Answering Christianity Research Center

there is nothng special if there is miracles or scientific claims in quran
its not a big deal at all.. bcoz if its from the one who created this universe.. so it will have..

but it would be a big deal if people feels illogical regarding a verse if it never fits the data from our observable universe.

brother just for conclusion based on the points i got so far.

do you wish to conclude that [Surah 67-5]
"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made them thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."

which one will u chose

1.we still dont have much knowledge to interprete the verse

                            or

2. verse speaks about radiations emitted from stars are made to strike at jinns.

if u chose first one,
can u plz explain, do the arabic word مَصَابِيحَ (lamp)refers to stars or can they refer to any other heavenly bodies.

if u chose the second one,
can u plz explain how you could interprete lamps as radiations when there is no special mention of something from lamps is made to strike the jinns.

lamps = stars(Suns)

Missiles = Solar Eruptions(Solar Bursts)

quoting like this feels good to understand. but if we were to compare it with the verse 67:5

i feel there is something wrong in your explanation.

see for yourself.
"...and We have made them missiles for the Shaitans,.."[Surah 67-5]

if we where to just to interprete as u said
it will be like
...and We have made them(stars) missiles(solar bursts) for the Shaitans,...


i dint know much about this. but what i think this will only be clear if there is a preposition 'from'

and We have made from them(stars) missiles(solar bursts) for the Shaitans.

without this preposition 'from'. i feel there is wrong in our explanation that solar bursts or radiations is made as missiles.

if i am wrong. plz rectify me.

Brother, from where did you get STONNING THE DEVILS?  The Holy Quran says that the Jinns are created from SMOKELESS FIRE.  And no stone is mentioned.  You are now adding stuff on the Holy Quran, akhi.

sorry brother.that was my mistake. i found that the meaning for the word  رُجُومًا are missiles,throwing.

link: http://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%B1%D9%8F%D8%AC%D9%8F%D9%88%D9%85%D9%8B%D8%A7/
since u quoted like this
"RUJOOMA does not mean missiles.  SAWAREEKH means missiles.  And missiles did not exist back then anyway"

so the meaning has to be throwing. it may be an earthy term(as u mentioned earlier).
but instead of using the word throwing. i mistakenly used the word stoning.

i will soon post my above comment after correcting this mistake.

i have some doubts regarding ur post on numerical miracles. Inshallah. i will post it later



even though this verse says something about unseen world. there are many interpretations regarding this verse.

some people and scholars says that it says about shooting stars
some says its just a metaphor
some claim they are not yet understandable
and you claimed they refer to radiations from pulsars and may be others.

thats the reason i am wishing to know the exact explanation and answer to this verse.

Brother, Allah Almighty is using an earthly term to describe something that happens in the unseen world.  It's like when Allah Almighty talks about His Hands.  They're not like ours.  But this is a term Allah Almighty used to speak to us.
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

i agree with ur point. its normal to use an earthy term like
leech like substance  for     embryo and
planets swimming     for     orbiting and revolving.

even if stonning or other earthly term is used for tha ayah. still i feel it contradicting because quran says stars(lamps) are stoned at devils while ur article says radiation from pulsars(a type of star) is made to radiated(stoned) at devils

i feel both points contradicting.



i just compared some of the verses and came to know that the word مَصَابِيحَ in verse 67:5 refers to some type or stage of a star


i just compared like this

"15.Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers
16.And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?"[Surah 71:15-16]

"And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."[Surah 41:12]

"And constructed above you seven strong [heavens]
And made [therein] a burning lamp"[Surah 78:12,13]

in both verses 71:16 and 78:13 the word lamp is translated for arabic word سِرَاجًا while the word lamp from verse 41:12 is translated for arabic word مَصَابِيحَ . So when we compare the ayaths
we can see that all the three verses starts by referring the seven heavens and then says about the stars created referred as lamps.

so the lamp has to refer either star or some type or stage of a star.

next lets compare it with the verse 67:5

"And He completed them as seven heavens within two days and inspired in each heaven its command. And We adorned the nearest heaven with lamps and as protection. That is the determination of the Exalted in Might, the Knowing."[Surah 41:12]

"And We have certainly beautified the nearest heaven with stars and have made them thrown at the devils and have prepared for them the punishment of the Blaze."[Surah 67-5]
 
by comparing we could understand that both verses mentioned lamps as adornment and made as protection by stoning devils


from verse 41:12 (given above) we came to know that the arabic word مَصَابِيحَ referred some sort of a star.

hence the arabic word مَصَابِيحَ from verse 67:5 also has to refer some sort of a star.


even its given in ur article its mentioned that they referred to pulsars(a type of neutron stars)


but my doubt is that the verse 67:5 says that stars are made to stone at devils while ur article says only radiation from stars are made like stoned at devils. i feel ur points are contradicting.

As to Hadiths, what disagrees with the Glorious Quran gets discarded.  Many hadiths are fabricated or paraphrased, because they were written 300 years after the Prophet, peace be upon him.  Please visit:
www.answering-christianity.com/warning.htm

there is nothing wrong in dicarting a hadith if it is against quran.
my question is what if we are using false hadiths for made in a way which fits with the quran.

assalamu alaikum brother OSAMA ABDALLAH.. waiting for ur reply to my above reply 

assalamu alaikum brothers

when i read this article i came up with some doubts. inshallah hope u will clarify this.

