verse says that they DO NOT CONTROL LIFE AND DEATH. As we see, angels also do not control life and death!!! So therefore these verses are saying their false gods, control nothing, which is true. Allah controls everything, death and life. If he decrees for someone to die, then it will happen, it is only up to him if he will save that person or not, no one else.

 

So therefore these unbelievers have no right to worship these beings, how can you worship something that doesn’t control anything!!!

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

In his haste, forgot to note that the Quran says that even the unbelievers knew that Allah has all power and created all things, and that they worshiped other beings in order that they might bring them closer to Allah:

If indeed thou ask them who has created the heavens and the earth and subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law), they will certainly reply, "Allah". How are they then deluded away (from the truth)? Allah enlarges the sustenance (which He gives) to whichever of His servants He pleases; and He (similarly) grants by (strict) measure, (as He pleases): for Allah has full knowledge of all things. And if indeed thou ask them who it is that sends down rain from the sky, AND GIVES LIFE THEREWITH TO THE EARTH AFTER ITS DEATH, they will certainly reply, "Allah!" Say, "Praise be to Allah!" But most of them understand not. S. 29:61-63

And if thou ask them, ‘Who has created the heavens and the earth?’ They will, surely, answer, ‘ALLAH.’ Say, ‘All praise belongs to ALLAH.’ But most of them have no knowledge. S. 31:25 Sher Ali

And should you ask them, Who created the heavens and the earth? THEY WOULD MOST CERTAINLY SAY: Allah. Say: Have you then considered that what you call upon besides Allah, would they, if Allah desire to afflict me with harm, be the removers of His harm, or (would they), if Allah desire to show me mercy, be the withholders of His mercy? Say: Allah is sufficient for me; on Him do the reliant rely. S. 39:38 Shakir

And those whom they invoke besides God have no power of intercession;- only he who bears witness to the Truth, and they know (him). If thou ask them, who created them, THEY WILL CERTAINLY SAY, God: How then are they deluded away (from the Truth)? (God has knowledge) of the (Prophet's) cry, "O my Lord! Truly these are people who will not believe!" S. 43:86-88

 

My Response

 

Yes, thank you for pointing this out, because this in fact refutes your whole position!!! This shows the people knew Allah created everything, and had all power, yet they still worshiped other gods alongside him who could not do anything for them. So you prove my point, everything belongs to Allah, death and life. So therefore we know, if angels caused someone to die, it is based on the simple fact that Allah gave them this power and right. How can you worship such a being who is given power to cause someone to die? That doesn’t make any sense, I choose to worship the one who controls life and death, and doesn’t need any permission, and doesn’t need to be GIVEN the power. This is what separates God from the rest.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

As a side note, this text introduces another contradiction. Islamic tradition teaches that at least some of those whom they invoked, i.e. Jesus and angels, do indeed intercede for individuals!

Surely pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate. S. 39:3

The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped aught but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message? S. 16:35

The pagans in the preceding passage were basically repeating what Allah supposedly said to Muhammad:

If it had been Allah’s plan, they would not have taken false gods: but We made thee not one to watch over their doings, nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs. S. 6:107

 

My Response

 

Yes, this all proves my point, their fake gods cannot do a single thing, and that all power belongs to the one and true God who is Allah. So Shamoun just proves my point! Even those pagans knew this, yet they decided to continue worshiping other wooden objects who could not even create a fly.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Hence, if the Quran is to be believed then these unbelievers knew a lot about Allah and angels. They apparently knew that angels were subordinate beings who were created by Allah, not that they were rival gods who were equal to Allah. After all, by claiming that the unbelievers knew that Allah created all things the Quran invariably shows that even they were aware that angels were creatures of Allah. Thus, from the foregoing we can safely conclude that the unbelievers would have understood that the angels that they worshiped could only create and cause death because Allah had granted them this ability, that Allah created them to have these powers.

To put it rather simply, the problem that the Quran has with the unbelievers isn’t that they thought that these creatures could create independently from Allah’s will. Rather, the Quran has a problem with the unbelievers thinking that angels could create at all.

 

My Response

 

The problem the Quran has with these people is that they worship other beings who have no right to be worshiped. They worship beings who DO NOT CONTROL LIFE AND DEATH, and they also know this, as Shamoun showed us, yet they continue to do it!

