Author Topic: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"  (Read 4112 times)

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Offline Idris

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As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

dear sisters and brother, I was told that the arabic din Kamil - which means in Arabic "Perfect Religion" or "Complete Religion" - is a very broad and general notion, and thus one have to be careful with Arab rhetoric.

First, did Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) ever called or suggested in some reliable hadith that Islam is a perfect religion (din kamil) ?
Second, if he did, the how it was understood this Arabic expression and which would be the best translation ?

Dear brother Osama, could you chekc for me in Lisan al-Arab whether this Arabic expression din kamil was used to describe Islam.

Jazaka Allahu kayran akhi Osama

Ahmed

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 03:09:51 AM »
Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

Deen Kamil means Complete Religion.  It can also mean Perfect Religion.  Deen = Religion, and Kamil means Complete or Perfect.  Kamal means perfection.  Islam being a Complete Religion is derived straight from the Glorious Quran:

[005:003]  Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected اكملت (ak-malto) your religion دينكم (deena-kum) for you, completed اتممت (at-mam-to) My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.



Also, completed اتممت (at-mamto) is derived from TAM, which means to fulfill or to perfect:

[006:115] And the word of thy Lord has been fulfilled تمت (tam-mat) in truth and justice. None can change HIS words, and HE is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.

[007:137] We caused the nation that was considered weak and oppressed to inherit the eastern and the western parts of the land We had blessed. Then, the good word of your Lord (concerning prosperity) for the children of Israel was fulfilled تمت . We totally demolished everything the pharaoh and his nation had contrived, every structure they ever raised!

[011:119]  Except those on whom thy Lord hath bestowed His Mercy: and for this did He create them: and the Word of thy Lord shall be fulfilled تمت : "I will fill Hell with jinns and men all together."



Also, the following Google Translate links should help, insha'Allah:

https://www.google.com/#q=%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84+in+english&*
https://www.google.com/#q=%D8%AF%D9%8A%D9%86+in+english&*


In this last link, the immediate translation is "debt".  But "religion" is also in the list of translations.  That's because DYN in Arabic can be read as:

DEEN
DAYN


Same letters but different vowels.  The vowels determine which word it is.  This is similar to the English word MINUTE.  It can refer to time (mi-nit), and it can also refer to something small (mine-yoot).  Same spelling but two different words.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah, dear brother.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 09:22:38 AM »
Wa aleikum as-Salam wa Rahmatullahi wa Baraketuh,

may Allah bless you akhi Osama, however I really need an affirmation from Lisan al-Arab if the term "kamil" could be also translated as "perfect". I need to be sure when I will answer to my debater. I know that you are familiar with Lisan al-Arab and you have all volumes of this disctionary, masha'Allah! I hope you will help me to confirm it from this source.

Jazaka Allahu khayran for all your efforts akhi!

Ahmed

Offline Sama

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 12:13:12 PM »
كمل (لسان العرب)
الكَمَال: التَّمام، وقيل: التَّمام الذي تَجَزَّأَ منه أَجزاؤه، وفيه ثلاث لغات: كَمَل الشيء يَكْمُل، وكَمِل وكَمُل كَمالاً وكُمولاً، قال الجوهري: والكسر أَرْدَؤُها.
وشيء كَمِيل: كامِل، جاؤوا به على كَمُل؛ وأَنشد سيبويه: على أَنه بعدما قد مضى ثلاثون للهَجْر حَوْلاً كَميلا وتَكَمَّل: ككَمَل.
وتَكامَل الشيء وأَكْمَلْته أَنا وأَكْمَلْت الشيء أَي أَجْمَلْتُه وأَتممته، وأَكْمَلَه هو واستكْمَله وكَمَّله: أَتَمَّه وجَمَلَه؛ قال الشاعر: فقُرَى العِراق مَقِيلُ يومٍ واحدٍ، والبَصْرَتان وواسِط تَكْمِيلُه قال ابن سيده: قال أَبو عبيد أَراد كان ذلك كله يُسار في يوم واحد، وأَراد بالبصرتين البصرة والكوفة.
وأَعطاه المال كَمَلاً أَي كامِلاً؛ هكذا يتكلم به في الجميع والوُحْدَان سواء، ولا يثنى ولا يجمع؛ قال: وليس بمصدر ولا نعت إِنما هو كقولك أَعطيته كُلَّه، ويقال: لك نصفُه وبعضه وكَماله، وقال الله تعالى: اليومَ أَكْمَلْت لكم دينَكم وأَتْمَمْتُ عليكم نِعْمتي (الآية)؛ ومعناه، والله أَعلم: الآن أَكْملتُ لكم الدِّين بأَنْ كفيتكم خوف عدوِّكم وأَظْهَرْتَكم عليهم، كما تقول الآن كَمُل لنا المُلْك وكَمُل لنا ما نريد بأَن كُفينا من كنَّا نخافه، وقيل: أَكمَلتُ لكم دِينكم أَي أَكْملتُ لكم فوق ما تحتاجون إِليه في دِينِكم، وذلك جائر حسَن، فأَما أَن يكون دين الله عز وجل في وقت من الأَوقات غير كامِل فلا

http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%A3%D9%83%D9%85%D9%84

Brother Osama can comment :)

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 05:51:51 PM »
As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

thank you very much Sama, jazaka Allahu khayran for your help.

