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Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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beating
« on: December 13, 2012, 06:54:39 PM »
Peace

We all have heard about the Quranic surah 4 :34, there are 2 interpretations: One is beating is allowed only if its done lightly (sometimes with a toothpick, ibn abbas), the other is that beating is forbidden all together. the scholars of the latter part have backed up there claim by saying that "beat" in the verse actually means "leave", they also use the hadiths such as:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.  (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: "I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.  (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138)"

It was narrated that Iyas bin 'Abdullah bin Abu Dhubab said:
"The Prophet said: 'Do not beat the female slaves of Allah.' Then 'Umar came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, the woman have become hostile/bold/harmful towards their husbands? So order the beating of them,' and they were beaten. Then many women went around to the family of Muhammad,. The next day he said: 'Last night seventy women came to the family of Muhammad, each woman complaining about her husband. You will not find that those are the best of you.' " (ibn Majah Chapter on Marriage)
However, in the hadiths they also use the same word for "beat" as the same word for "beat" in the quran (Idribuhunna); so by there logic, it could also mean leave.
My question is, how can we be sure that in means "leave" in the quranic verse but mean beat in the hadiths?
Thanks
peace

Offline Tanveer

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Re: beating
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 03:13:06 PM »
Well in the Quran the first two punishments (admonish and seperate bed) are more psychological punishments than physical so that is a way you could say that the world beat also means leave. Is it one of those words with two meanings? Also the hadiths seem to concern physical problems such as clothing them etc (apart from the do not revile her instruction) so thats one way you could interpret the hadith word as the physical beating.



This is just my understanding from reading the sources you have given. I could be wrong.

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: beating
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 09:30:27 AM »
Great observation bro
thank u
peace

Offline Tanveer

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Re: beating
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 10:17:44 AM »
:) No problem

