Author Topic: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?  (Read 12049 times)

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Offline Idris

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Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« on: December 30, 2015, 01:21:08 pm »
Update from Osama Abdallah:

Fearing that brother Idris' invaluable images throughout this thread would eventually get deleted from the websites that he linked them from, I went ahead and backed up this entire thread to the following link:

www.answering-christianity.com/topic_1996.htm  (all images)

Other related threads by brother Idris:

The names Ahmed and Mohammed in Jewish document that predates Prophet Mohammed ?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2304.msg10493.html#msg10493

Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,1996.msg8197.html#msg8197

Historical proof of Mecca existence B.C.
http://www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2254.msg9964.html#msg9964

May Allah Almighty bless brother Idris for his invaluable research and work.  Ameen.

End of Update.





Salam Aleykom,

I have observed some strange things in the so-called Great Isaiah Scroll. I'll put the first photo and just tell me what you can notice:


« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:39:26 am by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2015, 01:37:56 pm »

Ok, let me help you...(the same photo with color inversion)



« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:39:50 am by QuranSearchCom »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2015, 02:31:29 pm »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

Interesting find, akhi.  It seems that there might be a modification done to the scroll?  Is that what you're suggesting?  We know that the scroll had been kept by Israel. 

Regards,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2015, 04:52:16 pm »
As'salamu Alaikum dear brother Idris,

Interesting find, akhi.  It seems that there might be a modification done to the scroll?  Is that what you're suggesting?  We know that the scroll had been kept by Israel. 

Regards,
Osama Abdallah

Salam Aleykom,

yes brother, that's what I'am suggesting. The Great Isaiah Scroll for over forty years was under lock and key, deep underground in Jerusalem. In 2008, for the 60th anniversary of the Dead Sea Scrolls discovery, the Israel Antiquities Authority displayed the scroll. Why after 40 years ?? The Nag Hammadi Library – which contains much larger volume of documents than DSS of Qumran – was discovered in 1947. The Nag Hammadi Library within less than 3 years was completely translated and published into the world unlike the Dead Sea Scrolls, over 40 years have passed since they were discovered, and they have yet not fully disclosed to the scholars (I've heard somewhere about 9 scroll that are still unopened!). There have been major complains made by Christian scholars from universities all of the world that the Israeli government in agreement with the Vatican Church did not allowed scholars to examine those scrolls (from some youtube video)! Why ? The answer is because they were afraid that some of those scrolls copies might contain the name of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) which would be a very dangerous news. Certainly, it's not in their business to show his description (after they silenced his advent for centuries). The qoutation below in arabic (I've posted before) is very interesting and in my eyes is a precious testimony proving that the Israeli government hiding the true Isaiah scroll from the world:


جاء في صحيفة" المسلمون" الشهيرة عدد 1229 الصفحة الخامسة بتاريخ الاثنين 1 ربيع الأول 1412 هـ الموافق ل 9 سبتمبر (أيلول) 1991 م، تحت عنوان" الدكتور محمد معروف الدواليبي- الذي كان عضوا في الحوار- يروي قصة الحوار بين الإسلام والمسيحية، كيف بدأ وعلام انتهى"- ونحن ننقل ما في هذه الصحيفة من كتاب د. شوقي أبو خليل" الحوار دائما.." ص 11. (دار الفكر) مع بعض التصرف- أنّه قد عثر في مغاور قمران شمالي البحر الميت على مجموعة من المخطوطات، نجد بينها سفر إشعياء الصحيح بكامله، في حين أنّ المنشور في العهد القديم هو جزء منه.
وفي سفر إشعياء المكتشف جاء حرفيا: " بعد المسيح يأتي نبيّ عربي من بلاد فاران- بلاد إسماعيل- وعلى اليهود أن يتّبعوه، وعلامته أنّه إن نجا من القتل، فإنه النبي المنتظر، لأنّه يفلت من السيف المسلول على رقبته، ويعود إليها بعد ذلك بعشرة آلاف قدّيس".
لقد أصدر البابا بولس السادس سنة 1965 م وثيقة هامة، كانت بمثابة اعتراف رسمي نصراني بالدين الإسلامي، ولأول مرّة، جاء فيها: " إنّ كلّ من آمن بعد اليوم بالله الخالق السموات والأرض، وربّ إبراهيم وموسى، فهو ناج عند الله، وداخل في سلامه، وفي مقدّمتهم المسلمون".
وبدعوة رسميّة سافر وفد إسلامي إلى الفاتيكان، واجتمع بالكاردينال بيمونللي وزير الدولة في حكومة الفاتيكان فيما يتعلّق بالعلاقات بين الإسلام والنصرانية، وبدأ الحوار على الرغم من طلب السفير" الإسرائيلي" في روما وقف الحوار، وبعد انتهاء اللقاءات المتعددة بين عدد من العلماء المسلمين وكبار مسؤولي الفاتيكان، وقف

Notice from the text: "...have been found in the Qumran caves in the north of the Dead Sea, a collection of old manuscripts, among them we find the true scroll containing the whole of Isaiah, while that given in the present Old Testament is only a small part of it."

Also a very interesting info gives Dr. Fred Miller, a Christian scholar who discovered some controversial editorial additions to Isaiah scroll of the Qumran:

In many editorial markings (added after the scroll was enscribed) and altered letters, there are numerals, and masoretic punctuation, and masoretic vowel marks and red ink marks that are controversial because they are anacronistic, if a date of storing the scroll is given as corresponding with the end of the Essene community to whom they originally belonged. Most of these markings are more consistant with the Middle Ages than with the Macabbean or Hasmonean period to which the scrolls have been ascribed

See in detail: http://www.moellerhaus.com/Controversy/Controversy.htm

What do you think now ? Could really this Isaiah scroll comes from 200 years B.C. without clear mentions of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)? It is obvious that this so called-Isaiah Scroll was tempered with! And why Vatican always has something to do with the Israeli governement ? It seems they work together.


Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2015, 04:57:58 pm »

I will also put insha'Allah some another photos showing strange additions to the text ! I've included my objections to it.

Salam

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2015, 05:22:56 pm »
Great find, dear brother Idris!  Keep up the great work and research.  May Allah Almighty bless you, akhi.  Ameen. 

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2016, 08:05:20 pm »
As-Salam Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketu,

brothers I think I have found something which clearly shows that the Isaiah Scroll (or the scaned photos) was indeed manipulated ! I will insha'Allah presents here my findings and you will judge for yourself

Take care,
Ahmed

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2016, 01:07:54 am »
As-Salam Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketu,

brothers I think I have found something which clearly shows that the Isaiah Scroll (or the scaned photos) was indeed manipulated ! I will insha'Allah presents here my findings and you will judge for yourself

Take care,
Ahmed

Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Idris,

May Allah Almighty bless you for your efforts, akhi.  Keep up the great work.  I look forward to your findings, insha'Allah.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2016, 09:22:39 pm »
As-Salamu Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

as I have promised I will post some interesting findings in regards to the manipulation of Isaiah scroll known as 1QIsa-a.
I was able to detect some alterations which are really difficult to observe because they are too small! It reaquire a sharp eyes to see those differences. Alhamdulillah, it is Allah Almighty let me to discover this things.

In Isaiah 42:20 we find a term בראה (bera’ah) located in Column XXXIV, line 26, as 1st word. Notice in the photo below how is written the letter ה (he) which was underlined in red:



+zoom in order to close-up the word:



http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah

But what is weird here is that in Dr. Miller’s website the letter ה (he) from the same word doesn’t appear to have any tail on the inside! See the photo below:



+zoom in order to close-up the word:




http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-34.htm

However, in Isaiah scroll - from the Israeli Antiquities Authority website [http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah] – as you remember the letter ה (he) has a small visible tail inside (refer to the first two pictures included in the beginning).

In Isaiah 32:6, we find a word ידבר (yadbar) located in Column XXVI, line 14, as 6th word.



+zoom in order to close-up the word > on the right with inversion:

   

But, in Dr. Miller’s website ד (dalet) from the same word appears to have a little bit extended and curled tail which cannot be observed in the photographed scroll from the Digital DSS website [http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah]:



+zoom in order to close-up the word (+sharpness) > on the right with inversion:

     

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-26.htm

We know that before Isaiah scroll was scanned and officially published for viewing on the Internet, the scholars first got the pictures from the Israel Museum in Jerusalem to examine the scroll. One of them was Dr. Fred Miller. The question arises: Does someone manipulate photos or scroll between 1948-2008 ? Please refer the video below,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpSy2R9KZdk

Watch all the video or turn it from 19:00 min and listen to what Dr. Robert Eisenman have to say. If the pictures of the so called ‘’James Ossuary’’ that have been published by the Jewish authority were not showing rightly the inscription engraved on it (as Dr. Eisenman states in the above video), it means that they (i.e. the Jews) even trying to corrupt the given pictures so you cannot see all of the details. The second thing is that they fabricated it. That is their strategy. Plan A and Plan B.
In the same way they could do with Isaiah Scroll e.g. they could scanned only those parts which were agreed with the present Old Testament and they mixed up - or compiled - in like one pile. And then, the Israeli Authorities says to the scholars : ’’here, now you can examine the scrolls’’ ! Yeah right, after almost 60 years ! Their removed the most controversial parts about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)! How many times Allah exposed the Jews for hiding the truth about Islam and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) ? Allah revealed in the Quran:

Yusuf Ali Translation:

“Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans”  (Quran 5:82)
How can we trust them ?

Now, personally I have no doubt that someone either manipulated the scanned photos or - even more probably – the Isaiah scroll itself. There is no other way ! If you will analyze carrefully the images from Dr. Miller's website and those published by the Israeli Antiquities Authority you will observe many differences. I will post other of my observations insha'Allah.

Take care,
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:42:23 am by QuranSearchCom »

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2016, 05:07:28 am »
Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Ahmed,

May Allah Almighty bless you for your amazing finds!  Keep up the great research and work, akhi.  I will write a big article on this and give you all of the credit for the images and points, insha'Allah.  Very interesting indeed dear brother, and very clear!  The enemies of GOD would rather worship satan than embrace Islam.

Stay True, dear brother.  May Allah Almighty continue to protect you and bless you, akhi Ahmed.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah (from the USA)

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2016, 08:07:18 am »
Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Ahmed,

May Allah Almighty bless you for your amazing finds!  Keep up the great research and work, akhi.  I will write a big article on this and give you all of the credit for the images and points, insha'Allah.  Very interesting indeed dear brother, and very clear!  The enemies of GOD would rather worship satan than embrace Islam.

Stay True, dear brother.  May Allah Almighty continue to protect you and bless you, akhi Ahmed.  Ameen.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah (from the USA)

As-Salam Aleikum dear brother Osama,

Jazaka Allahu khayran, and may Allah also bless you akhi al'aziz, Ameen. I'am glad that you will write an article based on my findings, it is a good idea, the people must know the truth. I will insha'Allah add more similar findings. Anyone who will find some strange things in Isaiah scrolls (and other MSS from DSS) should post it here.

Take care,
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2016, 07:15:33 pm »
As-Salamu Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

I’ve done some another interesting observation. Alhamdulillah.
 
Comparison of the photo from Dr. Miller website vs the photo from Digital DSS website.

If you go to Column VI of the Isaiah scroll (the last eight lines) you will come acroos a big gap. When you compare the scanned photo from DSS website with the previously taken photo – available in Dr. Miller’s website - you will remark a lack of some elements between them in a specific area! The following photo is from Digital DSS website [http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah]. Observe the red line running through the edge of the scroll:



Now, if you refer to Dr. Miller's website, you will see that his photo of the same Column missing one piece of parchment, see below the traced line in red and the blue arrow pointing this detail:



Compare also the left side of both photos. Their edge shapes are not identical. The above case demonstrates the PHYSICAL violation - or manipulation - of the scroll material !

I will add more findings insha’Allah.

Take care, and Salam
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:43:08 am by QuranSearchCom »

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2016, 03:14:06 pm »
Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Ahmed,

Keep up the great work, akhi!  Your findings are extremely important.  I will Insha'Allah propagate it very aggressively on the website.  I will get to your work this week, Insha'Allah.

Take care, dear brother,
Osama Abdallah

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2016, 05:58:28 pm »
Wa Alaikum As'salam Wa Rahmatu Allah Wa Barakatuh dear brother Ahmed,

Keep up the great work, akhi!  Your findings are extremely important.  I will Insha'Allah propagate it very aggressively on the website.  I will get to your work this week, Insha'Allah.

Take care, dear brother,
Osama Abdallah

As-Salamu Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

Well, that’s what I’am doing akhi :) When you will get to my work, add your own comments to it, you can formulate my text in your own way if you wish but do not modify of course the sense of the context.

Here is another nice finding which looks like a correcting of some letters by the new ink addition.

Isaiah 38:11
Column XXXII, line 3, 9th word = עם (im) as it is marked in red eclipse pointed by an arrow:



However, when we will refer to the black & white photos from Dr. Miller’s website, we will able to see that the very same word is actually blurred (+contrast and +sharpness was necessary to get a clearer view of an individual letters):



http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qum-32.htm

Such a kind of defects only indicates that the Isaiah Scroll was somehow manipulated (indeed in a very smart way), and thank's to Dr. Miller's photos which helps to identify the alterations that have been done to the scroll. More observation will be seen insha'Allah.

Take care, and Salam
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:43:58 am by QuranSearchCom »

Offline Idris

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Re: Is something wrong with the Great Isaiah Scroll ?
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2016, 10:19:15 am »
As-Salamu Aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa baraketuh,

Isaiah 9:6
Column VIII, line 26, 1 st word = במשפט (bemishpat)

See the first three letters (from the right), you can clearly read them as ב (bet), מ (mem), ש (shin). I marked them with yellow dashes line in the image below:



+zoom in order to close-up



If you look now at the black & white photo from Dr. Miller’s website you will see that the first three letters of the same word are blurred, and you cannot read them ! Refer to the two photos below:



+zoom in order to close-up



Conclusion ?
It is obvious that after the publication of black & white photos - before digitally scanned photos - they erased these three letters: ב (bet), מ (mem), ש (shin) and then someone wrote them again! In the same way they erased ח (chet) and ד (dalet) from the original word אחמד (ahmad) in Isaiah 42:1 and wrote אתמך (etmak/atmak) so that you can’t argue that it is a proper name. Who the hell gave them the right to do so ? And, they're shares this stupid video in which a Jew named Adolfo Roitman trying make us believe that the published Isaiah Scroll is the authentic one by saying “take a look…this is the real Isaiah scroll. It has 2000 years!” Come on, doesn’t that sound suspicious for you ? They intentionally say in such way to make sure that those who are watching this video will pay attention especially to these particular words i.e. “take a look…this is the real Isaiah scroll. It has 2000 years!”

http://dss.collections.imj.org.il/isaiah_video

More findings are coming insha'Allah.

Take care, and Salam
Ahmed (Poland, Warsaw)

« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 09:44:57 am by QuranSearchCom »