Take care, and salam
Ahmed

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 10:15:30 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers Sama and Idris,

Jazaka Allah Khayr for the translation, akhi Sama.  I appreciate your help, akhi.

Brother Idris, if you want me to translate what brother Sama posted, then please let me know.  One point I forgot to add to my previous post is the following:

In Islam we say: "AL-KAMALU LILLAH".  The Perfection only belongs to Allah.  In other words, only Allah Almighty is Perfect.  He is THE PERFECT.  Kamal is derived from Kamil.

Also in Arabic, we say something IKTAMAL, which means it got completed.  So Kamil is both Complete and Perfect, especially when we use the word for Allah Almighty and/or His Holy Word, the Holy Quran.  kAMIL here means both.

I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2017, 08:06:32 AM »
Wa aleikum as-Salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

Yes, dear brother Osama, if you can please translate to me this arabic text about "kamal" from Lisan al-Arab. I will be deeply greatful for such a kind of help. May God Almighty bless you and your family. Amin ya Rab!

Also, brother Sama jazaka Allahu khayran for reminding me about such a nice website in which I can search for Arabic words inside the best Arabic disctionaries ! Super!

Ahmed

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2017, 11:22:17 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

Here is the requested translation:

كمل (لسان العرب)
الكَمَال: التَّمام، وقيل: التَّمام الذي تَجَزَّأَ منه أَجزاؤه، وفيه ثلاث لغات: كَمَل الشيء يَكْمُل، وكَمِل وكَمُل كَمالاً وكُمولاً، قال الجوهري: والكسر أَرْدَؤُها.

The KAMAL الكَمَال is THE TAMAM التَّمام (this is also exactly what I demonstrated in the previous reply from the Glorious Quran).  And it was said THE TAMAM is what is partitioned into parts.  And there are three derivatives to the word KAMAL:  Something KAMALA, something YAKMUL, and something KAMILA.   


وشيء كَمِيل: كامِل، جاؤوا به على كَمُل؛ وأَنشد سيبويه: على أَنه بعدما قد مضى ثلاثون للهَجْر حَوْلاً كَميلا وتَكَمَّل: ككَمَل.

And when something is KAMEEL, it is KAMIL (complete).  For example, they brought it full.  And Saybowaih said in his poem: It has become complete after 30 years of desertion.

وتَكامَل الشيء وأَكْمَلْته أَنا وأَكْمَلْت الشيء أَي أَجْمَلْتُه وأَتممته، وأَكْمَلَه هو واستكْمَله وكَمَّله: أَتَمَّه وجَمَلَه؛ قال الشاعر: فقُرَى العِراق مَقِيلُ يومٍ واحدٍ، والبَصْرَتان وواسِط تَكْمِيلُه قال ابن سيده: قال أَبو عبيد أَراد كان  وأَعطاه المال كَمَلاً أَي كامِلاً؛ هكذا يتكلم به في الجميع والوُحْدَان سواء، ولا يثنى ولا يجمع؛ قال: وليس بمصدر ولا نعت إِنما هو كقولك أَعطيته كُلَّه، ويقال: لك نصفُه وبعضه وكَماله، ذلك كله يُسار في يوم واحد، وأَراد بالبصرتين البصرة والكوفة.

And TAKAMALA something is the same as something I AKMALTUH, which means I made it all combined together أَجْمَلْتُه  and ATMAMTUH أَتممته (i.e., made it TAMAM: COMPLETE).  Same words also ISTAKMALTUH, and KAMMALAH, which mean he made it complete.  And the poet said about the two BASRAS, the Basra and Kufah in Iraq.... (he used them as one Basra, because in his poem they complimented each other)


وقال الله تعالى: اليومَ أَكْمَلْت لكم دينَكم وأَتْمَمْتُ عليكم نِعْمتي (الآية)

And Allah Almighty Said: "This Day I have perfected your Religion...." (See my previous detailed post).


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.  Please let me know if you need more clarification or details akhi.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #8 on: March 11, 2017, 11:26:26 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

Here is the requested translation:

كمل (لسان العرب)
الكَمَال: التَّمام، وقيل: التَّمام الذي تَجَزَّأَ منه أَجزاؤه، وفيه ثلاث لغات: كَمَل الشيء يَكْمُل، وكَمِل وكَمُل كَمالاً وكُمولاً، قال الجوهري: والكسر أَرْدَؤُها.

