Muhammad was not from Mecca, but Petra.

[New World Order Cleanse]

[QuranSearchCom]

[AMuslimDude213]

[New World Order Cleanse]

You are assuming your historical foundations from an external literature. The hadith was invented by an oligarchy consisting of very few (ingeneous might I add) men well-versed in the art of realpolitik; God did not create the Quran for an invented library of hearsay with its own complex, insane science of authentication to replace it.

May I please request that you do not comment until you have watched the documentary, or read the book, please.

The word Mecca appears once inside the Quran and when it does, does not reference today's Mecca, and ironically the word Salaah does not appear anywhere near the one instance of this root.

Your religion is patchy, incorrect and highly unaesthetic. I cannot cite websites because you'll just ban me, so I'll provide a Youtube video which will provide a window into the main body of work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inJ1mCIsz5A&t=53s.

I do not heil from any sect, I simply seek to spread the Quranic teachings, see my previous thread.

[AMuslimDude213]

Oh and just to add up,theres more proof than just this Muhammad SAW was in Mecca,there were narrators and letter-writers of that time who spoke of Muhammad SAW in Mecca. And even people like Ibn Abbas and A'isha R.A after Muhammad SAW who seen him.

And this too destroys your whole points.

[New World Order Cleanse]

Peace.

Mecca is not the same place as Macoraba.

No, there are no statues at Mecca depicting the Nabatean Gods. There just isn't. Because it's not there. It's just not. Just like the sky isn't green.

I haven't got the time for this; watch the documentary, or see the link I posted above to Youtube. Or read the book if you have the attention span.

[AMuslimDude213]

Again you'd have to explain the Letters,etc and not be ignorant of History,and also explain Ibn Kalbis book of Idols which is a Pre-Islamic book referencing nabatean Gods and I provided my proof and you only provided a video only cherrypicking from the Quran.

[New World Order Cleanse]

Again you'd have to explain the Letters,etc and not be ignorant of History,and also explain Ibn Kalbis book of Idols which is a Pre-Islamic book referencing nabatean Gods and I provided my proof and you only provided a video only cherrypicking from the Quran.

Again you'd have to explain the Letters,etc and not be ignorant of History,and also explain John the Baptist's book at 1:1 which is a reliable Biblical account refercning Jesus as God and I provided my proof and you only provided a video only cherrypicking from the Bible.

 

[AMuslimDude213]

Again,the bible is something different,Ibn Kalbis book is something different,you're changing topics which proves you cannot defend your case.

And you're definetly an atheist,not a muslim.

[QuranSearchCom]

You are assuming your historical foundations from an external literature.

Above, I updated my post and gave links that contain ancient writings that prove Mecca was Baca.  The links again are:

http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2254.msg10005.html#msg10005
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2254.msg10009.html#msg10009


As to proofs for the "external literature", we have the graves of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and many of his companions in locations in Saudi Arabia and in northern Arabia where they died after opening the lands from the Persians and the Romans.  The literature that proves the location where Islam started, and what was its Prophet's name, and how Islam systematically spread throughout Arabia and beyond is quite solid.  You have a disease called "everything outside the Quran is false".

We have hard evidence from graves, to physical locations of homes, battles, tribes, etc... and ample literature that thoroughly prove Islam began in Mecca and took off from Mecca.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

[New World Order Cleanse]

[Albarra]

Peace.

Mecca is not the same place as Macoraba.

No, there are no statues at Mecca depicting the Nabatean Gods. There just isn't. Because it's not there. It's just not. Just like the sky isn't green.

That's completely dumb. How did you know it's not there. You were just guessing.

Statues? You mean 300 idols around Ka'aba?

Also, "the sky isn't green" is completely different than Mecca.

[QuranSearchCom]

It's weak evidence and ignores the big picture: spurious, extremely vague literatures.

Vague literatures?  I don't see millions flocking to pilgrimage to Petra every year.  I see them flocking to Mecca.  Your theory would be valid if literally all of the Arabs in the entire Middle East were permanently drunk or stoned.  To have millions of Muslims flock to Mecca every single year testifies to the Truthfulness of Islam's literature about Islam indeed began from Mecca, and Its Prophet was Muhammad, peace be upon him. 



How was the fabrication possible?

How could Hajj (pilgrimage) be fabricated when the Holy City of Mecca is the VERY CORE of it?  If Hajj began at Petra, as you claim, then please tell us what year did the fabrication happen, and how did the thousands and thousands of Muslims back then just suddenly and/or abruptly change from Petra to Mecca? Like I said, they must all be permanently intoxicated in order for your theory to work.  Otherwise, people wouldn't just change from Petra to Mecca because some doofus ordered them to change.

If you do not directly answer this, I will ban you!  I am getting tired of your BS.

Osama

[New World Order Cleanse]

It's weak evidence and ignores the big picture: spurious, extremely vague literatures.

Vague literatures?  I don't see millions flocking to pilgrimage to Petra every year.  I see them flocking to Mecca.  Your theory would be valid if literally all of the Arabs in the entire Middle East were permanently drunk or stoned.  To have millions of Muslims flock to Mecca every single year testifies to the Truthfulness of Islam's literature about Islam indeed began from Mecca, and Its Prophet was Muhammad, peace be upon him. 



How is the fabrication possible?

How could Hajj (pilgrimage) be fabricated when the Holy City of Mecca is the VERY CORE of it?

Do you have anything else to add?  I am getting tired of your BS.

Osama

I'm not here to convince everyone, it's my Quranic duty to preach against real and potential idols, like your religion. I want to please my maker.

I'm going to say it another time: your city is not historical, you've activated full-on Trinitarian Christian mode: fingers in both ears.

How could they pull it off? Let me ask you, how did they pull off 9/11? You underestimate how much power royalty has.

For your exact answer, it's in the documentary and involves the classic historical formula of: victors win war, victors rewrite history. Hence the burning down of libraries and mass censorship that ensued. But I guess you're not gonna watch it, that's ok, I don't think anyone takes you seriously anyway.

You have this flowery version of your religion's history which is false - the true history is ugly.

[Albarra]

Give me a verse that Muhammad (phub) was born in Petra.


Again, your stupid evidence did not prove me that Makkah was not historical. Petra sounds like a unpopular area in southern Jordan. No top Islamic scholars or Salafi said about Muhammad (phub) and Petra.


Also, we have old hadith like Muwatta Malik mentioned about Mecca many times. That was around 700 CE, but oral hadith were memorized since Islam was born.

You just looked the hadiths that were written in 900 CE, but what about oral hadiths? 



UPDATE FROM OSAMA ABDALLAH:

"You just looked the hadiths that were written in 900 CE, but what about oral hadiths?"


Dear brother Albarra, I am afraid that your last statement makes it sound like he has HADITHS (sayings of the Prophet) that were written around year 900 AD/CE that actually say Petra was indeed Mecca.  I just want to make it clear to the reader that such Hadiths do not exist.  Your statement was referring to the alleged maps that he was talking about.  And of course his statement is very stupid, because Mecca did ACTUALLY EXIST in 900 and 800 and 700 and 600 and thousands of years before!  But at the very least, we know that it existed before 900 AD, whether there was a map drawn for it or not.  People lived there and it was always called MECCA, and Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was born there, and his entire sub-tribe Hashim and entire tribe Quraysh were the inhabitants of Mecca.  And the House of GOD Almighty that was built by Abraham and Ishmael, peace be upon them, was already there.

Just wanted to clarify that.  Jazaka Allah Khayr.