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Messages - ThatMuslimGuy

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226
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Beat your wife up
« on: October 01, 2013, 06:40:49 PM »
The word Daraba could mean to beat, but it could also mean to leave. The scholars that use this view use Hadiths such as this one in ibn Dawud "Do not beat them", to support there claim. this is one view.
Even the scholars who do say that beat is OK have extreme limitation about it such as it cannot be harmful, the face cannot be hit, you must not leave a mark, do not break the bones or anything else, it cannot be on the face, etc.
Most Scholars have one view or the other. Either that beating is forbidden or that it has extreme limitations about it.
Not taking a side
just stating the facts
peace

The Hadith he is referring to:



Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:

I went to the Messenger of Allah () and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied:
Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

[Sunan Abi Dawud 2144 Grade: Sahih (Al-Albani)]

227
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Beat your wife up
« on: October 01, 2013, 06:24:44 PM »
I take my word back on Quran 13:2
It could be talking about the platonic year.

As for 27:61, that's clearer
"Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground and placed within it rivers and made for it firmly set mountains and placed between the two seas a barrier? Is there a deity with Allah ? [No], but most of them do not know."

Some translations say "fixed abode" meaning it does not move

No offence but what utter Rubbish.

The Ayat you quoted:

Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground [Saheeh International]

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode [Muhsin Khan]

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode [Pickthall]

Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in [Yusuf Ali]

Or, Who made the earth a restingplace [Shakir]

Is not He (Most Charitable) Who made the earth a residence [Dr Ghali]

This verse is merely saying that the earth is stable and safe to live in.

Is the earth generally stable and safe? Yes. Some planets are gaseous so they are not a fixed/stable/safe abode. Whereas the earth is not gaseous meaning that it is solid and firm. Also everytime we walk on the earth, the earth doesnt shake or fall apart. It is a stable ground.

Let us analyse the Pickthall and the Hilali/Khan translation:

Is not He (best) Who made the earth a fixed abode...[Pickthall]

Is not He (better than your gods) Who has made the earth as a fixed abode...[Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan]

Let us define the two key words, fixed and abode:

Acordeing to Colins Gem English Dictionary:

Fix means:

Verb- Make or become firm,stable or secure.

Abode means:

Noun: Home, Dwelling

Therefore the Quran is only stating that the earth is a firm,stable or secure home or dwelling. Which the earth is. This is nothing to do with the earth not moving.

The meaning of this verse becomes clear when you look at multiple translations of the Quran (shown above). The verse isnt refering to the orbit of the earth but to the earth geographically. The misunderstanding is due to how Pickthall has translated the verse. Saheeh International and Yusuf Ali give a more accurate translation of the verse:

Is He [not best] who made the earth a stable ground... [Saheeh International]

Or, who has made the earth firm to live in... [Yusuf Ali]

If we analyse the translations we get the following meanings:

Fixed abode [Pickthall - Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali & Muhammad Muhsin Khan]

Stable ground [Saheeh International]

Firm to live in [Yusuf Ali]

Stable place to live in [Maulana Wahiduddin Khan]

place of resort [Mawdudi]

These are all correct. Thus it shows this verse isnt speaking aboud the rotation of the earth but the earth geographically.

228
Hey Canadian Atheist. I was an Atheist who converted to Islam. Word of Warning you cannot quote the Bible and expect Islam to match it. You cannot quote the Biblical narrative of the story of Adam as the Quranic one is different.

The clich

229
AsalamuAlaikum,

Mash'Allah thankyou for sharing Akhi!

230
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Quran and Prophets
« on: August 19, 2013, 04:38:39 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum

I dont understand what is the criticism made by the Hindu.

It says in the Quran:

And We have already sent messengers before you. Among them are those [whose stories] We have related to you, and among them are those [whose stories] We have not related to you. And it was not for any messenger to bring a sign [or verse] except by permission of Allah . So when the command of Allah comes, it will be concluded in truth, and the falsifiers will thereupon lose [all]. [Quran 40:78]

This simply tells us god has sent many prophets, some stories he tells us and some he doesnt. As we know thousands were sent all over the world.

