The names Ahmed and Mohammed in Jewish document that predates Prophet Mohammed ?

[Idris]

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

May Allah Almighty greatly bless you for your research, akhi.  Masha'Allah, as always, your work is of great quality!  Keep up the great work, akhi.  I am sorry for forgetting to backup the images that you requested earlier.  I completely forgot about them.  I will do that tomorrow, insha'Allah.

I will also link your findings in this thread to www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm and elsewhere, insha'Allah.

Take care akhi,
Osama Abdallah

[iknowi]

I've been looking into Ahmadiyya Islam, do you think the reference to Ahmed could suggest the prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian? (That's there prophet).

I've been reading Mirza Ghulam's book and i think he is sincere, his book is actually quite amazing (the philosophy of the teachings of Islam), although even if he is sincere i'm not sure if he is really a prophet, Ahmadiyyas interpret Khatamun Nabiyaan differently.

Anyhow, i still recommend everyone, and i mean EVERYONE read that book. Dont get it confused with another one of similar title. It's really that good.

[iknowi]

For those who dont know there is a small sect where they believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the prophesized Imam Mahdi, and he was apparently assigned actual prophethood (thats the only way to make an impact).

[Idris]

[khdrb]

Zohar is for kabbalists , some kind of magix and control, those who uses it are using it to play with the balances to be the top of the world, and to absorb the re-actions of the big sins they are making, they are now studying what is the re-action for any action they will make and make a ready plan in how to absorb it....

jews( hood ) in the Quran is an adjective not a tribe or a race... those people who make big sins and repent in the critical time or situation and tries to absorb the re-actions of their actions to stay alive. sabaeans is an adjective also for who leaves their fathers religion. christians ( nasara ) the supporters, hopefully in the cause of the only God.

dear brother IDRIS you are really IDRIS XD

[Idris]

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

I am sorry for forgetting to backup the images that you requested earlier.  I completely forgot about them.  I will do that tomorrow, insha'Allah.

I will also link your findings in this thread to www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm and elsewhere, insha'Allah.

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

It's OK brother, backup them when you'll get a bit time, by the way you can also preserve my newely added image from this thread [http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2305.0.html], since it contains valuable informations. Anyway, we are a team with a special task, engaged in "clarifying misconceptions", and we have to help each other, so feel free to use my resources in your debates Soon, when I open a blog, I will share with you many other findings.

Take care, and salam
Ahme (Poland, Warsaw)

[Ramihs97]

@Idris Brother in regards to the dead sea scrolls and this Zohar literature. Is it 100% empirical to declare it Ahmed ? Or is it only a small possibility?

Also, the word that was present in the dead sea scroll "Etmak" What have the rabbi's said it was ? Does it really mean anything? I have tried to find out what it meant but i found nothing.

[Idris]

[Idris]

Salam aleikum,

The Masoretes were a group of rabbis from Tiberias who begin the work of editing the Hebrew text in 6th century. You should ask yourself: why they decide to correct the text of the Torah exactly in the time of Mohammed and not earlier ?
For me it is obvious, when Mohammed (pbuh) came to Medina in 610 AD, the Jews recognized him as the promised Prophet from Torah, but they were disappointed that he is an Arab, since they were hoping that he will arise among them as an Israeli. And so they alarmed other rabbi in Palestine and Sham to change the scripture (it is however only my personal opinion)

By saying "the pre-Islamic Torah would have not made any modification" I meant of course the matter of changing the names Ahmad and Mohammad (pbuh), but only if we assume that they didn't really know that this prophet will be an Arab, because if we assume that indeed they knew he will be an Arab then it is possible that they were trying to hide at least his nativity, but left his name living in the hope that he will one among them. At this moment one can only speculate what exactly happened, only Almighty Allah know.

From ancient rabbinical quotations it is obvious that the earlier text was different from the Masoretic one, buy wait, now, after 60 years of editing, they finally presented to the world this crap know as The Great Isaiah Scroll (1QIsa^a). For example, take a look at the text of Isaiah 42:1 given by Rabbi Ibn Ezra and compare it with the Masoretic one:

Rabbi Ibn Ezra text (11th century AD)

Masoretic Text (10th century AD)

?? ? ? ?? ? ?? ? ? ? ?? ?? ??

You can see that is totally different... the Text of Ibn Ezra is much longer ! The text given by other Rabbis is also different !

[Idris]

Salam aleikum,

It is a fact also that many manuscripts of the Torah were burned and many of them were censored, so we don't know what has been lost, read the book The Censorship of Hebrew Books by William Popper:

Link: https://archive.org/details/censorshiphebre00poppgoog

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

I have received a message from Rabbi Ben Abrahamson and he confirms my view concerning the word Ahmad in the Book of Zohar:

"This verse in the Zohar quotes Isaiah 60. Yes, ahmad (written with vowels echmod) is written there. It means "I will delight". Prophecy is not any exact science. It is possible that it also predicted the Prophet (pbuh). !!!

So, I was not wrong about the idea of "Ahmad in Isaiah" as you can see it is indeed ahmad, but according to Rabbi Ben Abrahamson is not a name, but he admits that there is a possibility that it was reference to Prophet Mohammed (pbuh). When I've asked him about the authorship of Zohar he replied that "there is no proof that the Zohar is from 2nd century. But this is what most people believe due to its content. Some modern scholars want to say that is not true, but these same people claim the Torah and Quran is not true either."

However, in the Masoretic Text there is no word such as ? (ahmad or echmod) in Isaiah 60, so from what source he was quoting this verse ? ? ? It will remain a mystery to me, unless I find some other hints.

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

Wow.  May Allah Almighty bless you, dear brother.  Ameen.  Certainly, Rabbi Ben Abrahamson is a very important source that could insha'Allah benefit Islam.  He is an expert in Jewish Scriptures and he speaks very positively about Islam.  May Allah Almighty continue to guide him to Islam.  Ameen.  And may Allah Almighty continue to strengthen your faith and advance your knowledge and fruitful research.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Idris]

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

I have backed up this thread to:

www.answering-christianity.com/topic_2304.htm

I also changed the location of your image above to www.answering-christianity.com/76f0bdea508f2723.png inside your post.

I will backup all of your new images shortly, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah