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Topics - mclinkin94

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If you think there is a contradiction in the Quran, then ask the following:

Have I made any unverified assumptions?
Have I considered all possible definitions of the words?
Have I considered all possible translations of the words?
Have I considered all grammatical syntactic definitions/renderings?

If the answer is no to the first one and yes to the last 3 and there still is a contradiction--you have found a contradiction.

If you wonder why verses in the Quran are vague and don't 100% show God, consider these logical premises

Premise 1: God created humans to test if we worship him without proof of his existence
Premise 2: If God created humans to worship him without proof of his existence, then he has to give us sufficient evidence.
Premise 3: If God has to give us sufficient evidence, it cannot be a strong enough evidence that automatically 'proves' God. The evidence has to be  there, but it cannot be too strong.
Premise 4: Therefore, God gave sufficient evidence for those whose hearts are open, unbiased to show his existence, but that evidence is sufficiently vague so it doesn't compel those whose hearts are closed.

Imagine the Quran was a strong miracle that was 100% compelling and there was no vaguness in it and it was direct. Imagine the Quran listed scientific phenomena so clearly that in the future everyone knows its divine. Does that make sense for God to do that given the fact that our purpose in life is to worship him without 100% proof? If he gave us really strong proof of his existence, then our purpose in life is violated. We all believe in God and life is no longer a test--because everyone saw the undeniable proof.

Life is a multiple choice test with many choices. If you pick the wrong choices throughout the test, you will be punished; if you pick the right choices throughout the test, you will be rewarded. The test is going to have many tricks in it to see your answer. This is life. Make the right choices. If the Quran was presented with unvague, clear 100% proof of God, then everyone passes the test. Its like the professor decides to give everyone the answers to the exam--Whats the point of the exam?

If you think that the Quran sounds like it was written by a 7th century Nomad consider the following premises:

1.) If God were to give a revelation to 7th century nomads it has to compel them and has to give them things to reflect upon so they believe in the scripture
2.) If that revelation is the final revelation and is supposed to compel people of the future, then that revelation cannot contradict reality that future humans will discover
3.) Therefore, the Quran MUST affirm 7th century belief without contradicting science.

And it must be sufficiently vague (read my past logic)

So yes, you find that in the Quran many words are purposely avoided or the Quran used alternate words so it could affirm 7th century beleif without contradicting (but supporting) science. So the Quranic scientific miracles have to be vague enough so they don't compel those whose hearts are closed and has to NOT contradict 7th century belief.

Imagine Muhammad directly told everyone at the time that the Earth is round and that you are standing off of the middle so you won't fall off. People at that time would have considered him "idiotic" and "unscientific" and would have never considered Islam. So what did God do? In the Quran, there isn't a single verse that says the Earth is flat and there are many verses that hint at the Earth being round. Those have to be sufficient enough to compel those whose hearts are closed AND not contradict 7th century belief AND support modern science.

So why does the Quran sound so basic and why didn't the Quran cover extensively the complex scientific topics?

God kinda patronizes us in the Quran. He knows we are only limited to understanding certain things, and that is what he utilizes. So of course the Quran has to give 7th century people something to reflect upon. Its like me trying to explain the theory of relativity to a 2 year old. I am going to sound like I am 2 year old. Right?

I just wanted to let everyone know that through this logic, I have converted to Islam and seen the rationality behind my decision. I hope it helps others inshallah.

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I was arguing with an Atheist (who left Christianity very recently) about how Muhammad was not wrong to marry a 9 year old woman because it was accepted in his society at the time--so he cannot be held accountable for doing an immoral deed. This atheist did not want to even look at Islam because Muhammad was a pedophile.

This was my logic: (you don't have to read)

Premise one: People married young because of the way society was based
Premise two: When the way society is based changes, people considered marrying young immoral
Premise three: Therefore, age in marriage is based on the way society is set up at a certain time
Premise four: Therefore, It is morally acceptable to marry young based on the way ancient society was based and it is NOT morally acceptable to marry young based on the way modern society is based.


So this is good an all and the Atheist accepted this but then he said and I quote "Fine, thank you for showing that the profit was just a child of his time and environment, and NOT a role model for ALL ages to follow
So now we know that 7th century ideas/ideologies were ok for the 7th century and we've moved along
We're in the 21st century can we plz live accordingly?
Can we relegate Islam now to its rightful place? To the history pages?"