I dont really understand his criticism?

Oh is the criticism because Allah didn't list them?

Well what would be the benefit of Allah listing thousands of names? It would make the Quran massive having to relate us every single prophets story.

So Allah kept it to storys in which we can derive lessons from. E.g Adam, Musa, Isa, Lut etc

231
There seems to be alot of threads about the Qurans preservation. If any brothers have anytime i recommend watching this video, i found it really beneficial and interesting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2VIboXzlfM

232
Yes, I agree the Quran tells us that Muhammad didn't say anything unless Allah wanted him too. Okay. But how do we know the hadiths are what the prophet said? Muhammad didn't say anything from his own tongue, sure, but the people who wrote the hadiths probably did. We have seen many hadiths that clearly contradict the Quran. That tells us a lot.

Millions of Muslims all over the world have been brought up to believe that the collections of hadith by Bukhari and Moslim provide the authentic words and teachings of the prophet Muhammad. These two collections have been labelled "sahih" (authentic). The majority of these hadith portray a chain of narrators in a chinese whispers fashion attributing sayings to the Prophet (e.g. A said that B said that C said ....... that G said, that the Prophet said). Often the chain extends to seven names or even more, yet for some reason the hadith advocates still deemed these hadith to be the authentic and genuine sayings of the Prophet! With an extremely naive type of logic. It is assumed that every person in the chain, not only was totally honest, but that he had a super human memory to enable him to narrate accurately incidents that took place one hundred or two hundred years earlier.! How did they come to this conclusion?

To know if Hadith are trustworthy or Authentic you need to study the science of Hadith.

Read this book i found it really good. Usool al-Hadeeth: http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Usool%20al-Hadith.pdf

233
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Some Questions
« on: August 14, 2013, 07:45:03 AM »
Assalamualykum.

 Some unbelievers claim that the Muslims at the time of Muhammad (S.A.W) knew about Human Embryology. They claim they used to cut Human bodies and study these things and that's why  when verses related to Human embryology were revealed those verses didn't confuse them.

 My question is, as most of the scientific miracles of the Quran were unknown at that time, so what attracted the people towards Islam at that time? And , what assured them that Islam is the true religion?

 Please Help.

AsalamuAlaikum, All these charges are answered in this paper:
 
http://www.iera.org.uk/downloads/Embryology_in_the_Quran_v2.pdf

Pages 40-63


234
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: hadith on 360 joints
« on: August 14, 2013, 07:31:31 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum,

Have you read the following article? http://www.answering-christianity.com/360_joints.htm

235
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Some Questions
« on: August 13, 2013, 08:40:54 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum,

Yes many verses did confuse them. Some didn't.

For example expanding universe. Many tafsirs explained it meant the expanding of the heavens.

And Embryology many explained it as we do today.

But as for other things like Big Bang theory, they got confused. However they accepted what Allah had said.

My question is, when the verses relating to these subjects were revealed, didn't any Muslim question about them? Didn't they ask Muhammad(S.A.W) to explain them? Didn't these verses confuse them?

Maybe they did, Maybe they didnt. We dont have any sahih hadith with explanations of the verses on Big bang or expanding universe or Pulsars etc.

 It's not possible to understand these verses specially the verses referring to the Big Bang theory and Embryology without technology. So how did the early Muslims understand these verse? Didn't these verses create any confusions among the Muslims? How did they accept these verses?

As said above. Generally they got confused. But they accepted them as they were as they were a revelation from Allah. Some of them they could half explain expanding universe, embryology etc. Others they were clueless.

236
AsalamuAlaikum,

Source: http://www.islamqa.com/en/604

Question:


Why do we have to follow the sunnah of the prophet Muhammad and not just follow the quraan ?
Why do we have to follow a specific Mathab?


Praise be to Allaah.

The first question may appear strange and somewhat surprising to committed, practising Muslims. How can something which is so obviously one of the bases of Islaam become a matter for discussion and debate? But since the question has been asked, we will present, with the help of Allaah, the principles and bases of the importance of the Sunnah, the obligation to follow it and the ruling concerning those who reject it. By so doing, we will also refute the doubters and the misguided group who call themselves “Qur’aaniyyeen” (the Qur’aan has nothing to do with them!) In sha Allaah this discussion will be of benefit to everyone who wants to understand the truth of the matter.

Proof of the importance of the Sunnah

(1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:

(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet  (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet  (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet  (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]

(c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65]

(d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24]

(e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]

(2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example:

(a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).

Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet  (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).

(b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah  (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah).

(3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah.

Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah  (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.

(4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah.

The fact that the Prophet  (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions.

The ruling concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are kaafirs, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion.

As regards your second question, about whether a Muslim is required to follow a particular madhhab, the answer is that he does not have to. For the average “rank and file” Muslim, his madhhab is that of his mufti or the scholar whom he consults for religious verdicts; he must ask those pious scholars whom he trusts for opinions when necessary. If a person has enough knowledge to distinguish which evidence and opinion is stronger, then he must follow the scholarly opinion which has the strongest support from the Qur’an and Sunnah. It is acceptable for a Muslim to follow one of the four well-known madhhabs, on the condition that he understands that the truth in any given issue may lie with another madhhab, in which case he must ignore his own madhhab’s opinion and follow the truth. The Muslim’s aim is to follow the truth that is in accordance with the Qur’an and Sunnah. The madhhabs of fiqh are only a means of reaching ahkaam (rules) based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah, they are not Qur’aan and Sunnah.

We ask Allaah to show us the truth and help us to follow it, and to show us falsehood and help us to avoid it. May Allaah bless our Prophet Muhammad.

Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid

237
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Is Iblis Jinn or Angel?
« on: August 11, 2013, 09:50:57 AM »
AsalamuAlaikum

Iblis is a Jinn.

It has been answered on this website here: http://www.answering-christianity.com/adeel_khan/Rebuttal_to_Sam_Shamoun7.htm

Zakir Naik answers it:

Source: http://www.irf.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=479%3Aiblis-angel-or-jinn&catid=72%3Amcq-who-have-some-knowledge-about-islam&Itemid=199

Question
The Qur'an in several places says that Iblis was an angel, but in Surah Kahf it says that Iblis was a Jinn. Isn't this a contradiction in the Qur'an?

Answer
1.    Incidence of Iblis and Angels mentioned in the Qur'anThe story of Adam and Iblis is mentioned in the Qur'an in various places in which Allah (swt) says, "We said to the angels bow down to Adam: and they bowed down: not so Iblis".

This is mentioned in:

Surah Al Baqarah chapter 2 verse 43
Surah Al Araf chapter 7 verse 17
Surah Al Hijr chapter 15 verses 28-31
Surah Al Isra chapter 17 verse 61
Surah Ta Ha chapter 20 verse 116
Surah Sad chapter 38 verses 71-74

But in Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 the Qur'an says:

"Behold! We said to the angels, "Bow down to Adam." they bowed down except Iblis He was one of the Jinns."
[Al-Qur'an 18:50]

2.    Arabic Rule Of Tagleeb

The English translation of the first part of the verse - We said to the angels bow down to Adam: they bowed down except Iblis, gives us the impression that Iblis was an angel. The Qur'an was revealed in Arabic. In Arabic grammar there is a rule known as Tagleeb, according to which, if the majority is addressed, even the minority is included. If for example, I address a class containing 100 students of whom 99 are boys and one is a girl, and if I say in Arabic that the boys should stand up, it includes the girl as well. I need not mention her seperately.

Similarly in the Qur'an, when Allah addressed the angels, even Iblis was present, but it is not required that he be mentioned separately. Therefore according to that sentence Iblis may be an angel or may not be an angel, but we come to know from Surah Al Kahf chapter 18 verse 50 that Iblis was a Jinn. No where does the Qur'an say Iblis was an angel. Therefore there is no contradiction in the Qur'an.

3.    Jinns have free will and can disobey Allah

Secondly, Jinns have a free will and may or may not obey Allah, but angels have no free will and always obey Allah. Therefore the question of an angel disobeying Allah does not arise. This further supplements that Iblis was a Jinn and not an angel.

Zakir Naiks is the best answer!

It has been answered in many fatwa by the Ulama.

Source: http://www.islamqa.com/en/8976

Question:
I was just wondering if Iblis was actually a jinn or an angel. This particular issue recently sparked my curiosity when it was presented to me by a person I know. If he is an angel, then how is it he disobeyed Allah, when angels have no will of their own and follow only Allah's command? If he is really a jinn, then it would better explain his disobedience as then he actually had the choice to obey or disobey Allah. I would appreciate a response, even if it is a brief one.

Answer:

Praise be to Allah.

Iblis – may Allah curse him – is one of the jinn. He was not an angel for a single day, not even for an instant. The angels were created noble; they never disobey Allah when He commands them to do something and they do what they are commanded. This is clearly stated in the Quranic texts which indicate that Iblis is one of the jinn and not one of the angels. These texts include the following:

 1.                     Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when We said to the angels: “Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.” So they prostrated themselves except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimoon (polytheists, and wrongdoers, etc).” [18:50]

 2.                     Allah stated that He created the jinn from fire, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire” [15:27]

“And the jinn He created from a smokeless flame of fire” [55:15]

And it was narrated in a saheeh hadeeth (authentic report) that ‘Aishah (may Allah be pleased with her) said: the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “The angels were created from light, the jinn were created from smokeless fire and Adam was created from that which has been described to you.” [Muslim, Ahmad, al-Bayhaqi and Ibn Hibban].

One of the attributes of the angels is that they were created from light, and the jinn were created from fire. It was mentioned in the Quran that Iblis – may Allah curse him – was created from fire. This is what Iblis himself said when Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, asked him the reason for his refusal to prostrate to Adam when Allah commanded him to do so. He – may Allah curse him – said:

“ ‘I am better than him (Adam), You created me from fire, and him You created from clay.’” [7:12, 38:76 – interpretation of the meaning]. This indicates that he was one of the jinn.

 3.            Allah has described the angels in His Book, where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the commands they receive from Allah, but do that which they are commanded.” [66:6]

“And they say: ‘The Most Gracious (Allah) has begotten a son (or children).’ Glory to Him! They [whom they call children of Allah i.e. the angels, ‘Isa (Jesus) son of Maryam, ‘Uzair (Ezra)], are but honoured slaves. They speak not until He has spoken, and they act on His command.” [21:26-27]

“And to Allah prostrate all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, of the moving (living) creatures and the angels, and they are not proud [i.e. they worship their Lord (Allah) with humility]. They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded.” [16:49-50]

So it is not possible for the angels to disobey their Lord, because they are protected from sin and they are naturally inclined to obey Allah.

4.                     The fact that Iblis is not one of the angels means that he is not compelled to obey Allah. He has freedom of will just as we humans do. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Verily, We showed him the way, whether he be grateful or ungrateful.” [76:3]

There are also Muslims and kafirs (non-Muslims) among the jinn. It says in Soorat al-Jinn (interpretation of the meaning):

“Say (O Muhammad): ‘It has been revealed to me that a group (from three to ten in number) of jinn listened (to this Quran). They said: ‘Verily, we have heard a wonderful Recitation (this Quran)! It guides to the right path, and we have believed therein, and we shall never join (in worship) anything with our Lord (Allah).’” [72:1-2]

In the same soorah (chapter), it states that the jinn said:

“‘And indeed when we heard the Guidance (this Quran), we believed therein (Islamic Monotheism), and whosoever believes in his Lord shall have no fear, either of a decrease in the reward of his good deeds or an increase in the punishment for his sins.  And of us some are Muslims (who have submitted to Allah, after listening to this Quran), and of us some are Al‑Qasitoon (disbelievers those who have deviated from the right path)…” [72:13-14]

Ibn Kathir (may Allah have mercy on him) said in his exegesis:

Al-Hasan al-Basri said: Iblis was not one of the angels, not even for a single moment. He is the father of the jinn, just as Adam (peace be upon him) is the father of mankind. This was narrated by al-Tabari with a saheeh isnad (authentic chain).

