Arabia or Babylon in Jeremiah 51:33 ?

[Idris]

Salam aleikum,

I have found in answering-christianity.com the following Old Testament quotation: "Arabia has not yet met its threshold, and "and the time of her harvest shall come." (Jeremiah 51:33)

Where did the word Arabia appear in this verse ? It is about Babylon here not Arabia. I think this is an error to mention Arabia in Jeremiah 51:33, but maybe I'am wrong.

[QuranSearchCom]

Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Idris,

All other English translations, and also the Arabic one, say "THE DAUGHTER OF BABYLON".  We know that Arabia is called the Daughter of Babylon.  In fact, the Bible speaks about the fall of three Babylons:

1-  Babylon (the Assyrian one).  It fell to Islam.

2-  The VIRGIN DAUGHTER of Babylon (pagan Arabia).  It was a virgin because it had no official Divine Religion like Islam yet.  It fell to Islam.  This is the time when it began to meet its threshold.

3-  Future Babylon, THE GREAT harlot (prostitute).  It will fall to Islam after the return of Prophet Isa (Jesus), peace be upon him.


I have thoroughly demonstrated them from the Bible with ample passages with my debate with Anthony Rogers.  You can visit the MS-DOC file at:

www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/Debates%20Database%20Doc%20File.doc

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

thank you for the explanation. Interesting, I didn't know about this, since I thought that Babylon is referring maybe to the territories of modern Iraq. The camel driver from Isaiah 21:7 is almost certainly Prophet Mohammed (pbuh), but which Babylon Isaiah has in mind two verses later (i.e. Isaiah 21:9)? Is he talking about Iraq or pagan Arabia ?

As to the Future Babylon, which is called "THE GREAT harlot", some Christians says that it refers to the Roman Catholic Church, precisely the Vatican, and it seems they have a pretty good argument.

[QuranSearchCom]

[Mohamed Saif]

Assalamun alaikum dear brothers

Also according to the preterist version harlot Babylon refers to the city of Rome. Since the Roman Empire conquered almost the entire world the city of Rome was actually a world power.  That is why harlot Babylon sits on the beast (Roman Empire) in the book of revelations. And also brother Idris said that the book of Isaiah and the book of revelation contained a lot of similarities. Even in revelation it says that "Babylon has Fallen". Since both books contain many similarities I think they refer to the same Babylon.

Thank you

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

great pieces of info brother Osama! Jazaka Allah khayran akhi. So, we can conclude that Mecca and the desert of Arabia are hidden under many names: Paran, Zion, Baka, ...Babylon ?? Again, just for clarifying: the "Daughter of Babylon" is Mecca or Arabia ?

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

I believe that a city or region like Mecca or Paran or Baka is mentioned, it does include all of Arabia, and vise versa.  When "Daughter of Babylon" is mentioned, it includes all of Arabia.  The people, whether pagan Ishmaelites or future Muslim ones, are the real target.  Not the lands necessarily.  Again, the Bible spoke about they have not yet met their threshold, and the time of their harvest shall come.


As to Daughter of Babylon, I believe it means Arabia, and not just Mecca.  And of course, Arabia does include Mecca.  Just like Babylon means ancient Assyria, and the future Babylon means the entire anti-Christ dajjal system.  So Babylon had always referred to vast lands, and not just cities.

Mecca was also precisely referenced in the old Scriptures.  The House of GOD Almighty will be established in the desert.  And people will come to it from all over the world.  That is a clear reference to Mecca.  For more details, please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/walid_shoebat_islam_satan_rebuttal.htm#isaiah_34_35
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Idris]

As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

Thank you for such a kind of info akhi. It will help me now to get a much clearer view of some Old Testament passages. Excellent!
Thank you once again, and jazaka Allahu khayran, and also for brother Mohamed Saif for some additional hints on this topic.

Take care, and salam
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)

[Mohamed Saif]

Assalamun Alaikum dear brother Idris

Same to you.  May Allah bless you and your family. If you find anything new make sure you post it brother. I really love your work.

Thank you

[Idris]

Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

thank you dear brother Mohamed Saif. No problem, I will post insha'Allah some new findings, perhaps together we would solve some difficult passages.

Take care, and salam
Ahmed

[QuranSearchCom]

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers Idris and Mohamed,

Jazakum Allah Khayr, dear brothers.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[Ali Aljbawi]

[QuranSearchCom]

I don't agree very much with your proofs, that babylon here is meant arabia

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh,

I never said Arabia is Babylon, brother.  The Torah and NT speak of three Babylons:

1-  Actual literal Babylon (Iraq and other territories in Syria, Jordan and Iran).

2-  Virgin Daughter of Babylon, Arabia.

3-  Future Babylon of pornography.  Asherah in the OT, Jezebel in the NT:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/goddess_asherah_pornography_return_of_messiah_damascus.htm

All Bible theologians agree that the Daughter of Babylon is Arabia, and it is virgin because it had no Scriptures nor Prophets.

[Ali Aljbawi]

I don't agree very much with your proofs, that babylon here is meant arabia

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh,

I never said Arabia is Babylon, brother.  The Torah and NT speak of three Babylons:

1-  Actual literal Babylon (Iraq and other territories in Syria, Jordan and Iran).

2-  Virgin Daughter of Babylon, Arabia.

3-  Future Babylon of pornography.  Asherah in the OT, Jezebel in the NT:

https://www.answering-christianity.com/goddess_asherah_pornography_return_of_messiah_damascus.htm

All Bible theologians agree that the Daughter of Babylon is Arabia, and it is virgin because it had no Scriptures nor Prophets.

Aslam alaikum Brother Osama,

I have sent you a message, did you recive it?, because I don't see it in my send messages