I responded to that by saying that: "Where does the Quran say he should be a complete role model? The Quran said to listen to him. The Quran is your role model--that's the book you follow and you should accept it and can accept it for ALL ages to follow.

Muhammad was a mere human being, we should follow how he followed the Quran and how he worshiped God, NOT his personal life. The Quran commands that. I don't have to eat date stalks and grow a beard like Muhammad and completely live as if I was in his personal life"


Now excuse me for saying this, but this is what I really believe, my question is am I wrong? Can you give me Quranic or authentic hadith verses that say we are commanded to do exactly as Muhammad does? Was I missing something.

I know a sunnah is just something we do to respect Muhammad (pbuh) , but is it really required? I don't eat dates, nor have a beard nor marry young...

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The article says that the idea of Humans were created from Clay were found in many ancient pagan writings, for example:

For example: Greeks:

Ancient Greeks
Prometheus shaped man out of mud, and Athena breathed life into his clay figure.[7]


Ancient Egyptian
Khnum, the ram-headed god of Elephantine, the potter, fashioned men on his wheel, making use of the clay in his locality as his basic material.[3]


Europe
The Cheremiss of Russia, a Finnish people, tell a story of the creation of man which recalls episodes in the Toradjan and Indian legends of the same event. They say that God moulded man's body of clay and then went up to heaven to fetch the soul, with which to animate it.[9]



http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Creation_of_Humans_from_Clay

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=M4T4uD7sjBk

^Please watch critically. I am sure that verses 41:9-12 are talking about Earth's atmosphere. Here is my little explanation (watch the video please  :)

Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface, and He blessed it and determined therein its [creatures'] sustenance in four days without distinction - for [the information] of those who ask.

^After the Earth was created he put mountains/volcanoes over its surface and through those activities in the mountains, the creatures on the Earth could have sustenance!!!!

Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

^After it talks about mountains, it mentions SMOKE!!--Volcanoes! That is how the Earth's atmosphere was created, through volcanic emissions. Through those emission the atmospheres could develop!

And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing.


^It doesn't say the nearest haven has 'lamps', it says it was adorned or decorated with lamps. So the lower heaven is adorned with the beauty of the stars and not the stars themselves!


Think about it: The Quran is discussing the creation of the Earth in the first verse. It does not say the Earth was created and then the universe (heavens), it says the earth was created and then the atmosphere (heavens can also mean sky)--Which is scientifically accurate. MOREOVER, the QUran says that through mountains--smoke developed and made the atmosphere which was competed therefore creatures could have sustenance. Without the atmosphere, the first life forms could have not evolved.

^I love this video! Alhamdulliah I have found it--It cleared up so much!

I hope it does for you,
Salam


Now my question is: When the Quran said that God created the heavens and the Earth in 6 days, is it referring to the universe or the atmosphere?

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The Quran did that in many places. Why doesn't it reference the Earth in it as well? Non-muslims keep telling me the Quran references the geocentric model of the earth many times. How are they supposed to accept islam if they see what they call a scientific absurdity>

Can anyone provide evidences and hints as to how the Quran does NOT support the geocentric model even though it constantly references the Sun/Moon having an orbit and doesn't mention the Earth.

Now some people say that in one verse it says "all [celestial bodies] are travelling in an orbit", but why does it not just explicitly state that? Why does it have to be a vague reference? Others will be extremely skeptic of this interpretation because when you weight the number of times the Quran hints at the geocentric model against that one time--it will not show the Quran supports the geocentric model.

Help please.

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The Quran says the Universe and the Earth was created in 6 days (Quran: 10:3) and that the Earth was created in 2 days (Quran 41:9).That tell us that according to the Quran the earth should be 1/3 (2/6) the age of the universe.

And now what does science tell us?
-The Earth is 4.54 billion years old
-The Universe is 13.7 billion years old

4.54/13.7 is 1/3. So according to our best estimations the earth is 1/3rd the age of the universe!

67
There was a yahoo answers question I couldn't answer and it goes like this:

Example 74:12

Allah uses "I" instead of "we". Is this an insertion from a human?

Allah uses "we" through out the Quran to refer to himself, but he never Used "I" until he used it here in 74:12 and so on...Why?

