Author Topic: Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done  (Read 1707 times)

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Offline Isa27James

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Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done
« on: November 15, 2017, 12:55:30 PM »
Assalam alykam
When I first became a Muslim
In 2011 I was giving dawah and debating Christians
I have not done so since 2015 but recently I have returned debating a Christian missionary AND I'm abit rusty he has written a long article which needs to be refuted point by point I need someone highly qualified to do so May Allah bless you here is the article

https://smartpeoplesmartliving.blogspot.com.au/2017/09/the-quran-proclaims-christ-crucified.html?m=1

Offline submit

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Re: Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »
Resurrection. Basically...

He began with a concept about resurrection which has existed before especially in Hellenistic belief, thus he tries to spread the idea that God finally conceded to the ways of Hellenistic worshipping and hence adopting the falsehood of the past and blessed it and permits it so that mankind will just worship a new version of God in human form.

Also Greek Christians, the ones that spread the Pauline version about the life Messiah in 26/27 Greek books centres around the resurrection theme. While Nasoreans that adhere to companions of Jesus Messiah did not believe in resurrection of the Messiah.

All of the Quran verses that he quoted, simply talks about death and resurrection for judgement from  God. No verse about Jesus having death on earth followed by resurrection on earth; as a decree to mankind that the Hellenistic style of a human-God dying and resurrecting shall then be accepted as the new 'truth' despite being false in the past.

In Islam, if Jesus Messiah has experienced death then there will be no event of descending from sky to fight false Messiah to only experience a second death and later second resurrection. And so, if Jesus Messiah is still alive, then he will be descending down to fight false Messiah and later experience his death and resurrection.

Offline Isa27James

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Re: Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 01:49:32 PM »
Also brother this missionary

Says the following. ...
When you go into about someone handing you the Quran after you asking for “power”, it should be no surprised. The poetry in that book talks a lot about power struggles in a religious context, since religion is part of one's identity.

Semitic tribes (Hebrews, Arabs, etc.) typically interprted times of prosperity and peace and God's blessings, and times of conflict, war, drought and calamity as God's punishments. So for a tribal community to exert power in real terms (fighting) in order to establish order (again through religious narratives) is not surprising, and thus why I think that book was brought to you since that is exactly what you confess to demanding.

God grants us the desires of our hearts, my friend.

I agree with half of Muhammad's poetry (the Quran), for it agrees completely with the testimonies and narratives in the Old and New Covenants...but the other half either literally contradicts such narratives, and also include local legends whose origins are found in heretic, or mysticisms, unfounded ideas and local folklore.

I write this not as offense, but simply clarifying what scholars and historians have pointed out according to centuries of research. These are scholarship, which is closer to fact and objective. Not words through a zealous defense of one's faith (how people typically share their beliefs).

Offline submit

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Re: Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2017, 01:39:03 AM »
Quote
Semitic tribes (Hebrews, Arabs, etc.) typically interprted times of prosperity and peace and God's blessings, and times of conflict, war, drought and calamity as God's punishments.

I am sure when calamities happen in Christians countries, they too proclaim it is punishment from their human-God and it is a sign of the day of his descending being near.

Punishment from God only happens onto nations that rejected their Messengers invitations to truth and still choose to disbelieve  after signs/miracles have been shown unto them.

Offline Dr Tazeen

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Re: Refuting a lengthy article but it must be done
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2017, 09:44:16 AM »
Critic:
Conclusive Conformity

When exploring the Quran and the topic of death as it relates to Christ, we find Christ foretelling a personal death, God decreeing Christ will die, Christ verifying His death having occurred and, the claim that Christ was raised and returned to God as having also occurred.

Let us look at the traditionally misinterpreted verse in wider context, including the verses I mentioned:
And so, for the breaking of their pledge, and their refusal to acknowledge God's messages, and their slaying of prophets against all right, and their boast, “Our hearts are already full of knowledge” - nay, but God has sealed their hearts in result of their denial of the truth, and they believe in but few things -; and for their refusal to acknowledge the truth, and the awesome calumny which they utter against Mary, and their boast, “Behold, we have slain the Christ Jesus, son of Mary, an apostle of God!” However, they did not slay Him, and neither did they crucify Him, but it only seemed to them so; and, verily, those who hold conflicting views thereon are indeed confused, having no knowledge thereof, and following mere conjecture. For, of a certainty, they did not slay Him: nay, God exalted Him unto Himself - and God is indeed Almighty, wise. Yet there is not one of the followers of earlier revelation who does not, at the moment of his death, grasp the truth about Jesus; and on the Day of Resurrection He shall bear witness to the truth against them.
- An Nisa (4) 155-159
Notice the phrase 'their slaying of prophets against all right', for it will be explored further below.

Since it mentions that God exalted Christ to Himself, we see the context is denying the claim of having killed yet another prophet.

In denying this boast, the resurrection is further expressed...since Christ is proclaimed to be alive from the Islamic perspective.

Response:
He is alive,not Shaheed or even killed at all.

And for their saying, "Surely we killed the Masih, Isa son of Maryam, (The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary) the Messenger of Allah." And in no way did they kill him, and in no way did they crucify him, but a resemblance of him was presented to them (i.e. the matter was made obscure for them through mutual resemblance). And surely the ones who differed about him are indeed in doubt about him. (Or: it, "that") In no way do they have any knowledge about him except the close following of surmise, and in no way did they kill him of a certainty.(4:157)


Critic:
Notice towards the end of this portion how it speaks about the moment prior to death and grasping the truth about Christ, with Christ bearing witness to that truth against them.

This is quite the resolve which echoes the testimony of the Gospel, yet only the non-Christians were likely to deny the news of a man having risen from the dead.

Yet this is the main point of Christianity: the resurrection of Christ.

Unfortunately, there is not much detail about what exactly the truth being mentioned is, aside from the truth of refusing God, killing prophets, acting arrogant, denying Christ continues to live, etc..

How does the Quran ask people to consider the dead?
And say not of those who are slain in God's cause, “They are dead”: nay, they are alive, but you perceive it not.
- Al Baqara (2) 154
Notice how 'you perceive it not' also repeats the sentiment 'but it only seemed to them so' we read previously.

Response:
Read the verse again in simpler words.

And do not say about those who are killed in the way of Allah, "They are dead." Rather, they are alive, but you perceive [it] not.(2:154)

BUT For Prophet Isa a.s. it is clearly mentioned in the Quran that He was NOT killed at all.


Critic:
Speaking further on how God is the agent who directs, or allows certain things to happen, consider this verse:
And yet, it was not you who slew the enemy, but it was God who slew them; and it was not thou who cast, when thou didst cast it, but it was God who cast it: and in order that He might test the believers by a goodly test of His Own or daining. Verily, God is all-hearing, all-knowing!
- Al Anfar (8) 17
That verse is yet another compliment in understanding how or why God would have Christ killed, and how men could not take full credit for any action.

Those who believed they killed Christ are unable to boast, since it was God who planned to allow Christ to be killed in order to raise Him up to life - the miracle of the ages.

Response:
You did not kill them,but Allah killed them....It is definitely for those who are killed,not for someone for whom it is clarified that He was not killed,nor crucified,or even martyred at all.

Critic:

The resurrection is the 'sign unto mankind' as mentioned elsewhere in the Quran when directly referring to Christ.

To mention the various interpretations denying Christ's physical death, read at least nine narratives arguing how the death supposedly did not occur.

You find the following of conjecture mentioned in an-Nisa 157 in those varied opinions.

To further confirm the Quran's manner of arguing a humanistic view of Christ, remember what was underlined earlier, 'their slaying of prophets against all right', when considering death, Christ, and how previous prophets also died:
The Christ, son of Mary, was but an Apostle: all Apostles had passed away before Him; and His mother was one who never deviated from the truth; and they both ate food. Behold how clear We make these messages unto them: and then behold how perverted are their minds!
- Al Maida (5) 75
This final verse from Muhammad's poetry resolves the death factor regarding prophets / apostles.

In arguing Christ's humanity so is Christ's existence in the flesh expressed as a finite reality.

Since God raised Christ, the infinite reality is realized...and it is this that gives mankind hope for life after death.

Response:
People killed some Prophets,and it is confirmed in Quran,but for Prophet Isa a.s. it is DENIED.