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

then asserts:

A good example to prove my point is the birth of Jesus:

021.091
YUSUFALI: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

Now note the verses say Allah breathed a soul into Mary. As we all know Allah sent his agent Jibreel to breathe the soul into Mary, so does that now mean that the angel Jibreel is God since he breathed a soul into Mary? Off course not, as we see the Quran says it is Allah, so we are able to conclude that Jibreel was able to breathe the soul into Mary because Allah gave the angel the power to do so. This is the same case with the verses Shamoun brought up on angels causing people to die; they are just given the power to carry that order out. They are not doing it on their own will and power.

RESPONSE:

It seems that has not bothered reading our rebuttals addressing the claim that these texts are referring to Gabriel breathing into Mary, or the ramifications this assertion has on the alleged consistency and infallibility of the Quran. In the first place, ’s example only reinforces the contradiction, it does nothing to resolve it. It proves that the unbelievers were correct in assuming that angels can create life, which means that the Quran was wrong for claiming that they cannot.

Second, has assumed without actually bothering to prove it that the texts in question are speaking of Allah breathing a soul into Mary. These texts say no such thing, but rather claim that Allah breathed of his own Spirit into Mary.

 

My Response

 

These texts actually prove my point that angels only do what Allah allows them to do, and he gives them this right. Let me state my point again:

 

 

021.091
YUSUFALI: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

 

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

 

In these verses it is Allah speaking. As we all know, the one who did breath into Mary was the angel Jibreel. Shamoun just exposes his lack of knowledge on Islam by thinking this is a contradiction. What Shamoun doesn’t get from all this is that it proves that it is really Allah doing everything.

 

As Ibn Kathirs tafsir said:

 

Source: http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KATHEER&nType=1&nSora=66&nAya=12

 

 

Through the medium of an angel and that is Gabriel. God sent him down to her in the form of a man and ordered him to breathe……….

 

So note, the Muslim didn’t have a problem with these verses at all. At the end of the day it was really Allah who was doing everything, Jibreel was just an agent carrying out the task. This proves my point that it is Allah who simply gives the angels the power to perform something out.

 

This just all proves how Shamoun understands nothing about Islam. He even proves this further when he says:

 

, it does nothing to resolve it. It proves that the unbelievers were correct in assuming that angels can create life

 

He believes just because Jibreel breathed into Mary, then this means Jibreel can create life!!! This just shows how much Christians know about Islam in general, which is nothing. The angel Jibreel was merely carrying a task out, it was Allah who allowed Jibreel to breath the spirit into Mary. However as we see, the Quran also confirms this when it states:

 

 

021.091
YUSUFALI: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

 

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

 

So these verses show it was really Allah who was doing everything, and he did it by using his angel, the angel Jibreel as Ibn Kathir stated. So Shamoun just exposes his lack of knowledge on Islam by making such comments, however so, I am thankful for them, since it just establishes the point that Answering Islam are just a group of missionaries who in general hardly know anything about Islam, but just seek to attack it for their own agenda. Which is to deceive people into Christianity. This is exactly why you cannot really trust a missionary. (No offense)

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Third, again assumes without proof that Allah used Gabriel to create Jesus. Yet none of these texts ever state this nor do they even come close to implying it.

 

My Response

 

To begin with, I brought these verses up to show that it was really Allah who did all the work when the angel Jibreel breathed into Mary. It was just to strengthen my position that angels just do what Allah allows them to do, and are given some powers to carry out certain tasks. As for proof that Allah used Jibreel to breathe a soul into Mary, here is some additional information from Ibn Kathir

 

Ibn Kathir writes:

And Maryam, the daughter of 'Imran who guarded her chastity meaning who protected and purified her honor, by being chaste and free of immorality,

And We breathed into it  through Our Ruh,> meaning, through the angel Jibril. Allah sent the angel Jibril to Maryam, and he came to her in the shape of a man in every respect. Allah commanded him TO BLOW into a gap of her garment and that breath went into her womb through her private part; this is how 'Isa was conceived. This is why Allah said here,

<And We breathed into it through Our Ruh, and she testified to the truth of her Lords Kalimat, and His Kutub,> meaning His decree and His legislation.

