Author Topic: The identity of Holy spirit  (Read 3742 times)

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Offline Mohammed.Rashid

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The identity of Holy spirit
« on: January 03, 2014, 03:18:38 PM »
Brother Osama
I was sent an article by a christian that muslims are wrong and confused when they believe that holy spirit is angel gabriel(pbuh).
By the grace mercy and help of Allah I refuted it. I do believe that its not muslims but christian themselves who are confused. To know more we must read it.

Also Akhi Sorry to say this but u did not my last article 60 questions that invalidates christianity.
If you do believe it sounded reasonable then I earnestly ask you to publicize it as much as possible.

The point of the article by the christian is highlighted in red color

1st paragraph . Long before Muhammad was born Arabic Christians already were referring to God as Allah and millions continue to do so today. The Allah of Islam however is definitely not the God of the Bible. For while Muslims passionately defend the unity of God they patently deny his triunity. Thus they recoil at the notion of God as Father reject the unique deity of Jesus Christ the Son and renounce the divine identity of the Holy Spirit.
 
Rashid : Yes its true that Christians arabs had referred to God as Allah and do so today too. Also I cant Understand what the writer of this absurd article meant when he said Allah of Islam is not the God of the bible. Did he meant about the concept  If Yes then its true that Allah is not what Christians think about Him that He is 3 in 1.He has son and daughters  dont worry its an example. Its not just muslims who deny his trinity or triunity but the jews the chosen people of God of the bible do too long before even jesus was born for approx 1500 years BC when moses got the law. If he thinks that denying trinity or triunity is denying God of the bible then surely Jews also dont believe in the God of the bible too and trinity so arr they blasphemers. So  do jews also deny the god of the bible.
 
2nd paragraph . First while the Master taught his disciples to pray Our Father in heaven devotees of Muhammad find the very notion offensive. To their way of thinking calling God Father and Jesus Christ Son suggests sexual procreation. According to the Quran It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah that He should beget a son (Sura 1935). Allah begetteth not nor is he begotten (Sura 1123). The Bible however does not use the term begotten with respect to the Father and the Son in the sense of sexual reproduction but rather in the sense of special relationship. Thus when the apostle John speaks of Jesus as the only begotten of the Father (John 114 NKJV emphasis added) he is underscoring the unique deity of Christ. Likewise when the apostle Paul refers to Jesus as the firstborn over all creation (Colossians 115 emphasis added) he is emphasizing Christs preeminence or prime position as the Creator of all things (Colossians 11619). Christians are sons of God through adoption. Jesus is God the Son from all eternity.
 


Rashid : As for the word begotten son of God   This term exists in John 3:16John 1:14 18. 3:18 1 John 4:9 etc . Christians as time had passed are made to believe that begotten son does not means  that he was created made born through sexual interference or intercourse but he was God who existed from the beginning.Even if they dint then how much logical it seem in context of the bible and is there any truth in it  Let us see.
 
What the jewish encyclopedia says about this .
The phrase the only begotten son (John iii. 16) is merely another rendering for the beloved son. The Septuagint translates  (thine only son) of Gen. xxii. 2 by thy beloved son. But in this translation there is apparent a special use of the root  of frequent occurrence in rabbinical literature as a synonym of  (choose elect. see Bacher Die Aelteste Terminologie der J├╝dischen Schriftauslegung s.v.) the only begotten thus reverts to the attribute of the servant who is the chosen one.


Christians todays are themselves confused on the term begotten son of God. Proof is that different famous or translation of this verse on word term begotten son of God of John 3:16.

NIV  . For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

KJV. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

NKJV.  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

RSV  . For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

NASB.  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

BUT IN  HEBREWS 11:17 ON THE MATTER OF BEGOTTEN BETWEEN ABRAHAM AND ISAAC  THE DOUBLE STANDARD OF THE TRANSLATORS are EXPOSED

NIV  . By faith Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac. and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

KJV. By faith Abraham when he was tried offered up Isaac and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.

NKJV. By faith Abraham when he was tested offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son

RSV. By faith Abraham when he was tested offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises was ready to offer up his only son

NASB. By faith Abraham when he was tested offered up Isaac and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son.

