Author Topic: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?  (Read 32905 times)

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Offline Isubmit2Allah

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2015, 11:24:26 AM »
You said:
However Words of God written in books or on piece of paper can be altered.

By the statement you made, you have made Allah powerless to preserve His Word that has been written down.

Christians do not believe that God is powerless to protect His Word that has been written down.
There is a difference between men authoring their own texts, and the original God's revealed text. Anybody can write a few verses down, and say that it was from God. The same with the Bible.

Offline AhmadFarooq

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2015, 11:25:42 AM »
Unfortunately I can't say I've got much knowledge about Christian scripture. Regarding its preservation most of what I know is derived from the debate of well-known Christian scripture and textual scholar Dr. Bart Ehrman.

"Bart Ehrman & Daniel Wallace Debate Original NT Lost"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyABBZe5o68

According to Bart Ehrman:
No complete manuscripts of the Bible from the first, second and third centuries exist.
From early second century only 1 manuscript of the Bible, which has a few verses written on it, has survived.
5,500 manuscripts of the Bible survive, of which 94 % are from the 9th century.

In short what Daniel Wallace said (similar to what you are affirming here) was that due to the vast number of manuscripts that are present and the hundreds of thousands of variances (most are insignificant) in them is a proof that we can reach the original New Testament text.

However, Bart Ehrman is skeptical of this concept or even convinced against it. He seems to believe that the probability of the loss of the original New Testament text is very high by giving an example that it would have taken only a single inaccurate or malicious copier of the New Testament in the first century to corrupt all the manuscripts that are presently available.

I completely agree that hundreds of thousands of the differences in the manuscripts are mostly spelling mistakes and such, as Bart Ehrman admits but according to him some of these differences are significant enough to question core Christian concepts.

In another debate that I was once listening to, the example of 1 John 5:7-8 was given. According to my limited knowledge, this was the verse which most explicitly confirmed trinity in the King James version of the Bible; but, according to new information obtained, in the 1980s its words had to be changed and the present version doesn't appear to be affirming trinity.

It is possible that the present version of the Bible might be the accurate one, I say this because of the "Christian Vs. Muslim" debates that I've listened to, both debaters use the Bible as a source of information. Christians interpret a particular verse a certain way, Muslims another, which is something Muslims apparently have common with nontrinitarian sects of Christianity.

However, as Bart Ehrman argues there is no way of knowing that. There is a reason that textual criticism is still going on, because there is still some work left. Maybe in the future we will be able to obtain the original words of the Bible and even prove that but presently (according to Bart Ehrman) we cannot be sure.

Regards.

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2015, 12:31:05 PM »

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2015, 05:55:28 AM »

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2015, 06:26:57 AM »

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2015, 08:04:07 AM »
When you mention original document, as in the case of Greek books. The so called original Greek documents were not made during the time of prophet Jesus (pbuh). But after the claim by Paul that he met Jesus in the desert. And so the narrations from the Hellenistic followers were written down. But there were too many Greek narrations that only in 4th century, they were able to select which narrations and letters to be deemed cannon/inspired.

As for Israelite scriptures, they were written during the time of revelations sent down from God to the prophets.

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2015, 05:31:29 PM »
As'salamu Alaikum Muslim brothers and sisters and everyone else,

Did you know that MUSLIMS was the early believers' title according to the Aramaic sources?

Also, did you know that Greek wasn't even the first language in Palestine nor in Northern Arabia?

Also, did you know that there is a great deal of evidence that Arabic manuscripts among the Jews did exist in Arabia, and the Jews burnt them after they were kicked out by the Muslims from the Holy Lands?

Also, did you know that 7 Roman emperors burnt most of the early Christians' writings, and almost all of the ones written in the Middle East?

Visit this link to see detailed discussion about this at:

www.answering-christianity.com/muslims_and_arabic_language_during_jesus_times.htm

I will make the article much neater.  But this is a detailed debbate that I had with Christians over these topics.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2015, 08:54:08 AM »
As'salamu Alaikum Muslim brothers and sisters and everyone else,

Did you know that MUSLIMS was the early believers' title according to the Aramaic sources?

Also, did you know that Greek wasn't even the first language in Palestine nor in Northern Arabia?

Also, did you know that there is a great deal of evidence that Arabic manuscripts among the Jews did exist in Arabia, and the Jews burnt them after they were kicked out by the Muslims from the Holy Lands?

Also, did you know that 7 Roman emperors burnt most of the early Christians' writings, and almost all of the ones written in the Middle East?

Visit this link to see detailed discussion about this at:

www.answering-christianity.com/muslims_and_arabic_language_during_jesus_times.htm

I will make the article much neater.  But this is a detailed debbate that I had with Christians over these topics.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Thank God they did not burn them all!

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2015, 09:58:34 AM »
Thank God they did not burn them all!

But when we find in the current canonized Bible references about the Prophet of Arabia (the Servant who will come from Arabia WITH THE NEW COVENANT) in both the OT and NT, then I have no reason to doubt Islam, my brother thetruthseeker.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

Welcome to the board.  May Allah Almighty open your heart to Islam.  Ameen.  Please always feel free to post all of your thoughts and concerns here.  We would love to clarify any confusion or concern that you may have.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2015, 12:37:36 PM »
Thank God they did not burn them all!

But when we find in the current canonized Bible references about the Prophet of Arabia (the Servant who will come from Arabia WITH THE NEW COVENANT) in both the OT and NT, then I have no reason to doubt Islam, my brother thetruthseeker.  Please visit:

www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

Welcome to the board.  May Allah Almighty open your heart to Islam.  Ameen.  Please always feel free to post all of your thoughts and concerns here.  We would love to clarify any confusion or concern that you may have.

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

May I have those references please? Just list the verses that indicate this. Thanks!

Offline QuranSearchCom

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2015, 01:32:35 PM »
The passages are too many and too big to post here.  Please visit the following links, which are linked in the one that I already gave above:

www.answering-christianity.com/Debates%20Database%20Doc%20File.doc
www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm
  (Click on the PPT files that are about Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)

www.answering-christianity.com/sons_of_god_in_bible_and_quran_debate.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm


Also visit the following debate:
www.answering-christianity.com/does_muhammad_exist_in_the_bible_june_16_2013.wmv

And again, visit the main link:
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

And for the reader also, visit the following link to see the Glorious Quran's Overwhelming and Stunning Scientific Miracles:
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

Offline thetruthseeker

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Re: Why does the Quran tell Christians/Jews to judge by the Gospel/Torah?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2015, 03:01:47 PM »
The passages are too many and too big to post here.  Please visit the following links, which are linked in the one that I already gave above:

www.answering-christianity.com/Debates%20Database%20Doc%20File.doc
www.answering-christianity.com/debate_templates.htm
  (Click on the PPT files that are about Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him)

www.answering-christianity.com/sons_of_god_in_bible_and_quran_debate.htm
www.answering-christianity.com/convert_christians.htm


Also visit the following debate:
www.answering-christianity.com/does_muhammad_exist_in_the_bible_june_16_2013.wmv

And again, visit the main link:
www.answering-christianity.com/predict.htm

And for the reader also, visit the following link to see the Glorious Quran's Overwhelming and Stunning Scientific Miracles:
www.answering-christianity.com/ac20.htm#links

Take care,
Osama Abdallah

No problem. How about you give me a 3 that I can look up. That shouldn't take too long.

Also, I noticed you quote Matthew 24, but that has already been fulfilled.

 

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