 

 

If Shamoun wants to argue what Ibn Kathir says, then he is free to do so. However the fact is, Allah used the angel Jibreel to breath a soul into Mary. It was really Allah doing everything.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Fourth, contrary to ’s wishful thinking, to say that Gabriel was the one that breathed into Mary does in fact make him God. The claim that Gabriel breathed into Mary would logically make Gabriel the one speaking in Suras 21:91 and 66:12. According to these verses the one speaking is the one that will breathe his Spirit into Mary. As we just stated, neither of these passages even hint that someone besides the speaker will be the one who will actually breathe and impregnate Mary. More importantly, since Muslims claim that the Quran is the word of Allah this would obviously mean that Allah is supposed to be the speaker in these references. himself admits this when he says that Allah was the one who breathed a soul into Mary. Hence, ’s position inevitably equates Gabriel with Allah, and that Gabriel has a Spirit that he uses to create and impart life. This basically means that Gabriel is the Creator and Life-giver.

 

My Response

 

This is just nonsense to me, this just proves how little you know about Islam and that it is YOU who is not qualified enough to discuss Islam. These points you are making are laughable to say the least. If your supposed theory is true, how come Ibn Kathir didn’t see the same way you did? How come most if not all Muslim tafsirs don’t concur with you? They had no problem with these verses, they all knew it meant Allah breathed into Mary through his angel Jibreel, Jibreel was merely carrying out this honorable task. It is Shamoun’s wishful thinking that Jibreel breathing into Mary makes him God. Since as we see, that is not the case at all. A 5 year old kid would even know this! This is basic stuff; these are the basics of Islam that everyone knows! Yet you completely don’t understand any of it, and if you don’t understand these basic easy points, what about the complicated issues?

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

There are even more problems for . Since Muslims do not equate Gabriel with Allah, and since believes Gabriel breathed into Mary, this leads to the inevitable conclusion that there is actually more than one creator, namely Allah and Gabriel. Yet the Quran emphatically denies that there are other creators besides Allah:

"It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying): ‘If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful.’ But when He giveth them a goodly child, they ascribe to others a share in the gift they have received: but Allah is exalted high above the partners they ascribe to Him. Do they indeed ascribe to Him as partners things that can create nothing, but are themselves created?" S. 7:189-191

"O men! Remember the grace of Allah unto you! Is there a Creator, other than Allah, to give you sustenance from heaven or earth? There is no god but He: how then are ye perverted?" S. 35:3

"He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature, his mate; and He sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He creates you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness. Such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye turned away (from your true Lord)?" S. 39:6

Therefore, the only plausible explanation is that Allah did not use Gabriel to breathe into Mary. Otherwise, if he did then this implies that Allah isn’t the only one that can create life since there is at least one other who can as well. But this would again end up proving that the unbelievers were right that the angels they worshiped can create life or take it away, which means that the Quran is wrong for saying that they cannot. Talk about confusion and chaos!

 

My Response

 

I don’t know, should I laugh or cry at this??? It seems Shamoun wants to brush aside all the Islamic scholars opinion on this issue, which is that Allah breathed into Mary through his angel Jibreel, they didn’t take Jibreel as God!

 

Shamoun even further exposes his lack of knowledge of Islam by such comments:

 

Therefore, the only plausible explanation is that Allah did not use Gabriel to breathe into Mary. Otherwise, if he did then this implies that Allah isn’t the only one that can create life since there is at least one other who can as well

 

This just proves he does not even know the story of Jesus’ creation. The fact is that Allah breathed into Mary through Jibreel! Jibreel was merely carrying a task out, he created nothing at all, he was simply carrying a task out. Allah was the one who was really doing everything, as the verses show:

 

 

 

021.091
YUSUFALI: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

 

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

 

Shamoun seems to forget these verses, these verses show it was really Allah doing everything, he really breathed into Mary. He did this through his angel Jibreel as Ibn Kathir stated:

 

 

Source: http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KATHEER&nType=1&nSora=66&nAya=12

 

 

Through the medium of an angel and that is Gabriel. God sent him down to her in the form of a man and ordered him to breathe……….

 

So Shamoun is arguing nothing here at all. His arguments stem from his lack of knowledge on Islam, so therefore his arguments are expected to be somewhat of this quality.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

Lest misunderstands or tries to distort what is being stated here, we will break it down in steps so that he will be without excuse:

  1. Suras 21:91 and 66:12 quote Allah as saying that he breathed into Mary of his Spirit.
  2. According to and others, Gabriel was the one that breathed into Mary.
  3. Therefore, if these Muslims are correct then Gabriel must be Allah and it is his Spirit that was breathed into Mary.
  4. Or if Gabriel is not Allah then this means that Allah isn’t the only creator. Even angels can create and give life.
  5. But the Quran says in certain passages that angels cannot create life, which means that we have a contradiction.

Basically, ’s arguments have only compounded the problem and actually proved that I was correct that the Quran does contradict itself regarding whether angels can create life. has only managed to reconfirm my article by his arguments.

For more on these points we recommend that the readers consult the following papers:

http://./Quran/Contra/gabriel_spirit.html
http://./Shamoun/gabriel.htm

 

 

My Response

 

Your summary points even further prove how you don’t understand anything about Islam or the Quran. Here it is for you again:

 

021.091
YUSUFALI: And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

 

066.012
YUSUFALI: And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants).

 

Shamoun seems to forget these verses, these verses show it was really Allah doing everything, he really breathed into Mary. He did this through his angel Jibreel as Ibn Kathir stated:

 

 

Source: http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispTafsser.asp?l=arb&taf=KATHEER&nType=1&nSora=66&nAya=12

 

 

Through the medium of an angel and that is Gabriel. God sent him down to her in the form of a man and ordered him to breathe……….

 

Basically your response have just compounded more problems on you, it just proves you barely know anything about Islam. Just like most of the other writers on your site, specifically James Arlandson.

 

I would also like to point out that Shamoun is intentionally twisting things around when he says:

 

  1. Or if Gabriel is not Allah then this means that Allah isn’t the only creator. Even angels can create and give life.

This is obvious deception on his part. As everyone knows, the angel Jibreel was simply carrying a task out, he wasn’t creating anything, just carrying a task out. That is all, the verses I showed further prove this, the verses prove that it was Allah who really did everything, and he was just using his angel Jibreel to carry this mission out. As the tafsirs also agree, so Shamoun is basically making arguments out of nothing.

 

 

 

He Wrote

 

He now turns his attention to the following texts:

097.004
YUSUFALI: Therein come down the angels and the Spirit by Allah's permission, on every errand:

So as we can see here, angels come down only by Allah’s permission, this in itself proves how the angels are not like Allah since Allah needs no permission. So this also shows that when the angels cause people to die, they do this by Allah’s permission, had Shamoun bothered to read the entire Quran and take it in context he would realize this.

019.064 PICKTHAL: We (angels) come not down save by commandment of thy Lord. Unto Him belongeth all that is before us and all that is behind us and all that is between those two, and thy Lord was never forgetful –

So again we see the angels do not come down, meaning come to earth to carry out a mission unless Allah gives them a commandment. Put this verse with the ones Shamoun posted we then get the big picture, the angels are able to cause death since Allah has commanded them to, meaning Allah has allowed them to do it by giving them the power. So as we see, Shamoun forgets to take the context of the Quran into account.

RESPONSE:

As we stated, this is nothing more than a red herring since arguing that angels can only come down and do what Allah permits does nothing to refute the plain teaching of the Quran that those beings which the unbelievers worshiped cannot create or cause death. Some of these beings that unbelievers were invoking included angels. Yet the Quran claims that angels can indeed create and cause death, thereby contradicting itself. Thus, the unbelievers were right and Muhammad was wrong.

We need to repeat this point again. The Quran doesn’t say that the unbelievers thought that the angels, like Allah, didn’t need any permission to create or cause death. The Quran does not say that the unbelievers were worshiping angels because they believed that these spiritual beings were equal to Allah in that they didn’t need his permission to act. This is nothing more than ’s straw man and red herring argumentation. Had bothered reading my article carefully, and truly understood what the unbelievers believed about Allah and his angels, then he would have saved himself the time from writing a rebuttal that fails to refute anything.

As it stands, there is a MAJOR contradiction in the Quran. It is simply ’s lack of knowledge and ability to both exegete the texts and to properly understand the Quran that are hindering him from seeing the problems. really needs to invest sometime in learning how to properly interpret the Quran.

 

My Response

 

Show us where angels can create life, if your referring to Jibreel breathing into Mary, then you are wrong there and twisting it, which we have covered.

