Is Hell eternal?

[mclinkin94]

I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.

[QuranSearchCom]

I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

Thank you for bringing back this article .  I've written it during the early years of this website.  Now that I read it years later, I see that I've made some very solid arguments.  But I removed the article for two reasons:

1-  This is a topic that is very big to Allah Almighty.  Writing shallow articles about it could be very misleading.

2-  During the times when I desperately needed authors and help to help me tackle the OCEAN of the anti-Islamic articles out there, some of the brothers got to the heads of many my authors, and I was forced to take a vote on whether to keep this article or remove it, and it was voted that I should remove it.  So I removed it to keep the unity.  I couldn't take on the infidels by myself.  So I sacrificed the article. 

But still, even after reading the article years later, I still don't feel comfortable about writing shallow articles about such a deep topic like this.  On a side note, this is what bothers me from false religions and cults like Christianity and Shiism.  They make very very serious and deep claims (Jesus is our Creator [1], His Mother is the Goddess of the Universe [1], Ahlul Bayt people are with GOD Almighty ON HIS THRONE, and His Throne is "under their feet" [2], and that we must seek them for Forgiveness, Mercy, Guidance, Aid [2], etc...) about GOD Almighty that are VERY SERIOUS yet based on very shallow opinions and arguments.  I don't want to be on the same boat as those deviant people, who are the lords of nonsense and noise.



Will a Camel really go through a Needle's Eye?

Let us look at the following Verses:

?7:40 ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ??

"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.  (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'  When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?'  Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 19:23-26)"   


Like I said, this article was written during the early years of the website.  I mean, I know well that the Verses that were mentioned (brother Haleem sent them to me) about the Camel going through the needle's eyes from both the Bible and the Holy Quran gave a very sound argument, and quite frankly I till this day love this argument, but I fear there is much to it than what appears on the surface.  We have to be very careful when we exegete the Holy Quran, akhi.  We can't just carelessly write articles.  I also don't want to be making claims such as these if they turn out to be false.  This is almost very personal with GOD Almighty.

Also, the camel going through the needle's eye argument isn't complete for the following reasons:

1-  Allah Almighty could've really meant that it is impossible for the disbelievers to leave Hell, and that Allah Almighty spoke about it in our limited logic and language.

2-  Prophet Jesus' (peace be upon him) Saying about the camel and the needle's eye in the Bible isn't 100% authentic, nor is it Quran.  Therefore, we can't base an entire belief on it.

But yet at the same time, nothing is impossible with Allah Almighty.  So:

1-  Will Allah Almighty really make a camel go through a needle's eye in the Life after and end all punishments in Hell?

2-  Will Allah Almighty eventually empty all Hell, because He is the Most Merciful?

3-  Did not Christ say in the verse above that nothing is impossible with GOD Almighty?

4-  I remember an old American Christian friend of mine told me once that "the needle's eye" also referred to fortresses' openings in the old days where they launched arrows against the incoming enemy from.  So if there is a big enough opening, then certainly a small camel could probably pass through it.

If you also google it, then you'll find that it could also mean a castle's gate.

5-  So will Allah Almighty have a fortress with some opening, or an opening (that would be called a needle's eye) be made in the Life After, and have a Camel pass through it to end all of Hell's punishments?

6-  Will or Would this "needle eye" be referring to an Entrance to Heaven, if Heaven were considered a "fortress"?  So would a Camel pass through one of Heaven's Gates?  Notice again in the Noble Verse above "....no opening will there be of the gates of heaven...."

I don't know, and I don't know if Hell will eventually become empty or not.  I can't make a claim that I am not 100% sure about regarding this, especially on topics like this.  I incline towards Hell will eventually become empty.  After all, Allah Almighty intended for all, including satan himself (who was in Heaven before), to be all in Heaven with GOD Almighty under His Eternal and Divine Love, Mercy, Generosity, Kindness, and most of all Under Him to Worship Him and to Glorify Him for Ever.  But then again, I don't know.  This is one of the mysteries of the unknown, and it was made unknown for us on purpose by Allah Almighty:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"  (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).  May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi Mclinkin94.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[mclinkin94]

I wanted to get your views on this.

I also wanted to show 2 articles that suggest hell isn't eternal:

http://www.angelfire.com/bug/answering/hell.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20the%20punishment%20of%20hell%20eternal%20FM3.htm

What is very odd is that the first article claims it is written by Osama at the end..But it is not in answering Christianity.