1.its mentioned in the article that the jins where shot down by a shooting flame, whether it be a Gamma Ray Burst, a Cosmic Jet, or any other similar fire.


but [surah 67:5] it says
And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

in this verse it says LAMPS are used as missiles

the literal meaning for missile is
"an object which is forcibly propelled at a target, either by hand or from a mechanical weapon"

so by comparing the literal meaning of missile with ur article. LAMPS i.e, pulsars,black hles or neutron stars (whatever it may be) should be used as missiles. but ur article says that only radiation (gamma ray burst or cosmic jet or any other type of rays or fire) and not pulsars,black holes or neutron stars are targetted at them. can u plz explain this ?

2.when moved through ur website. i see two answers or different explanations for verse 67:5

one explanation in this article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/shooting_stars_miracle.htm)
saying that the verse refers PULSARS.

while another article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/4701.htm)
says like this "these verses present no problem regarding science, because they are not talking about celestial phenoema as objects of scientific study, but instead talking about celestial phenomena as sources of misguidance for soothsayers and astrologers. In brief, the Qur'an simply says about them that for astrologers, their misguidance regarding celestial phenomena will be a source of punishment for them, and that they can gain no information about the future by trying to look at the stars."

my question is why this dilemma.. because,for people searching for a correct answer will put them in doubts if they where to see 2 different opinions. if one is true or a correct answer then why cant u remove the other one ?

3. i wish to quote a statement of our brother regarding this verse because im not satisfied with that point

he said that "Think about that, could stars then not be used as missiles if they are going THAT fast along with the universe.
Our own sun goes at 220 km/s. That's pretty fast if you ask me: Especially If I was moving at a slower speed next to that star. Not only would the star's immense gravity pull me towards it, but it would be coming at me at 220 km/s!  And if I get close enough, I would get incinerated."

i m not satisfied with this answer because, stars with 220 km/s may be like missiles to us. but here these missiles are to shoot jinns.
it given in wikipedia that
"Some of the closest known neutron stars are RX J1856.5-3754, which is about 400 light years away, and PSR J0108-1431 at about 424 light years.[49] RX J1856.5-3754 is a member of a close group of neutron stars called The Magnificent Seven."

so i think jins need to be too faster to reach the 2nd heaven or somewhere in our universe (as we are in the lower heaven)

so what i was trying t say is that speed of a star will be too low for a jinn (logically i think so)

4.i feel really weird in discarting hadiths which we feel illogical (Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5538)

i mean then how could we claim other hadiths are authentic which speaks about prophets moral code and the hadiths which usually people call PEARLS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD.

once an atheist frnd of mine quoted like this
"muslims if they feel,hadiths are good they take it. if felt illogical they discart it."
what will be ur answer for this statement ?

assalamu alaikum brothers

when i read this article i came up with some doubts. inshallah hope u will clarify this.

1.its mentioned in the article that the jins where shot down by a shooting flame, whether it be a Gamma Ray Burst, a Cosmic Jet, or any other similar fire.


but [surah 67:5] it says
And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps and We have made these missiles for the Shaitans, and We have prepared for them the chastisement of burning.

in this verse it says LAMPS are used as missiles

the literal meaning for missile is
"an object which is forcibly propelled at a target, either by hand or from a mechanical weapon"

so by comparing the literal meaning of missile with ur article. LAMPS i.e, pulsars,black hles or neutron stars (whatever it may be) should be used as missiles. but ur article says thatonly radiation (gamma ray burst or cosmic jet or any other type of rays or fire) and not pulsars,black holes or neutron stars are targetted at them. can u plz explain this ?

2.when moved through ur website. i see two answers or different explanations for verse 67:5

one explanation in this article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/shooting_stars_miracle.htm)
saying that the verse refers PULSARS.

while another article (link: http://www.answering-christianity.com/quran/4701.htm)
says like this "these verses present no problem regarding science, because they are not talking about celestial phenoema as objects of scientific study, but instead talking about celestial phenomena as sources of misguidance for soothsayers and astrologers. In brief, the Qur'an simply says about them that for astrologers, their misguidance regarding celestial phenomena will be a source of punishment for them, and that they can gain no information about the future by trying to look at the stars."

my question is why this dilemma.. because,for people searching for a correct answer will put them in doubts if they where to see 2 different opinions. if one is true or a correct answer then why cant u remove the other one ?

3. i wish to quote a statement of our brother regarding this verse because im not satisfied with that point

he said that "Think about that, could stars then not be used as missiles if they are going THAT fast along with the universe.
Our own sun goes at 220 km/s. That's pretty fast if you ask me: Especially If I was moving at a slower speed next to that star. Not only would the star's immense gravity pull me towards it, but it would be coming at me at 220 km/s!  And if I get close enough, I would get incinerated."

i m not satisfied with this answer because, stars with 220 km/s may be like missiles to us. but here these missiles are to shoot jinns.
it given in wikipedia that
"Some of the closest known neutron stars are RX J1856.5-3754, which is about 400 light years away, and PSR J0108-1431 at about 424 light years.[49] RX J1856.5-3754 is a member of a close group of neutron stars called The Magnificent Seven."

so i think jins need to be too faster to reach the 2nd heaven or somewhere in our universe (as we are in the lower heaven)

so what i was trying t say is that speed of a star will be too low for a jinn (logically i think so)

4.i feel really weird in discarting hadiths which we feel illogical (Sahih Muslim, Book 026, Number 5538)

i mean then how could we claim other hadiths are authentic which speaks about prophets moral code and the hadiths which usually people call PEARLS OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD.

once an atheist frnd of mine quoted like this
"muslims if they feel,hadiths are good they take it. if felt illogical they discart it."
what will be ur answer for this statement ?