The KAMAL الكَمَال is THE TAMAM التَّمام (this is also exactly what I demonstrated in the previous reply from the Glorious Quran).  And it was said THE TAMAM is what is partitioned into parts.  And there are three derivatives to the word KAMAL:  Something KAMALA, something YAKMUL, and something KAMILA.   


وشيء كَمِيل: كامِل، جاؤوا به على كَمُل؛ وأَنشد سيبويه: على أَنه بعدما قد مضى ثلاثون للهَجْر حَوْلاً كَميلا وتَكَمَّل: ككَمَل.

And when something is KAMEEL, it is KAMIL (complete).  For example, they brought it full.  And Saybowaih said in his poem: It has become complete after 30 years of desertion.

وتَكامَل الشيء وأَكْمَلْته أَنا وأَكْمَلْت الشيء أَي أَجْمَلْتُه وأَتممته، وأَكْمَلَه هو واستكْمَله وكَمَّله: أَتَمَّه وجَمَلَه؛ قال الشاعر: فقُرَى العِراق مَقِيلُ يومٍ واحدٍ، والبَصْرَتان وواسِط تَكْمِيلُه قال ابن سيده: قال أَبو عبيد أَراد كان  وأَعطاه المال كَمَلاً أَي كامِلاً؛ هكذا يتكلم به في الجميع والوُحْدَان سواء، ولا يثنى ولا يجمع؛ قال: وليس بمصدر ولا نعت إِنما هو كقولك أَعطيته كُلَّه، ويقال: لك نصفُه وبعضه وكَماله، ذلك كله يُسار في يوم واحد، وأَراد بالبصرتين البصرة والكوفة.

And TAKAMALA something is the same as something I AKMALTUH, which means I made it all combined together أَجْمَلْتُه  and ATMAMTUH أَتممته (i.e., made it TAMAM: COMPLETE).  Same words also ISTAKMALTUH, and KAMMALAH, which mean he made it complete.  And the poet said about the two BASRAS, the Basra and Kufah in Iraq.... (he used them as one Basra, because in his poem they complimented each other)


وقال الله تعالى: اليومَ أَكْمَلْت لكم دينَكم وأَتْمَمْتُ عليكم نِعْمتي (الآية)

And Allah Almighty Said: "This Day I have perfected your Religion...." (See my previous detailed post).


I hope this helps, insha'Allah.  Please let me know if you need more clarification or details akhi.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Wa aleikum as-salam wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

may Allah bless you for helping me to understand this Arabic text! Jazaka Allah khayran! I will use it in my work, and also I will use it as an explanation to my debater. Paradoxically she is a Muslim, and she think that there is a problem in translating this expression "din Kamil" as "perfect religion". She says that only Allah is Perfect, and by that she suggest that Islam and Koran is not perfect.

Akhi, could you tell for me in which volume and page can be found this Arabic text from Lisan al-Arab ? I would need it to my reference notes. Below, the link to Lisan al-Arab:

https://archive.org/details/lisanalarab07ibnmuoft

Thank you brother!
Ahmed

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2017, 12:50:26 PM »
Salam aleikum,

dear brother Osama,

my debater says that the form كامل  (kaamil) is a present participle, but I thought that it is an adjective ? She says that kamil is the adjective, not kaamil. Could you confirm to me the correct grammatical forms of these espressions ?

Jazaka Allahu khayran
Ahmed

Offline AMuslimDude213

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2017, 01:58:46 PM »
Omg,what kind of a muslim even is your debater,present to her this verse
"This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful."(5:3)

And Quran is t guidance.
"This is the Scripture in which there is no doubt, containing guidance for those who are mindful of God, who believe in the unseen…” (Quran, 2:2-3).