Offline shabeer_hassan

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what r the situation Islam allow beating:
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2013, 01:08:05 AM »
Man and woman are the two halves of the institution of the
family. However the control of this institution is vested in the hands of
man. It is his responsibility to see to it that the institution is not laid to
waste. To this end, the Qur'an has exhorted man to exert to the utmost
of his ability. Observe the verse that explains the course of action that
is to be taken for this purpose: “Men are the protectors and maintainers
of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the
other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore
the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s)
absence what God would have them guard. As to those women
on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first),
(next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); But if
they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance):
For God is Most High, Great (above you all).”(4:34)
Breach of discipline has been mentioned in the verse only after
it has explained the nature of the good woman. In the vision that emanates
from the Qur'an, the good woman is the one who “are devoutly
obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what God would have
them guard.” For the preservation of the family and the moral fabric
of society, such a nature is indispensable in women. Alongside this she
must also be one who guards, in secret, that which Allah would have
her guard.
How many men can tolerate life with a spouse who always
quarrels with her husband and is bent upon disobeying all that he asks
her to do? What will be the condition of the children who grow up in a
family atmosphere that is rife with mutual distrust and quarrels? The
Qur'an commands against such a state of affairs. There is much that
is due from a wife that is the right of the husband alone. It is not the
characteristic of a good woman that she gives them to him in his presence
and to others in his absence. She can, in no wise, give anything -
whether it be a gaze or a word uttered - that is due to the husband
alone to any other person. When that happens it becomes the reason
for the disruption of the family. Such disruptions can never be allowed
to happen. The Qur'anic prescriptions on the matter proceed in the
context of this all-important objective.
The Qur'anic recommendation is that all indiscipline that leads
to the disruption of the family must be taken out by the root itself. To
wait till such tendencies develop and blossom into full-fledged arrogance
is to actually create the very cause of disruption of the family
unit. At that advanced stage, there will not be much use in treating the
problem. For all such treatment will prove ineffective. The condition
of the children living in a family that, devoid of all peace and tranquility,
is heading towards utter chaos is, indeed, quite pitiable. It becomes
imperative, therefore, that, if such tendencies for indiscipline become
apparent at a distance, certain remedial action, albeit in a step by step
manner, needs to be taken to save the family from disruption. It is in
such circumstances that, in order to ward off indiscipline, the Qur’an
has permitted the man to take recourse to certain measures. These
measures are, however, not in the least meant to harm, avenge or
punish. On the contrary, they are meant to correct and unify through
the elimination of any tendency for exhibiting indiscipline.
The measures recommended by the Qur’an are as follows:
“As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and illconduct,
admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and
last) beat them (lightly); But if they return to obedience, seek not against
them means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, Great (above you
all).”
An ill-disciplined woman must first be advised. She should be
made aware of the consequences of her actions in this world and the
next. Sound advice will, indeed, suffice as an effective remedy if the
lapses have occurred owing to the natural dispositions of the woman.
There might be cases where stern instructions and advice do
not work. In many such cases the main reason behind the failure of
the husband’s loving pleas and emotional advices will turn out to be
arrogance, pure and simple. Arrogance is usually born out of beauty
consciousness, of being wealthy and of the high status of the woman’s
family. It is here that the second measure must come into play. She
must be separated from one’s bed. The bedroom is the place in which
attraction and temptation reign supreme. Therein lies the very power
base of the arrogant woman. That she is separated from there would
mean that her arrogance has been looked down upon with contempt.
It is, indeed, a stern measure against the sharpest weapon in the armoury
of the ill-disciplined woman. It goes without saying, however,
that the man who rises to employ this measure must of necessity be
equipped with the greatest self-control and determination. Those will,
indeed, be nights which will cause even the most arrogant of women
to think deeply. The knowledge that her mate is in no need of that
because of which she tended to become arrogant will definitely serve
to change the mind of the woman.
The Qur’an instructs that even in cases where separation from
one’s bed fails, the family must not be allowed to disintegrate. Cases
where, after verbal appeals prove ineffective, separation from one’s
bed also fails to deliver are rare indeed. When such situations do arise,
the level of indiscipline will have reached its highest extent. There can
then be no other solutions.
It is only as the next step that the Qur’an prescribes ‘beating’
as a possible solution. It is only after all other peaceful means have
been exhausted that the Qur’an recommends beating her as a preventive
measure. At other times, however, Prophet Muhammad has
been one person who spoke out vehemently against the beating of
women. “Those who beat their wives are devoid of all decency.” (Abu
Dawood, Ibn Majah): this was his own opinion. Indeed, he had asked
on one occasion: “Have you no sense of shame? To beat one’s own
wife even as one would his slave; and then to have intercourse with
her!” (Muslim, Ahmed). It is certain, therefore, that the Qur’an, which
was revealed through the Prophet who said that “the best of you is the
one who is kindest to his wife.” (Tirmidhi) would never, without sufficient
reason, command that the woman be beaten. It is only as a
means to check a bigger evil – as a last resort when all other options
fail - that the Qur’an has recommended beating. And that, too, the
Prophet had particularly exhorted that she must not be beaten in such
manner as to lessen her self-respect as is the case when she is struck
on the face or likewise. She is never meant to be harmed or humiliated.
On the contrary, it is only to correct her that the Qur’an recommended
beating as a last resort. Indeed, much like the father who
beats his child; like the teacher who beats the student, it is very much
a stern instruction emanating from the emotional depths of a caring
instructor. The highest objective of this instruction being the safe recovery
of the institution of the family from certain collapse.

Offline The Canadian Atheist

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Re: beating
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2013, 01:33:50 AM »
that's probably the only flaw of Islam

Offline There is only one God

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Re: beating
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2013, 01:46:38 AM »
Peace

We all have heard about the Quranic surah 4 :34, there are 2 interpretations: One is beating is allowed only if its done lightly (sometimes with a toothpick, ibn abbas), the other is that beating is forbidden all together. the scholars of the latter part have backed up there claim by saying that "beat" in the verse actually means "leave", they also use the hadiths such as:
Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.  (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: "I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.  (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138)"