Some of the scholars said that Iblis was one of the angels, that he was the peacock of the angels, that he was the one among the angels who strove the hardest in worship … and other reports, most of which come from the Israiliyyat (stories and reports from Jewish sources), and some of which contradict the clear texts of the Quran.

Ibn Kathir said, explaining this:

A lot of these reports were transmitted from the salaf (pious predecessors), and most of them come from the Israiliyyat, which may have been transmitted in order to be examined [i.e., as opposed to being accepted as is]. Allah knows best about the veracity or otherwise of many of them. Some of them are definitely to be rejected, because they go against the truth which we hold in our hands. In the Quran we have what is sufficient so that we have no need for previous reports, because hardly any of them are free of distortions, with things added or taken away. Many things have been fabricated in them, for they did not have people who had memorized things precisely by heart (huffaz) who could eliminate the distortions created by extremists and fabricators, unlike this ummah (nation) which has its imams (religious leaders), scholars, masters, pious and righteous people, brilliant critics and men of excellent memory who recorded the hadeeths (reports) and classified them, stating whether they were saheeh (sound), hasan (good), da’eef (weak), mawdoo’ (fabricated) or matrook (to be ignored). They identified the fabricators and liars, and those about whom nothing was known, and other kinds of men (i.e., narrators). All of this afforded protection to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him), the seal of the Messengers and the leader of Mankind, so that nothing would be attributed to him falsely and nothing would be transmitted from him that he did not say or do. May Allah be pleased with them and make them pleased [by rewarding them], and make the Paradise of al-Firdaws their eternal abode. (Tafseer al-Quran il-‘Azeem).

And Allah knows best.
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid




Source: http://www.islamqa.com/en/22232

Question:

Was Iblis one of the angels or one of the jinn? And are the jinn from among the angels?

Answer:

Praise be to Allah.

Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen al-Shanqeeti (may Allah be pleased with him) said:

Allah says in the following ayah/verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“He [Iblis] was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord.” [18:50]

The apparent meaning is that the reason for his disobedience of his Lord was the fact that he was one of the jinn. The conjunction fa in the Arabic text [kana min al-jinn fa-fasaqa ‘an amri Rabbihi] is indicative of the reason, as in the Arabic phrase saraqa fa quti’at yaduhu which means, “he stole, so his hand was cut off”, i.e., that was because he stole; or the phrase saha fa sajada which means, “he forgot so he prostrated”, i.e., that was because he forgot. The same pattern is seen in the ayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (as for) the male thief and the female thief, cut off [fa-qta’u] (from the wrist joint) their (right) hands.” [5:38]

i.e., because of their stealing.

Similarly, the phrase kana min al-jinn fa-fasaqa (he was one of the jinn [so] he disobeyed …) means that this was because he was in essence one of the jinn, because this feature is what made him different from the angels, for they obeyed the command but he disobeyed. Because of the apparent meaning of this ayah, a number of scholars were of the opinion that Iblis was not originally one of the angels, rather he was one of the jinn, but he used to worship Allah with them, so he was called by their name because he followed them, just as an ally of a tribe may be given their name. The dispute as to whether Iblis was originally an angel whom Allah changed into a devil, or whether he was not originally an angel but was included in the word malaikah (angels) because he had joined them and worshipped Allah with them, is a well known dispute among the scholars. The evidence of those who say that he was not originally one of the angels is based on two things:

1 – The fact that angels are protected against committing kufr (disbelief) as was committed by Iblis, as Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Who disobey not, (from executing) the commands they receive from Allah, but do that which they are commanded.” [66:6]

“They speak not until He has spoken, and they act on His Command.” [21:27]

2 – Allah clearly states in 18:50 that he was one of the jinn, and the jinn are not angels. They said: this is a Quranic text concerning which there is some dispute.

Among those who stated that he was not originally one of the angels based on the apparent meaning of this ayah was-Hasan al-Basri, who was supported by al-Zamakhshari in his tafsir (exegesis).

Al-Qurtubi said in his tafsir of Surat al-Baqarah: “The idea that he was one of the angels is the view of the majority, Ibn ‘Abbas, Ibn Mas’ud, Ibn Jurayj, Ibn al-Musayyib, Qutadah and others. It is the view chosen by al-Shaykh Abu’l-Hasan and regarded as more correct by al-Tabari, and it is the apparent meaning of the phrase “except Iblis.” [18:50]

What the mufassirin (Quranic exegetists) have quoted from a group of the salaf (righteous predecessors), such as Ibn ‘Abbas and others, that he was one of the noblest of the angels, one of the keepers of Paradise, and that he controlled the affairs of the first heaven, and that his name was ‘Azazil is all taken from the Israliyyat (reports narrated from Jewish sources) and is not reliable.

The clearest evidence concerning this matter, the evidence cited by those who said that he was not an angel because of the ayah (interpretation of the meaning):

“He [Ibls] was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord,” [18:50] is the clearest text from the revelation that proves this point.

And Allah knows best.
Adwaa’ al-Bayaan, 4/130-132.


Hope this helps.

238
Sorry brother just checked the forum. I will reply when im on p.c.

239
AsalamuAlaikum,

The Claim

Another  contention from commentators is that at this stage there are no real bones. It is argued that the apparent bones are mere cartilage as ossification is incomplete and, therefore, the Qur’an is inaccurate. They further assert that the Arabic term for cartilage, ghurdoofshould have been used instead of  ᶜidhaam.

Although a valid contention is it misplaced for the following reasons:

1. The Arabic word for cartilage refers to a type of cartilage that is not a precursor to bones, but rather remains as flexible connective tissue. The skeptic replied by saying Hamza provides no evidence for this claim. But he does. He quotes Lanes Arabic lexicon which defined it as any soft bone like the bone in the Nose. The Nose only ever remains a flexible connective tissue. So Hamza's statement is correct.

2.  The  word  ᶜidhaam encompasses the cartilaginous form of the bones as the skeletal framework is put in place. For me this is the biggest point is that Idhaam encompasses the cartilaginous bone.

3. The use of the word  ᶜidhaam is more accurate because it also carries the meaning of  “bone, but properly applied to the bones of the hands and feet, or of the arms and legs, of an animal, upon which is the flesh.” Since flesh - in other words muscles and tendons - is subsequently formed around the limb bones of the developing human, the use of the word  ᶜidhaam is more apt as it encompasses the description of limb bones that have flesh upon them.

4. The process of ossification begins by the 8th week,and continues on after birth. The ossification process completes around puberty. As Barry Mitchell and Ram Sharma explain. From this perspective, it would be a medical absurdity to assume newborns or young teenagers do not have bones simply because they require ossification, especially  since ossification completes at the end of the growth-spurt of puberty.

5. The biggest point is for me is the connotations of the word ᶜidhaam allow for an all-encompassing interpretation because the “cartilaginous models of the various bones”are included in its meaning.

6. The Quran is not a science book.

7. Ghurdoof, as was defined by lanes Arabic Lexicon, specifically refers to the cartilage of the Nose or Ears so it would be innacurate to use it when describing the Embryo. Also if Allah did use this it would be confusing for the Companions and later generations as they understood this word to refer to only the bones in the Nose and Ear.

So in my eyes Ghurdoof would be erroneous if it was used. Due to it refering to the bone in the Nose and Ear which is nothing like the Cartilage in the Embryo and would be confusing to Arabic speakers. So Allah used the word Idhaam which encompasses this type of soft Bone. Also Idhaam is better as it refers to the bones of the Limbs, which begin to develop at this stage, unlike Ghurdoof which refers to soft bone in the Nose and Ear. Alhamdulillah that Allah picked this word. Anyways hope this helps in sha Allah brother Osama can write something.

240
AsalamuAlaikum.

Im away from the pc at the moment. I will respond when im not on my phone.

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