Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - AhmadFarooq

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... 21
106
Even if Osama Abdullah's work was completely derived from Rashad Khalifa's work, it is a fallacious argument to just say that because the research is tainted by Rashad Khalifa's name, it automatically should be rejected. From a scholarly point-of-view, each and every point should be individually analysed and critiqued.

If the same argument is applied on the individual who used such a fallacious argument, then the article on scribd.com that was linked to - which was apparently supposed to debunk Osama Abdullah - that article is also referenced at faithfreedom.org. By the same line of reasoning, this article too should be automatically rejected without giving it a single read.

107
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Osama Abdallah Vs Usama DakDok
« on: September 19, 2016, 05:23:33 AM »
... but even then, you should not say that "If this happens, I will apostasies". As that in itself is apostasy.

Why exactly is that apostasy? When the Holy Prophet was ordered by Allah to say,

Quote
But when the truth came to them from Us, they said, "Why was he not given like that which was given to Moses?" Did they not disbelieve in that which was given to Moses before? They said, "[They are but] two works of magic supporting each other, and indeed we are, in both, disbelievers."
Say, "Then bring a scripture from Allah which is more guiding than either of them that I may follow it, if you should be truthful."
(Qur'an, Surah Al-Qasas(28):48-49)

108
Quote
I don't think that their is a contradiction between science and Islam, but they might appear later on

For you to even say that, is potentially blasphemy, because then you are saying, that scientific facts, are contradicting Islam. So are you saying that, Allah (SWT) does not know how he has designed his creation?!?!?? Are you saying, that Allah (SWT)'s guidance, is wrong?!?!??!?!?? ?Repent to Allah Brother Abdullah.

Abdullah Almadi was talking about scientific concepts and not scientific facts. In a way, it can argued that there is no such thing as a scientific "fact" because every concept has the potential to change with time and new information. This is the point of view from which Abdullah Almadi was talking about.

Regrading the ban, while Abdullah Almadi's arguments can be argued to be trite and oft-repeated, but one thing that should be mentioned is that the banned individual was told not to worry about being banned and additionally that he wouldn't be insulted either. There are probably going to be responses to this paragraph, but I should mention that I don't really care enough for this issue and probably will not respond (which should also help to bury the issue here instead of carrying it forward).

109
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Osama Abdallah Vs Usama DakDok
« on: September 18, 2016, 01:06:38 PM »
Wouldn't "Ziyad Chat" work for the chat?

110
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Time for some Change?
« on: September 18, 2016, 01:05:10 PM »
If you want a website design like Wikipedia's, I personally have experience with the software and can set it up. A significant portion of the setup work for open source software like these depends on the website hosting service used. Unfortunately, the hosting service that is presently used here does not have very good reviews, so I cannot say for certain how long it will take to set it up. In any case I am willing to help.

The website can be set up so that only Osama Abdullah can make edits.
The main page can have all the different categories (9/11, rebuttals, miracles etc.)
All the articles here  can be transferred there, and it should also be much easier to make any new changes to the articles.

111
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Time for some Change?
« on: September 18, 2016, 10:51:54 AM »
How about giving a new theme for this forum a try?

The green versions for these particular themes seem nice enough:
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2860
http://custom.simplemachines.org/themes/index.php?lemma=2834

Instructions for installing a new theme: http://wiki.simplemachines.org/smf/How_do_I_install_a_theme

As someone who has personal experience with open source software, a backup will definitely have to be made before trying any thing new.

112
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Apostasy
« on: September 18, 2016, 08:41:35 AM »
Some thoughts on the article:

The article is written by members of the Ahmadiyya community, which makes it likely to be outright rejected by many Muslims, although such an action would be an obvious fallacy.

Quote
"The concept has therefore arisen from the conduct and policies of the post-Khalifat-i-Rashida1 Muslim governments of Baghdad."

It can be argued that this is untrue because history books detail the punishment to have been meted out during the times of the Rashiddun Khalifas too. However, those are only historical narratives and not hadiths which go through an exhaustive authentication process and therefore can not be used as basis for Islamic Shariah.