It was narrated that Iyas bin 'Abdullah bin Abu Dhubab said:
"The Prophet said: 'Do not beat the female slaves of Allah.' Then 'Umar came to the Prophet and said: 'O Messenger of Allah, the woman have become hostile/bold/harmful towards their husbands? So order the beating of them,' and they were beaten. Then many women went around to the family of Muhammad,. The next day he said: 'Last night seventy women came to the family of Muhammad, each woman complaining about her husband. You will not find that those are the best of you.' " (ibn Majah Chapter on Marriage)
However, in the hadiths they also use the same word for "beat" as the same word for "beat" in the quran (Idribuhunna); so by there logic, it could also mean leave.
My question is, how can we be sure that in means "leave" in the quranic verse but mean beat in the hadiths?
Thanks
peace

This verse should clear it
Qur'an 4:34 - Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those from whom you fear arrogance - advise them; forsake them in bed; and strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

If she cheats on you, advise her against it. Then, forsake her in bed. The third time, strike her. Strike her once.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2013, 04:10:27 AM by There is only one God »

Offline zulfiqarchucknorris

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Re: beating
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2013, 11:46:02 AM »
but the word darabahunna could also be translated as "leave". in the hadith, the prophet said not to beat them in the AUTHENTIC hadith. we know it refers to leaving in the quran becuase its surrounding texts are emotional punishment (Not physical), while the hadith refers physical beating because it is surrounded by physical punishment.

Offline Sama

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Re: beating
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2019, 01:25:59 PM »
Quran vs Bible on beating women :

Bible allowing to beat and kill a disobedient child!

It's ironic how Christians bring up, Muslims men can beat their wives, when in reality they dismiss their very own bible which states, a father is allowed to beat and kill his disobedient child.

Do not withhold discipline from a child; although you strike him with a rod, he will not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell. (proverbs 23:13-14)

👉🏼Bible says kill women not only beat them😨😳

○Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night: (Deuteronomy 22:20-21)

○Kill Men, Women, and Children: (Ezekiel 9:5-7)

○Kill Old Men and Young Women: (Jeremiah 51:20-26)

👉🏼The Concept of Beating women in the Bible:

"Young people take pride in their strength, but the gray hairs of wisdom are even more beautiful. A severe beating can knock all of the evil out of you! (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 20:29-30)"

"Hatred stirs up trouble; love overlooks the wrongs that others do. If you have good sense, it will show when you speak. But if you are stupid, you will be beaten with a stick. If you have good sense, you will learn all you can, but foolish talk will soon destroy you. (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 10:12-14)"

"A curse you don’t deserve will take wings and fly away like a sparrow or a swallow. Horses and donkeys must be beaten and bridled— and so must fools. Don’t make a fool of yourself by answering a fool. (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Proverbs 26:2-4)"

Beating here is open for anyone who is deemed to have evil in them, and/or is acting stupid and is a fool. The Bible doesn't object to the concepts of beating and disciplining of any individual who is in the wrong, and who is deemed to be deserving to it

▪︎▪︎▪︎
👉🏼Parable about Beating in Bible:

"Athletes work hard to win a crown that cannot last, but we do it for a crown that will last forever. I don’t run without a goal. And I don’t box by beating my fists in the air. I keep my body under control and make it my slave, so I won’t lose out after telling the good news to others.

▪︎ (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, 1 Corinthians 9:25-27)"

"If that happens, the master will come on a day and at a time when the servant least expects him. That servant will then be punished and thrown out with the servants who cannot be trusted. If servants are not ready or willing to do what their master wants them to do, they will be beaten hard. But servants who don’t know what their master wants them to do will not be beaten so hard for doing wrong. If God has been generous with you, he will expect you to serve him well. But if he has been more than generous, he will expect you to serve him even better.

▪︎ (From the Contemporary English Version (CEV) Bible, Luke 12:46-48)"

👉🏼Bible that put women under the authority and judgment of men and gives women punishments:

Man is clearly the ruler and the lord of the woman:Genesis 3:16 "To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.""

▪︎1 Corinthians 11:6-7

6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

7 A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."

👉🏼The man is allowed to cut the woman's hands if she defends her husband in the wrong way:

▪︎Deuteronomy 25:11-12 "And in case men struggle together (in a fight) with one another, and the wife of the one has come near to deliver her husband out of the striking one (to save her husband), and she has thrust out her hand and grabbed hold of his private (the other man's groin), she must then get both her hands cut off, and the eyes of the men must feel no sorrow."

The daughter would get burnt alive with fire:

▪︎Leviticus 21:9 "And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."

There are many many other verses that I could dig up and provide, but these should be sufficient enough to prove that men have full authority over women in the Bible.

As harsh as it may seem this is the reality of the Bible. The God of the Bible sanctions beating and killing one's own child, purely for disobeying him

▪︎▪︎▪︎▪︎▪︎
👉🏼Remember 100 women are killed annually today in developed countries like France and the US as official statestics reveal

▪︎See all the statistics here on our previous post

https://www.facebook.com/617199062042376/posts/821855494910064/

💐💐💐💐💐💐💐💐

👉🏼Now Islamically speaking

Now coming to the idea of Islam allowing wife beating. This is not true. Islam does not allow wife beating, rather in Islam a husband must love and look after his wife and children.

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and 👉🏼do not beat them, and do not revile them.
▪︎(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah: "I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, 👉🏼and do not beat her.
▪︎(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2138)"

👉🏼So act kindly towards women.

(Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"

Always remember:

👉🏼👉🏼👉🏼and do not beat them, and do not revile them.
▪︎(Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139

Aisha reported that Allah's Messenger, may Allah bless him, never beat anyone with his hand, neither a woman nor a servant, but only, in the case when he had been fighting in the cause of Allah …” (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 4296)

Tafsir Ibn Kathir, chapter 68:

Imam Ahmad recorded that `A’ishah said, “The Messenger of Allah never struck a servant of his with his hand, nor did he ever hit a woman. He never hit anything with his hand, except for when he was fighting Jihad in the cause of Allah

Allah Subhanahu wa taala describes Prophet Muhammed Peace be upon him in the Quran as the best of character.

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and 👉🏼do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Stop it "Do not Beat Your Wife" (Noble Quran & Prophet of Islam-Peace be upon him)

👉🏼"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231)"

🗣Now Correct Context and translation of Quran 4:34 based upon above verses and true meaning of Word "Adriboo (root: daraba): to separate, to part, or to strike"

💐👉🏼This religion that forbids to harm even a cat how could it say beat a woman

Beat (daraba ) in Arabic language also means to separate and ignore someone too

As in Lisan Al Arab dictionary

(4:34) [...]as for those women whose animosity or ill-will you have reason to fear, then leave them alone in bed, and then separate; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek a way against them.

Adriboo (root: daraba): to separate, to part, or to strike.

In the context of the above verse the most appropriate meaning for nushuz is 'marital discord' (ill-will, animosity etc), and for adriboo is 'to separate' or 'to part'.

"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) In the cause of Allah, Investigate carefully, And say not to anyone Who offers you a salutation: 'Thou art none of a Believer!' Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)"

So "daraba" literally means "beat", or "go abroad", or "give" but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example.

Important Note: Notice how Allah Almighty in Noble Chapter (Surah) 4 He used "daraba (4:34" and "darabtum (4:94)", which are both derived from the same root. He used both words in the same Chapter, which tells me that "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:34 means to desert or leave but not beat, since that's what its derived word meant in Noble Verse 4:94.

"...Do not retain them (i.e., your wives) to harm them...(The Noble Quran, 2:231

_________
By Askamuslim
https://www.facebook.com/askMuslim/posts/2655199364715222?__tn__=K-R

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: beating
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2019, 12:37:10 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Sama,

Jazaka Allah Khayr for this great post.  I will add it to the website in the next update, insha'Allah.  Welcome back, akhi :).

Take care,
O'Sama (the Irish LOL).