 

Secondly, the Quran condemns the unbelievers for worshiping false idols and anything else other than Allah because they control NOTHING. Nothing at all, and they even know this as Shamoun showed us! Therefore Shamoun proves my point, they knew these angels and idols don’t create anything, yet they continue to worship them, and that is what the Quran has a problem with. The Quran has a problem with people who don’t worship Allah.

 

It is Shamoun who has brought up straw men against the Quran. No one denies that angels could cause death, what we do deny is that no one can cause death on their own, dependently etc. All these matters belong to Allah, and at the same time just because these angels can cause death doesn’t mean you can worship them. So tell me, if a man caused someone to die, by poisoning him, with those idiotic pagans worship that man too?

 

Again, the fact is angels do only what Allah allows them to do, by his permission, and they are given power to carry out a certain task. This by no way contradicts any of the Quran, nor does it make angels divine. How can something be divine when it cannot control life and death? Here is the relevant passage again which Shamoun seems to forget:

 

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir

 

 

Shamoun forgets the verse he mentions!!! Note the verse proves my point, that these beings they worship DO NOT CONTROL LIFE AND DEATH, that my point the whole time!!! Even Shamoun agrees with me! Yet he claims I am arguing straw man!  I think Shamoun defiantly forgot about this verse since it proves my entire point. Let me break it down for Shamoun:

 

1-     The Quran claims that the false gods of the pagans do not control life and death, Allah does.

2-     The angels did cause some people to die.

3-     The angels were able to do this, because Allah allowed them to do it.

4-     The angels were able to do this, because Allah gave them the power to do it.

5-     The angels do only what Allah allows them to do

6-     The angels come down to earth to perform a task only by Allah’s permission

7-     Allah doesn’t need permission from anyone to do something

8-     Allah doesn’t need any power from anyone to perform something

9-     Therefore angels do not control life and death!

 

Had the angel’s control of life and death, why would they need permission, and why would they need to be given this power to carry out a person’s death? So hence it seems Shamoun hasn’t followed the verses he’s pointed out, and it seems he hasn’t carefully read what I was getting at.

 

 

 

He wrote

Moreover, is a great illustration of what we have said about the level of argumentation being produced by Abdallah’s staff of authors. These articles are just as bad in terms of quality as Osama’s papers. In fact, is perhaps the least qualified of Osama’s writers and his material is even worse than Osama’s. The reason we even bother interacting with these materials is because of how popular Osama’s site has become with Muslims. We specifically address these shallow arguments in order to silence the lies of some Muslims who are under the impression that our not responding to these papers somehow proves that these arguments are irrefutable.

 

My Response

 

As we see, it seems your living on another planet, and it is time for you to come down to earth, it seems your ego has gotten the better of you, to the level where you actually think you’re a great scholar and that no one else is qualified to refute you. As everyone clearly sees, you don’t know anything about Islam, the fact that you claim I am the least qualified to defend Islam is laughable at best, especially based on the rubbish arguments you brought up which prove that you are the one who doesn’t know anything about Islam.

 

Secondly, your cheap shots aimed at me and Osama, and the site in general mean nothing much. The fact is everyone reading this paper will see that it is you who has not refuted anything, but you have just exposed your own lack of knowledge on Islam.

 

Thirdly, I believe it is you who has no qualifications to attack Islam what so ever, judging on this article, I suggest you go learn the basics of Islam before you think you can even debate it.

 

The fact to why it took you this long to reply to me does prove you couldn’t respond, and that you were afraid to since you knew I would crush your responses just I had done to your articles. Which I am doing, I await more responses from you so I can expose you some more, and destroy your papers some more, and show the whole world that Answering Islam are just a bunch of missionaries who know nothing about Islam but make themselves like scholars on Islam.

 

So you can continue your cheap shots, but truth stands clear from falsehood, and your falsehood has been exposed for all to see, so keep it up. You are doing a great service to Islam and a great service to me and the other Muslims on this website, since we can all see how terrible the arguments of you missionaries really are!

 

Praise Allah the true God! Ameen

 

Further recommended reading:

 

https://www.answering-christianity.com/examining_sam_shamoun_4.htm

https://www.answering-christianity.com/examining_sam_shamouns_character_5.htm 

(These articles just show how I struck a nerve in Shamoun, and that my articles and rebuttals are really getting to him!)

 

 

 

 

 

Rebuttals, and exposing the lies of the Answering Islam team section.

Rebuttals to Sam Shamoun's Articles section.

A Muslim's Rebuttals section.


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