Quote
"... the use of force for the spread of its ideology"

Although, this became a common practical implementation of this punishment, Muslims who are proponents of the punishment definitely do not see this as a method of forcing their ideology on others. They argue that the individual of his/her own free will chose Islam (and with it all of its laws), no one forced them into accepting the religion.

As Surah Tauba is mentioned in the article, for information purposes I should also mention that some critics of the capital punishment for simple apostasy, argue that the people who were killed for changing their religion from Islam were on the basis of the fifth verse of this Surah. Here, Muslims, after the passage of four months, are ordered to fight the idolaters who either still remain polytheist or have not vacated a specific geographical location (probably the area of Hijaz). Some of them probably left while others converted to Islam. From these particular set of converts, if someone later apostatised, for them was ascribed the capital punishment as that punishment had already been defined for them and had been stopped only because of their conversion.

Regarding a woman's apostasy, in classical Islamic fiqh only the Hanafi school of thought holds that women cannot be killed (although they still can be imprisoned for an indefinite time until they "repent"). The other three schools of thought don't have any such restriction. Additionally, according to some jurists, also in cases where apostate women have been involved in active violent rebellion, they can be killed.

Quote
"It should be remembered that these traditions were compiled some three to four centuries after the advent of Islam..."

This is pretty much false or at-least misleading. The final compilation and authentication process can be argued to have been completed about three centuries after the Prophet's death, but the first writing down of the traditions happened much before. From what I have read, we even have extant manuscripts of haidth books dating from the end of first century Hijra. Additionally, the authentication (and therefore compiling) process is always an ongoing process, the latest, if I'm not mistaken, was Sheikh Albani's performed just a few decades ago.

Quote
"There are no two opinions regarding the accepted fact that whenever any so-called tradition attributed to the Holy Prophet of Islamsa contradicts any clear injunction of the Holy Quran, such a tradition is rejected as false and is not accepted as the word of the Holy Prophetsa."

As much as most Muslims would like to believe, this is not an "accepted fact". In early Muslim history, there were found to be apparent contradictions between what the Qur'an said and what was reported about the Prophet's actions (i.e. hadiths). When it came to widely accepted hadiths, a reconciliation was needed, which came in the form of the concept of abrogation of Qur'anic commandments by actions attributed to the Prophet in hadiths. This is pretty much the case for the issue of stoning of adulterers.
Why was Maulana Maududi specifically criticised? Some can argue against the article as being slightly non-objective because of this.

Most other things in the article, I agree with, found to be irrelevant or don't know enough to comment upon. One interesting question that I should add is the odd nature of the fact that the Ikramah hadith accepted by so many scholars was apparently not accepted by Imam Muslim.

For a more thorough investigation of the relevant hadiths in this regard, I would recommend Dr. Ahmad Shafaat's THE PUNISHMENT OF APOSTASY IN ISLAM, Part II: An Examination of the Ahadith on the Subject.

113
One relevant thing I should mention, according to recent statistics Chinese people are turning towards Christianity (i.e. towards one concept of God) and China is, I suppose, definitely not a poor people's country.

114
Just to correct one thing, regardless of the debate on what Shaq-al-Qamar actually means, the Qur'an does not say that Prophet Muhammad himself split (or whatever happened to) the moon.

115
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Apostasy
« on: September 16, 2016, 10:09:04 AM »
Just to clear up any misunderstandings, my posts have nothing to do personally with Abdullah Almadi (keeping a healthy distance from this Abdullah vs. Osama "discourse").

I should also mention that probably most notable scholars also don't absolutely believe that the Hadith books are 100% authentic (and definitely not Tabari and Ahmad). A point of significant importance is that of context. The interesting thing with the "kill whoever changes his religion" narration is that we have no context. Additionally, there are other very similar narrations which happen to interchange the crime of simple apostasy with the crime of apostasy with the addition of fighting God and His Messenger, implying that the context of the punishment included the condition of fighting for the "proscribed" punishment as-well.

117
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: Apostasy
« on: September 15, 2016, 05:44:13 AM »
A follow-up to the comment on www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php/topic,2270.msg10134.html#msg10134:

The minority scholars who held difference of opinion on the matter of apostasy punishment are referenced at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam#Other_views_on_punishment

Some of the scholars mentioned in the article (like Ibrahim al-Nakha‘i (d. 95), a teacher of Imam Abu Hanifah and hadith expert Sufyan al-Thawri (d. 161)) I know, from other sources, to have definitely held the minority opinion, while others like (Ibn Taymiyyah) are surely to be incorrectly represented here.

Once again the opinion majority of scholars have had, is not the litmus test for what Islam actually is. One example of the complicated nature of fiqh is the case of allowing women to attend congregational prayers, where majority of scholars have prohibited this even in the presence of clearly and directly opposing sayings of the Prophet (Sahih al-Bukhari 900, Sahih Muslim 442 (a-h), Sunan Abi Dawud 565, Sunan Abi Dawud 566, Sunan Abi Dawud 567, Sunan Ibn Majah Vol. 1, Book 1, Hadith 16). Not suggesting the scholars didn't have justified reasons for the prohibitions (whatever they may have been), just a comment on the complexities of the issues of fiqh.

- "... also said that their is no evidence that the one who was born a Muslim and leaves Islam shold the be killed however that is wrong since the hadiths regarding apostasy are general to everyone who leaves Islam."

Yes, there isn't much evidence to deny that the superficial meaning of the hadith is talking about everyone who leaves Islam, but the question is why a person, for example, who lived in a non-Muslim environment all his life, whose parents never really taught him Islam, never really got interested in the religion, never spent time learning about it etc. why is such a person regarded as a Muslim? This individual is liable for the capital punishment only because his parents were Muslim and that too by name only. Why is the default state Muslim? Contrast this with the case of a non-Muslim born in a Muslim country, learned deeply about Islam, have in-depth insight to Islamic theology and its evidences etc. and still rejects Islam, but this person is not liable for the death penalty. Where is the logic in this?

Additionally, using the same absolutist general understanding of the hadith, it can similarly be argued that - since Islamic doctrine holds that literally all human beings, when they are born are "Muslim", and the environment is what takes them away from Islam - all non-Muslim adults are, basically, apostates to Islam.

Also, a main point of my argument was the extremely odd case of Abdullah ibn Sa'd ibn AbuSarh, as mentioned in Sunan Abi Dawud 4359 (that is if the narration is indeed reliable in the first place).

118
GENERAL TOPICS | BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS / Re: BATTLE OF KHAIBAR
« on: September 14, 2016, 02:31:25 PM »
Dr. Yasir Qadhi probably mentioned the killing of Kinana (which is likely to be an accurate historical event) and not how Kinana was killed.

Details:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/rebuttal_to_silas_on_kinana.htm
http://thefactsaboutislam.blogspot.com/2014/12/muhammad-and-death-of-kinana-ibn-al-rabi.html

119
Regardless of what Abdullah Almadi's general beliefs are regarding the matter of "scientific notions", in this particular case, if I am not very much mistaken, he only informed of a different interpretation on the matter by quoting the opinion of Ibn Katheer.

As far as I can tell, there was no denying of the original interpretation that is under discussion here. In-fact, by Abdullah Almadi's last sentence: "And the brothers over here demonstrated that the second interpretation is right.", I would infer that he was referring to the original interpretation as the "second interpretation" and claiming it to be correct too.

120
No Germans were involved in the quoted news link.

The link is quoting concerns of the official authorities, pretty much the exact same concerns that you yourself mentioned before. You said Daesh terrorists will come with the Syrian refugees and the European officials should have done more to vet the refugees that were coming in. This is virtually exactly what the US officials are saying.

Aside from the right-wing Republicans, who like most other far-right people live in paranoia of external enemies, the quoted link had no blaming of the "Syrian masses".

Again where is the evidence that the German authorities allowed the refugees to come into their country for the specific purpose of blaming them when some of them were inevitably going to commit crimes.

Pages: 1 ... 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 ... 21

What's new | A-Z | Discuss & Blog | Youtube