Even the hadith says Islam is perfect.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2017, 04:31:53 PM »
كمل (لسان العرب)
الكَمَال: التَّمام، وقيل: التَّمام الذي تَجَزَّأَ منه أَجزاؤه، وفيه ثلاث لغات: كَمَل الشيء يَكْمُل، وكَمِل وكَمُل كَمالاً وكُمولاً، قال الجوهري: والكسر أَرْدَؤُها.
وشيء كَمِيل: كامِل، جاؤوا به على كَمُل؛ وأَنشد سيبويه: على أَنه بعدما قد مضى ثلاثون للهَجْر حَوْلاً كَميلا وتَكَمَّل: ككَمَل.
وتَكامَل الشيء وأَكْمَلْته أَنا وأَكْمَلْت الشيء أَي أَجْمَلْتُه وأَتممته، وأَكْمَلَه هو واستكْمَله وكَمَّله: أَتَمَّه وجَمَلَه؛ قال الشاعر: فقُرَى العِراق مَقِيلُ يومٍ واحدٍ، والبَصْرَتان وواسِط تَكْمِيلُه قال ابن سيده: قال أَبو عبيد أَراد كان ذلك كله يُسار في يوم واحد، وأَراد بالبصرتين البصرة والكوفة.
وأَعطاه المال كَمَلاً أَي كامِلاً؛ هكذا يتكلم به في الجميع والوُحْدَان سواء، ولا يثنى ولا يجمع؛ قال: وليس بمصدر ولا نعت إِنما هو كقولك أَعطيته كُلَّه، ويقال: لك نصفُه وبعضه وكَماله، وقال الله تعالى: اليومَ أَكْمَلْت لكم دينَكم وأَتْمَمْتُ عليكم نِعْمتي (الآية)؛ ومعناه، والله أَعلم: الآن أَكْملتُ لكم الدِّين بأَنْ كفيتكم خوف عدوِّكم وأَظْهَرْتَكم عليهم، كما تقول الآن كَمُل لنا المُلْك وكَمُل لنا ما نريد بأَن كُفينا من كنَّا نخافه، وقيل: أَكمَلتُ لكم دِينكم أَي أَكْملتُ لكم فوق ما تحتاجون إِليه في دِينِكم، وذلك جائر حسَن، فأَما أَن يكون دين الله عز وجل في وقت من الأَوقات غير كامِل فلا

http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%A3%D9%83%D9%85%D9%84

Brother Osama can comment :)

As'salamu Alaikum dear brothers,

Brother Idris, brother Sama's quotation above is found in my volumes as follows:

Lisan Al-Arab dictionary, Volume 6, Page 669

Lisan Al-Arab dictionary, by Jamaludeen Abi Alfadl Muhammad bin Makram ibn Manthoor Al-Ansaari Al-Afreeqi Al-Masri, checked by Aamir Ahmed Haydar, and rechecked by AbulMin'em Khaleel Ibrahim, Dar Al-Kotob Al-ilmiyah, Beirut - Lebanon.

The following is the image of the page:



I hope this helps, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2017, 04:42:46 PM »
Salam aleikum,

dear brother Osama,

my debater says that the form كامل  (kaamil) is a present participle, but I thought that it is an adjective ? She says that kamil is the adjective, not kaamil. Could you confirm to me the correct grammatical forms of these espressions ?

Jazaka Allahu khayran
Ahmed


Wa Alaikum As'salam dear brother Idris,

She is not a Muslim.  She is a desperate Arab infidel that is speaking from her rear end.  I wouldn't dignify her any further by conversing with her.  She is not serious.  Resorting to cheap philosophy and monkeying around.  This reminds me of the salafi that use philosophy to respond to the Glorious Quran's Scientific and Numerical Miracles:

www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#numerical_miracles
http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac11.htm#links



A salafi using philosophy? Their books declare philosophy as works of infidels and philosophy is a blasphemy.

Allah Almighty AKMALA and ATAMMA the Glorious Quran for us by completing It's Divine Laws that would give us the Salavation and the Moral Code.  And Allah Almighty also finished the Glorious Quran's Revelation for us.  The Noble Words mean all of this.  And yes, Allah Almighty's Divine Words are also perfect.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2017, 06:49:08 PM »
As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh dear brother Osama,

thank you very much akhi for the reference note, I really needed that, even if it would be for my work only. I hope I can count on your help in any time when I will need an explanation on a particular term from Lisan al-Arab. This source is very important while doing my research.

Anyway, I would need to know akhi the correct grammatical form of the word كامل (kaamil) and كميل (kamil) and كمل (kamal)
In the Quran the word composed with kaf-mim-lam appears once as the active participle كَامِلَيْن (kaamilayn), and twice also as the active participle كَامِلَة (kaamilat).

My question: is the form كامل (kaamil) the same as كَامِلَيْن (kaamilayn) and كَامِلَة (kaamilat) ? Since, I was told that كامل (kaamil) is the active participle, and كميل (kamil) is an adjective.

Could you clarify it for me brother ?

Jazaka allahu khayran dear brother Osama, may Allah bless you!
Ahmed

Offline Idris

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Re: A hadith or verse needed with explanation on the term "din Kamil"
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 06:00:28 PM »
As-Salam aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

dear brother Osama, please don't forget to check for me what is the grammatical form of كامل (kaamil) and كميل (kamil) and كمل (kamal).
I really need it akhi! By the way, where I can see the morphological analysis of Arabic words ? Is there some electronic grammatical analyzer of Arabic words ?? I've found this excellent website: http://corpus.quran.com/documentation/grammar.jsp
...but it analyzes only Arabic words that are included in the Quran.

Ahmed