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94,

Thank you for bringing back this article .  I've written it during the early years of this website.  Now that I read it years later, I see that I've made some very solid arguments.  But I removed the article for two reasons:

1-  This is a topic that is very big to Allah Almighty.  Writing shallow articles about it could be very misleading.

2-  During the times when I desperately needed authors and help to help me tackle the OCEAN of the anti-Islamic articles out there, some of the brothers got to the heads of many my authors, and I was forced to take a vote on whether to keep this article or remove it, and it was voted that I should remove it.  So I removed it to keep the unity.  I couldn't take on the infidels by myself.  So I sacrificed the article. 

But still, even after reading the article years later, I still don't feel comfortable about writing shallow articles about such a deep topic like this.  On a side note, this is what bothers me from false religions and cults like Christianity and Shiism.  They make very very serious and deep claims (Jesus is our Creator [1], His Mother is the Goddess of the Universe [1], Ahlul Bayt people are with GOD Almighty ON HIS THRONE, and His Throne is "under their feet" [2], and that we must seek them for Forgiveness, Mercy, Guidance, Aid [2], etc...) about GOD Almighty that are VERY SERIOUS yet based on very shallow opinions and arguments.  I don't want to be on the same boat as those deviant people, who are the lords of nonsense and noise.



Will a Camel really go through a Needle's Eye?

Let us look at the following Verses:

?7:40 ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ??

"To those who reject Our signs and treat them with arrogance, no opening will there be of the gates of heaven, nor will they enter the garden, until the camel can pass through the eye of the needle: Such is Our reward for those in sin.  (The Noble Quran, 7:40)"

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven.  Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'  When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, 'Who then can be saved?'  Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.'  (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 19:23-26)"   


Like I said, this article was written during the early years of the website.  I mean, I know well that the Verses that were mentioned (brother Haleem sent them to me) about the Camel going through the needle's eyes from both the Bible and the Holy Quran gave a very sound argument, and quite frankly I till this day love this argument, but I fear there is much to it than what appears on the surface.  We have to be very careful when we exegete the Holy Quran, akhi.  We can't just carelessly write articles.  I also don't want to be making claims such as these if they turn out to be false.  This is almost very personal with GOD Almighty.

Also, the camel going through the needle's eye argument isn't complete for the following reasons:

1-  Allah Almighty could've really meant that it is impossible for the disbelievers to leave Hell, and that Allah Almighty spoke about it in our limited logic and language.

2-  Prophet Jesus' (peace be upon him) Saying about the camel and the needle's eye in the Bible isn't 100% authentic, nor is it Quran.  Therefore, we can't base an entire belief on it.

But yet at the same time, nothing is impossible with Allah Almighty.  So:

1-  Will Allah Almighty really make a camel go through a needle's eye in the Life after and end all punishments in Hell?

2-  Will Allah Almighty eventually empty all Hell, because He is the Most Merciful?

3-  Did not Christ say in the verse above that nothing is impossible with GOD Almighty?

4-  I remember an old American Christian friend of mine told me once that "the needle's eye" also referred to fortresses' openings in the old days where they launched arrows against the incoming enemy from.  So if there is a big enough opening, then certainly a small camel could probably pass through it.

If you also google it, then you'll find that it could also mean a castle's gate.

5-  So will Allah Almighty have a fortress with some opening, or an opening (that would be called a needle's eye) be made in the Life After, and have a Camel pass through it to end all of Hell's punishments?

6-  Will or Would this "needle eye" be referring to an Entrance to Heaven, if Heaven were considered a "fortress"?  So would a Camel pass through one of Heaven's Gates?  Notice again in the Noble Verse above "....no opening will there be of the gates of heaven...."

I don't know, and I don't know if Hell will eventually become empty or not.  I can't make a claim that I am not 100% sure about regarding this, especially on topics like this.  I incline towards Hell will eventually become empty.  After all, Allah Almighty intended for all, including satan himself (who was in Heaven before), to be all in Heaven with GOD Almighty under His Eternal and Divine Love, Mercy, Generosity, Kindness, and most of all Under Him to Worship Him and to Glorify Him for Ever.  But then again, I don't know.  This is one of the mysteries of the unknown, and it was made unknown for us on purpose by Allah Almighty:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit (of inspiration). Say: "The Spirit (cometh) by command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you, (O men!)"  (The Noble Quran, 17:85)"

I hope this helps, Insha'Allah (if Allah Almighty is Willing).  May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi Mclinkin94.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Thanks for letting me in on the detail! I knew this article had a similar format to Answering-Christianity and the arguments were very solid and well-written!