Couldn't this be an insertion in the Quran? Please refute this

Another user said:

Surah 74:17 says, " I will cover him with arduous torment". Allah is the "I", not an intermediary or angel or demon or you or me or anyone else in Heaven or on Earth. Allah has let slip that he will be in Hell to directly administer ALONE all torments! Your Allah has inadvertently revealed that he is a Hell-resident Demon if not the very Devil himself.

Refute please!

Also quran 74:15

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / My first Ramadan!
« on: July 06, 2013, 04:45:51 PM »
Hey everyone, this is my first Ramadan ever: I have been looking online and at my mosque for information about the duties and I feel like I can do it. Do you have any advice for me?

I sincerely thank Allah for guiding me to Islam through Answering-Christianity, and I will always be grateful to Osama for his work. May Allah reward him grant him peace and blessings.

It started out with me looking for excuses to deny Islam and Answering-Islam was the site I would always visit to keep me from Islam: everytime I felt my faith in Christianity was weak, I look at anti-Islamic sites to make my faith in Christianity stronger-and it worked for a while. Suddenly I found myself at the rebuttals in this website and I got myself a Quran and within a year, I converted to Islam officially. Its kinda Ironic I converted to Islam from anti-Islamic websites. And I sincerely thank Allah for taking me on this journey.

I will be observing my first Ramadan, hope everyone has a great month!

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Since this website was created for rebuttals and defending Islam, I thought it would be best to tell you about this youtuber who primarily focuses on debunking scientific miracles in the Quran and he has been getting a lot of support lately.

If your faith in Islam is not as strong as it could/should be, I would suggest not watching for now. We need people who really understand the Quran and Arabic to make a rebuttal to this guy!


This guy seems to be a bigger threat than Answeringislam..

EDIT:

Also, "theislammiracle" is another youtube channel that 'debunks' scientific miracles!

It even uses the tactic of numbering the miracles. For example one of the videos are called, "Quran miracles debunked 22 of 50". Very deceptive. ACTION NEEDED!

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And how can we know for sure, can you post some verses and analyze them?


Because some of the scientific miracles are derived from this, and if it is not talking about the whole universe, the scientific miracles with regards to this are invalid.

Like, the heavens and the Earth were once connected and then God stitched it etc.

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GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Youtube debate..still crazy!
« on: June 20, 2013, 12:27:53 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Yx7YMH8Gs&lc=y26xwVgjd_m_oJXnhfxfO3TdCozi25XP7KYC9VItaZo

I'm currently debating with a user called 'Jesus or Muhammad' (its most likely from the answeringislam team or sam shamoun) in the youtube video. He has been here for weeks and he is debating everyone. It is entertaining to read and perhaps you could pitch in there.


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Quran 4:136 says: O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah , His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray.

Christians like to say:

"Why would God force you to believe in a corrupted/altered/false book, especially when the Quran says people have corrupted the bible/torah"

Explanation anyone?

73
Okay so there are some Atheists and Christians that try to refute the idea that humans have failed to write the Quran and that the language of the Quran is miraculous.

Here are their arguments (please help me out):

1.) If people make a computer program and put in the numerical requirements for a verse to be written and make it fit within the numerical 'miracles' of 7 and 19, then the computer program could most definitely give out a list of words that could fit into the verse and those words can be combined together to make a verse in the Quran that has a meaning and moral values. How do we respond to this, perhaps a computer program could do it? Computer programs have been used to do more complex tasks. So Humans could write a verse in the Quran and would prove the Quran wrong?

2.) Just because Muhammad (pbuh) wrote the Quran using a different style of Arabic than the Arabs have shown, how does that make the Quran divine? Shakespeare used a different format of English to make his sonnets, that doesn't mean Romeo and Juliet are divine. In other words, just because the Quran is different, doesn't mean it is divine.

3.) Some Muslims like to make the allegation that Muhammad (pbuh) wrote the Qur'an perfectly with the divine miracles of 7 and 19. How do you know that? What if the prophet didn't do that. What if people later in time arranged the Qur'an in a way that the 'miracles' of 7 and 19  are made. Anyway, there are words in the Quran that are spelled differently from original Arabic. Muhammad (pbuh) didn't know how to spell, how could he have told people to spell a word differently? So clearly those spellings were insertions.

^The person who said the last one was referencing a book that talked about the miracles of 7 and 19 in http://kaheel7.com/Book/Marvels_BookSeven.pdf   The Quran is filled with many things that are divisible by 7 and 19, and this is because some words in the Quran are spelled differently. So the skeptic was wondering how could the prophet know to spell the word differently if he was illiterate. So the skeptic thinks that the Quran spelling has been inserted.

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Hello everyone and brother Osama. Firstly, thank you very much for your amazing website. I have a proposal; please read this with an open heart and mind.  I'm not saying that the theory of evolution is 100% infallible and is 100% fact (there are missing evidences, but that doesn't mean evolution doesn't exist--the evidence for it is overwhelming) I am proposing that the Quran  supports evolution. As a microbiologist, I have seen natural selection with my own eyes. I have seen how antibiotic resistance work.

Refer to the current article on evolution: http://www.answering-christianity.com/evolution.htm,

This article asserts that Evolution has no place in Islam and the Quran. It points out many verses about it.

It also says that Animals were sent from outer space; this can be true for bacteria and single-celled organisms, but an animal like cattle will not be sent from outer space. Firstly, they need to be able to breathe in outer space, secondly earth's atmosphere burns off the meteorites that hit earth. Animals like cattle cannot survive in those conditions.

I will now talk about the verses the article mentions:

"Behold, thy Lord said to the Angels: 'I will create a vicegerent on earth.'...(The Noble Quran, 2:34)" --> Verse 2:34 talks about prostration of the angels to adam, in no way does it disprove Islams support of evolution. A vicegerent is a person that is delegated power. Adam was delegated praise from Allah. Why? Perhaps because Adam (the first person to carry the human mutation) was the best of God's creation so far. He has free will so he is already better than the angels. He is also better than all of the other hominids in earth do not compare to the final result of God's amazing creation!

"From the (earth) did We Create you, and into it Shall We return you, And from it shall We Bring you out once again.--> This does not disprove Islam's evolution stand either. Instead it says that we are made of dust, all animals including Adam.


"Behold! thy Lord said To the angels: 'I am about To create man, from sounding clay From mud moulded into shape; 'When I have fashioned him (In due proportion) and breathed Into him of My spirit, Fall ye down in obeisance Unto him.'   (The Noble Quran, 15:28-29)"----> This verse obviously has symbolic characteristics. We are created from clay (a mixture of earth and water and we were shaped). Interestingly enough this verse says we have been fashioned, maybe it means we have been evolved to make us who we are. He could fashion us through evolution.

So this article doesn't entirely disprove Islams stance on evolution.

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Support for evolution:


Quran 29:20 Say: "Travel through the Earth and see how He BEGAN the Creation. THEN, Allah makes the latter Creation. Allah is capable of (doing) everything".

24.45 . Allah has created every animal out of water . Of them (is a category which) walks upon its belly, (another which) walks upon two legs, and ( a third which) walks upon four . Allah creates what He wills. Allah is Able to do everything (He wants).

21: 30 Have not those who disbelieve seen (known) that the heavens and the Earth were of one connected entity, then We separated them (from each other), and We made every living thing out of water? Will they not then believe?

71.17. And Allah has caused you to grow out of the earth like plants.

32.7. (Allah is He) who has made everything He created BETTER, and He began the creation of the human (being) out of clay.--> He made everything he created better. Evolution could have been a mechanism.

Please read the article linked at the end  for more Quranic verses.


I'm a Muslim who strongly believes in evolution by design NOT in blind evolution and chance, natural selection and chance alone CANNOT make such a wonderful tree of life.

-Eve from Adam's rib:  Most of the ideas that contradict evolution among Muslims are from the myths of other religions which were imported to Islam and attributed falsely to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Our father Adam (peace be upon him) was preferred or chosen over other people of his time as Allah stated clearly in Quran 3:33-34, just like Allah chose any prophet after him also Quran stated in these verses that all were "offspring", Adam was included and Allah is never short of words.

-Creation of Adam in Heaven: There is no such thing in the Quran, Adam was reworded to stay in Heaven with his wife AFTER he won the contest against the angels (the naming of creatures) as Quran stated clearly in 2:35 and 7:19. When Adam disobeyed Allah and ate from the tree him and his wife were sent back to Earth.

-Why Adam disobeyed Allah? Because Allah didn't promise Adam to be immortal in Heaven, Adam was growing older and Satan promised him that if he ate from the immortality tree then he will not grow older. Quran: 20:120 and 7:20

-Creation of Adam from dust: We are all created from dust, just like our father Adam. Quran 18:37, Quran 30:20, Quran 35:11, Quran 40:67.

-Adam was created suddenly: Just This verse is enough to refute such claim and there are many others Quran 7:11: And We created you (humans, in plural form), THEN fashioned you (made you in the image you are, also addressing humans in plural form), then said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam!

-How can Adam be our father if there were many humans?: The children of the smart man that Allah chose were the most fit to survive to our days (survival of the fittest), there are many other human species which we found their fossils only and they didn't make it to our time. Allah chose Adam and gave him a challenge of naming creatures and Adam was able to do that, the other hominids at the time did not have the intellectual capacity to do so! So Allah told the angels to prostrate to Adam, God's perfected creation (through evolution). Adam is our father because he is the hominid creature that survived (the most fit).

Similarity of Adam And Jesus (Peace and blessings be upon them): Quran 3:59 talks about the similitude between Adam and Jesus. Anti-evolution muslims assert that this means that they were both created miraculously and instantly. Well, Jesus was not. Jesus developed as an Embryo, so Adam would have too. Jesus was born without a father but he had a mother--> Adam may have too, perhaps the mother bearing Adam was non-human like and God caused a mutation to make Adam. That is of course how mutations occur, they occur before the fetus is formed.  Further into verse 3:59, when Allah said 'be' and it is, is most likely referring to genetic processes like a mutation. How could have Jesus been created without a father scientifically? Perhaps Allah has added genetic processes to the egg before it became a fetus to make Jesus, the same occurred to Adam.  Also take note that: The biggest similarity between Jesus and Adam (pbut) though is that they were both prophets when they were born, So compared to the other prophets, like Muhammad (pbuh) who was told he was a prophet later in life, Jesus and Adam have the most similarity.

If you guys are interested in giving birth without sperm (father) take a look at this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1431489.stm there are many other articles about this online and it is a work in progress. Allah is most definitely able to make Jesus and Adam without a father

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Allah is NOT a wizard, He does NOT pull new stars and new galaxies from a magic hat and certainly He doesn't do that for new species. Allah created and planned this universe on scientific laws; evolution is just one of them. Evolution means way more ingenious creator than a wizard who had to come to Earth and pull species one after another because he couldn't plan that from the beginning and you know very well that Allah is the best planner, evolution was part of the plan from the beginning of creation of this universe.

Please read the article linked here, don't be brainwashed by the myths of other religions. Just because Christianity is against it, doesn't mean Islam is. Thank you.

Click on the link below for more information about evolution in the Qur'an:

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Islamic%20Editorials/2007/October/Creation%20and%20Evolution%20in%20the%20Holy%20Qur%27an%20By%20Hassan%20El-Najjar.htm


May Allah guide us into the right path. Thank you Brother Osama for an amazing website! May Allah reward you.


I would like to conclude this with a verse from the Quran, chapter 59:24

He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner The Evolver (al bari); to Him belong the best names. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

^Not only does Allah create, he FASIONS creation, he EVOLVES creation.

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I always hear Atheists say:

1. If God is so merciful, why does he allow people to burn in hell forever? If God created humans this way and he created us without proof of his existence, why would he punish people who rejected him? How is this merciful? If God is all knowing/omnipotent, wouldn't he know that most of these disbelievers are in fact innocent and they disbelieve because of their experiences in life and the way their brains have been developed? Why would an all knowing being punish people?

2. If God is real, how could he get angry? Anger is an emotion that arises from displeasure when certain expectations are not met. If God is all knowing and has those expectations, why would he get angry? He already knows what is going to happen?

3. How do you know that God is one? You use the cosmological argument that the universe needed a creator that exists outside of space and time and that that creator is personal and intelligent. How do you know there aren't other personal/intelligent creators outside of space and time? How do you know that God is one?  (It would be beneficial if you do not use scripture to describe this part)


How do we respond?

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