436
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: ALLAH'S HELP
« on: June 10, 2013, 07:19:14 AM »
Excellent explanation brother SAMA. May ALLAH the Most High shower his unending blessings upon you and your family.
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437
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / 15 Questions raised by a Kafir
« on: June 10, 2013, 07:04:37 AM »
A KAFIR asked 15 Questions. Below are the Questions. I got it from an anti-Islamic site.As it might mislead the muslims I am not posting the link to that site. Brother OSAMA please please please answer the Questions so that I can send them to that Kafir.
The Kafir says,
"
Here’re my questions to Muslims:
Q1. Why would God want his creation to not ask, questions, criticize, debate or experiment ideas that he gave us? This can only happen to cover up lies. This is the reason why we can’t question clergy about things like What’s the proof that God exists and what’s the proof that Muhammad is the prophet of God. Seems like a great deceit to make sheep out of humans. Only truth can stand the fierce scrutiny and criticism and still stand tall.
Q2. Why would God make religions appear only in poor, illiterate and desert areas? 1400 years ago, Greek were more scientific and progressive, why religion didn’t appear there instead? I tell you why. Because Muhammad could have only mislead the gullible, ignorant and poor people. In fact, his first followers were actually poor. Rich and literate people thought of him as crazy. Even today, if I go to a illiterate village and proclaim myself as a big saint, millions will follow me. That’s how easy it is to make stupid people more stupid. That’s why you don’t see new religions forming in Europe.
Q3. If there is Science in Islam, why didn’t God tell us how old the Universe is, how old Earth is, whether it is round or flat, how long it took for it to cool down, how Life began, how Life evolved? It seems that Allah knew only things that were already known at that time by the Greek and ancient scientists and philosophers. If I start a religion today, I wouldn’t forget to add an ayat, “And thou will not spread mischief in the earth which took us fifteen billion years to make. There are altogether eleven dimensions, yet the unbelievers deny our signs.†Ridiculous!
Q4. Why Abrahamic religions, specifically Islam is exclusivist? How can a truth be confined to some people and not others (people living in other places, other times etc. can’t be all wrong). Buddhism on the other hand is not exclusivist like Islam. Buddha even said don’t believe me, don’t believe your holy books, don’t believe what people say, but believe only what’s true to your heart and mind, because truth can only come from inside, not outside (outside = scriptures, prophets, gods).
Q5. Why would God care about whether people believe in him or not? The creator of the universes and each and every atom in them, can’t be so narrow minded, arrogant or stupid. Because arrogance means ‘covering up negative feelings about self’ and genuine God would rather be full of self-esteem than arrogance. God’s name being ‘Al-Mutakab-bir’ is beyond me.
Q6. Why would God choose a mass murderer, rapist, blasphemer, pedophile, madman and power and sex hungry person as his prophet? Marriage with 9 year old Aisha, Marriage with his daughter-in-law Zainab, Marriage with Javairah, his slave after killing his father, husband and brother the same day, killing others just because they don’t believed him, killing someone if they change their religion, killing without reason, spreading Islam not with discussion, logic or spirituality but with murder and war is beyond me.
Q7. Ali Sina says that Muhammad was a mentally sick person or what you call a narcissist having temporal lobe epilepsy. I watched a video on ‘Temporal Lobe Epilepsy’ on YouTube. It is a BBC documentary and the way it describes about the experiences of people with sensitive temporal lobe resembles exactly how Muhammad acted when he used to get revelations, sweating, feeling guilty and sad, feeling that he’ll go mad and that sort of thing. Furthermore, why an angle would make him feel so demonic and depressed is beyond me? Aren’t we humans supposed to experience something enlightening, happy and peaceful when such alleged experiences take place?
Q8. Why shouldn’t we accept for others, laws and morals we deem perfect for ourselves. That’s the only measure of truth. If I speak truth, do good, be gentle, I would want the same to happen to all people. Following this logic, if a Muslim who becomes a Hindu should be killed, shouldn’t we teach these great laws to all other religions. Shouldn’t Hindus, Christians and Jews also kill people who become Muslims? Why not? If what we regard as moral and as truth, shouldn’t that be true to all others?
Q9. It seems that Muhammad was not a nice man, I couldn’t find a single act of kindness from this person in the whole of Islam’s history. The only two stories of kindness were the story of Jew lady who used to throw garbage at prophet and he, at the time of her death came to visit her. And another incident about a young man who used to eat too much sugar and her mother requested Muhammad to ask him to stop it. He didn’t ask him to stop anything but later asked him to stop eating too much sugar because this time around he himself stopped eating too much sugar. Both of these stories are fables and are not found in Quran, Hadiths or the complete Islamic History. If I am wrong, find me any ayat or hadith matching these stories. I will not become apostate if you can tell me a single incident of kindness ever done by Muhammad. Remember, you can’t tell me about what Muhammad said to his followers about how to conduct life and be kind etc. I want his own personal acts of kindness only. Any Schmuck can ask others to do good and himself do otherwise.
Q10. Why a person who is religious is more prone to absurdities and away from reality of life? Why an educated person is less likely to be religious? Doesn’t that mean that religion is for the gullible, weak and immature? Why was Einstein, the most intelligent person who walked on earth was not religious. If it didn’t worked for him (most intelligent) How can you claim that you know better? If he worked it out without religion, why it won’t work for you?
Q11. If God created us and sent Adam from Heaven to Earth, why are there fossils found for all early primates that were neither chimp nor humans? Checkout this link. What does God created something actually mean? Wherever science looks, it finds some process involved, no magic! Is God subjugated to natural laws? In our present lives we don’t see magic happening, no waters parted, no virgin births, no moons being cut and no back to the future Miraj happening. Humans have always attributed magical thinking to past and future events to make a sense of the world they live in. In other words, ‘I didn’t see it happen therefore magic man did it!’ Doesn’t it make sense?
Q12. If we have souls and are either to go to heaven or hell, why don’t animals have souls? Since we’ve evolved from animals, and early humans like homo erectus or homo habilis were intelligent too (slightly lower than us) would they also be judged on the judgment day? If not, why not? They didn’t have any prophets too, because their brains didn’t think in malignant ways like us. We are more clever. Doesn’t that prove that the more clever we get the more potential we have to become notorious and the most likely it is for a God to appear out of no where? (God didn’t made us in his own image, we made God in our own image).
Q13. Buddhists are more moral than Muslims. They won’t burn embassies, temples and churches to prove they are true. They don’t believe in a God. Does it not mean that morality doesn’t depend upon God or absolute laws but inner resolve and commitment? Only immature and morally bankrupt people need fear of hell or greed of heaven to be moral.
Q14. If Quran is the Guidance from God, why can it be shaped in any way of thinking imaginable? A book of guidance from God should be straight forward and objective rather than being subjective and full of discrepancies. But it seems our Omniscient God thinks like humans and learns via trial and error.
Q15. If the only reason one should stick to religion is because of the uncertainties of the afterlife, what if it turned out that, there in fact is a God who tested us all to see whether we become fools at the hands of authority, religion and society or discover the truth and reality of life. All those who allow themselves to become fools may end up in hell and all those who turn to truth and reality are given heaven. Doesn’t it seem more rational for a thinking person to assume, by observing all the multitudes of religions in the world than to follow Islam?
If no Muslim can answer my questions above within one month, I would consider all my accusations along with my questions as true and would proclaim my apostasy (Period).
Peace!
Nothing But Truth."
The Kafir says,
"
Here’re my questions to Muslims:
Q1. Why would God want his creation to not ask, questions, criticize, debate or experiment ideas that he gave us? This can only happen to cover up lies. This is the reason why we can’t question clergy about things like What’s the proof that God exists and what’s the proof that Muhammad is the prophet of God. Seems like a great deceit to make sheep out of humans. Only truth can stand the fierce scrutiny and criticism and still stand tall.
Q2. Why would God make religions appear only in poor, illiterate and desert areas? 1400 years ago, Greek were more scientific and progressive, why religion didn’t appear there instead? I tell you why. Because Muhammad could have only mislead the gullible, ignorant and poor people. In fact, his first followers were actually poor. Rich and literate people thought of him as crazy. Even today, if I go to a illiterate village and proclaim myself as a big saint, millions will follow me. That’s how easy it is to make stupid people more stupid. That’s why you don’t see new religions forming in Europe.
Q3. If there is Science in Islam, why didn’t God tell us how old the Universe is, how old Earth is, whether it is round or flat, how long it took for it to cool down, how Life began, how Life evolved? It seems that Allah knew only things that were already known at that time by the Greek and ancient scientists and philosophers. If I start a religion today, I wouldn’t forget to add an ayat, “And thou will not spread mischief in the earth which took us fifteen billion years to make. There are altogether eleven dimensions, yet the unbelievers deny our signs.†Ridiculous!
Q4. Why Abrahamic religions, specifically Islam is exclusivist? How can a truth be confined to some people and not others (people living in other places, other times etc. can’t be all wrong). Buddhism on the other hand is not exclusivist like Islam. Buddha even said don’t believe me, don’t believe your holy books, don’t believe what people say, but believe only what’s true to your heart and mind, because truth can only come from inside, not outside (outside = scriptures, prophets, gods).
Q5. Why would God care about whether people believe in him or not? The creator of the universes and each and every atom in them, can’t be so narrow minded, arrogant or stupid. Because arrogance means ‘covering up negative feelings about self’ and genuine God would rather be full of self-esteem than arrogance. God’s name being ‘Al-Mutakab-bir’ is beyond me.
Q6. Why would God choose a mass murderer, rapist, blasphemer, pedophile, madman and power and sex hungry person as his prophet? Marriage with 9 year old Aisha, Marriage with his daughter-in-law Zainab, Marriage with Javairah, his slave after killing his father, husband and brother the same day, killing others just because they don’t believed him, killing someone if they change their religion, killing without reason, spreading Islam not with discussion, logic or spirituality but with murder and war is beyond me.
Q7. Ali Sina says that Muhammad was a mentally sick person or what you call a narcissist having temporal lobe epilepsy. I watched a video on ‘Temporal Lobe Epilepsy’ on YouTube. It is a BBC documentary and the way it describes about the experiences of people with sensitive temporal lobe resembles exactly how Muhammad acted when he used to get revelations, sweating, feeling guilty and sad, feeling that he’ll go mad and that sort of thing. Furthermore, why an angle would make him feel so demonic and depressed is beyond me? Aren’t we humans supposed to experience something enlightening, happy and peaceful when such alleged experiences take place?
Q8. Why shouldn’t we accept for others, laws and morals we deem perfect for ourselves. That’s the only measure of truth. If I speak truth, do good, be gentle, I would want the same to happen to all people. Following this logic, if a Muslim who becomes a Hindu should be killed, shouldn’t we teach these great laws to all other religions. Shouldn’t Hindus, Christians and Jews also kill people who become Muslims? Why not? If what we regard as moral and as truth, shouldn’t that be true to all others?
Q9. It seems that Muhammad was not a nice man, I couldn’t find a single act of kindness from this person in the whole of Islam’s history. The only two stories of kindness were the story of Jew lady who used to throw garbage at prophet and he, at the time of her death came to visit her. And another incident about a young man who used to eat too much sugar and her mother requested Muhammad to ask him to stop it. He didn’t ask him to stop anything but later asked him to stop eating too much sugar because this time around he himself stopped eating too much sugar. Both of these stories are fables and are not found in Quran, Hadiths or the complete Islamic History. If I am wrong, find me any ayat or hadith matching these stories. I will not become apostate if you can tell me a single incident of kindness ever done by Muhammad. Remember, you can’t tell me about what Muhammad said to his followers about how to conduct life and be kind etc. I want his own personal acts of kindness only. Any Schmuck can ask others to do good and himself do otherwise.
Q10. Why a person who is religious is more prone to absurdities and away from reality of life? Why an educated person is less likely to be religious? Doesn’t that mean that religion is for the gullible, weak and immature? Why was Einstein, the most intelligent person who walked on earth was not religious. If it didn’t worked for him (most intelligent) How can you claim that you know better? If he worked it out without religion, why it won’t work for you?
Q11. If God created us and sent Adam from Heaven to Earth, why are there fossils found for all early primates that were neither chimp nor humans? Checkout this link. What does God created something actually mean? Wherever science looks, it finds some process involved, no magic! Is God subjugated to natural laws? In our present lives we don’t see magic happening, no waters parted, no virgin births, no moons being cut and no back to the future Miraj happening. Humans have always attributed magical thinking to past and future events to make a sense of the world they live in. In other words, ‘I didn’t see it happen therefore magic man did it!’ Doesn’t it make sense?
Q12. If we have souls and are either to go to heaven or hell, why don’t animals have souls? Since we’ve evolved from animals, and early humans like homo erectus or homo habilis were intelligent too (slightly lower than us) would they also be judged on the judgment day? If not, why not? They didn’t have any prophets too, because their brains didn’t think in malignant ways like us. We are more clever. Doesn’t that prove that the more clever we get the more potential we have to become notorious and the most likely it is for a God to appear out of no where? (God didn’t made us in his own image, we made God in our own image).
Q13. Buddhists are more moral than Muslims. They won’t burn embassies, temples and churches to prove they are true. They don’t believe in a God. Does it not mean that morality doesn’t depend upon God or absolute laws but inner resolve and commitment? Only immature and morally bankrupt people need fear of hell or greed of heaven to be moral.
Q14. If Quran is the Guidance from God, why can it be shaped in any way of thinking imaginable? A book of guidance from God should be straight forward and objective rather than being subjective and full of discrepancies. But it seems our Omniscient God thinks like humans and learns via trial and error.
Q15. If the only reason one should stick to religion is because of the uncertainties of the afterlife, what if it turned out that, there in fact is a God who tested us all to see whether we become fools at the hands of authority, religion and society or discover the truth and reality of life. All those who allow themselves to become fools may end up in hell and all those who turn to truth and reality are given heaven. Doesn’t it seem more rational for a thinking person to assume, by observing all the multitudes of religions in the world than to follow Islam?
If no Muslim can answer my questions above within one month, I would consider all my accusations along with my questions as true and would proclaim my apostasy (Period).
Peace!
Nothing But Truth."
438
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / PLEASE ANSWER THE ALLEGED ERRORS IN THE QURAN By Islam Watch
« on: June 10, 2013, 06:40:14 AM »
A stupid anti-Islamic site claims that A person named Amar khan has exposed the miracles of the Quran. That stupid's article really confused me a lot. Please brothers help me to remove my confusion.I beg of you
Speed of Light in the Qur'an?
Muslims are hard at work trying to find miracles in the Qur'an and each day they "find" something new. They gloat about it and pump themselves, spread the glad tiding across the Internet, publish it in their newspapers, and challenge others to disprove that miracle, until someone shows their error and deflates them like a punctured balloon. This does not slow them. Since they are eager to find miracles, and since there is no end to human gullibility, especially when one WANTS to believe, they find a new miracle every day.
The Claim
In an article published in Islamicity.com, Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby claims the verse 32.5 reveals that light in one day travels a distance equal to 12,000 lunar orbits, and upon calculating that distance we find the exact speed of light.
Here is verse 32:5 translated by Shakir:
“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count..â€
According to Dr. Hassab-Elnaby, "affairs" mentioned in this verse is "light." So this verse reveals that light can travel in one day the distance that will take the Moon, 1000 years to span.
It takes a Muslim's imagination to think this verse has anything to do with the speed of light. There is no mention of moon, light or even distance in this verse. However, let us agree with this assumed interpretation for now and see whether Dr. Hassab-Elnaby has his math right.
Rebuttal
The rebuttal is divided into 7 parts.
1. Wrong Calculation
The average center-to-center distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384,403 km.
The orbit of the Moon is nearly circular. (That is why we see the Moon always with the same size)
This means for the Moon to go a full circle around the Earth it must travel a distance of 2,415,273 km (Circumference of the lunar orbit = 2r π = 2 x 384,403 x 3.14159)
To orbit the earth 12,000 times the Moon must travel 28,983,278,898 km (2.415,273 x 12,000). This is how much the moon travels in 1000 lunar years.
Light travels at a constant speed of 299,792.458 km. per second
There are 86,400 seconds in one day (60x60x24)
In 24 hours, light travels a distance of 25,902,068,371 km (299,792.458 x 86,400).
These two numbers are not the same. They are not even close. There is a difference of 3,081,210,527 km (28,983,278,898 - 25,902,068,371) between the distance traveled by the Moon in 1000 lunar years and the distance traveled by light in one day.
This difference is over twenty times the distance between the Earth and the Sun. So clearly Dr. Hassab-Elnaby got it wrong. The two numbers do not match.
That is not all. There is a difference between lunar month (phases) and lunar orbit. The Moon makes a complete orbit around the Earth every 27.3 days, (siderial month) while the periodic variations in the geometry of the Earth–Moon–Sun system are responsible for the lunar phases that repeat every 29.5 days (synodic month). There is a difference of 2.2 days between the lunar month and the lunar orbit. (Wikipedia)
In one lunar year the Moon revolves around the Earth 12.967 times (29.5 x 12 / 27.3) and not 12 times. So the distance that the Moon travels in 1000 lunar years is actually 32, 045,078,461 km (12,967 x 2,4715,273).
The difference between this distance and the distance traveled by light in one day is 6,143,010,090 km (32, 045,078,461 - 25,902,068,371). It would take light, another 5 hours 41 minutes to travel this extra distance.
Alternatively we can say that the Moon revolves around the Earth 10,724 times to cover the distance that the light travels in 24 hours. (Distance traveled by light in one day 25,902,068,371 km / The orbit of the Moon 2,415,273 km).
It takes only 827 lunar years for the Moon to go this distance and not 1000 lunar years. (10,724 revolutions of the Moon around the Earth x 27.3 days that takes for each revolution / 354 days that exist in each lunar year).
No matter how you look at it Dr. Hassab-Elnaby's calculations are wrong. The distance traveled by the Moon in 1000 years and the distance traveled by light in one day are NOT the same.
We are not even considering the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, which inevitably the Moon must also thread. Taking that into account Dr. Hassab-Elnabi's calculations are 36.6 times off.
2. Wrong Translation
Which part of this verse talks about light or its speed? Dr. Hassab-Elnany writes: "Thus we conclude that the cosmic affair, mentioned in the previous Quranic verse, is identical to LIGHT and all similar cosmic affairs travelling in vacuum with this maximum speed such as: all types of electro magnetic waves propagating between the heavens and the earth, the expected Gravitational waves spreading all over the universe, and all particles travelling in this cosmic greatest spead such as neutrinos."
What a load of nonsense! All Muhammad is saying in this verse is that a day of Allah is 1000 years long. This is his way of saying Allah is big, everything about him is big, and even his days are big. Muhammad repeated the same thing in the verse 22.47
“Verily a day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.â€
There is no mention of affairs going up and down, light, magnetic waves, particles and neutrinos in this verse.
The length of the day is determined by how fast a planet revolves around its axis and it has nothing to do with the size of its inhabitants. All we can understand from this verse is that the creator of the world lives in a very slow revolving planet.
Just to show the absurdity and the confusion in the Qur'an let us see the verse 70:4:
“The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.â€
This verse has a similar content of the verse 32:5, but here it says that the length of the day of God is 50,000 years. This is a clear contradiction. Is a day of God 1000 years or is it 50,000 years? Does it mean that it takes 50,000 years for angels and spirits to reach God? That is awfully slow. Then how could Angel Gabriel take Muhammad to heaven and back in one night? The Qur'an is replete with contradictions and absurdities. Muhammad had found a gullible audience who gobbled everything he told them uncritically. He never thought one day his words will be scrutinized by people smarter than his benighted followers and his lies will be exposed.
3. Wrong Parameters
I am not done yet! There is still more problem with this claim. The speed of light is constant while the rotation of the Earth, thanks to losing its kinetic energy, is slowing down. Therefore, the days of the Earth are becoming longer. Also the Moon is getting away from the Earth and its orbit is widening. To orbit the Earth, the Moon has to travel a little more each time. This means that the length of the lunar months are increasing. How can one measure something that is constant with things that are variable?
Scientists believe that when the Earth was young, it span ten times faster around its axes than it is spinning today. Since the speed of light has remained the same all along, 4.5 billion years ago, in one day light traveled one tenth of the distance that it travels today.
There are nearly 4.5 million thousand years since the Moon is orbiting the Earth. As the Moon distances from the Earth it is slowing down. Since each millennium the orbit of the Moon and the Length of the day change, in which one of these 4.5 million millennia the Moon traveled the same distance that the light travels in one day? The claim is wrong, but even if true, only one time out of 4.5 million times the two numbers could match. Then again even a broken watch is right twice every day.
The very notion of measuring the speed of light with the orbit of the Moon or the length of the day is a fallacy, that is because the yardstick is constantly changing. Such an error only reveals the lack of understanding of Dr. Hassab-Elnaby of the basic principles of science.
4. Wrong Interpretation
The verse talks about the “affairs of God†being sent to Earth and then ascending to Him in one day, the length of which is 1000 years. How on Earth this educated slave of Allah has determined that "affairs" means light? The word used in Arabic is Amr. It means commandment, order, cause, and affair. This is an allusion to God’s religion and not to light. Amrullah means the Cause of God. A more accurate translation of this verse is, God sends his Cause to Earth, which will return to Him, i.e. it will be revoked in one day, the length of which is equal to 1000 years.
This is how Sheikh Ahmad Ahsai (1753–1826), founder of Shiite Sheikhieh school and his disciple Seyyed Kazim-i-Rashti (1792–1843) interpreted this verse. They claimed Islam does no longer meet the needs of the time and since it does not allow reform, it must be abrogated. However, since no one can abrogate the word of God but God himself, this task rests on the shoulders of the awaited Mahdi, the Promised One of the Shiites. Ahsai and Rashti said the end of Islam and the appearance of Mahdi has already been foretold in the Hadith and the Qur'an, and verse 32:5 gives the exact date.
According to these eminent scholars, Amrullah, the cause of God, was completed when the last intermediary between God and Mankind, Imam Hassan Askari died. Hassan Askari died in the lunar year 260 Hijra. Ahsai believed that since, according to the verse 32:5, one thousand years after the communication between God and mankind is interrupted the cause of God (Islam) would be revoked: يَعْرُجُ إِلَيْهِ ,
Mahdi should manifest himself in the year 1260 Hijra (1844 EC)
Seyyed Kazem Rashti died one year before the expected year. He, was so sure that Mahdi would manifest himself in the coming year that he did not appoint any successor. He dissolved the Sheikhieh school ordering his disciples to scatter around Persia to find him. It was in this heightened atmosphere of expectation that the 26 year old Seyyed Ali Mohammad, native of Shiraz, claimed to be the Bab, the Gate to divine understanding, the Promised One. Thanks to his sincerity and Christ like innocence he attracted most of the students of Seyyed Kazem and in a short time the Babi movement became so popular that it took the country by storm. The amazing success of the Babis in converting the Iranians was seen as a threat by the clergy who instigated the young and inexperienced king, Nasereddin Shah to execute the Bab. They started a brutal campaign of persecution of Babis and subsequently Bahais that has lasted till this day.
I am not an apologist for Babism. I do not believe in Islam and do not think the Qur'an contains any prophecy. Anyone can interpret the Qur'an in anyway he pleases. I do not believe the Bab was a messenger of God. According to this author, that young man suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy, the evidence of that is in his prolific, verbose, and incoherent writings. He certainly believed in his cause and refused to recant in order to save his life. In all fairness, one can see that Ahsai and Rashti have given a much more logical interpretation to the Quranic verse 32:5 than Dr. Hassab-Elnaby, with his ludicrous claim that the verse reveals the speed of light.
5. Stolen Miracle
The funny thing is that the verse 32:5 is plagiarized from the Bible. Here are the original Biblical verses:
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. [Psalm 90:4]
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.[2 Peter 3:8]
When the Psalmist says a thousand years for God is like a watch in the night, he means God is timeless. In those days people used sundials to measure the time. It only worked in sunshine. This is a beautiful poetic way to say time does not exist for God. This thousand years should be taken allegorically and not literally.
Peter understood that. He said with Lord not only a thousand years is like one day, also one day is like a thousand years. What that humble fisherman was saying is that Time is irrelevant for God. Compare that with the pathetic attempt of Muslim doctors and scholars who take this allegory literally and try to find scientific equations in it. Taken poetically, this example is beautiful; taken literally, it is asinine.
Assuming there is a miracle in this allegory, shouldn't the credit go to the Bible? Isn't it interesting that neither the Jews nor the Christians make the claim that these verses reveal scientific information, but Muslims make that claim even though the verse is stolen from the Bible? What this tells us about the state of the mind of Muslims? Doesn't this show they are insecure and desperate to validate their illogical faith by clinging to any straw?
6. Does the Qur'an distinguish synodic and siderial months?
Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby claims, "Quranic verse (10:5) discriminates between the synodic period for knowing the number of years and the real sidereal period for reckoning in scientific calculations." Here is the verse in question:
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light [wrong. Moon is not a source of light], and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count. 10:5
This verse in no way discriminates between synodic and siderial months. Dr. Hassab-Elnaby is engaging in wishful thinking.
Speed of Light in the Qur'an?
Muslims are hard at work trying to find miracles in the Qur'an and each day they "find" something new. They gloat about it and pump themselves, spread the glad tiding across the Internet, publish it in their newspapers, and challenge others to disprove that miracle, until someone shows their error and deflates them like a punctured balloon. This does not slow them. Since they are eager to find miracles, and since there is no end to human gullibility, especially when one WANTS to believe, they find a new miracle every day.
The Claim
In an article published in Islamicity.com, Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby claims the verse 32.5 reveals that light in one day travels a distance equal to 12,000 lunar orbits, and upon calculating that distance we find the exact speed of light.
Here is verse 32:5 translated by Shakir:
“He regulates the affair from the heaven to the earth; then shall it ascend to Him in a day the measure of which is a thousand years of what you count..â€
According to Dr. Hassab-Elnaby, "affairs" mentioned in this verse is "light." So this verse reveals that light can travel in one day the distance that will take the Moon, 1000 years to span.
It takes a Muslim's imagination to think this verse has anything to do with the speed of light. There is no mention of moon, light or even distance in this verse. However, let us agree with this assumed interpretation for now and see whether Dr. Hassab-Elnaby has his math right.
Rebuttal
The rebuttal is divided into 7 parts.
1. Wrong Calculation
The average center-to-center distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384,403 km.
The orbit of the Moon is nearly circular. (That is why we see the Moon always with the same size)
This means for the Moon to go a full circle around the Earth it must travel a distance of 2,415,273 km (Circumference of the lunar orbit = 2r π = 2 x 384,403 x 3.14159)
To orbit the earth 12,000 times the Moon must travel 28,983,278,898 km (2.415,273 x 12,000). This is how much the moon travels in 1000 lunar years.
Light travels at a constant speed of 299,792.458 km. per second
There are 86,400 seconds in one day (60x60x24)
In 24 hours, light travels a distance of 25,902,068,371 km (299,792.458 x 86,400).
These two numbers are not the same. They are not even close. There is a difference of 3,081,210,527 km (28,983,278,898 - 25,902,068,371) between the distance traveled by the Moon in 1000 lunar years and the distance traveled by light in one day.
This difference is over twenty times the distance between the Earth and the Sun. So clearly Dr. Hassab-Elnaby got it wrong. The two numbers do not match.
That is not all. There is a difference between lunar month (phases) and lunar orbit. The Moon makes a complete orbit around the Earth every 27.3 days, (siderial month) while the periodic variations in the geometry of the Earth–Moon–Sun system are responsible for the lunar phases that repeat every 29.5 days (synodic month). There is a difference of 2.2 days between the lunar month and the lunar orbit. (Wikipedia)
In one lunar year the Moon revolves around the Earth 12.967 times (29.5 x 12 / 27.3) and not 12 times. So the distance that the Moon travels in 1000 lunar years is actually 32, 045,078,461 km (12,967 x 2,4715,273).
The difference between this distance and the distance traveled by light in one day is 6,143,010,090 km (32, 045,078,461 - 25,902,068,371). It would take light, another 5 hours 41 minutes to travel this extra distance.
Alternatively we can say that the Moon revolves around the Earth 10,724 times to cover the distance that the light travels in 24 hours. (Distance traveled by light in one day 25,902,068,371 km / The orbit of the Moon 2,415,273 km).
It takes only 827 lunar years for the Moon to go this distance and not 1000 lunar years. (10,724 revolutions of the Moon around the Earth x 27.3 days that takes for each revolution / 354 days that exist in each lunar year).
No matter how you look at it Dr. Hassab-Elnaby's calculations are wrong. The distance traveled by the Moon in 1000 years and the distance traveled by light in one day are NOT the same.
We are not even considering the orbit of the Earth around the Sun, which inevitably the Moon must also thread. Taking that into account Dr. Hassab-Elnabi's calculations are 36.6 times off.
2. Wrong Translation
Which part of this verse talks about light or its speed? Dr. Hassab-Elnany writes: "Thus we conclude that the cosmic affair, mentioned in the previous Quranic verse, is identical to LIGHT and all similar cosmic affairs travelling in vacuum with this maximum speed such as: all types of electro magnetic waves propagating between the heavens and the earth, the expected Gravitational waves spreading all over the universe, and all particles travelling in this cosmic greatest spead such as neutrinos."
What a load of nonsense! All Muhammad is saying in this verse is that a day of Allah is 1000 years long. This is his way of saying Allah is big, everything about him is big, and even his days are big. Muhammad repeated the same thing in the verse 22.47
“Verily a day in the sight of thy Lord is like a thousand years of your reckoning.â€
There is no mention of affairs going up and down, light, magnetic waves, particles and neutrinos in this verse.
The length of the day is determined by how fast a planet revolves around its axis and it has nothing to do with the size of its inhabitants. All we can understand from this verse is that the creator of the world lives in a very slow revolving planet.
Just to show the absurdity and the confusion in the Qur'an let us see the verse 70:4:
“The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years.â€
This verse has a similar content of the verse 32:5, but here it says that the length of the day of God is 50,000 years. This is a clear contradiction. Is a day of God 1000 years or is it 50,000 years? Does it mean that it takes 50,000 years for angels and spirits to reach God? That is awfully slow. Then how could Angel Gabriel take Muhammad to heaven and back in one night? The Qur'an is replete with contradictions and absurdities. Muhammad had found a gullible audience who gobbled everything he told them uncritically. He never thought one day his words will be scrutinized by people smarter than his benighted followers and his lies will be exposed.
3. Wrong Parameters
I am not done yet! There is still more problem with this claim. The speed of light is constant while the rotation of the Earth, thanks to losing its kinetic energy, is slowing down. Therefore, the days of the Earth are becoming longer. Also the Moon is getting away from the Earth and its orbit is widening. To orbit the Earth, the Moon has to travel a little more each time. This means that the length of the lunar months are increasing. How can one measure something that is constant with things that are variable?
Scientists believe that when the Earth was young, it span ten times faster around its axes than it is spinning today. Since the speed of light has remained the same all along, 4.5 billion years ago, in one day light traveled one tenth of the distance that it travels today.
There are nearly 4.5 million thousand years since the Moon is orbiting the Earth. As the Moon distances from the Earth it is slowing down. Since each millennium the orbit of the Moon and the Length of the day change, in which one of these 4.5 million millennia the Moon traveled the same distance that the light travels in one day? The claim is wrong, but even if true, only one time out of 4.5 million times the two numbers could match. Then again even a broken watch is right twice every day.
The very notion of measuring the speed of light with the orbit of the Moon or the length of the day is a fallacy, that is because the yardstick is constantly changing. Such an error only reveals the lack of understanding of Dr. Hassab-Elnaby of the basic principles of science.
4. Wrong Interpretation
The verse talks about the “affairs of God†being sent to Earth and then ascending to Him in one day, the length of which is 1000 years. How on Earth this educated slave of Allah has determined that "affairs" means light? The word used in Arabic is Amr. It means commandment, order, cause, and affair. This is an allusion to God’s religion and not to light. Amrullah means the Cause of God. A more accurate translation of this verse is, God sends his Cause to Earth, which will return to Him, i.e. it will be revoked in one day, the length of which is equal to 1000 years.
This is how Sheikh Ahmad Ahsai (1753–1826), founder of Shiite Sheikhieh school and his disciple Seyyed Kazim-i-Rashti (1792–1843) interpreted this verse. They claimed Islam does no longer meet the needs of the time and since it does not allow reform, it must be abrogated. However, since no one can abrogate the word of God but God himself, this task rests on the shoulders of the awaited Mahdi, the Promised One of the Shiites. Ahsai and Rashti said the end of Islam and the appearance of Mahdi has already been foretold in the Hadith and the Qur'an, and verse 32:5 gives the exact date.
According to these eminent scholars, Amrullah, the cause of God, was completed when the last intermediary between God and Mankind, Imam Hassan Askari died. Hassan Askari died in the lunar year 260 Hijra. Ahsai believed that since, according to the verse 32:5, one thousand years after the communication between God and mankind is interrupted the cause of God (Islam) would be revoked: يَعْرُجُ إِلَيْهِ ,
Mahdi should manifest himself in the year 1260 Hijra (1844 EC)
Seyyed Kazem Rashti died one year before the expected year. He, was so sure that Mahdi would manifest himself in the coming year that he did not appoint any successor. He dissolved the Sheikhieh school ordering his disciples to scatter around Persia to find him. It was in this heightened atmosphere of expectation that the 26 year old Seyyed Ali Mohammad, native of Shiraz, claimed to be the Bab, the Gate to divine understanding, the Promised One. Thanks to his sincerity and Christ like innocence he attracted most of the students of Seyyed Kazem and in a short time the Babi movement became so popular that it took the country by storm. The amazing success of the Babis in converting the Iranians was seen as a threat by the clergy who instigated the young and inexperienced king, Nasereddin Shah to execute the Bab. They started a brutal campaign of persecution of Babis and subsequently Bahais that has lasted till this day.
I am not an apologist for Babism. I do not believe in Islam and do not think the Qur'an contains any prophecy. Anyone can interpret the Qur'an in anyway he pleases. I do not believe the Bab was a messenger of God. According to this author, that young man suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy, the evidence of that is in his prolific, verbose, and incoherent writings. He certainly believed in his cause and refused to recant in order to save his life. In all fairness, one can see that Ahsai and Rashti have given a much more logical interpretation to the Quranic verse 32:5 than Dr. Hassab-Elnaby, with his ludicrous claim that the verse reveals the speed of light.
5. Stolen Miracle
The funny thing is that the verse 32:5 is plagiarized from the Bible. Here are the original Biblical verses:
For a thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night. [Psalm 90:4]
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.[2 Peter 3:8]
When the Psalmist says a thousand years for God is like a watch in the night, he means God is timeless. In those days people used sundials to measure the time. It only worked in sunshine. This is a beautiful poetic way to say time does not exist for God. This thousand years should be taken allegorically and not literally.
Peter understood that. He said with Lord not only a thousand years is like one day, also one day is like a thousand years. What that humble fisherman was saying is that Time is irrelevant for God. Compare that with the pathetic attempt of Muslim doctors and scholars who take this allegory literally and try to find scientific equations in it. Taken poetically, this example is beautiful; taken literally, it is asinine.
Assuming there is a miracle in this allegory, shouldn't the credit go to the Bible? Isn't it interesting that neither the Jews nor the Christians make the claim that these verses reveal scientific information, but Muslims make that claim even though the verse is stolen from the Bible? What this tells us about the state of the mind of Muslims? Doesn't this show they are insecure and desperate to validate their illogical faith by clinging to any straw?
6. Does the Qur'an distinguish synodic and siderial months?
Dr. Mansour Hassab-Elnaby claims, "Quranic verse (10:5) discriminates between the synodic period for knowing the number of years and the real sidereal period for reckoning in scientific calculations." Here is the verse in question:
It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light [wrong. Moon is not a source of light], and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count. 10:5
This verse in no way discriminates between synodic and siderial months. Dr. Hassab-Elnaby is engaging in wishful thinking.
439
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / 3 Nights before Qiyamah????????
« on: June 10, 2013, 06:20:30 AM »
Is it true that, Night will prevail for three days continuously before the Qiyamah? I heard that it is one of the major signs. But the Question is how it's possible? Because as Earth revolves around the Sun night can't prevail for three days continuously. And even if earth stops rotating for three days, one side of the earth will be dark or night will prevail there for 3 days and on the other hand, day will prevail on the other side of the earth for 3 days. I don't understand it. Brothers please help me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
440
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / ALLAH'S HELP
« on: June 09, 2013, 02:36:50 PM »
SOME people especially the unbelievers ask, if ALLAH is so kind then why isn't He helping the muslims of Palestine,Afghanistan,Iraq from the JEWS? Again they say many people cry seeking help from Allah but still they don't get any help. When I face such questions I become speechless.So how should I answer their claims?Please help me!!!!! Instead of being Muslims some muslims claim Islam is nothing but poilitics.
441
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / BROTHER OSAMA LETS ATTACK WIKI-ISLAM!!!!!!
« on: June 09, 2013, 02:26:45 PM »
Brother Osama, I think you should write an article containing answers to all the alleged contradictions in the Quran, published on Wiki-Islam. We should take serious action against sites like Wiki-Islam, Jihad watch, Islam-watch etc. These sites are too much.
442
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / PRESERVATION OF HADITH
« on: June 09, 2013, 09:31:04 AM »ASSALAMUALYKUM,
We know Allah has taken the responsibility of preserving the Quran. And there are many ancient manuscripts at the museums of many countries. But what about Hadith? Allah didn't take the responsibility to preserve the Hadith. And where are the ancient manuscripts of Sahi Bukhari, Muslim? So anyone can include a new hadith in the present volume of Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. How is hadith preserved? Many might say through memorization. But still it's difficult. For example, A accident took place in Kabul yesterday in which 14 people got killed and 60 injured. After 50 years will I be able to remember the number of dead and injured persons. No, I might say 30 got killed and 80 injured. In same way I think most of the Hadith were written after the demise of MUHAMMAD (S.A.W). Please explain the matter in detain,How is hadith preserved till now?
Modify message
443
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / QURAN ON EBRYOLOGY
« on: June 09, 2013, 08:20:10 AM »
Some people are claiming that Quran's Embryology is incorrect. In favor of their justification they say the following thing,
The Quran in Sura At Tariq ( Chapter 86 verse# 6-7) says
" He is created from a water gushing forth
Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs"
According to science there are two seminal vesicles behind the urinary bladder. The testicles produce only 5% of the sperm. The seminal vesicles produce between 60 to 70% of the semen content per ejaculation. The seminal vesicles are located near the urinary bladder not between the backbone and ribs. So the verse is clearly in error. There was a Greek Physicist called Galen. He lived in 100 A.D he believed in the idea that men is created from ejaculated liquid gushing from backbone and the sperm.
Please brothers and sisters help me to answer these fools.What will I say to them?
The Quran in Sura At Tariq ( Chapter 86 verse# 6-7) says
" He is created from a water gushing forth
Proceeding from between the back-bone and the ribs"
According to science there are two seminal vesicles behind the urinary bladder. The testicles produce only 5% of the sperm. The seminal vesicles produce between 60 to 70% of the semen content per ejaculation. The seminal vesicles are located near the urinary bladder not between the backbone and ribs. So the verse is clearly in error. There was a Greek Physicist called Galen. He lived in 100 A.D he believed in the idea that men is created from ejaculated liquid gushing from backbone and the sperm.
Please brothers and sisters help me to answer these fools.What will I say to them?
444
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / PRESERVATION OF HADITH
« on: June 08, 2013, 02:13:06 PM »
ASSALAMUALYKUM,
We know Allah has taken the responsibility of preserving the Quran. And there are many ancient manuscripts at the museums of many countries. But what about Hadith? Allah didn't take the responsibility to preserve the Hadith. And where are the ancient manuscripts of Sahi Bukhari, Muslim? So anyone can include a new hadith in the present volume of Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. How is hadith preserved? Many might say through memorization. But still it's difficult. For example, A accident took place in Kabul yesterday in which 14 people got killed and 60 injured. After 50 years will I be able to remember the number of dead and injured persons. No, I might say 30 got killed and 80 injured. In same way I think most of the Hadith were written after the demise of MUHAMMAD (S.A.W). Please explain the matter in detain,How is hadith preserved till now?
We know Allah has taken the responsibility of preserving the Quran. And there are many ancient manuscripts at the museums of many countries. But what about Hadith? Allah didn't take the responsibility to preserve the Hadith. And where are the ancient manuscripts of Sahi Bukhari, Muslim? So anyone can include a new hadith in the present volume of Sahih Bukhari and Muslim. How is hadith preserved? Many might say through memorization. But still it's difficult. For example, A accident took place in Kabul yesterday in which 14 people got killed and 60 injured. After 50 years will I be able to remember the number of dead and injured persons. No, I might say 30 got killed and 80 injured. In same way I think most of the Hadith were written after the demise of MUHAMMAD (S.A.W). Please explain the matter in detain,How is hadith preserved till now?
445
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: LOCATION OF STARS
« on: June 08, 2013, 02:03:50 PM »
But brother what's the meaning of setting of the stars?
?
And brother the verse that I have posted is the same only the translation is different.So are "setting of the stars" and "places of the stars" same?? Brother Sama please clarify the matter.
?And brother the verse that I have posted is the same only the translation is different.So are "setting of the stars" and "places of the stars" same?
? Brother Sama please clarify the matter.
446
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / LOCATION OF STARS
« on: June 08, 2013, 01:27:51 PM »
ASSALAMUALYKUM,
What does Quran mean by the places or setting of the stars.Does it mean SUPERNOVA.If so then how?.Please refer to the following verse 75 of Surah Waqiah
Sahih International: Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
Pickthall: Nay, I swear by the places of the stars -
Brothers and Sisters please help me to remove my confusions.
What does Quran mean by the places or setting of the stars.Does it mean SUPERNOVA.If so then how?.Please refer to the following verse 75 of Surah Waqiah
Sahih International: Then I swear by the setting of the stars,
Pickthall: Nay, I swear by the places of the stars -
Brothers and Sisters please help me to remove my confusions.
447
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / UNICELLULAR ANIMALS
« on: June 08, 2013, 09:46:29 AM »
We know Quran says everything is made in pair. But what about unicellular animals? There is no male in them. Only female. Please help me remove my confusion.
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