Hence the translation in NIV & RSV says that Jesus was his only son and not begotten which proves that what  jewish encyclopedia claims  the term beloved son is another phrase for chosen servant or in other words a Godly man or a great prophet is not a lie. If christians disagree then Christian must answer to Quran when it claims that begotten means sexually procreating is also not wrong as we can read in Gen 16:11 to 16 that Abraham through Hagar had begotten Ishmael much before Isaac inspite of that in Hebrews 11:17 all translators translate that Isaac was his only or only begotten son. So it proves that what jewish encyclopedia claims is true on the term only begotten son surely means that  a special son or a special one and begotten means sexually procreating is also not wrong as Abraham wives indeed bore ishmael and isaac. This is not translated by jews or muslims but by Christians themselves so instead of claiming that muslims are confused or mis understand trinity or begotten son . Christians themselves should sit on one table and discuss as to what does this term begotten son means. They themselves are confused so how possibly can they say that we muslims are confused.

SO WHAT IS IT?  MIS.TRANSLATION CONFUSION OR MISINTERPRETATION  IT IS ALL 3 IN 1 ANOTHER TRINITY OR TRINITY II CREATED BY TRINITARIAN II ...

As for so called apostle paul claiming the firstborn over all creation col 1:15 is jesus ... ask his(paul) worshippers about Melchizedek (also Read my 60 questions and facts on Christianity) to answer dat.

KJV Psalms 2:7  . I will declare the decree the Lord hath said unto me Thou art my Son this day have I begotten thee. ..........Also if u want u can read all the translation for this verse too where they have applied the formula of trinity II as usual.

The chosen people of God i.e. the jews claim that this verse is directed towards David and some Christian commentators do agree but again another Trinitarians II Christians bible interpreters and Biblicist will claim that this is referring to Jesus and is a prophecy but again their double stand is exposed where one more translator claim its a mistranslation by applying the formula of trinity II again here.

TLB Psalm 2:7. His chosen one replies I will reveal the everlasting purposes of God for the Lord has said to me You are my Son. This is your Coronation Day. Today I am giving you your glory.

As for jesus being a being a begotten son made through sexual interference is  The  early and medieval Christians indeed believed that jesus was made through sexual procreation to which the Quran refers in  Surah 19:35 refers too. Leave early even today one Christian sect by the name of Mormons do believe that it is true.They indeed have a strong reason to believe it. Read below

Luke 1:35  . The angel said to Mary The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will cover you. For this reason the baby will be holy and will be called the Son of God.

Luke 1:35. The angel answered The Holy Spirit will come on you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

Any person who does not believes in blind following will surely as to what does this word overshadow or cover means in this context . If u r 1 of them then ask the Trinitarians II to answer it..
 
Also what does this term adopted son means and from where had these people got this phrase from . Is God working in or is there any heavenly hospital or orphanage? Hence  MT 13:13
 
3rd paragraph . Furthermore Muslims dogmatically denounce the Christian declaration of Christs unique deity as the unforgivable sin of shirk. As the Quran puts it God forgiveth not the sin of joining other gods with Him. but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this (Sura 4:116). While Muslims readily affirm the sinlessness of Christ they adamantly deny his sacrifice upon the cross and subsequent resurrection. In doing so they deny the singular historic fact which demonstrates that Jesus does not stand in a long line of peers from Abraham to Muhammad but is God in human flesh. The Quranic phrase Allah raised him up (Sura 4:158) is taken to mean that Jesus was supernaturally raptured rather than resurrected from the dead. In Islamic lore God made someone look like Jesus and this look.alike was crucified in his place. In recent years the myth that Judas was crucified in place of Jesus has been popularized in Muslim circles by a late medieval invention titled The Gospel of Barnabas. Against the weight of history and evidence the Quran exudes they killed him not nor crucified him but so it was made to appear to them (Sura 4157).


Rashid : Yes it is true that associating anything with God inspite of knowing it is wrong is an unforgivable sin . Shirk

Muslims do believe that  Prophet jesus(peace be upon him) was sinless like all prophets so nothing special or unique about it.The writers of bible(who mostly were jews) have corrupted and accused great prophets of sins from incest(prophet Lot pbuh) idolatory (Prophet aaron pbuh) to adultery(Prophet David pbuh) they did not left their own savior Prophet Moses (pbuh) from sinning like his disobeying the God at the rock and on the issue of circumcision.

The only sinless man in the bible besides jesus is Prophet Job(pbuh) in Job 1:1. So what makes jesus pbuh unique in the bible of christians themselves.

Was Jesus crucified ?

Leave Quran and gospel of barnabas aside.As Christians dont and will never believe in it? So let me answer this from ur  own scriptures

Just two verses to disapprove this theory of crucifixion.

Mt 26:39. And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed saying My Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me nevertheless not as I will but as you will.

Hebrews 5:7 . During the days of Jesus life on earth he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

Was Jesus taken up  Yes it is true that Muslims believe that jesus was taken up and will return sometime before the day of judgement to lead the muslims and fight the anti christ along with  Muhammad Al mahdi  (a descendant of Prophet Mohammed pbuh through his daughter Fatima  may Allah be pleased with her)

Quran indeed says that God raised jesus up but It is Gospel of barnabas and not quran which claims that his betrayer judas was made to look  like him and was unable to speak for his defence  a prophecy fulfilled .Read  Ec 10:8 and psalm 7:15  Lo and behold. How the formula of trinitarian II is not applied here. Again MT 13:13

4th and final paragraph . Finally in addition to rejecting the divinity of Jesus Islam also renounces the divine identity of the Holy Spirit. Far from being the third person of the Triune God who inspired the text of the Bible Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is the archangel Gabriel who dictated the Quran to Muhammad over a period of twenty.three years. Ironically while the Holy Spirit who dictated the Quran is said to be the archangel Gabriel Islam identifies the Holy Spirit promised by Jesus in John 14 as Muhammad. The Bible however roundly rejects such corruptions and misrepresentation. Biblically the Holy Spirit is neither an angel nor a mere mortal rather he is the very God who redeems us from our sins and will one day resurrect us to life eternal (Acts 5:34 Romans 8:11).

Rashid : The identity of Holy spirit To understand the identity of holy spirit in the bible let us see what the God in the old testament says.  God in old testament says .

Isaiah 443 . For I will pour water on the thirsty land and streams on the dry ground I will pour out my Spirit on your offspring and my blessing on your descendants.

Joel 2:28 (RV) I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy.

Hence . In Judaism  Hebrew . ruach ha kodesh  Holy spirit refers to divine aspect of prophecy and wisdom 
 
What does Islam says  on the aspect of Arabic Ruh al Quds or Holy spirit

What does Quran says  God in Quran says to angels

Quran 15:29 . When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit fall ye down in obeisance unto him. 

A scholar of Islam says . breathed of My spirit into him.  cast a reflection of My Divine characteristics on him....  This shows that the soul of man implies life knowledge power will discretion and other human characteristics in the aggregate. These are in reality a slight reflection of Divine characteristics that has been cast on the human body which was originally created from dried clay.

So one can say that Holy spirit signifies wisdom and some other divine characteristics in both religions.But christians had raised him to the level of God or made it God.

Man should not try to be too curious and try to obtain the knowledge of things which will do  no good to Him Hence in God says in Quran

Quran 17:85 . They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you (O men.)

As for Islam saying that Holy spirit is referring to gabriel is a misconception mis interpretation created by the Trinitarians II. Not a single verse in the Quran says that Gabriel is holy spirit. Some had guessed it to be Gabriel but this is an assumption or guess work but Quran says

Quran 53:28 . They follow but a guess and verily guess is no substitute for the truth

Also God in the Quran says 112:4 . And there is none like unto Him. 

So if they compare it to a spirit which is in all creatures . they are contradicting the above verse which says that there is nothing like God.

The spirit of truth is said by muslims in John 14 is referring to Prophet Mohammed pbuh and not holy spirit

Jn 14:16. As for spirit of truth . And I will ask the Father and he will give you another Counsellor to be with you for ever 17.  the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him for he lives with you and will be Some early manuscripts and is in you.

To be with you forever  means  His teachings which are recorded in Hadith translated as tradition it contains deeds and saying of Prophet Mohammed pbuh which a good practicing muslim tries to implicate or apply  in his everyday life hence in this way he is with us forever.To be with us forever  should not be taken literally as in heb 9:27 is mention ed that everybody will die . If not then it contradicts the statement of jesus in the above verse.

What do you think now  Who is confused on the issue of holy spirit ?Islam OR  christianitys Trinitarians II  i.e the false prophets prophesied by jesus in Mt 24:5.

So dear christian readers
Accept Islam . Profess in ur heart and believe that . That there is only one God and jesus and Mohammed (peace be upon them both) are His messengers.

Quran 17:7 .  if you do good you do good for your ownselves and if you do evil (you do it) against yourselves.

Quran 36:17 . My duty is convey the message

Finally  Allah knows the best

 

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