I think you had good reasons to delete that article, it is a very deep topic that is very controversial. Many Muslims I would say believe that hell is eternal. When you start showing them that the Quran may suggest that it isn't eternal, you would hurt Islamic unity.

I'm glad I have found both articles, they were very eye-opening and well written!

You provided a linguistic basis to show that hell may not be eternal.

I agreed with the camel passing through a needle point. I actually disregarded that in the article myself. Initially, I was thinking "why would anyone use the bible (a potentially corrupt source) to translate the Quran?". In my opinion, the Quran should never be translated by any source outside of itself. Especially a potentially corrupted source. So I definitely agree with your point.

Secondly, Allah could make a camel pass through a needle point if he choses to. This means, that everyone would be in hell as long as Allah wills. I agree with this point as well. But it could also mean that the camel would never pass through the needle so punishment is eternal.

It looks as if Allah has allowed BOTH interpretations in the Quran, and there may be a divine reason for this. You even addressed this reason in your article (that is how good that article is!). If Allah directly told everyone that hell will be emptied, sinners would have the confidence to keep on sinning. Allah would indirectly show you that hell may be emptied so that he could show his compassion.

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Mclinkin94 and everyone,

I thought his would be of an interest to everyone: https://www.google.com/#q=what+is+space+needle.  Apparently, the term "needle" is also used today.  I learned about "Space Needle" from the following CNN article:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/us/seattle-helicopter-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[shabeer_hassan]

[JesusisGod]

The problem with Allah allowing Someone into heaven after a certain amount of punishment in hell is that it takes away God's hatred of sin. If He doesn't punish sin eternally then He doesn't hate sin. This is not a case I've heard any Muslim make most Muslims I meet agree that sin is a problem between humanity and God. As far as Allah being the most merciful this is not the case with a half punishment in hell because the ones who are supposed to receive mercy are being punished. Mercy is not receiving what you deserve for wronging somebody. In this case they do receive punishment so Allah is not being merciful towards them. At least not the most merciful because certainly there are even some humans who have forgiven someone completely and without cause for retribution. If God is the greatest possible being in existence then He can't forgive half way. God is obligated by His great nature to forgive completely when He chooses to forgive.  I see the approach the man is taking in arguing for this position but I believe it perverts Gods holy character to say He will allow some one into heaven after punishment. What God does he does infinitely if He love's someone he will love them infinitely if He rejects someone he will do so infinitely if He forgives someone He will do so infinitely. What this teaching suggests is that people make it to heaven on different merits either because they were forgiven or because they finished with the punishment Allah had for them in which case he is not the most merciful but merely fulfilling justice in punishing someone for their sins that is if Allah's punishment is not eternal. Which I believe the quran teaches that it is and if it is he is not being just in his punishment to allow some into heaven after punishment. The biggest problem with Muslims concept of God is their idea of forgiveness. How can God be a just judge if He is also forgiving/merciful. How does any one make it to heaven if we have all transgressed God's laws either by going against our God given conscious or against the laws written in holy books. God by his very just and holy (perfect) nature has to judge and reject us for our imperfections because if He accepts any one without a punishment then He is not just. If He is not just how can He judge? I think the real question here is How can God forgive.           

[shabeer_hassan]

[JesusisGod]

Again i post here that eternal separation from God or eternal death are the only just punishment for any sin no matter the size it may very well be that the author of the quran may not have a clear understanding of sin and it's consequences,but in this case I think it is the reader that has come to a wrong conclusion trying to justify himself before God. All men are guilty of sin you know that if God were not patient toward us none would be left alive right now. Why try to say that some is worse than others they are all the same corruption breeds corruption and none of it should be left unpunished no matter the size if a man steals one dollar he will soon steal a million. We know that the only reason they stop is because they are caught and fear punishment. Even if a man never steals again in his mind he is forever corrupt and temptation if it is resisted is resisted because of impending judgement. Still don't understand how can accept anybody if we are all sinners.     

[submit]

Again i post here that eternal separation from God or eternal death are the only just punishment for any sin no matter the size it may very well be that the author of the quran may not have a clear understanding of sin and it's consequences

God create humans and gave death to humans so that later He can grant eternal life to humans for a reason. One to show that none is similar to Him Unique and Everlasting.
Second, eternal life for eternal reward and eternal punishment. Eternal punishment are for those that have accepted covenant from God but later opposing the covenant by making partners or equals to God.

In Islam , the Almighty Creator will judge fairly. If good deeds outweigh sins. You enter heaven. However one particular sin that will cause human not able to outweigh the sin would be making partners and equals to God. Or believe that God split into many gods by incarnations or manifestations thus causing qualities among new form of gods.

[fadi]

[fadi]

[QuranSearchCom]

From http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2839.msg13548.html#msg13548:


Noble Verse 7:40 is talking about the infidels who are arrogant towards the Miracles of Islam.  Not arrogant people in general.  And the Bible specifically speaks about rich people, not arrogant people.  Arrogant people can be from the poor and the rich, especially the ones who are arrogant towards Islam.  The Noble Verse referred to those.

The comparison here is off.  The Bible is corrupt for making a general statement about the rich people.  There is nothing wrong about being rich!  Period.  This contradiction between the OT and NT is clear garbage from the Bible.  Again, the OT warns all, especially the poor, to not covet.


Ironically, Jesus did NOTHING BUT COVETING during his 40 days and nights of temptation from satan.  He got so bad and so weak that Angels had to come down to help him, literally "attend him".  He was having "evil desires", and he "suffered" from satan's temptations. These quotes are straight out of the Bible:

www.answering-christianity.com/satanic_verses.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/trinity_crucified.htm




Divine Promise to Empty Hell:

Let us analyze Noble Words ?? ?? ?? in great details:


?7:40 ?? ?? ?? ? ? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ??

"....the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle ?? ?? ?? ...." (The Glorious Quran, 7:40)


1-  Noble Word (until) speaks about a time to come.


2-  Noble Word (enter) can also mean merge:

[022:061]  That is because God merges ? night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is God Who hears and sees (all things).

[031:029]  Seest thou not that God merges ? Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that God is well-acquainted with all that ye do?

Noble Word ? is derived from .


3-  Noble Word ?? (eye) does not mean eye.  It is referring to Hell.  This is the same Word used for the creation of the Jinn:

?15:27 ?? ??

[015:027]  And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire.

  is derived from ??


4-  Noble Word (needle) here can also refer to the Cluster of Hell's structure, since the Noble Word really means threading.  Not an actual needle.  Or it could refer to a specific place or point near the Gates of Hell:

From https://www.almaany.com/en/dict/ar-en/%D8%AE%D9%8A%D8%A7%D8%B7/:

? means:

Maker of costumes
Tailor
A maker of clothes

From Google Translate:

Threading means ?, which is sister word to ?, and both of them are derived from :

FromGoogle Translate.

Thread means , which is what ? is derived from.



The Cosmic Webs and Clusters in the Quran:

Allah Almighty did talk about the Cosmic Webs and Clusters of the Universe in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/cosmic_web_miracle.htm

So it is quite possible that Noble Word is referring to a complex Structure and Clusters of Hell.



Also, similar to BURAQ, Prophet Muhammad's Angel-Horse, that ascended the Prophet to Heaven and back to Earth, it seems that there is an ANGEL-CAMEL that will ultimately go through an eye of a needle, - perhaps a location near the Gates of Hell called a needle, - and after this event, Allah Almighty will order for all inhabitants of Hell to be sent up to Heaven.

This statement from Allah Almighty is not a statement of impossibility.  It is clearly a Divine Promise and Prophecy of an event that will take place, and will mark the End of all Torture in Hell:

www.answering-christianity.com/hell.htm

And Allah Almighty always Knows Best.




Could one be taken from Heaven into Hell?

Is it possible that one who is in Heaven end up taken to Hell?  Will we have Free Wills in Heaven?  Could some stray in their thoughts and actions to a point of blasphemy?  We know Iblees (Iblis), who later became satan got stupid and blasphemed:

www.answering-christianity.com/adam.htm

It is a given in the Glorious Quran that that is quite possible to happen to us too.  So, it is possible that Hell will be used as a cleansing place.  Evil is not permitted in Heaven.  But there will be free wills there, as so did Iblis also have it.  So it is possible that Hell is not a forever place, but rather a cleansing and purifying place of great punishment and pain for a very very very long time.

Again, Allah Almighty Alone always Knows Best.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah