Author Topic: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16  (Read 4565 times)

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Offline Monys

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Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« on: February 10, 2017, 07:51:54 PM »
"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.   (The Noble Quran, 4:16)"

According to Islamqa and Many Old Islamic Scholars
they said that this was in the beginning of Islam and the verses 15-16 in surah al Nisaa are Mansukh
and That Allah replaced it with the Lashes and stoning in Surah al noor
Is this true?

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2017, 08:52:09 PM »
Firstly, i want to know why are u either intentionaly quoting a manipulated translation, anyone who has read the quran knows that it does not talk about lewdness between 2 men but rather between the opposite sexes.

Secondly, quran has never been changed, it's preservation is far to complex for anyone to manipulate it.

Here is the correct translation from quran.com.

Quran[4:15] "Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way." Sahih international

Quran[4:16] "And the two who commit it among you, dishonor them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful." Sahih international

As u can see clearly what u quoted is an intentional manipulation of translation. The arabic quranic words have never been changed since there acient arabic from prophet muhammad pbuh time. Also at that time were thousands who memorized the entire quran and now there are millions, no matter how are people can try to make manipulated translation it doesn't matter since we can always translate the original text again to confirm the liars and if the liars SOMEHOW got hold of all qurans, no matter we have millions who memorized quran verse by verse.



As u can see there is nothing about 2 men, but opposite sexes, a man and a woman. I do not know wether if this was intentional. But if u are the same person who was banned recently, atleast be a man and admit to who u are. I noticed the similarities of what u post. U act like that ur just asking but there is a double standard that seems as though ur playing around with us qith these childish pranks. Stop keeping up this charade and if ur a real man hold a debate with us rather then playing these tricks, because they are growing old and showing how weak u are.

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
Also plz post a reference to this, or all it would mean is ur making it up. Just saying islamqa said this doesn't help i would like to see the link.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2017, 09:44:41 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

The Noble Verses are about homosexual gay men.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/are_homosexuals_real.htm

And regarding abrogation, there is no abrogation in the Glorious Quran:

www.answering-christianity.com/abrogation.htm

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2017, 09:47:04 PM »
But doea it not mention specifically "women." Wouldn't that make it about the opposite sex?

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2017, 09:49:29 PM »
Ok, i looked that the links u provided brother osama, aparently it is not always clear when reading different translations. I apologize brother monys for my misunderstanding.  =)

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2017, 09:55:38 PM »
Brother osama can u elaberate under what circumctances were these verse revealed, what was the historic contex of it. I read the life of prophet muhammad pbuh and listened to lectures i just never heard of an instance where there would be some form of a circumstance that this would be revealed, or unless allah swt just told this to us as a precaution.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2017, 11:53:35 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Adil,

Here are some analysis on the Noble Verses that insha'Allah will make this very clear:

"If any of your women are guilty of lewdness واللاتي ياتين الفاحشة من نسائكم, Take the evidence of four (Reliable) witnesses from amongst you against them; and if they testify, confine them to houses until death do claim them, or God ordain for them some (other) way.   (The Noble Quran, 4:15)"

"If two men among you are guilty of lewdness واللذان ياتيانها منكم, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone; for God is Oft-returning, Most Merciful.   (The Noble Quran, 4:16)"



اللاتي is a feminine plural for three or more females.  It can also be used for two or more females.  اللتين or اللتان is also plural of two only.  It's like saying those who commit crimes will be punished.  "those who" here can be more than 3 or less than 3.

اللذان is a masculine plural of two males only.  الذين is a plural of three or more males, or a mix of males and females that are more than three.




اللذان not الذين:

Throughout the Glorious Quran, Allah Almighty used الذين hundreds of times.  It means "those who".  For example, "those who believe and do righteous good deeds...".  But in Noble Verse 4:16, Allah Almighty didn't use الذين , which would've included males and females.  He instead here used اللذان TWO MALES or TWO MEN.

There are other Noble Verses that speak about adultery and fornication between men and women.  But the above Noble Verses are indisputably about lesbians and gays; about homosexuals.

Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/adultery_punishment.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/are_homosexuals_real.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/houses.htm


Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2017, 12:10:02 AM »
Walakum salam rahmatallahi wabarakatihu thanks brother osama, for the insight. I was just wondering as we know that all verses were revealed during times that were relevant for the event of that time. For example, when the hypocrites tried to attack aisha ra with a false blame of immorality, allah swt defended her with this ayah: If a Fasiq (liar- evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done. Quran: 49: 6


Just wondering what is the historical contex of that verse is. Or was it just as a warning.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2017, 12:14:34 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother,

That is a faulty rule.  You can't make it absolute and force the Glorious Quran's understanding and interpretation to be based just on the event, especially when the so-called event is not for sure accurate.  The Glorious Quran's interpretation must be done through the language of the Holy Quran and the Hadiths that may directly explain the certain Noble Verse.



اللذان is a masculine plural of TWO MALES.  I challenge any Arab to refute this.  The language is very clear, and it is about homosexuals.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2017, 12:20:23 AM »
No brother i wasn't basing it on that. I was wondering if there was any event in regards to it. I wasn't critising the legitimacy, but was just wondering if there was any event behind it. I know that not all verses came in regards to a specific event. I was only wondering if there was any event.

Offline Monys

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2017, 08:17:58 AM »
Firstly, i want to know why are u either intentionaly quoting a manipulated translation, anyone who has read the quran knows that it does not talk about lewdness between 2 men but rather between the opposite sexes.

Secondly, quran has never been changed, it's preservation is far to complex for anyone to manipulate it.

Here is the correct translation from quran.com.

Quran[4:15] "Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women - bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way." Sahih international

Quran[4:16] "And the two who commit it among you, dishonor them both. But if they repent and correct themselves, leave them alone. Indeed, Allah is ever Accepting of repentance and Merciful." Sahih international

As u can see clearly what u quoted is an intentional manipulation of translation. The arabic quranic words have never been changed since there acient arabic from prophet muhammad pbuh time. Also at that time were thousands who memorized the entire quran and now there are millions, no matter how are people can try to make manipulated translation it doesn't matter since we can always translate the original text again to confirm the liars and if the liars SOMEHOW got hold of all qurans, no matter we have millions who memorized quran verse by verse.



As u can see there is nothing about 2 men, but opposite sexes, a man and a woman. I do not know wether if this was intentional. But if u are the same person who was banned recently, atleast be a man and admit to who u are. I noticed the similarities of what u post. U act like that ur just asking but there is a double standard that seems as though ur playing around with us qith these childish pranks. Stop keeping up this charade and if ur a real man hold a debate with us rather then playing these tricks, because they are growing old and showing how weak u are.

You are so paranoid
I'm not pretending to be anyone
I only have 1 character here
the reason I ask similar questions is there is many Arguments on the Internet that confuse me about Islam
and I'm here to ask the Muslims in the Forum about it
 

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2017, 01:09:16 PM »
It's ok, dear brothers.  No need to argue :).  Insha'Allah, all questions, confusions and concerns will be answered adequately and thoroughly here.  May Allah Almighty bless you.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline adilriaz123

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Re: Surah al Nisaa verse 15 16
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2017, 04:33:33 AM »
Asalam ul laykum brother Monys, as you can see from above, i have apologized for the misunderstanding. i just never seen you before, due to recent events on this forum and also the change in translation, i made a false assumption. so i apologized for it brother. =)