Author Topic: Is Hell eternal?  (Read 16364 times)

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Offline mclinkin94

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Is Hell eternal?
« on: February 25, 2014, 11:27:35 pm »
I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 11:35:56 pm by mclinkin94 »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 06:22:06 am »
I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

Thank you for bringing back this article :).  I've written it during the early years of this website.  Now that I read it years later, I see that I've made some very solid arguments.  But I removed the article for two reasons:

1-  This is a topic that is very big to Allah Almighty.  Writing shallow articles about it could be very misleading.

2-  During the times when I desperately needed authors and help to help me tackle the OCEAN of the anti-Islamic articles out there, some of the brothers got to the heads of many my authors, and I was forced to take a vote on whether to keep this article or remove it, and it was voted that I should remove it.  So I removed it to keep the unity.  I couldn't take on the infidels by myself.  So I sacrificed the article. 

But still, even after reading the article years later, I still don't feel comfortable about writing shallow articles about such a deep topic like this.  On a side note, this is what bothers me from false religions and cults like Christianity and Shiism.  They make very very serious and deep claims (Jesus is our Creator [1], His Mother is the Goddess of the Universe [1], Ahlul Bayt people are with GOD Almighty ON HIS THRONE, and His Throne is "under their feet" [2], and that we must seek them for Forgiveness, Mercy, Guidance, Aid [2], etc...) about GOD Almighty that are VERY SERIOUS yet based on very shallow opinions and arguments.  I don't want to be on the same boat as those deviant people, who are the lords of nonsense and noise.



Will a Camel really go through a Needle's Eye?

Let us look at the following Verses:

‏7:40 ان الذين كذبوا باياتنا واستكبروا عنها لاتفتح لهم ابواب السماء ولايدخلون الجنة حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط وكذلك نجزي المجرمين

"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.  (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'  When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?'  Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 19:23-26)"   


Like I said, this article was written during the early years of the website.  I mean, I know well that the Verses that were mentioned (brother Haleem sent them to me) about the Camel going through the needle's eyes from both the Bible and the Holy Quran gave a very sound argument, and quite frankly I till this day love this argument, but I fear there is much to it than what appears on the surface.  We have to be very careful when we exegete the Holy Quran, akhi.  We can't just carelessly write articles.  I also don't want to be making claims such as these if they turn out to be false.  This is almost very personal with GOD Almighty.

Also, the camel going through the needle's eye argument isn't complete for the following reasons:

1-  Allah Almighty could've really meant that it is impossible for the disbelievers to leave Hell, and that Allah Almighty spoke about it in our limited logic and language.

2-  Prophet Jesus' (peace be upon him) Saying about the camel and the needle's eye in the Bible isn't 100% authentic, nor is it Quran.  Therefore, we can't base an entire belief on it.

But yet at the same time, nothing is impossible with Allah Almighty.  So:

1-  Will Allah Almighty really make a camel go through a needle's eye in the Life after and end all punishments in Hell?

2-  Will Allah Almighty eventually empty all Hell, because He is the Most Merciful?

3-  Did not Christ say in the verse above that nothing is impossible with GOD Almighty?

4-  I remember an old American Christian friend of mine told me once that "the needle's eye" also referred to fortresses' openings in the old days where they launched arrows against the incoming enemy from.  So if there is a big enough opening, then certainly a small camel could probably pass through it.

If you also google it, then you'll find that it could also mean a castle's gate.

5-  So will Allah Almighty have a fortress with some opening, or an opening (that would be called a needle's eye) be made in the Life After, and have a Camel pass through it to end all of Hell's punishments?

6-  Will or Would this "needle eye" be referring to an Entrance to Heaven, if Heaven were considered a "fortress"?  So would a Camel pass through one of Heaven's Gates?  Notice again in the Noble Verse above "....no opening will there be of the gates of heaven...."

I don't know, and I don't know if Hell will eventually become empty or not.  I can't make a claim that I am not 100% sure about regarding this, especially on topics like this.  I incline towards Hell will eventually become empty.  After all, Allah Almighty intended for all, including satan himself (who was in Heaven before), to be all in Heaven with GOD Almighty under His Eternal and Divine Love, Mercy, Generosity, Kindness, and most of all Under Him to Worship Him and to Glorify Him for Ever.  But then again, I don't know.  This is one of the mysteries of the unknown, and it was made unknown for us on purpose by Allah Almighty:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"  (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).  May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi Mclinkin94.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline mclinkin94

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2014, 10:40:29 am »
I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

Thank you for bringing back this article :).  I've written it during the early years of this website.  Now that I read it years later, I see that I've made some very solid arguments.  But I removed the article for two reasons:

1-  This is a topic that is very big to Allah Almighty.  Writing shallow articles about it could be very misleading.

2-  During the times when I desperately needed authors and help to help me tackle the OCEAN of the anti-Islamic articles out there, some of the brothers got to the heads of many my authors, and I was forced to take a vote on whether to keep this article or remove it, and it was voted that I should remove it.  So I removed it to keep the unity.  I couldn't take on the infidels by myself.  So I sacrificed the article. 

But still, even after reading the article years later, I still don't feel comfortable about writing shallow articles about such a deep topic like this.  On a side note, this is what bothers me from false religions and cults like Christianity and Shiism.  They make very very serious and deep claims (Jesus is our Creator [1], His Mother is the Goddess of the Universe [1], Ahlul Bayt people are with GOD Almighty ON HIS THRONE, and His Throne is "under their feet" [2], and that we must seek them for Forgiveness, Mercy, Guidance, Aid [2], etc...) about GOD Almighty that are VERY SERIOUS yet based on very shallow opinions and arguments.  I don't want to be on the same boat as those deviant people, who are the lords of nonsense and noise.



Will a Camel really go through a Needle's Eye?

Let us look at the following Verses:

‏7:40 ان الذين كذبوا باياتنا واستكبروا عنها لاتفتح لهم ابواب السماء ولايدخلون الجنة حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط وكذلك نجزي المجرمين

"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.  (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'  When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?'  Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 19:23-26)"   


Like I said, this article was written during the early years of the website.  I mean, I know well that the Verses that were mentioned (brother Haleem sent them to me) about the Camel going through the needle's eyes from both the Bible and the Holy Quran gave a very sound argument, and quite frankly I till this day love this argument, but I fear there is much to it than what appears on the surface.  We have to be very careful when we exegete the Holy Quran, akhi.  We can't just carelessly write articles.  I also don't want to be making claims such as these if they turn out to be false.  This is almost very personal with GOD Almighty.

Also, the camel going through the needle's eye argument isn't complete for the following reasons:

1-  Allah Almighty could've really meant that it is impossible for the disbelievers to leave Hell, and that Allah Almighty spoke about it in our limited logic and language.

2-  Prophet Jesus' (peace be upon him) Saying about the camel and the needle's eye in the Bible isn't 100% authentic, nor is it Quran.  Therefore, we can't base an entire belief on it.

But yet at the same time, nothing is impossible with Allah Almighty.  So:

1-  Will Allah Almighty really make a camel go through a needle's eye in the Life after and end all punishments in Hell?

2-  Will Allah Almighty eventually empty all Hell, because He is the Most Merciful?

3-  Did not Christ say in the verse above that nothing is impossible with GOD Almighty?

4-  I remember an old American Christian friend of mine told me once that "the needle's eye" also referred to fortresses' openings in the old days where they launched arrows against the incoming enemy from.  So if there is a big enough opening, then certainly a small camel could probably pass through it.

If you also google it, then you'll find that it could also mean a castle's gate.

5-  So will Allah Almighty have a fortress with some opening, or an opening (that would be called a needle's eye) be made in the Life After, and have a Camel pass through it to end all of Hell's punishments?

6-  Will or Would this "needle eye" be referring to an Entrance to Heaven, if Heaven were considered a "fortress"?  So would a Camel pass through one of Heaven's Gates?  Notice again in the Noble Verse above "....no opening will there be of the gates of heaven...."

I don't know, and I don't know if Hell will eventually become empty or not.  I can't make a claim that I am not 100% sure about regarding this, especially on topics like this.  I incline towards Hell will eventually become empty.  After all, Allah Almighty intended for all, including satan himself (who was in Heaven before), to be all in Heaven with GOD Almighty under His Eternal and Divine Love, Mercy, Generosity, Kindness, and most of all Under Him to Worship Him and to Glorify Him for Ever.  But then again, I don't know.  This is one of the mysteries of the unknown, and it was made unknown for us on purpose by Allah Almighty:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"  (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).  May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi Mclinkin94.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Thanks for letting me in on the detail! I knew this article had a similar format to Answering-Christianity and the arguments were very solid and well-written!

I think you had good reasons to delete that article, it is a very deep topic that is very controversial. Many Muslims I would say believe that hell is eternal. When you start showing them that the Quran may suggest that it isn't eternal, you would hurt Islamic unity.

I'm glad I have found both articles, they were very eye-opening and well written!

You provided a linguistic basis to show that hell may not be eternal.

I agreed with the camel passing through a needle point. I actually disregarded that in the article myself. Initially, I was thinking "why would anyone use the bible (a potentially corrupt source) to translate the Quran?". In my opinion, the Quran should never be translated by any source outside of itself. Especially a potentially corrupted source. So I definitely agree with your point.

Secondly, Allah could make a camel pass through a needle point if he choses to. This means, that everyone would be in hell as long as Allah wills. I agree with this point as well. But it could also mean that the camel would never pass through the needle so punishment is eternal.

It looks as if Allah has allowed BOTH interpretations in the Quran, and there may be a divine reason for this. You even addressed this reason in your article (that is how good that article is!). If Allah directly told everyone that hell will be emptied, sinners would have the confidence to keep on sinning. Allah would indirectly show you that hell may be emptied so that he could show his compassion.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2014, 01:20:16 am »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94 and everyone,

I thought his would be of an interest to everyone: https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+space+needle.  Apparently, the term "needle" is also used today.  I learned about "Space Needle" from the following CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/us/seattle-helicopter-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline shabeer_hassan

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 06:29:53 am »
ETERNAL HELL FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW THE SHIRK:

43: 74. Verily, the Mujrimûn (criminals, sinners, disbelievers, etc.) will be in the torment of Hell to abide therein forever.

2:81. Yes! Whosoever earns evil and his sin has surrounded him, they are dwellers of the Fire (i.e. Hell); they will dwell therein forever

EXCEPT SHIRK ALLHA FORGIVEN,WE DON'T ,HOW MANY DAY/YEAR ALLHA KEEP IN HELL...................................


Offline JesusisGod

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 11:16:22 pm »
The problem with Allah allowing Someone into heaven after a certain amount of punishment in hell is that it takes away God's hatred of sin. If He doesn't punish sin eternally then He doesn't hate sin. This is not a case I've heard any Muslim make most Muslims I meet agree that sin is a problem between humanity and God. As far as Allah being the most merciful this is not the case with a half punishment in hell because the ones who are supposed to receive mercy are being punished. Mercy is not receiving what you deserve for wronging somebody. In this case they do receive punishment so Allah is not being merciful towards them. At least not the most merciful because certainly there are even some humans who have forgiven someone completely and without cause for retribution. If God is the greatest possible being in existence then He can't forgive half way. God is obligated by His great nature to forgive completely when He chooses to forgive.  I see the approach the man is taking in arguing for this position but I believe it perverts Gods holy character to say He will allow some one into heaven after punishment. What God does he does infinitely if He love's someone he will love them infinitely if He rejects someone he will do so infinitely if He forgives someone He will do so infinitely. What this teaching suggests is that people make it to heaven on different merits either because they were forgiven or because they finished with the punishment Allah had for them in which case he is not the most merciful but merely fulfilling justice in punishing someone for their sins that is if Allah's punishment is not eternal. Which I believe the quran teaches that it is and if it is he is not being just in his punishment to allow some into heaven after punishment. The biggest problem with Muslims concept of God is their idea of forgiveness. How can God be a just judge if He is also forgiving/merciful. How does any one make it to heaven if we have all transgressed God's laws either by going against our God given conscious or against the laws written in holy books. God by his very just and holy (perfect) nature has to judge and reject us for our imperfections because if He accepts any one without a punishment then He is not just. If He is not just how can He judge? I think the real question here is How can God forgive.           

Offline shabeer_hassan

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2014, 10:03:50 am »
WHAT FOOLISH WAS THAT?

CONSIDER A JUDGE ORDER ONE BEAT FOR 1$ THEFT ,CONSIDER 2 PERSON ,A & B,A STEAL 5$ AND B STEAL 1$,AS A JUSTER ,JUDGE GIVES 5 BEAT FOR A & 1 BEAT FOR B,.......
ANY FOOLISH PPL SAYS,JUDGE NOT A JUSTER BEC'S OF HE GIVES ONE BEAT TO A......PUNISHMENT BEING MORAL,ONE SHOULD UNDERSTAND THE DEPTH OF HUMAN SOUL.....
Allah know the Ghaib (unseen)
6: 59. And with Him are the keys of the Ghaib (all that is hidden), none knows them but He. And He knows whatever there is in (or on) the earth and in the sea; not a leaf falls, but he knows it. There is not a grain in the darkness of the earth nor anything fresh or dry, but is written in a Clear Record.
11: 123. And to Allâh belongs the Ghaib (unseen) of the heavens and the earth, and to Him return all affairs (for decision). So worship Him (O Muhammad SAW) and put your trust in Him. And your Lord is not unaware of what you (people) do."
27: 65. Say: "None in the heavens and the earth knows the Ghaib (unseen) except Allâh, nor can they perceive when they shall be resurrected."
34: 48. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Verily! My Lord sends down Inspiration and makes apparent the truth (i.e. this Revelation that had come to me), the AllKnower of the Ghaib (unseen).
39: 46. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O Allâh! Creator of the heavens and the earth! All-Knower of the Ghaib (unseen) and the seen. You will judge between your slaves about that wherein they used to differ."
33: 2. He knows that which goes into the earth and that which comes forth from it, and that which descend from the heaven and that which ascends to it. And He is the Most Merciful, the OftForgiving.
3. Those who disbelieve say: "The Hour will not come to us." Say: "Yes, by my Lord, it will come to you." (Allâh, He is) the AllKnower of the unseen, not even the weight of an atom (or a small ant) or less than that or greater, escapes from His Knowledge in the heavens or in the earth, but it is in a Clear Book (AlLauh AlMahfûz).
34: 48. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Verily! My Lord sends down Inspiration and makes apparent the truth (i.e. this Revelation that had come to me), the AllKnower of the Ghaib (unseen).
40: 19. Allâh knows the fraud of the eyes, and all that the breasts conceal.
18. Verily, Allâh knows the unseen of the heavens and the earth. And Allâh is the All-Seer of what you do.
53: 30. That is what they could reach of knowledge. Verily, your Lord it is He Who knows best him who goes astray from His Path, and He knows best him who receives guidance.
59: 22. He is Allâh, than Whom there is Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He) the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen (open). He is the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
62: 8. Say (to them): "Verily, the death from which you flee will surely meet you, then you will be sent back to (Allâh), the All-Knower of the unseen and the seen, and He will tell you what you used to do."
64: 2. He it is Who created you, then some of you are disbelievers and some of you are believers. And Allâh is All-Seer of what you do.
64: 4. He knows what is in the heavens and on earth, and He knows what you conceal and what you reveal. And Allâh is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).
64: 18. All-Knower of the unseen and seen, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
65: 12. It is Allâh Who has created seven heavens and of the earth the like thereof (i.e. seven). His Command descends between them (heavens and earth), that you may know that Allâh has power over all things, and that Allâh surrounds (comprehends) all things in (His) Knowledge.
67: 13. And whether you keep your talk secret or disclose it, verily, He is the All-Knower of what is in the breasts (of men).
14. Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves) All-Aware (of everything).
67: 26. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "The knowledge (of its exact time) is with Allâh only, and I am only a plain warner."
68: 7. Verily, your Lord knows better, who (among men) has gone astray from His Path, and He knows better those who are guided.
17: 49. And they say: "When we are bones and fragments (destroyed), should we really be resurrected (to be) a new creation?"
50. Say (O Muhammad SAW) "Be you stones or iron,"
51. "Or some created thing that is yet greater (or harder) in your breasts (thoughts to be resurrected, even then you shall be resurrected)" Then, they will say: "Who shall bring us back (to life)?" Say: "He Who created you first!" Then, they will shake their heads at you and say: "When will that be ?" Say: "Perhaps it is near!"
17: 98. That is their recompense, because they denied Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) and said: "When we are bones and fragments, shall we really be raised up as a new creation?"
99. See they not that Allâh, Who created the heavens and the earth, is Able to create the like of them. And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.) refuse (the truth the Message of Islâmic Monotheism, and accept nothing) but disbelief.
31: 28. The creation of you all and the resurrection of you all are only as (the creation and resurrection of) a single person. Verily, Allâh is AllHearer, AllSeer.
19: 66. And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"
67. Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?
20: 15. "Verily, the Hour is coming and My Will is to keep it hidden that every person may be rewarded for that which he strives.
16. "Therefore, let not the one who believes not therein (i.e. in the Day of Resurrection, Reckoning, Paradise and Hell, etc.), but follows his own lusts, divert you therefrom, lest you perish.
36: 12. Verily, We give life to the dead, and We record that which they send before (them), and their traces [their footsteps and walking on the earth with their legs to the mosques for the five compulsory congregational prayers, Jihâd (holy fighting in Allâh's Cause) and all other good and evil they did, and that which they leave behind], and all things We have recorded with numbers (as a record) in a Clear Book.
36: 78.  And he puts forth for Us a parable, and forgets his own creation. He says: "Who will give life to these bones when they have rotted away and became dust?"
79. Say: (O Muhammad SAW) "He will give life to them Who created them for the first time! And He is the All-Knower of every creation!"
80. He, Who produces for you fire out of the green tree, when behold! You kindle therewith.
81. Is not He, Who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the like of them? Yes, indeed! He is the All-Knowing Supreme Creator.
82. Verily, His Command, when He intends a thing, is only that He says to it, "Be!" and it is!
39: 41. Verily, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad SAW) the Book (this Qur'ân) for mankind in truth. So whosoever accepts the guidance, it is only for his ownself, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his (own) loss. And you (O Muhammad SAW) are not a Wakîl (trustee or disposer of affairs, or keeper) over them.

Offline JesusisGod

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2015, 11:45:25 pm »
Again i post here that eternal separation from God or eternal death are the only just punishment for any sin no matter the size it may very well be that the author of the quran may not have a clear understanding of sin and it's consequences,but in this case I think it is the reader that has come to a wrong conclusion trying to justify himself before God. All men are guilty of sin you know that if God were not patient toward us none would be left alive right now. Why try to say that some is worse than others they are all the same corruption breeds corruption and none of it should be left unpunished no matter the size if a man steals one dollar he will soon steal a million. We know that the only reason they stop is because they are caught and fear punishment. Even if a man never steals again in his mind he is forever corrupt and temptation if it is resisted is resisted because of impending judgement. Still don't understand how can accept anybody if we are all sinners.     

Offline submit

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2015, 12:15:10 am »
Again i post here that eternal separation from God or eternal death are the only just punishment for any sin no matter the size it may very well be that the author of the quran may not have a clear understanding of sin and it's consequences

God create humans and gave death to humans so that later He can grant eternal life to humans for a reason. One to show that none is similar to Him Unique and Everlasting.
Second, eternal life for eternal reward and eternal punishment. Eternal punishment are for those that have accepted covenant from God but later opposing the covenant by making partners or equals to God.

In Islam , the Almighty Creator will judge fairly. If good deeds outweigh sins. You enter heaven. However one particular sin that will cause human not able to outweigh the sin would be making partners and equals to God. Or believe that God split into many gods by incarnations or manifestations thus causing qualities among new form of gods.

Offline fadi

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2016, 05:33:42 pm »
As’salamo Alaikum brother Osama,

I read http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm and then read your post "Will Allah Almighty really make a camel go through a needle's eye in the Life after and end all punishments in Hell?" I just want to comment on it.

Allah gave mankind including Prophet Mohammad little knowledge:
(17:85) They are asking thee concerning the Spirit. Say: The Spirit is by command of my Lord, and of knowledge ye have been vouchsafed but little.

Among the little knowledge that Allah revealed to mankind is that He doesn’t forgive those who associate anything with Him:
(4:48) Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.

How then hell fire is not eternal (no end)?

How about (103:1-3) I swear by the time, Indeed, mankind is in loss,  Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.

Offline fadi

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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2016, 09:55:41 am »
As’salamo Alaikum,

After reading all the articles in this post, I decided to elaborate further.

•   Allah is merciful to those who deserve His mercy:

(7:156) …He said: I smite with My punishment whom I will, and My mercy embraceth all things, therefore I shall ordain it for those who ward off (evil) and pay the poor-due, and those who believe Our revelations

•   How about the evil people:

(2:124) … [Allah] said, "My covenant does not include the wrongdoers”

•   Before Allah created us, He made us testify that He is our Lord (Allah):

(7:172) … and made them testify of themselves, (saying): Am I not your Lord? They said: Yea, verily. We testify. (That was) lest ye should say at the Day of Resurrection: Lo! of this we were unaware

•   Allah also shown mankind the way of evil and good (i.e. His orders in details), and He gave us the option to choose which way to follow. Of course Allah knows what every one of us would choose:
 
1.   (76:3) Lo! We have shown him the way, whether he be grateful or disbelieving.
2.   (90:10) And shown him the two ways (good and evil)?

•   Allah knows that there is no good in the disbeliever even if He shows them every sign, they will not believe:

1.   (8:23) If Allah had found in them any good. He would indeed have made them listen: (As it is), if He had made them listen, they would but have turned back and declined (Faith).

2.   (15:14-15) Even if We opened out to them a gate from heaven, and they were to continue (all day) ascending therein, They would only say: "Our eyes have been intoxicated: Nay, we have been bewitched by sorcery."

•   Allah didn’t allow compulsion into Islam because He made everything clear:

(2:256) There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path…

•   Allah doesn’t need anyone to teach Quran. He alone teaches Quran to those who knew that they are good. As we hear today, there are many non-Muslims converting to Islam while they have never met a Muslim nor knew anything about Islam. All what’s happened, they read few pages about Islam by accident, and they immediately believed in Islam:

1.   (55:1-2) The Most Merciful; It is He Who has taught the Qur'an.

2.   (5:16) Wherewith Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight.

•   Also, we all know that there are many non-Muslims who are expert in Quran and they teach it in American Universities but they don’t believe in it. The reason for this is because as I mentioned above, Allah knew that there is no good in them:
 
(2:6) Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.

•   Allah knows all things including what we conceal in our hearts. Allah also did not deliver for disbelievers Quran because they are arrogates:

(7:146) I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

•   How about those who are doing good deeds from among the disbelievers? Allah said about them that they think that they are doing good.

1.   (7:30) … they choose the devils for protecting supporters instead of Allah and deem that they are rightly guided.

2.   What will happen to the deeds that they did? Allah said that He will not accept it. (25:23) And We shall turn unto the work they did and make it scattered motes.

•   Allah said in (6:128) and (11:107) that the disbelievers will dwell in hell fire for ever “except as Allah willeth”. This means “except those who Allah willeth not to enter hell fire i.e. the believers”. In other words, “The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except those who believed”.

1.   (6:128) …He will say: "The Fire be your dwelling-place: you will dwell therein for ever, except as Allah willeth."…

2.   (11:107) They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: for thy Lord is the (sure) accomplisher of what He planneth.

•   Allah also said in (11:108) that the believers will dwell in paradise forever “except as thy Lord willeth”. Again it means that “except those who Allah willeth not to enter paradise i.e. the disbelievers”.

(11:108) And those who are blessed shall be in the Garden: They will dwell therein for all the time that the heavens and the earth endure, except as thy Lord willeth: a gift without break.

•   One may think that Allah may make a camel pass through a needle point and end hell fire because He is Merciful, Generous and He alone knows the unseen. I agree, but Allah also informed us in Quran about certain things and thus those things become known for mankind. For instance, the disbelievers knew that Allah said in (36:82) when He intends a thing, He only says "be", and it will happen. They also knew that Allah said in (85:16) He does what He wills. They even acknowledged that they will enter hell fire for a few days as in (3:24). When Allah said “until camel pass through the needle point”, He wants to make it crystal clear for them that it’s impossible to enter Heaven because camel will never be able to enter through the needle point as they see this in their naked eyes. Perhaps, the Arab used to say this idiom to describe “something is impossible to happen” at that time, thus Allah communicated with them in the same language!

•   According to Quran, hell fire and heaven are both eternal (no end), but with different levels of torment and pleasure; and Allah will never change His promise. 

(68:35-38) Shall We then treat the People of Faith like the People of Sin? What is the matter with you? How judge ye? Or have ye a book through which ye learn; That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?

(43:76) And We did not wrong them, but it was they who were the wrongdoers.

If you have any suggestions, please feel free to reply.

May Allah guide all of us to the straight path.


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Re: Is Hell eternal?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2017, 11:43:33 pm »
From http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2839.msg13548.html#msg13548:


Noble Verse 7:40 is talking about the infidels who are arrogant towards the Miracles of Islam.  Not arrogant people in general.  And the Bible specifically speaks about rich people, not arrogant people.  Arrogant people can be from the poor and the rich, especially the ones who are arrogant towards Islam.  The Noble Verse referred to those.

The comparison here is off.  The Bible is corrupt for making a general statement about the rich people.  There is nothing wrong about being rich!  Period.  This contradiction between the OT and NT is clear garbage from the Bible.  Again, the OT warns all, especially the poor, to not covet.


Ironically, Jesus did NOTHING BUT COVETING during his 40 days and nights of temptation from satan.  He got so bad and so weak that Angels had to come down to help him, literally "attend him".  He was having "evil desires", and he "suffered" from satan's temptations. These quotes are straight out of the Bible:

www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm





Divine Promise to Empty Hell:

Let us analyze Noble Words حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط in great details:


‏7:40 ان الذين كذبوا باياتنا واستكبروا عنها لاتفتح لهم ابواب السماء ولايدخلون الجنة حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط وكذلك نجزي المجرمين

"....the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle حتى يلج الجمل في سم الخياط...." (The Glorious Quran, 7:40)


1-  Noble Word حتى (until) speaks about a time to come.


2-  Noble Word يلج (enter) can also mean merge:

[022:061]  That is because God merges يولج night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is God Who hears and sees (all things).

[031:029]  Seest thou not that God merges يولج Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that God is well-acquainted with all that ye do?

Noble Word يولج is derived from يلج.


3-  Noble Word سم (eye) does not mean eye.  It is referring to Hell.  This is the same Word used for the creation of the Jinn:

‏15:27 والجان خلقناه من قبل من نار السموم

[015:027]  And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire. نار السموم

السموم  is derived from سم


4-  Noble Word الخياط (needle) here can also refer to the Cluster of Hell's structure, since the Noble Word really means threading.  Not an actual needle.  Or it could refer to a specific place or point near the Gates of Hell:

From https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%AE%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B7/:

خياط means:

Maker of costumes
Tailor
A maker of clothes

From Google Translate:

Threading means خيوط, which is sister word to خياط, and both of them are derived from خيط:

FromGoogle Translate.

Thread means خيط, which is what خياط is derived from.



The Cosmic Webs and Clusters in the Quran:

Allah Almighty did talk about the Cosmic Webs and Clusters of the Universe in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/cosmic_web_miracle.htm

So it is quite possible that Noble Word الخياط is referring to a complex Structure and Clusters of Hell.



Also, similar to BURAQ, Prophet Muhammad's Angel-Horse, that ascended the Prophet to Heaven and back to Earth, it seems that there is an ANGEL-CAMEL that will ultimately go through an eye of a needle, - perhaps a location near the Gates of Hell called a needle, - and after this event, Allah Almighty will order for all inhabitants of Hell to be sent up to Heaven.

This statement from Allah Almighty is not a statement of impossibility.  It is clearly a Divine Promise and Prophecy of an event that will take place, and will mark the End of all Torture in Hell:

www.answering-christianity.com/hell.htm

And Allah Almighty always Knows Best.




Could one be taken from Heaven into Hell?

Is it possible that one who is in Heaven end up taken to Hell?  Will we have Free Wills in Heaven?  Could some stray in their thoughts and actions to a point of blasphemy?  We know Iblees (Iblis), who later became satan got stupid and blasphemed:

www.answering-christianity.com/adam.htm

It is a given in the Glorious Quran that that is quite possible to happen to us too.  So, it is possible that Hell will be used as a cleansing place.  Evil is not permitted in Heaven.  But there will be free wills there, as so did Iblis also have it.  So it is possible that Hell is not a forever place, but rather a cleansing and purifying place of great punishment and pain for a very very very long time.

Again, Allah Almighty Alone always Knows Best.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah